Dating outside own race

[Amen!]

Welcome to TJ, Chely. I'm from Ohio, too. I'm glad to meet you here. Thank you for starting this thread. I, too, have been raised by good, well meaning parents who (apparently mistakenly) taught me and my siblings that interracial marriage is wrong. Until now, I hadn't given it much thought or researched it within His Word. Now that you've brought it up, I realize that I have always had an underlying problem with the belief. It seemed contradictory to God and His Word. For so many years, unfortunately, I've ignored my instincts that this belief is in error and based, most likely, on someone's prejudices.

The matter of your relationship with you and your father over a race issue won't be easily resolved if you wait until after-the-fact. Talk to him now using God and His Word to back you up before emotions can blind him to the truth. You've testified to a strong relationship with your father that probably could withstand anything. Think of it as an opportunity to fellowship with him.

As for me, I'm going to take the opportunity to fellowship with members of my own family regarding this issue. It won't be easy because this belief is so ingrained in them, but it'll be interesting to get their reactions.

GBU!
Amen!

Hi, Leah and Jay, welcome! I'm also new here. Hope to talk with you more soon. GBU!
Amen!

 

[califlower]

Good work, Amen!

Amen! What a wonderful post!! Your work to help people to be more accepting and understanding of each other is blessed. No matter what "race" people are, they are children of God - and you are a very good Christian to do this good work. I am sure it is a beautiful thing to behold in the eyes of the Lord.

One thing that keeps this "myth" going about "race" is definitely the aspect of culture.

Black and hispanic cultures are what are referred to as "unmeltable" in the big Ameircan "melting pot" because their traditions are so strong, and they refuse to let them go - whether or not that's a good or bad thing depends on which side of the heated debate about that topic you're on (this is one of the most controversial subjects in the field of education, for example.) On the other hand, European-Americans have long ago feel they have given up their traditions from their country for the most part, in order to "become American", from their viewpoint, and "fit in". Many feel "cultureless" here in the USA, as a result - and feel that keeping one's own culture is in defiance of "being American". (In actuality, the European traditions are just more subtle, but, they're there. I don't really understand why they don't feel those cultural ties very much, for most of the population.) With a country of over 85% self-described Christians, you wouldn't think this would be a difficult problem to resolve.

The overwhelming social reaction here in the USA when one very diverse culture collides with another can become rather uncomfortable (See: Xenophobia), and since there's a color skin difference, it's easy to "mark" in the mind as "the problem". But it isn't about skin color, it's about culture. Because if you don't know the difference between Mrs. Eminem and Mrs. Denzel Washington, you don't understand culture, and only know how to look at the color of somebody's skin. Rap music, Eubonics, Mexican culture of colors and music, and other "signs" of cultural differences are what really disturbs people, not skin color - signs of "difference" in culture as "outsiders", to those whose families developed the "American culture" the way it stood in 1960 or so - created mostly of of European Americans. Since then, things have changed radically and "whites" (as a word, this hides one's origin more than it states where one is "from") of Europen descent are become less and less of a population segment in size. As Black and Hispanic demographics have swelled, because their birth rates are so much higher, the spreading of those cultures naturally occurs, "white" European-Americans are no longer a majority; and with African American and Hispanic American strong native roots that hold together family values, America's face is changing radically. That scares the previous "majority", I think, because for so long they held power and control, and built the country's existing infrastructure - (which fortunately, is predominantly Christian).

Whenever I see people trying to justify their "racism" in reaction to this change in the image of "America", by using the Bible, which holds no racism whatsoever - I realize, some people don't like that change so much, they'll do anything to try and stop it. But their cause is futile, because America marches forward and is a product of the people it takes in from other places, and always has been. More and more, immigrants and people from these foreign cultures refuse to abandon these traditions and rituals even when they are in complete defiance of the established values of the country in which they live (and they have the right, despite the consequences), refusing to 'blend' into what that culture has been prior to now and keeping their "identity" as a group. Thus, we get "racism" fueled by "culturism" - and of course "classism" - which relates to socioeconomic status, and it splinters the nation into groups - blacks, whites, hispanics, asians, poor, rich, middle-class. All "groups" that adhere because if they don't, they risk getting their feelings hurt by others. That's what's sad from the perspective that even with such an overwhelming "Christian" population, there aren't many people who have treated others "as Christ" over the centuries.

