Climate Change (Global Warming): Real or Hoax?

[Chad]

What do you think of the global warming agenda (aka climate change)? Seems like there's generally just 2 sides to this subject. Those who push that there is a global warming and those who think it's all man-made, a hoax. What are your thoughts?

Below excerpt from: How should a Christian view climate change?

It is interesting to note how the phrase "climate change" is replacing "global warming" as the catch phrase of environmentalism. Some scientists/climatologists are certain that human activity, primarily greenhouse gas emissions, is impacting the environment. What they are not certain about is precisely what the impact will be. A couple of decades ago, "global cooling" was the fear, with warnings of a new ice age being the primary scare tactic. While most scientists/climatologists today believe that global warming is the primary risk, uncertainty has led to "climate change" being used as a less specific warning. Essentially, the climate change message is this: greenhouse gas emissions are damaging the environment, and, while we are not certain what the effect will be, we know it will be bad.

Climatologists, ecologists, geologists, etc., are unanimous in recognizing that the earth has gone through significant temperature/climate changes in the past. Despite the fact that these climate changes were obviously not caused by human activity, many of these same scientists are convinced that human activity is the primary cause of climate change today. Why? There seem to be three primary motivations.

First, some truly and fully believe the greenhouse gas emissions are causing climate change. They honestly examine the data and come to that conclusion. Second, some hold to the climate change mindset with an almost religious fervor. Many within the environmentalist movement are so obsessed with protecting "Mother Earth" that they will use any argument to accomplish that goal, no matter how biased and unbalanced it is. Third, some promote the climate change mentality for financial gain. Some of the strongest proponents of climate change legislation are those who stand to have the greatest financial gain from "green" laws and technologies. Before the climate change mindset is accepted, it should be recognized that not everyone who promotes climate change is doing so from an informed foundation and pure motives.

How, then, should a Christian view climate change? We should view it skeptically and critically, but at the same time honestly and respectfully. Most importantly, though, Christians should look at climate change biblically. What does the Bible say about climate change? Not much. Likely the closest biblical examples of what could be considered climate change would be the end times disasters prophesied in Revelation 6–18. Yet these prophecies have nothing to do with greenhouse gas emissions; rather, they are the result of the wrath of God, pouring out justice on an increasingly wicked world. Also, a Christian must remember that God is in control and that this world is not our home. God will one day erase this current universe (2 Peter 3:7-12) and replace it with the New Heavens and New Earth (Revelation 21–22). How much effort should be made "saving" a planet that God is eventually going to obliterate and replace with a planet so amazing and wonderful that the current earth pales in comparison?

Is there anything wrong with going green? No, of course not. Is trying to reduce your carbon footprint a good thing? Probably so. Are solar panels, wind mills, and other renewable energy sources worth pursuing? Of course. Are any of these things to be the primary focus of followers of Jesus Christ? Absolutely not! As Christians, our focus should be proclaiming the truth of the gospel, the message that has the power to save souls. Saving the planet is not within our power or responsibility. Climate change may or may not be real, and may or may not be human-caused. What we can know for certain is that God is good and sovereign, and that Planet Earth will be our habitat for as long as God desires it to be. Psalm 46:2-3, "Therefore we will not fear, though the earth give way and the mountains fall into the heart of the sea, though its waters roar and foam and the mountains quake with their surging."

 

[Hekuran]

A few things in response

Climate change is a more accurate description than global warming, as the effects of rising global temperatures are complex. 'Climate change' includes the more frequent and extreme weather events that most of us have experienced over the past decade or so.

Second, if you read the opening chapters of Genesis carefully, you see that God put Adam in the garden to rule over creation. Caring for the planet is an essential part of our God-ordained purpose. And we are failing in that regard now more than ever before.

Caring for creation is not opposed to sharing the good news of the kingdom any more than caring for the poor, protecting the unborn, healing, or working for peace. In God's kingdom, all these things belong together and work together.

 

[Chad]

Caring for the planet is an essential part of our God-ordained purpose. And we are failing in that regard now more than ever before.

