church

[lioncub]

Ga 1:17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.

We notice that Paul returned again into Damascus. We have no idea from the text how long Paul spent in Arabia.

Ga 1:18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.

The text mentions after three years, Paul went up to Jerusalem. How long did Paul spend in Arabia and how long in Damascus ? The text doesn't say.

In relation to Paul spending considerable time in prison. Did Paul have an option ? Are any of us locked up in a prison ? This reminds me of the 'thief on the cross' excuse which some give for not being baptised in water and receiving the Holy Spirit.

 

[Plinshree]

do you think it is possible to be a good and hly christian if you do not attend church regularly.timnorman

Yes, I do. You see there is a sad and little publicized fact that a lot of Christians are not aware of: the amount of people who have been spiritually abused or else downright abused at the hands of 'christians' in a church setting. These people are not about to rush back to a church setting anytime soon for any reason.

The TRUE stories I could tell you, not only of my own experiences, but the experiences of so many of the unchurched, would blow your mind.

do you people go to church regularly?timnorman

No, I do not. I am unable to darken the doorstep of any church. My own experiences at the hands of fellow christians brings on a panic reaction even when I do not know a soul in that particular church.

do you think it is our duties as christians to go to church regularly?timnorman

I think people should go if they can.

Even though a lot of people do find fulfillment in online churches, I suggest that they actually go to a physical building with a headship one can hold accountable.

Online churches are hotbeds of people who have warped views running amok and causing damage to people and the leaders of these 'churches' are often too self obsessed and into building their ministries to care.

do you think you can have a prosperous christian attitude without going to church?timnorman

Yes. This is the age of the internet. There are tons of resources out there in the form of videos, sermons, podcasts, that can serve as spiritual feed.

 

[Dreamer]

abuse from church

I was re-reading this thread that was started from years ago and saw that members are posting in it again. It is a very interesting subject! Some of my friends here in my town have stopped attending any church. They post things on facebook constantly and mock the church, calling it merely a "building" and make fun of people that would even bother to step inside of one. They lump all church attenders into one group and say that all church attenders have a religious spirit. They say I have a religious spirit too, and I'm not one for religion. I don't even like the word religion.

I love Jesus. He's my Lord and my Savior. So I go to church with like-minded people.

I was spiritually abused by a church in 2010 and January, Feb and March of this year. Six months ago, I wasted no time finding another church once God showed me that the matter was hurting our family spiritually. God showed me the place quickly and I was amazed at the wonderful preaching, fellowship, and worship at First Assembly Milan. The thing is, I'm not bitter against that last church, because it was only 2 or 3 people, a youth pastor and a couple of others, that did wrong, and God is taking care of it. I still have friends from that church and I fellowship with them in their homes.

I don't think that being abused by church members or even church staff is an excuse to stop attending church. I need church. Bear one another's burdens. Confess your sins to one another. How do we do that if we do not fellowship with one another and get to know one another, studying the Word, praying together, just spending quality time together? It's impossible.

So, is it possible to be a Christian and live a godly life and not go to church anywhere? Sure, it's possible. But why would anyone want to permanently skip church? To do that is missing lots of blessings, and YOU will not be able to be a blessing to so many others.

Abuse happens. In families, on the job, and even in churches. Abuse is never God's will.

God has had many things to teach me at every church I was ever a member of. I still have friends from back when I went to First Baptist (the church before the last) and it would be so sad if I had never met them!

The Lord is leading me in the direction of starting a non-profit ministry in this town...He started leading me in this 5 years ago, and it is now coming to be. Because I've been an active member of so many churches (4 wonderful ones in this town) through the years, I know a lot of wonderful pastors and Christians and when the shelter/education center comes together, I'll be able to work with people that I already know and trust. God will make this community and county a better place, and He will use churches to do it!!!

It's always best not to try and be a lone ranger. There is danger in being a ranger. So don't be a stranger. Find a church where they worship the resurrected Christ, not merely the little baby in the manger.

Now you know why I never became a poet. At least I tried to get my point across.

 

[Greenfrog]

seems I was a tad late with my post. probably took me so long to type it by the time I posted
I found it didn't apply any more.

 

[Plinshree]

I was spiritually abused by a church in 2010 and January, Feb and March of this year. Six months ago, I wasted no time finding another church once God showed me that the matter was hurting our family spiritually. God showed me the place quickly and I was amazed at the wonderful preaching, fellowship, and worship at First Assembly Milan. The thing is, I'm not bitter against that last church, because it was only 2 or 3 people, a youth pastor and a couple of others, that did wrong, and God is taking care of it. I still have friends from that church and I fellowship with them in their homes.

I totally understand what you are speaking of. I applaud you for having the strength to move on.

However, not everyone's abuse experience is the same.

My 'pastor' stood in the pulpit and told us that, if a woman was raped, it was her fault. Because women were temptresses from the Garden of Eden.
As a result a woman from my church was raped by another church member and came under threat by church leadership should she 'run to the authorities' to report it.
That woman took her own life. The leadership said that was God's vengeance at work.

This is just one of the things I've experienced 'in church'. I wish I could say this was an isolated thing but. I mean the above account fairly drips with drama, right? I'm sad to say that, in addition to my own experiences, I've heard stories from people about their own church experiences that would break your heart.

There are those individuals that use these types of things as fuel to HATE church and HATE anyone who has the audacity to self identify as Christians. I was that person just 4 months ago.However, most people really do want to heal and move on.