What does all this matter to Jesus? When it comes to race and marriage, absolutely nothing, except I'm sure He hates strife among His people. If they all settled on Faith being the ONLY discriminating attribute for a spouse, He knows, we'd all be fine! What's really really IRONIC about all this, to me, is that Mexican and African American cultures are *so very very religious* and devoted to a love of Jesus Christ, that it can't be ignored. Yet, these very "Christian" Puritans and such that settled this country, and many other "Christians" particularly in the south, held skin color as a "sin" and other unChristian beliefs. *shrug* And although they claimed Christianity, the way they treat these other groups is shameful.

I'm absolutely positive that it isn't pleasing to God at all to have Christians persecuted in their own country for the color of their skin, their clothes, or anything else so superficial. Unfortunately, humans have a big problem with judgement. God knows this, and speaks about it often, in terms of "judging others". Still, people, including and especially many Christians, judge all the time, every moment, even right off the bat without knowing them at all: From skin piercings to what car you drive, never mind just the color of your skin or the slant of your eyes. This is something I'm sure that saddens God, that we, as humans, don't reserve our judgement until we know someone's heart.

God bless you for helping others to see the Truth, AMEN!, that what lies in the heart is what is important - and everybody's heart is the same color. Red.

*smile*

In the Love of Christ Jesus, CaliFlower

 

[Amen!]

Hi, Califlower. Good to meet you, Sister. :girl: :girl_hug:

Due to the sensitivity of the issue, I hesitate to discuss it in much more depth. If I say anything controversial or insulting to anyone, I want you to know it is out of pure ignorance on the subject and I heartily apologize.

During my aforementioned upbringing it was, more-or-less, insinuated that society's methodic, progressive desensitization to interracial relationships would ultimately lead to the conclusion of some or all diversity. In other words, all races would meld into one. I was taught, directly or indirectly, that this possibility was the antithesis to the "Tower of Babel" event.

In essence, melding races was included as an aspect of the goal of a "One World Order". One race, one religion, one currency, one government, etc. Hitler attempted this by murdering 'non-conforming' races, but interracial relationships slowly and methodically achieves the same end, supposedly. Additionally, the questions of 'Why would God create different races in the first place?" and "Is it a good idea to undo God's work?" was also posed at some point in my past. These are reasonable questions any Christian should consider, IMO.

(I believe this particular post, in comparison to my first post, is called waffling. :embarasse Apparently, I'm just not totally decided on the issue, but I still intend to discuss it with my family.)

While I respect and appreciate your insight to the role culture plays in this long-held dilemma, I believe it really is a much more biblical 'logic' at the root of the Christian opposition to interracial marriage and culture is, unfortunately, more of a conduit for discrimination. At least for some...but what do I know, eh?

GBU, Sister!
Amen!

Note: If my comments in this discussion lead to any sort of strife, I will withdraw from the conversation and ask that my contributions be deleted.

 

[califlower]

Race to the Finish

During my aforementioned upbringing it was, more-or-less, insinuated that society's methodic, progressive desensitization to interracial relationships would ultimately lead to the conclusion of some or all diversity. In other words, all races would meld into one. I was taught, directly or indirectly, that this possibility was the antithesis to the "Tower of Babel" event. ... In essence, melding races was included as an aspect of the goal of a "One World Order". One race, one religion, one currency, one government, etc.

While I respect and appreciate your insight to the role culture plays in this long-held dilemma, I believe it really is a much more biblical 'logic' at the root of the Christian opposition to interracial marriage and culture is, unfortunately, more of a conduit for discrimination. At least for some...but what do I know, eh?

GBU, Sister!
Amen!

Note: If my comments in this discussion lead to any sort of strife, I will withdraw from the conversation and ask that my contributions be deleted.