True, I agree. People pollute, don't recycle, don't use products wisely.

'Climate change' includes the more frequent and extreme weather events that most of us have experienced over the past decade or so.

But, the Bible warns of increase of natural disasters in the end times, as a sign.

Matthew 24:4-13

 

[Dovegiven]

Revelation 16 describes a very serious change in the environment that happens by angels pouring out vials of God's wrath. 100 pound hailstones, intense heat even when it's hours of darkness, be it night-time or by some heavy cloud.

The environment we experience today was founded post-flood. God declined to offer the idealistic climate Adam and Eve experienced. They didn't experience rain, but just dew. The Flood in Noah's day was enough to form a great ice age that produced massive glaciers that stored up much excess fresh (not saline) water. So now they are melting. Their cause has not been repeated, nor their maintenance sustained, at a time when fresh non-saline water is in short supply world-wide. . Should ice melt? Of course. They ought to at least evaporate. Should there ever have been glaciers? No. They are testimony of the horror of the flood caused by sin. Man is not exercising dominion awarded by God. We could do that if turning back to God.

Many physical factors affect our environment, including effects from outside planet Earth, mostly from the nearest star we call the Sun, which are ruled by the recognized laws of physics created by God. Those natural laws will apply regardless of mankind's desires. Those natural laws hold creation intact. No prayer could change the law of gravity, as no prayer could enable a Christian to fly like a bird to another continent, or even next door, not while living in this flesh body. It might happen if God desires to translate a person elsewhere.

Suppose the sea level rises to drown all. Well, the excess water came from beneath, the "depths" and "fountains", which God opened, and God can cause them to return there, and will do that since promising Noah that flooding will never happen again. Natural law will seek to establish a natural balance, Why not cause excess water in the atmosphere to be expelled to form more comets?

 

[Bendito]

A few things in response

Climate change is a more accurate description than global warming, as the effects of rising global temperatures are complex. 'Climate change' includes the more frequent and extreme weather events that most of us have experienced over the past decade or so.

Second, if you read the opening chapters of Genesis carefully, you see that God put Adam in the garden to rule over creation. Caring for the planet is an essential part of our God-ordained purpose. And we are failing in that regard now more than ever before.

Caring for creation is not opposed to sharing the good news of the kingdom any more than caring for the poor, protecting the unborn, healing, or working for peace. In God's kingdom, all these things belong together and work together.

I believe that Climate change and Global Warming are two differnt things....The climates of the Earth being cyclical while Global warming is simply a lie.... Climate change is normal in the life of our planet. For example...Petrified forests in the north of Canada and Russia. What? In the frozen north there were forests? Yup. And very strong evidence that Antarctica was one lush and green, with an advanced civilization too.
The planet has warmed no more than 1.5 degrees in the last couple hundred years is NOT Global warming...in my opinion.

 

[Dave M]

complete fraud made up to gain more control of the people,

 

[Hekuran]

We are already seeing the effects. I have friends in low-lying nations -- Bangladesh and the Pacific Islands who are facing the loss of their homelands.

The scientific principle of the greenhouse effect is straightforward and universally accepted. The rapid change of global temperatures is very dangerous -- we are unleashing forces we can't predict or control.

In the last ice age, global temperatures were between 4 and 6 °C below preindustrial levels. And the warming took place over thousands of years. If we raise the global temperatures by two or more degrees at ten times that rate, the results could be catastrophic.

California fires, more devastating hurricanes, heatwaves such as Australia has experiences this year.

Let's take responsibility for our actions.

 

[Bendito]

We are already seeing the effects. I have friends in low-lying nations -- Bangladesh and the Pacific Islands who are facing the loss of their homelands.

The scientific principle of the greenhouse effect is straightforward and universally accepted. The rapid change of global temperatures is very dangerous -- we are unleashing forces we can't predict or control.

In the last ice age, global temperatures were between 4 and 6 °C below preindustrial levels. And the warming took place over thousands of years. If we raise the global temperatures by two or more degrees at ten times that rate, the results could be catastrophic.