The sister of the woman I spoke of? It took her 4 years of working through it after her sister committed suicide. 4.years. But you know what? She is now part of a church where she is happy, in ministry, and doing very well.

I don't think that being abused by church members or even church staff is an excuse to stop attending church.

When I saw that you actually wrote and posted those words I just boggled.
I know you mean well, but:

It's not up to you to pass judgement on people like that.

When abuse occurs in any setting the person who was subject to that abuse is not going to be hot to return to the setting in which the violation occurred. The above quoted statement smacks of victim blaming.

Not wanting to subject oneself to more abuse is a legitimate 'excuse' to avoid attending church.

Abuse happens. In families, on the job, and even in churches. Abuse is never God's will.

I don't care. It's never right for people to be victimized in a church setting by 'christians.' It's prevalence doesn't excuse it.

Murder happens. In families, on the job,and even in churches. It's not God's' will but I doubt people would have the same 'deal with it attitude' about murder.

It's this attitude that actually makes it easier for people in our churches to get away with treating people like dirt.

Guess what happens when people are abused in churches? The murder of trust.Potentially the murder of what God wanted to do in that person's life depending on what happens to that person as a result of the incidents in question.

So yes, people can be found in churches, people are not infallible and do stupid things to one another, things happen, and people avoid church as a result. This is a fact of life.
We need to be praying for everyone involved in such situations. Not smacking people with a huge God-stick and telling them to get their wussy little behinds to church.

It's called compassion. You want our churches packed out? You want revival? Then we all need to learn us some. (EVEN ME)

:::here's hoping I don't get banned::::::

 

[Dreamer]

Of course you won't be banned, Plinshree. It's true that abuse is wrong and it is even more wrong coming from church staff or church members, because it's supposed to be a safe place. Good point.

And the instance of the woman's rape and her suicide is much more tragic than what I experienced. It's unthinkable. That church and so-called "pastor" needs to be shut down.

 

[farout]

Church or no church.

There is no such thing as a "Lone Ranger Christian" Even the Lone Ranger had Tonto! There are many reasons Hebrews 10:25 says we are not to neglect the assembling togeter. Church is a place to WORSHIP, to involve yourself and the spiritual gift you have. Church helps you grow, learn from the preaching of the Word of God. Fellowship is vital for Christian encouragement. Where do you give your offerings?

If church is not inportant, they why did Jesus Christ die for the Bride of Christ, the Church? (meaning believers) We do not stand alone in heaven with the Lord.

There is usually a deeper reason people avoid church. I encourage you to ask the Lord to show you a body of believers for you to visit. If anyone asks you for money and you are not a member,unless it's a regular offering, do not give they anything, God can do what He wants with out it untile you find a church home. Blessings.

 

[jiggyfly]

There is no such thing as a "Lone Ranger Christian" Even the Lone Ranger had Tonto! There are many reasons Hebrews 10:25 says we are not to neglect the assembling togeter. Church is a place to WORSHIP, to involve yourself and the spiritual gift you have. Church helps you grow, learn from the preaching of the Word of God. Fellowship is vital for Christian encouragement. Where do you give your offerings?

Can't you give directly to the needy?
Do you only worship God when your at your assembly?

If church is not inportant, they why did Jesus Christ die for the Bride of Christ, the Church? (meaning believers) We do not stand alone in heaven with the Lord.

Isn't the body of Christ a spiritual entity?

Don't you think it is possible to fellowship outside the confines of religious liturgy?

There is usually a deeper reason people avoid church. I encourage you to ask the Lord to show you a body of believers for you to visit. If anyone asks you for money and you are not a member,unless it's a regular offering, do not give they anything, God can do what He wants with out it untile you find a church home. Blessings.

What do you think is the deeper reason?

Isn't the church and the body of Christ supposed to be the same entity?

 

[Beans]

There is no such thing as a "Lone Ranger Christian" Even the Lone Ranger had Tonto! There are many reasons Hebrews 10:25 says we are not to neglect the assembling togeter. Church is a place to WORSHIP, to involve yourself and the spiritual gift you have. Church helps you grow, learn from the preaching of the Word of God. Fellowship is vital for Christian encouragement. Where do you give your offerings?

If church is not inportant, they why did Jesus Christ die for the Bride of Christ, the Church? (meaning believers) We do not stand alone in heaven with the Lord.

There is usually a deeper reason people avoid church. I encourage you to ask the Lord to show you a body of believers for you to visit. If anyone asks you for money and you are not a member,unless it's a regular offering, do not give they anything, God can do what He wants with out it untile you find a church home. Blessings.

It seems to me that many people have a superstitious attitude towards "going to church" (i.e. going to a building), when (as Jiggyfly pointed out) the body of Christ is a SPIRITUAL entity. How do you give a tithe to a spiritual entity? Ask the holy spirit to guide you.

When it comes to Hebrews 10:25, I always like to refer to Act 11:26, to make the point that "assembling together" may have meant something more than just going to church on Sunday to the early believers. They actually lived together and shared with each other(Acts 2:44-47) in a way that makes our modern churches look like cheap counterfeits.

 

[Brighthouse]

Dreamer could not be more correct!! What the Church means to me,is it gives us each balance. Sometimes what we believe God is saying, can be further helped by others in the Lord who can also confirm this,or perhaps give us better insight, as to our situation.Hebrews 10:25 NOT forsaking our own assembling together as is the habit of some,as Dreamer said (Lone Rangers!) but encouraging one another;and all the more as YOU see the day drawing near. Truth can not only be heard,but seen as well.For real truth is LOVE one for another. amen.