First I'd like to say that you are 100% correct, that the "biblical logic" (since it doesn't exist) is merely for the purpose of supporting racist agendas - that's exactly what I was saying in my last post. Perhaps I was vague. But far from being ignorant, you are expressing a common notion that has been suggested for decades, spurring general fear *among whites, predominantly* that there would be no diversity left on the Earth, and without ONE shred of scientific proof or even theory; and, you did it quite articulately. You write well. But let's dismantle this a little before you head off to the "race discussion" with the family? First of all, human genetics don't work that way. You'll never rid the population of certain genetic differences that will crop up again and again, like recessive blue eyes. Even in a thousand years, you would never truly get "one race". This is something discussed by people who aren't in the sciences, methinks. I'd be happy to hear from anybody in bioscience and/or medicine/genetics that feels it's possible for 6 billion people to breed in an exchange of gene pools that would somehow eradicate all genetic differences between individuals, even in ten centuries or more... or even... ever. It would have to be *systematic* and controlled, and populations breed willy-nilly! :shade:

But you're right on an important point here. The fact of the matter is the Bible suggests that in the end days, the world will come down to "one world order", one religion, one government, but never "one race", that is never suggested - elsewise we'd have something to call "biblical logic" - and we do not. The thing is, "race" is a PHYSICAL thing; and although it seems to "make sense" that 'interbreeding' would lessen society, it betters it; interbreeding makes healthier progeny. You know that, just from knowing mutts live longer than purebreds. The more you mix disparate genes, the stronger/healthier usually the result. But as for how long this would take - centuries - it leads into the discussion of things like the Apocalypse, the Rapture, Revelations! So... My question is now to you, do you honestly think the world will continue that long? Because I see the end days in front of me (2 Tim 3), plain as day. I don't think this will ever be a concern; but being in sin, not married to the man you love, who is Christian, equally yoked - but a different race - THAT is a concern.

Whatever is going on, if there is a couple that wants to marry and people are trying to stop them because of "race issues", it's a very very sad situation, and if you are in this space - I will pray for you and your family. In my very humble opinion, my dear sister, all racism comes down to ignorance; it's scary not to understand people of a different color, language, culture, values - when they are moving into your country and seemingly marrying into your population. It's your KIDS "they" are "taking" from you, is how they feel, more than likely. That's what I see, anyway. Parents want to see their children have a smooth road, too, in life in general - and many people are afraid that couples who are racially mixed, will face a lot of difficulty, especially their children in school; that discrimination and racism are still quite alive (personally we don't see it here, but I think in the midwest/south there are still some people who are genuine racists.) Here we don't have that problem, at least I am not aware of it. But I know it exists all over the world; even blacks kill other blacks in "ethnic cleansing". Yes, the world is crazy. Mostly because "different" and "new" things are frightening to humans, especially when the race/culture is starkly different to their own. Then again, there's just good old greed, ignorance, and hatred of the unknown to feed ethnic cleansing or any other type of racist activity.

Regardless of the actual "issue of interracial marriage" in the eyes of God, Mankind, our society, or your family - I want to encourage you not to be afraid to discuss your feelings and issues here at talkjesus.com; although this is a very strict and formal format, when people's thoughts and concerns are genuine, loving, Christian, and expressed in a compassionate way, there will be understanding, rebuke, correction, and LOVE. This is a very well-run website that is empathetic and caring. People here are not bashed around for their common errors, or tossed out on their ear for honest mistakes, so they're fair from what I've seen. Do not fear, you are surrounded by good Christians here, who can discuss without anger and strife, and work through these controversies; at the very least, "agreeing to disagree". At least, that's my impression so far! Love in Christ to you, and wonderful to meet you. In the Love of Jesus Christ, CaliFlower

 

[Jay Adkins]

I still believe there to be nothing wrong with it. Our Pastor gave a sermon on the topic of interracial relationships since the question has come up time and again in our church. Our church has many many interracial couples and I have never experienced a place so wonderfully diverse and welcoming to the diversity.