California fires, more devastating hurricanes, heatwaves such as Australia has experiences this year.

Let's take responsibility for our actions.

That's funny....CO2 levels today are 45 ppm while at the Cretaceous period they were 4000ppm...and in the Paleozoic they were 4500ppm I will repeat....Climate change is normal....Climate scientists are not.

 

[Hekuran]

Don't know where you are getting your information from. CO2 levels are in fact around 400 ppm, not 45. See the chart from nasa

 

[Bendito]

Don't know where you are getting your information from. CO2 levels are in fact around 400 ppm, not 45. See the chart from nasa

Yup...I missed a zero....What I said still stands though

 

[B-A-C]

I wonder if the Bible says there will a lot of people alive when Jesus returns, do we really need to worry about this too much?
Even after the millennial reign, Satan will gather up an army "like the sands of the sea". It sounds like there will be plenty of people around.
One of the judgments in Revelation says the sun will scorch the earth and cause blisters upon people.

I'm not saying we shouldn't be careful, and I'm certainly not saying we shouldn't be responsible for the planet. But with all the end time prophecies
I have a hard time believing we could really destroy the Earth. Yeah I've see the atomic bomb videos, and toxic waste magazines. But I just don't believe
God will let those things happen. Besides, the Revelation judgments are prophesied, to happen, there is nothing we can do to stop them anyway.

Yes CO2 emissions are high right now. We are in the industrial age. The age of automobiles. But It's been high before. Where do you think coal, diamonds,
flourocarbons came from? Where do you think oil itself came from? It's all carbon.

 

[Dovegiven]

That's funny....CO2 levels today are 45 ppm while at the Cretaceous period they were 4000ppm...and in the Paleozoic they were 4500ppm I will repeat....Climate change is normal....Climate scientists are not.

400 ppm today. Old earthers admit the atmospheric CO2 concentration was like it is now many times millions of years ago, as high as 100 times more (4,000 ppm), like you wrote, and dropping to half what it is now many times. I'm a young earther, believing the Bible account of creation, so take those estimates as cyclic over the past 6,000 years. Who caused those cold-hot-cold extreme patterns, how did they change it? I doubt people back then had the capacity to change their climate at all. It's obvious that's entirely a natural cyclic event that happens to be inconvenient to us now. The big money is in the idea that human activity caused the problem this one cycle out of maybe hundreds. A few decades ago the scientists were convinced a major ice age was about to hit.

Looking at the ancient world map of Pangaea, all the continents do fit together like a jig saw puzzle. We have no idea what the climate was in terms of comfort.

As for residents of seashore lands, there are huge threats, like tsunamis, hurricanes, and continental subduction (continuous geological event) that's very prevalent all around the Pacific Rim. Major earthquakes are happening, and all it takes is one centered in the right spot to set off the process of sliding those lands under the sea floor, as is happening slowly already. Those people living in those sea level danger zones should have already been moved inland centuries ago. Half the world population lives on one percent of the total landmass, but folks are drawn to coastal areas where the humidity makes summer temperatures feel hotter.

Accurate weather reporting the past 150 years or so has made the graphs to focus on that small period of time. It was rare for my family to learn of a hurricane or tornado in another state until the newspaper might mention such events. But now the barrage of weather news makes those surely growing more common. There's been about 400 hurricanes in Florida in the past, and the frequency hasn't changed significantly, nor have our strongest in that 150 years or 'modern' times been stronger than older ones.

When graphing a mean temperature over 150 years it isn't fair to use that as a long term pattern. Adding more centuries could have the mean highs much flatter, or dipping negatively on a chart. Many scientists use data from glacier cores that are claimed to be millions of years old, but a model of that can be based on the young earth scale making the present glaciers a result of the world wide Genesis flood.