Anyway, the Pastor talked about the long standing fears among white Anglo Saxons that they would somehow lose their identity if this type of behavior was allowed to happen. They were mistakenly taught that "people of color" are that way because they are descended from a wayward follower of The Gospel by God to punish him.

Of course this is all nonsense and their fears are more than unsubstantiated, they are merely false. There is only one type of human being, whether black, white, purple or yellow and if God had condemned interracial relationships, He would have made us incompatible with other races. Meaning we would simply be unable to reproduce with another race. We are no different regardless of color. Think of it this way, God made it impossible to recreate with any animal other than another human. Don't you think He would have done the same if He disapproved of the possibility of interracial relationships?

 

[califlower]

Does "Equally Yoked" Mean more than just Faith?

Wow! What a great new persepective you just introduced! Definitely a valid point, but then, He also asks us to be "equally yoked". You and I realize this means only in our Christian Faith, but one could possibly argue more. I think some really desperately deep into racist organizations would try to make a false debate there. Well done, sir. God bless you mightily Jay Adkins! My Christian friends, I think we all concur. How refreshing. *hugs* for all. By the way Jay - do you want to share the name of that great church of yours? In Christ, CaliFlower :rose:

 

[Jay Adkins]

Wow! What a great new persepective you just introduced! Definitely a valid point, but then, He also asks us to be "equally yoked". You and I realize this means only in our Christian Faith, but one could possibly argue more. I think some really desperately deep into racist organizations would try to make a false debate there. Well done, sir. God bless you mightily Jay Adkins! My Christian friends, I think we all concur. How refreshing. *hugs* for all. By the way Jay - do you want to share the name of that great church of yours? In Christ, CaliFlower :rose:

Thanks, I guess sometimes I add too much logic to things....LOL My church home is Lenexa Christian Center in the Kansas City suburb of Lenexa on the Kansas side of the city. We have about 6000 members including several Kansas City Chiefs players all the way down to average Joes like me...LOL You can watch our services with Pastor Mike Purkey every week on TBN and The Church Channel. He gives some very moving sermons, you should all check it out sometime if you get the chance and have either of those stations.

Pastor Purkey is also a Gospel singer and you can find his cds in your local Christian bookstore. Ok, now I sound like a commercial, I'll stop...LOL

 

[08kellcd]

I have to admit-i believe in interracial relationships. i believe that we are all god's people no matter what race we are and i believe that we should be with other believers- no matter what race they are. i agree with you jay- i see nothing wrong with it.

 

[SpiritLedEd]

Racial prejudice

"And you are to love those who are aliens, for you yourselves were aliens in Egypt." (Dt 10:19).

I suspect that prejudice was rooted in the beliefs and practices of the pagan nations that surrounded ancient Israel and when the Israelites ignored God's commandment against intermarrying with pagans, prejudicial attitudes infiltrated their culture and worked their way down to us.

Thus, we are predisposed to hostility toward those who are of races other than our own.

I'm not condoning or making excuses for racial hatred/prejudice. It is SIN; there's no two ways about it. But, to understand its origin in human society and how it has infiltrated Christianity, we need to trace it back to its very roots.




SLE

 

[Amen!]

...far from being ignorant, you are expressing a common notion that has been suggested for decades, spurring general fear *among whites, predominantly* that there would be no diversity left on the Earth, and without ONE shred of scientific proof or even theory; and, you did it quite articulately.

Thank you for your complimentary approach, but I would like to make clear that my intentions were never to propagate any level of fear. As a matter-of-fact, my desire is to dispel any possible self-serving distortions of the truth, PARTICULARLY biblical truth. In order to do that, I must seek and find the truth.

First of all, human genetics don't work that way. You'll never rid the population of certain genetic differences that will crop up again and again, like recessive blue eyes. Even in a thousand years, you would never truly get "one race". This is something discussed by people who aren't in the sciences, methinks. I'd be happy to hear from anybody in bioscience and/or medicine/genetics that feels it's possible for 6 billion people to breed in an exchange of gene pools that would somehow eradicate all genetic differences between individuals, even in ten centuries or more... or even... ever. It would have to be *systematic* and controlled, and populations breed willy-nilly!

You are correct, I haven't a smidgeon of scientific knowledge or evidence in genetics to support any theory, only presumption and common sense. As they say, I know only enough to be dangerous. :wink:

You make a very good point. A child born to a caucasian woman will retain caucasian genes, at least to some degree, regardless of the child's paternal race. That doesn't negate the fact, though, that this particular child will gain the gene's of his/her father's race, were it different from the mother's. Changing the composition of the child's genetics alters the child's race, does it not? A child born of a black/white union can no longer be called black or white, but both. The claim of "one race" could never literally become reality by these means because through the generations, each half of the parental equation will vary in regards to race; thereby creating a race of "mutts", to abuse your term. Theoretically, that race of "mutts" becomes the "one race" that people fear because there is no longer pure races. I don't personally fear this end and until your comments regarding culture, hadn't really fully understood anyone else's fear of it; with exception to the view that it possibly meant meddling with God's creation.

But you're right on an important point here. The fact of the matter is the Bible suggests that in the end days, the world will come down to "one world order", one religion, one government, but never "one race", that is never suggested - elsewise we'd have something to call "biblical logic" - and we do not. The thing is, "race" is a PHYSICAL thing; and although it seems to "make sense" that 'interbreeding' would lessen society, it betters it; interbreeding makes healthier progeny. You know that, just from knowing mutts live longer than purebreds. The more you mix disparate genes, the stronger/healthier usually the result.

In critically considering the "one race" issue as it pertains to "One World Order", I realize that in order for it to apply, that "one race" would have to be a PURE race.

It would be interesting to research your claim that interbreeding makes healthier progeny and betters society. Would you recommend any particular formal study or statistics from which you've garnered this conclusion?

But as for how long this would take - centuries - it leads into the discussion of things like the Apocalypse, the Rapture, Revelations! So... My question is now to you, do you honestly think the world will continue that long? Because I see the end days in front of me (2 Tim 3), plain as day. I don't think this will ever be a concern; but being in sin, not married to the man you love, who is Christian, equally yoked - but a different race - THAT is a concern.

Honestly, no. I do not believe the world will continue as is for much longer.

Whatever is going on, if there is a couple that wants to marry and people are trying to stop them because of "race issues", it's a very very sad situation, and if you are in this space - I will pray for you and your family. In my very humble opinion, my dear sister, all racism comes down to ignorance; it's scary not to understand people of a different color, language, culture, values - when they are moving into your country and seemingly marrying into your population. It's your KIDS "they" are "taking" from you, is how they feel, more than likely. That's what I see, anyway. Parents want to see their children have a smooth road, too, in life in general - and many people are afraid that couples who are racially mixed, will face a lot of difficulty, especially their children in school; that discrimination and racism are still quite alive (personally we don't see it here, but I think in the midwest/south there are still some people who are genuine racists.) Here we don't have that problem, at least I am not aware of it. But I know it exists all over the world; even blacks kill other blacks in "ethnic cleansing". Yes, the world is crazy. Mostly because "different" and "new" things are frightening to humans, especially when the race/culture is starkly different to their own. Then again, there's just good old greed, ignorance, and hatred of the unknown to feed ethnic cleansing or any other type of racist activity.

For what it's worth, I totally agree that the fears you mentioned above play a HUGE role in the opposition to interracial marriages. Racism and hatred are always extremely unfortunate. For many, though, it's not a matter of one's cultural or biological superiority or inferiority. It's an innocent matter of whether or not mixing races is meddling in God's affairs. For them, it's as simple as that; no prejudice involved. That's critical and difficult to overcome for them. As far as I know, there aren't any specific verses in the Bible that directly condemns or supports it, but the mere fact that God created different races demands our attention and respect. Why would He have made those differences if He didn't intend them to remain in tact? I wish I had the answers.

Once again I must add a disclaimer. My intent is never to harm anyone with my words, thoughts or beliefs. If I have, I sincerely apologize from the depths of my heart and soul. If necessary, I will withdraw myself and any offensive comments I may have made.

Blessings and love to you in Christ's name.
Amen!

 

[Jay Adkins]

It is a good argument to say that God created different races and would want them to stay in tact. However, I truly believe God created diversity so that we may experience it in it's true form. I mean, it would really be boring if everyone were the same. On the same token, I still believe that if we weren't to be in relations with other races, He would have made us incompatable.

You cannot breed a horse with a dog and for good reason, they are different animals. However, you can breed variations of dogs together. You can also breed a horse with a zebra because they are of the same species. I believe this to be the same with humans. We are all of the same species, regardless of color or ethnicity.

Furthermore, there have always been variations of caucasians, blacks and so on...even in Jesus' time. Just like there are different tones of black people, there are different tones of caucasians and always have been. None of us are truly the same color anyway, so it really doesn't matter.

God is very specific in His laws and He surely would have condemned it if He was opposed to it. Every single sin is addressed in the Bible in one form or another. Yet, you will never find any opposition to interracial relationships in the Bible.

 

[califlower]

The Rhetoric of Predjudice isn't in the Word of God

A child born of a black/white union can no longer be called black or white, but both. The claim of "one race" could never literally become reality by these means because through the generations, each half of the parental equation will vary in regards to race; thereby creating a race of "mutts", to abuse your term. Theoretically, that race of "mutts" becomes the "one race" that people fear because there is no longer pure races.

Generally, since they aren't responding to the Love of Christ or following any sort of Christian behavior, racists would call a child of a "visibly black" person and "visibly white" person BOTH - the racist black would consider him inferior. The racist white would consider him "black" plain and simple. And BOTH would be wrong and judging on skin color instead of acting like decent, intelligent, Christian men, and looking at what is in the heart and the head. I'm afraid this "mutt theory" is exactly what we very carefully tried to rebuke here in this thread, and give you good science to follow - to show you that it is in err. I will pray that you try to understand that there aren't any pure races NOW. We're all "mutts" and so are you. God loves mutts, otherwise surely He wouldn't have made so many?

In critically considering the "one race" issue as it pertains to "One World Order", I realize that in order for it to apply, that "one race" would have to be a PURE race.

But there is no pure race. So I don't know what you mean. Do you think a race can somehow become "pure"? It's not possible. Even in a thousand years. I wish I could tell you these people are right, but, it's clear they aren't. :thumbs_do

It would be interesting to research your claim that interbreeding makes healthier progeny and betters society. Would you recommend any particular formal study or statistics from which you've garnered this conclusion?

It's pretty much been researched to death, and one of the first things you learn in biological sciences. In fact, I knew it by the end of high school science, if I didn't already know it in my heart - because I know all men are equal in the eyes of God, no matter what color they are. :thumbs_up

Racism and hatred are always extremely unfortunate. For many, though, it's not a matter of one's cultural or biological superiority or inferiority. It's an innocent matter of whether or not mixing races is meddling in God's affairs.

You claim it's unfortunate, but my dear sister, I hear the racist's rhetoric here being excused, and justified. Not just "understood" by you. It isn't "innocent" whatsoever when you call upon the name of God, suggest you might be able to have power over Him, and use that to promote "meddling in other people's affairs" who wish to marry and make their lives right, and out of the sin of fornication, in the eyes of the Lord.

For them, it's as simple as that; no prejudice involved.

It is the very definition of predjudice and racism, actually, to presume that there is a "difference" to God, in terms of "color of skin", and that you CAN "meddle" - do you honestly think God would let you "meddle" in HIS affairs? This statement really astounded me, and would bring up another good thread: "Do you believe Man has Power over God?" Anybody answering that in the affirmative, in my opinion, would be supporting blasphemy. And, I think the answer to that is a big fat clear NO. But that's just my humble opinion. I'd be interested to know what others think of that idea? :shade:

As far as I know, there aren't any specific verses in the Bible that directly condemns or supports it, but the mere fact that God created different races demands our attention and respect.

First of all, "Man" created all the various races that exist now, unless you think God promoted the sin in which they have bred? Where in the Bible does it say that these races can't intermingle? And where would you draw the line? Should the Italians not marry the Swedes? Should the Japanese not marry the Koreans? The "respect" I'll give is to God, who APPROVED OF THE MARRIAGES IN THE OLD TESTMAMENT BETWEEN RACES AND CULTURES. And continues to bless interracially created new people with healthier bodies and beautiful countenances. Please, dear sister, read your Bible and think with not just your head, but soften your heart!

Why would He have made those differences if He didn't intend them to remain in tact? I wish I had the answers.

We've told you repeatedly. There's nothing in the Bible that even references any "judgement", in fact, races intermarrying were approved all the time by God in the OT; and PLEASE NOTE: a) there are no pure races on this Earth, except perhaps some strange aborigine tribe that has been locked away on some remote island we aren't aware of b) there haven't been pure races as far as we know for thousands of years on this planet, c) Nothing has remained "in tact" whatsoever in terms of "God's races" because of that fact, and lastly, d) you've been handed the answers here by your loving Christian brothers and sisters, over and over. I think you maybe should open your heart to their words?

Perhaps open your heart to the 11th commandment, in which Jesus said, "Love one another"... not "Love your White Neighbor." Or, "Love your Identially-colored same-race neighbor".

God bless you in your search for Truth. It might help to actually take some science courses, some study of genetics, some study of history. But most of all, just study the hearts of people, and perhaps, the skin color will start to disappear. It's going to be very hard to be convincing with your family if you're missing the basic building blocks of the "other side" of the opinion. And mustering every bit of Love you have in your heart for your fellow man, no matter what race - no one deserves more "judgement" than the cruel world already delivers.

In the Love of Christ, CaliFlower

 

[Amen!]

I regret the apparent tension I've caused you, Sister Cali. From the bottom of my heart, I apologize and hope that you can forgive me. I cannot tell you that all my questions have been answered in this discussion, but I do apologize for the direction it has taken. For me, it was never a "debate".

You are absolutely right about this being something I should pray and meditate on. I'll remember to ask our Lord to keep me humble and help me to avoid the pitfall of thinking I already have all the answers. I'll remember to thank Him for granting me patience, the wisdom to maintain self-control and the ability to temper my pride in the face of criticism. I'll reaffirm with God the fact that I do know all men were created equal in the eyes of God and that no man has any power over Him. I will ask Him to forgive you, as I have, for creating the impression on others that I said or believe otherwise. Afterall, how can I continue as an effective witness if my Christianity has been unfairly called into question? I will discuss with Him the sadness that I feel when men do meddle in the affairs of God through such means as cloning, abortion, etc. I will thank Him mightily for the free will He has given us to make those horrendous choices, but have the Holy Spirit guiding us to make better choices. I will continue reading His Word and I will rejoice in the knowledge that He imparts to me. All I ask of you, Cali, is to allow my words to speak for themselves. False criticisms or accusations will not stick to Christians because the Truth resides with them. Anyone who cares to honestly examine this thread will realize that my posts were questioning in nature and never accusatory.

Rest assured, I will look to God as the final authority on the issue. While I enjoy fellowshipping with my brothers and sisters in Christ, I remain alert to the fact that they are as fallible as I.

God's blessings and my love to you, Sister Cali.
Amen!

 

[califlower]

Judge not!

I will ask Him to forgive you, as I have, for creating the impression on others that I said or believe otherwise. Afterall, how can I continue as an effective witness if my Christianity has been unfairly called into question?

First, I have ceased these threads on this topic, because I didn't want a debate to ensue, which I explained in my editing notes previously. So no, I specifically said there wasn't a debate here. And I assured it. Secondly, being an effective witness will mean you will move forward no matter how you are persecuted; for TRULY living in the Word of God means you WILL be persecuted. But that persecution comes from the world, hopefully not your own brethren - so the interpretation of the posts presented to you as "questioning your Christianity", by my self and others in this manner, is, in my humble opinion, inappropriate here. :thumbs_do Only the Moderators here would discern that for us, and I'm hoping they will look over the thread and note that.

Suggesting you read the Bible more carefully to see there is no scripture pertaining to condemnation of interracial marriage, and consider what's being said to you by the members of TalkJesus.com, isn't "calling into question your Christianity" and I think they can see that clearly. So I'm confused as to why you are saying this, perhaps just a misunderstanding? Or are you purposely drawing attention away from accepting what is in err? In doing so, you have spoken against your sister who is trying to be helpful: Should I ask the Lord to forgive you for slandering me now, that I would ever suggest ANY Christian's Faith should be questioned? :unlove: This is definitely NOT the direction to take on this, in my very humble opinion, and to avoid further debating this will be my last words - but certainly I would have to respond and clear up your own confusion as to my post and tell you I'd never slander anyone here at any time, or judge their Christianity - ever.

You might want to read the posts carefully again, see you are not the least bit accused, condemned, judged, or even your actual "faith" mentioned whatsoever, as far as I'm aware; perhaps silent prayer would be best while re-reading this thread - to ask the Holy Spirit for guidance, to open your heart, see you are not being persecuted, but only supported. :thumbs_up Your post clearly turns around, back onto who has suggested assisted you - you frame this as "needing prayer to forgive" something never done to you. And even if it's covered in "humbled text", that isn't a humble position by assuming you need to pray for people who haven't judged you, but have only tried to help you, educate you, and love you as a Christian sister about to "do battle" with people who have hard-set ideas grounded in a racist foundation. :thumbs_up Which means that the apologies are perceived disingenuous, that's the logical conclusion, I'm afraid.

Lastly, the assumption that begins your post is also a ground upon which you cannot stand; I'm not the least bit "upset" or even tensed by your rhetoric - this is all between you, your family, and God. Nobody else! resent:

:lightbulb CAUTIONARY NOTE: This is something very, very common about "text only" formats - you can't "hear" me. You can't hear my voice at all - you can't hear me being gentle, pleading, loving, instructive, in rebuke, forgiving, and understanding... but holding firm to the Bible and what it says - and what it doesn't. And it doesn't say a word condemning "interracial marriage". :thumbs_up I ask you, my dear sister, not to overlay your own issues into the text of others in ascribing any "emotions" whatsoever that aren't expressed; perhaps you'd like to *ask* first if the person is "upset" in any way? To make sure you are on target? :shade:

Finally, the suggestion that you educate yourself, consider everybody's posts, and be armed with facts, to discuss this with your family - a passionate plea to listen to your brothers and sisters here at TalkJesus, and all the logic given you, that surrounds the explanation to you, regarding the errors in that "text that stands alone and speaks for itself" - is nothing more than that suggestion. Nothing implied or "inbetween the lines", it's all up front, and is all that was ever discussed. No one EVER questioned one's FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST. In fact, it's never even remotely suggested, if it is, please show me where? Dear Sister, only God has this right to judge other's faith, hearts, real intentions, or mental states (such as "tension") we cannot see? Neither you, nor I, have the ability to do so rightly, or fairly. Which is fair to reason, it's WHY it's God's JOB. Not ours!

God bless you and keep you on the path of truth, humility, forgiveness and understanding; and all so in the Glory of the Lord.

In the Love of Jesus Christ, CaliFlower :rose:

 

[Jay Adkins]

Amen!, just as Califlower said, we aren't questioning your faith in Christ. We are merely relaying truths to you from the Bible itself. Just as I said before, God is very specific in His Word and never mentions anywhere the condemnation of interracial relationships. He has condemned all detestable things in His Word and every sin is listed in the Bible. I sincerely hope you don't believe we are questioning your faith by any means, only trying to help you understand why we say what we say. God bless!

 

[Mike]

Very good input from all members . TalkJesus is about sharing many topics about our live's in the world and as Christians . Lets just close this thread now and let the Holy Spirit guide us all in our own directions . Peace be with all who responded . :boy_hug: Mike