There's nothing mankind can do about the weather or climate. We still can't stop a tornado or arrange for rain to end a drought, so why focus on stopping the whole atmosphere from changing, which would be hundreds of times more difficult than doing those so far impossible feats? The Church needs to focus on souls, holy living, and seek wisdom from God concerning what can be done to mitigate the problems in each locale. Whatever is done ought to be reasonable and effective, not wasting resources or ruining our lives even more than nature affects us. Adaptation ideas are abounding. Outlawing air conditioners while the temperatures increase would multiply health problems. I work outdoors, know how to dress adequately, and know the value of sweat that cools me down. Folks that have the health should experience that phenomenon and welcome it. When there is no wind I pump up a little bottle that feeds water to a tiny nozzle on my hat that makes a mist that drops the temperature around me as much as 20 degrees.

 

[Hekuran]

400 ppm today. Old earthers admit the atmospheric CO2 concentration was like it is now many times millions of years ago, as high as 100 times more (4,000 ppm), like you wrote, and dropping to half what it is now many times. I'm a young earther, believing the Bible account of creation, so take those estimates as cyclic over the past 6,000 years. Who caused those cold-hot-cold extreme patterns, how did they change it? I doubt people back then had the capacity to change their climate at all. It's obvious that's entirely a natural cyclic event that happens to be inconvenient to us now. The big money is in the idea that human activity caused the problem this one cycle out of maybe hundreds. A few decades ago the scientists were convinced a major ice age was about to hit.

Looking at the ancient world map of Pangaea, all the continents do fit together like a jig saw puzzle. We have no idea what the climate was in terms of comfort.

As for residents of seashore lands, there are huge threats, like tsunamis, hurricanes, and continental subduction (continuous geological event) that's very prevalent all around the Pacific Rim. Major earthquakes are happening, and all it takes is one centered in the right spot to set off the process of sliding those lands under the sea floor, as is happening slowly already. Those people living in those sea level danger zones should have already been moved inland centuries ago. Half the world population lives on one percent of the total landmass, but folks are drawn to coastal areas where the humidity makes summer temperatures feel hotter.

Accurate weather reporting the past 150 years or so has made the graphs to focus on that small period of time. It was rare for my family to learn of a hurricane or tornado in another state until the newspaper might mention such events. But now the barrage of weather news makes those surely growing more common. There's been about 400 hurricanes in Florida in the past, and the frequency hasn't changed significantly, nor have our strongest in that 150 years or 'modern' times been stronger than older ones.

When graphing a mean temperature over 150 years it isn't fair to use that as a long term pattern. Adding more centuries could have the mean highs much flatter, or dipping negatively on a chart. Many scientists use data from glacier cores that are claimed to be millions of years old, but a model of that can be based on the young earth scale making the present glaciers a result of the world wide Genesis flood.

There's nothing mankind can do about the weather or climate. We still can't stop a tornado or arrange for rain to end a drought, so why focus on stopping the whole atmosphere from changing, which would be hundreds of times more difficult than doing those so far impossible feats? The Church needs to focus on souls, holy living, and seek wisdom from God concerning what can be done to mitigate the problems in each locale. Whatever is done ought to be reasonable and effective, not wasting resources or ruining our lives even more than nature affects us. Adaptation ideas are abounding. Outlawing air conditioners while the temperatures increase would multiply health problems. I work outdoors, know how to dress adequately, and know the value of sweat that cools me down. Folks that have the health should experience that phenomenon and welcome it. When there is no wind I pump up a little bottle that feeds water to a tiny nozzle on my hat that makes a mist that drops the temperature around me as much as 20 degrees.

Adaptation is fine for well-resourced nations such as the USA and the UK. For people in poorer nations such as Bangladesh, the consequences are devastating.

 

[Dovegiven]

Adaptation is fine for well-resourced nations such as the USA and the UK. For people in poorer nations such as Bangladesh, the consequences are devastating.

Notice that chart exhibits a trend through what old earth scientists insist is across hundreds of thousands of years, resembling a heartbeat sine wave. Why don't they take into account the 4 lows about 180 ppm? The natural trend ought to be a model that gives hope we are near the normal maximum with help from God. The chart doesn't show a mean. Maybe one can be found that doesn't look prepared to alarm folks more than should be. It could have been a cycle of extreme rain and heavy clouds blocking sunlight, cooling the atmosphere, starting a new ice age. I think that would be far more disastrous.

Remember the ozone layer hole? To this day the ramifications of recovering it entirely by regulating refrigerants could increase global warming according to a National Geographic reported on an interview with NASA climate experts:

"Meanwhile, some scientists say the environmental triumph of a recovering ozone layer could have a troubling side effect: boosting global warming, at least in the Antarctic region.

Ozone itself is a greenhouse gas. A thinner ozone layer not only reduced heat trapped over the region, it helped stir circumpolar winds, which in turn created sea spray that formed reflective, cooling clouds.

"It's very difficult to quantify the impact on a global scale, but I think the evidence suggests filling the hole will have a regional effect on the Antarctic, possibly leading to more warming for the bulk of the Antarctic," Shanklin said. "That could drastically change predictions about global sea level change."

https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/05/100505-science-environment-ozone-hole-25-years/

When they name names of expertise it isn't wise to laugh their comments away, though our Lord might laugh over our chasing other ways. The hole in the layer was somewhat healed, but we still don't know the extended consequences of doing that. So we might have traded the occurrence of some local (directly under the hole) cancer and sealife reproduction problems for global suffering.

So it's possible modern man has both reduced and accelerated warming unwittingly. Maybe burning fossil fuels, which God provided for our survival, had unknown benefits, like filtering sunlight, transferring sun heat to oceanic waters. The Church stood by.......quiet, timid, not even seeing to our own emphasis like should have. So why throw the global treasures at uncertain exercises that are actually not within our control?

It's just isn't reasonable to focus on the problems of this sinful world while the world rejects God of the Bible scriptures, the Creator. He knows what to do or not do until He is ready to wrap it all up. I pray that people suffering enough world-wide will turn to God just in time to be raptured. Meanwhile I'll put my money on propagation of the gospel of Christ.

 

[Dovegiven]

Adaptation is fine for well-resourced nations such as the USA and the UK. For people in poorer nations such as Bangladesh, the consequences are devastating.

Most of the world land mass supports people adapting to what Americans deplore as intolerable. They do survive it all, the population of Africa projected to rise greatly. Actually, inland Africe is often quite pleasant. They don't, however, have local Walmarts, what is an abomination to most Americans, it seems. Bangladesh is right at sea level. They need to abandon that and move to higher ground where the weather is much more tolerable. Why should the world seek to preserve their choice of habitation? I have neighbors from New Orleans who now recognize they are in a paradise compared to there. The levees are but temporary barriers to the inevitable flooding. My wife and I suffered breathing difficulty visiting there, the hear and humidity overwhelming.

An old friend inherited an island in a major river nearby. He sold his wonderful home in Jackson, and built his dream house there. I tried hard to discourage that. "Bruce, there's only cottonwoods and gum trees there, no oaks or pines. Poison ivy and stinging nettle is everywhere. It's a 50 year flood plain." He kept to "Naw, our clubhouse (hunting/fishing) is still there." Well, it was 12 feet above the highest elevation, on cypress poles set decades past. His new house was 4 feet above on concrete pilings. He lost it the next year while still decorating it, the whole building passing through a navigation dam like a roast through a meat grinder. The trees remain, though most are damaged. They will recover. He had a heart attack and is in a nursing home, his wife moving far away.

Turn loose of the world, world. It isn't worth it.

 

[Fragrant Grace]

A very interesting thread thank you for posting Brother @Chad

I'm off to work in a minute so I haven't had time to read all the responses in detail.

I do believe the Lord gave us the world to look after and yet man has abused much of nature such as the felling of the rain forests which does have huge environmental effects.

However, we must remember that today man has so many scientific ways of measuring, recording and comparing data...so comparison with earlier times is really futile as there is no real baseline. In that sense all the hype about climate change and global warming is misleading.

As Christians we know and rejoice that the Lord is in control.....and that His word is infallible.
There will be catastrophic events in the future for the world....much more than we are seeing today.

Praise the Lord for sending His Son to save us and prepare for us an eternal home

 

[Dovegiven]

I wonder if the Bible says there will a lot of people alive when Jesus returns, do we really need to worry about this too much?
Even after the millennial reign, Satan will gather up an army "like the sands of the sea". It sounds like there will be plenty of people around.
One of the judgments in Revelation says the sun will scorch the earth and cause blisters upon people.

I'm not saying we shouldn't be careful, and I'm certainly not saying we shouldn't be responsible for the planet. But with all the end time prophecies
I have a hard time believing we could really destroy the Earth. Yeah I've see the atomic bomb videos, and toxic waste magazines. But I just don't believe
God will let those things happen. Besides, the Revelation judgments are prophesied, to happen, there is nothing we can do to stop them anyway.

Yes CO2 emissions are high right now. We are in the industrial age. The age of automobiles. But It's been high before. Where do you think coal, diamonds,
flourocarbons came from? Where do you think oil itself came from? It's all carbon.

Most of it came from burial of the planet's vegetation in the flood. We benefited from the coal, oil and natural gas, but now the methane leftovers are percolating from beneath the ocean floors. The Democratic woman blames it on our cattle poots, ignoring the terribly adverse affects of just one volcanic eruption like Mt St Helen. Every shore against the Pacific Ocean is subject to more of that, and Yellowstone Park is set to explode and ruin the USA eastern half for decades to come, according to the interpreters there at Old Faithful.

The arboreal rain forests were products of climate change. When the rains of the flood came and atmospheric numidity rose, it was natural for such forests to flourish. Man found other uses for those areas, which ought not affect the whole world surface and atmosphere. We think too highly of ourselves! Natural processes installed by almighty God prevail over whatever man tries to do. Who believes mankind could frustrate the natural processes God set in order? None sane. Well, those believing man is his own god do that. He has dominion, but must listen to God's words to manage rightly.

I will trust my Lord Jesus.

 

[Dovegiven]

A very interesting thread thank you for posting Brother @Chad

I'm off to work in a minute so I haven't had time to read all the responses in detail.

I do believe the Lord gave us the world to look after and yet man has abused much of nature such as the felling of the rain forests which does have huge environmental effects.

However, we must remember that today man has so many scientific ways of measuring, recording and comparing data...so comparison with earlier times is really futile as there is no real baseline. In that sense all the hype about climate change and global warming is misleading.

As Christians we know and rejoice that the Lord is in control.....and that His word is infallible.
There will be catastrophic events in the future for the world....much more than we are seeing today.

Praise the Lord for sending His Son to save us and prepare for us an eternal home

Thank you Sister in the Lord for your insight.

 

[Bendito]

Most of it came from burial of the planet's vegetation in the flood. We benefited from the coal, oil and natural gas, but now the methane leftovers are percolating from beneath the ocean floors. The Democratic woman blames it on our cattle poots, ignoring the terribly adverse affects of just one volcanic eruption like Mt St Helen. Every shore against the Pacific Ocean is subject to more of that, and Yellowstone Park is set to explode and ruin the USA eastern half for decades to come, according to the interpreters there at Old Faithful.

The arboreal rain forests were products of climate change. When the rains of the flood came and atmospheric numidity rose, it was natural for such forests to flourish. Man found other uses for those areas, which ought not affect the whole world surface and atmosphere. We think too highly of ourselves! Natural processes installed by almighty God prevail over whatever man tries to do. Who believes mankind could frustrate the natural processes God set in order? None sane. Well, those believing man is his own god do that. He has dominion, but must listen to God's words to manage rightly.

I will trust my Lord Jesus.

She may be right...Back in the Paleozoic period, it was dino poots

 

[Dovegiven]

She may be right...Back in the Paleozoic period, it was dino poots

I wonder how many dinosaur poots it would have been required to cause their demise? If significant, what of of own world-wide? One fluff of the top sheet has so far taken care of it here. LOL, one after another, causing even more to occur, :happy: