Defining Evidence on Supernatural Tongue Before Pentecost

[Garee]

Isaiah 28:
11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest;
and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

1 Corinthians 14:
21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people;
and yet for all that will they not hear me, says the Lord.
22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serves
not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

Yes tongues is simply prophecy the word of God. a sign against the unbeliving Mocking jews . In there mokery they would make a senesles noise and fall backward to show they are under the spirit of Judgement .


Isaiah 28: 11-13 So God will use this strange way of talking, and he will use other languages to speak to these people. In the past he spoke to them and said, “Here is a resting place. Let those who are tired come and rest. This is the place of peace.”But they would not listen to him. So the Lord’s words will be senseless sounds to them:

“Saw lasaw saw lasaw.
Qaw laqaw qaw laqaw.
Ze’er sham ze’er sham.”

When the people try to walk, they will fall backwards. They will be defeated, trapped, and captured.

 

[Garee]

Interestingly what I would call the doctrine of the “spirit of judgment” in respect to falling backward

Isaiah 28 shown as those who fall backward (some call it slain in the spirit) it is clearly a mocking of the tongue of God’s prophecy spoken of in all the nations of the world, a fulfillment of Joel in Acts 2 .

Those who do mock the word of God (sola scriptura) without any oral traditions they rather lean on their own oral traditions like those in Acts 2 that called the words spoken by Peter words of a drunk .

They are used as an example of what not to do using Judas as one example who when he came to take Jesus to be crucified .When Jesus saw them he declared just who the I AM is speaking words with power. . they went backward as if their necks were broken .

The false apostle Judas was not part of those who make up the bride of Christ .He is missing in the book of Revelation just as the tribe Dan.

Dan is used to represent the letter of the law death, the “spirit of judgment” in so much that it will not be part of the new order.

Used as a parable of one thrown of their high horse being bitten by the poison of false doctrine. Like making a senseless noise (Saw lasaw saw lasaw. Qaw laqaw qaw laqaw. Ze’er sham ze’er sham.”) and falling back to indicate a broken neck .The spirit of judgment reckoned by the word backward

Genesis 49:16 Dan shall judge his people, as one of the tribes of Israel. Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward.

Backward = spirit of judgment. Forward the light of the gospel. The I Am.

1 Samuel 4:18 And it came to pass, when he made mention of the ark of God, that he fell from off the seat backward by the side of the gate, and his neck brake, and he died: for he was an old man, and heavy. And he had judged Israel forty years.

Jeremiah 7:24 But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear, but walked in the counsels and in the imagination of their evil heart, and went backward, and not forward

Powerful moving words “I AM He” the power of life or death

John 18:5-7 King James Version (KJV)They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them. As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.

 

[Bill]

I understand that this is real to you, but questions will be asked.

How did the utterance came to you through and by the Holy Ghost? At your salvation or at a later time apart from your salvation?



How do you apply the truth in His words that the Holy Spirit cannot speak for Himself, but speaks what He hears in John 16:13 KJV? You can check any modern Bible version and they all share the same truth that the Holy Spirit cannot speak on His own authority or on His own accord or on His own initiative; thus distinctly saying He can only speak what He hears as God's gift of tongues can be for nothing else but be of other men's lips to speak into the people. ( 1 Corinthians 14:21 )

Does that truth testify that He cannot speak for Himself in uttering His own intercessions? Romans 8:26-27 KJV has it right in that the Holy Spirit cannot even utter His groanings in verse 26, which is why the One that searches our hearts is Jesus Christ, the Son of God ( Hebrews 4:12-16 KJV ) is the One that knows the mind of the Spirit in giving His intercessions for Him to the Father because there is only One Mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus ( 1 Timothy 2:5 KJV ). Jesus is the Only One at that throne of grace by Whom we have access to God the Father by ( John 14:6 KJV ) This is why it is in according to the will of God.

Jesus being the only way to come to God the Father and that includes prayer ( John 14:6 KJV ) so that when the Son gives our intercessions and the Spirit's unspeakable intercessions, and His own intercessions to the Father, when the Father says yes to any of those intercessions, only the Son answers the prayers. John 14:13-14 KJV This is done according to the will of God so that the Father may be glorified in the Son for answers to prayers which is why we give thanks to the Father in Jesus's name.

So the Holy Spirit has intercessions for us but He cannot utter them. Jesus knows the mind of the Spirit to give the unspeakable intercessions of the Spirit's to the Father for Him.

That is why I do not believe the tongues today used for "prayer life" is of Him, especially when it is gained as most tongue speakers testify of by a second blessing which is a receiving of the Holy Spirit apart from salvation.



Do you think the disciples at Pentecost had received tongues like a baby's babble in the beginning as well or were they speaking the wonderful works of God in foreign languages to devout Jews from other nations?

Why would God switched the mode for speaking unto the people and have His tongues comes with interpretation in the assembly, suddenly switch the mode in how the Spirit was to use tongues for by turning it around for personal means of uttering His own intercessions which is supposed to be unspeakable, including His groanings? Isn't that confusion? Then God cannot be the author of that tongue.

So believers are to test the spirits and prove the tongues because there is a supernatural tongue in the world which is vain & profane babbling which is not of Him at all as evidence shown in the OP.

I believe in God's gift of tongues which is of other men's lips to speak unto the people. By the scripture and His wisdom in discerning by His words, there is no way the tongues in use today is God's real gift of tongues. There are too many scriptures in the KJV that speaks against the misapplication of His words in 1 Corinthians 14th chapter for trying to justify using tongues privately when ignoring the precedent set in 1 Corinthians 12th chapter that God's gift of tongues were to profit the body withal. 1 Corinthians 12:7 KJV

Remember beloved? How she applied Romans 5:19 out of context of that chapter by ignoring how that shed blood was applied to believers which is by faith in Jesus Christ in Romans 5:1-2 KJV ? The same is being done here when tongue speakers thinks Paul is describing how cool tongue is by itself in 1 Corinthians 12th chapter but ignoring the precedent set for why and how these gifts would be manifested in teh assembly. It cannot be for personal use for then that would be like saying, I am the eye and I have no need of any other body of Christ. Each tongue speaker can hold their own private service by that supernatural tongue for private use which runs against scripture for how those gifts were to profit the body withal.

1 Corinthians 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.............19 And if they were all one member, where were the body? 20 But now are they many members, yet but one body.21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.

So there is just cause to test the spirits and prove the tongues especially since sinners are to be called out of the world and away from their spirits and their kind of supernatural tongue nonsense to abtsian from all appearances of evil.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

So by the scriptures, there is no way I can believe God's gift of tongues can be used privately or as a means for the Holy Spirit to utter His own intercessions when we are to stand apart from the world and especially from the supernatural tongue that is in the world which is vain & profane babbling nonsense and hardly a language at all.

God wants you to pray so that you know what you had prayed for at that throne of grace by way of the Son so that when you receive answers to prayers, you will give genuine thanks to the Father in Jesus's name.

1 Thessalonians 5:17 Pray without ceasing. 18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.

Even in worship.

Ephesians 5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; 20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;

Colossians 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. 17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

Did not Paul argue for someone else to interpret the tongue manifested by the Holy Spirit through himself so that tongue would be fruitful to himself as a tongue speaker?

1 Corinthians 12:6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine? 7 And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped? 8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle? 9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air. 10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification. 11 Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me. 12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church. 13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. 16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest? 17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.

So Paul was exhorting believers that were zealous for spiritual gifts to seek the gift of prophesy over all spiritual gifts and that was his message when he began to compare tongues by itself against the gift of prophesy because tongues is not a stand alone gift that it has to come with interpretation for it to even be fruitful to the tongue speaker.

So the tongue edifies as it is fruitful only when interpreted to the tongue speaker.

If tongues came without interpretation by the practice of having 2 or 3 speak in tongues while another interpret as the same for 2 or 3 prophesy and another judge, someone visiting may stand up and speak out of turn for why there is no interpretation coming and that is why they could tell him to be silent ( 1 Corinthians 14:26-28 ) for he speaks unto himself, meaning he understands what he is saying as God does too but he was speaking in his native foreign tongue which was why interpretation was not coming because his tongue was not manifested by the Holy Spirit.

From the very first verse of that chapter, Paul was giving the message to believers zealous for spiritual gifts to seek the gift of prophesy over all spiritual gifts. 1 Corinthians 14:1 Paul was explaining why by comparing tongues against prophesy because tongues is not a stand lone gift for any one to use, especially for the tongue speaker that needs interpretation for him to understand the tongue for that tongue to be fruitful to himself.

So tongue speakers need to go before that throne of grace and asks the Lord Jesus Christ for help in discerning what has been shared here to discern that kind of tongue cannot be of Him for it is confusion when it without interpretation, especially to the tongue speaker all by himself. In context to that chapter, His gift of tongue can edify the tongue speaker when it comes with interpretation but that is why prophesy is the best gift to seek among all spiritual gifts.

And Paul did not say that to obtain any of those gifts, one has to seek to receive the Holy Spirit apart from salvation for that would be departing from this testimony that all believers were to share and speak the same thing.

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

There is no other filling nor any other calling to be filled by for that would be a departure from the faith for why that tongues does not come with interpretation.

It seems many who do not testify of that other extra encounter still speak the same kind of apostate tongue gained by that apostate calling, and so one has to test the spirits & prove the tongue still in keeping the faith which is the good fight.

The good fight is certainly not defending tongues for private use nor defending that other apostate calling to be filled with the Holy Spirit apart from salvation either.

For those who understand the Spirit of God and the movement of the Holy Spirit within. You would never bother to question Amadeus. Because the Holy Spirit would confirm his words to you already.

 

[Bill]

Jesus being the only way to come to God the Father and that includes prayer ( John 14:6 KJV ) so that when the Son gives our intercessions and the Spirit's unspeakable intercessions, and His own intercessions to the Father, when the Father says yes to any of those intercessions, only the Son answers the prayers. John 14:13-14 KJV This is done according to the will of God so that the Father may be glorified in the Son for answers to prayers which is why we give thanks to the Father in Jesus's name.



Actually, you did not.

Repeating now my quote from which you had replied below.

"So the Holy Spirit has intercessions for us but He cannot utter them. Jesus knows the mind of the Spirit to give the unspeakable intercessions of the Spirit's to the Father for Him.

That is why I do not believe the tongues today used for "prayer life" is of Him, especially when it is gained as most tongue speakers testify of by a second blessing which is a receiving of the Holy Spirit apart from salvation."



It is not man's logic when scripture of John 16:13 KJV or any Bible version testifies that the Holy Spirit cannot utter His own intercessions Himself.



There is no other use of tongues in Acts 2 other than to declare the wonderful works of God in foreign languages to devout Jews from every nation under the heaven.



I would consider this as using man's logic in trying to justify the baby's babble for your prayer tongue as well as testifying that if believers do not have this prayer language, then they do not have the Holy Spirit and thus they are not saved because you just said that is what it means to be born again as evidence of speaking in a baby's babble. Reads to me that all you are doing is making a case in sowing insecurities towards believers that do not speak in tongues about wondering if they have the Holy Spirit or not.

So far, you are using tongues to separate yourself from other non-tongue speaking believers as if saying, look at what I have that you don't have. How is that an example of God's love towards the body of Christ? Whereas manifesting tongues in one member and the interpretation of that tongue in another is an example of God's love & action towards the body of Christ.

And how can it profit the individual tongue speaker as a prayer tongue when he knows not what He had prayed for to even know if God had answered His prayers?

Matthew 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. 8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

So why would the Holy Spirit be like the heathen in praying as they do in babble nonsense and for a good long time without letting you know what was prayed for?

Since the Father knows before we had asked in prayer, what need for the Holy Spirit to pray for you verbally since not every believer speaks in tongues? Is that not another example of lack of God's love towards every believer? Is not tongues for a prayer life a show of favoritism in the body of Christ apart from other believers that do not speak in tongues?

So tongues for private use is not being manifested by the Holy Spirit because it is not done in Christ's love.

Do you know what God is ? The Fathe , the Son and the Holy Spirit are One.

 

[B-A-C]

How did the utterance came to you through and by the Holy Ghost? At your salvation or at a later time apart from your salvation?

In "EVERY" single instance of this in the Bible, they were separate. There are 5 instances were believers were baptized with the Holy Spirit in the book of Acts,
in all 5 instances, they were believers for some period of time before receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

I understand that this is real to you, but questions will be asked.

How did the utterance came to you through and by the Holy Ghost? At your salvation or at a later time apart from your salvation?



How do you apply the truth in His words that the Holy Spirit cannot speak for Himself, but speaks what He hears in John 16:13 KJV? You can check any modern Bible version and they all share the same truth that the Holy Spirit cannot speak on His own authority or on His own accord or on His own initiative; thus distinctly saying He can only speak what He hears as God's gift of tongues can be for nothing else but be of other men's lips to speak into the people. ( 1 Corinthians 14:21 )

Does that truth testify that He cannot speak for Himself in uttering His own intercessions? Romans 8:26-27 KJV has it right in that the Holy Spirit cannot even utter His groanings in verse 26, which is why the One that searches our hearts is Jesus Christ, the Son of God ( Hebrews 4:12-16 KJV ) is the One that knows the mind of the Spirit in giving His intercessions for Him to the Father because there is only One Mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus ( 1 Timothy 2:5 KJV ). Jesus is the Only One at that throne of grace by Whom we have access to God the Father by ( John 14:6 KJV ) This is why it is in according to the will of God.

Jesus being the only way to come to God the Father and that includes prayer ( John 14:6 KJV ) so that when the Son gives our intercessions and the Spirit's unspeakable intercessions, and His own intercessions to the Father, when the Father says yes to any of those intercessions, only the Son answers the prayers. John 14:13-14 KJV This is done according to the will of God so that the Father may be glorified in the Son for answers to prayers which is why we give thanks to the Father in Jesus's name.

So the Holy Spirit has intercessions for us but He cannot utter them. Jesus knows the mind of the Spirit to give the unspeakable intercessions of the Spirit's to the Father for Him.

That is why I do not believe the tongues today used for "prayer life" is of Him, especially when it is gained as most tongue speakers testify of by a second blessing which is a receiving of the Holy Spirit apart from salvation.



Do you think the disciples at Pentecost had received tongues like a baby's babble in the beginning as well or were they speaking the wonderful works of God in foreign languages to devout Jews from other nations?

Why would God switched the mode for speaking unto the people and have His tongues comes with interpretation in the assembly, suddenly switch the mode in how the Spirit was to use tongues for by turning it around for personal means of uttering His own intercessions which is supposed to be unspeakable, including His groanings? Isn't that confusion? Then God cannot be the author of that tongue.

So believers are to test the spirits and prove the tongues because there is a supernatural tongue in the world which is vain & profane babbling which is not of Him at all as evidence shown in the OP.

I believe in God's gift of tongues which is of other men's lips to speak unto the people. By the scripture and His wisdom in discerning by His words, there is no way the tongues in use today is God's real gift of tongues. There are too many scriptures in the KJV that speaks against the misapplication of His words in 1 Corinthians 14th chapter for trying to justify using tongues privately when ignoring the precedent set in 1 Corinthians 12th chapter that God's gift of tongues were to profit the body withal. 1 Corinthians 12:7 KJV

Remember beloved? How she applied Romans 5:19 out of context of that chapter by ignoring how that shed blood was applied to believers which is by faith in Jesus Christ in Romans 5:1-2 KJV ? The same is being done here when tongue speakers thinks Paul is describing how cool tongue is by itself in 1 Corinthians 12th chapter but ignoring the precedent set for why and how these gifts would be manifested in teh assembly. It cannot be for personal use for then that would be like saying, I am the eye and I have no need of any other body of Christ. Each tongue speaker can hold their own private service by that supernatural tongue for private use which runs against scripture for how those gifts were to profit the body withal.

1 Corinthians 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.............19 And if they were all one member, where were the body? 20 But now are they many members, yet but one body.21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.

So there is just cause to test the spirits and prove the tongues especially since sinners are to be called out of the world and away from their spirits and their kind of supernatural tongue nonsense to abtsian from all appearances of evil.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

So by the scriptures, there is no way I can believe God's gift of tongues can be used privately or as a means for the Holy Spirit to utter His own intercessions when we are to stand apart from the world and especially from the supernatural tongue that is in the world which is vain & profane babbling nonsense and hardly a language at all.

God wants you to pray so that you know what you had prayed for at that throne of grace by way of the Son so that when you receive answers to prayers, you will give genuine thanks to the Father in Jesus's name.

1 Thessalonians 5:17 Pray without ceasing. 18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.

Even in worship.

Ephesians 5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; 20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;

Colossians 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. 17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

Did not Paul argue for someone else to interpret the tongue manifested by the Holy Spirit through himself so that tongue would be fruitful to himself as a tongue speaker?

1 Corinthians 12:6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine? 7 And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped? 8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle? 9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air. 10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification. 11 Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me. 12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church. 13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. 16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest? 17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.

So Paul was exhorting believers that were zealous for spiritual gifts to seek the gift of prophesy over all spiritual gifts and that was his message when he began to compare tongues by itself against the gift of prophesy because tongues is not a stand alone gift that it has to come with interpretation for it to even be fruitful to the tongue speaker.

So the tongue edifies as it is fruitful only when interpreted to the tongue speaker.

If tongues came without interpretation by the practice of having 2 or 3 speak in tongues while another interpret as the same for 2 or 3 prophesy and another judge, someone visiting may stand up and speak out of turn for why there is no interpretation coming and that is why they could tell him to be silent ( 1 Corinthians 14:26-28 ) for he speaks unto himself, meaning he understands what he is saying as God does too but he was speaking in his native foreign tongue which was why interpretation was not coming because his tongue was not manifested by the Holy Spirit.

From the very first verse of that chapter, Paul was giving the message to believers zealous for spiritual gifts to seek the gift of prophesy over all spiritual gifts. 1 Corinthians 14:1 Paul was explaining why by comparing tongues against prophesy because tongues is not a stand lone gift for any one to use, especially for the tongue speaker that needs interpretation for him to understand the tongue for that tongue to be fruitful to himself.

So tongue speakers need to go before that throne of grace and asks the Lord Jesus Christ for help in discerning what has been shared here to discern that kind of tongue cannot be of Him for it is confusion when it without interpretation, especially to the tongue speaker all by himself. In context to that chapter, His gift of tongue can edify the tongue speaker when it comes with interpretation but that is why prophesy is the best gift to seek among all spiritual gifts.

And Paul did not say that to obtain any of those gifts, one has to seek to receive the Holy Spirit apart from salvation for that would be departing from this testimony that all believers were to share and speak the same thing.

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

There is no other filling nor any other calling to be filled by for that would be a departure from the faith for why that tongues does not come with interpretation.

It seems many who do not testify of that other extra encounter still speak the same kind of apostate tongue gained by that apostate calling, and so one has to test the spirits & prove the tongue still in keeping the faith which is the good fight.

The good fight is certainly not defending tongues for private use nor defending that other apostate calling to be filled with the Holy Spirit apart from salvation either.

This kind of study is a result of studying the Word from an intellectual viewpoint...Why not let the Holy Spirit teach you? Every single thing Satan comes up with is a counterfeit of the real thing...Your study only looked at the counterfeit tongues.

 

[Garee]

@Br. Bear

Thank you for your post and kind words. It is really not something I want to argue with anyone. I want what God wants and I know that He is the One who speaks to people's hearts to change them if anyone does. While I usually try to avoid arguing, neither do I want someone young in the Lord to not hear the whole Word of God on a subject when I recognize someone has a strong bias. Not everyone speaks in tongues in their prayer life as I do, but that does not mean they are missing out with God. God works with everyone as He works with them to accomplish what He wants to accomplish with each one. He alone is the judge.

Give God the glory !

I would ask how would that giving God the glory. . effect the “spirit of judgment” shown by those who do make a senseless noise and fall back ward slain by the spirit of judgment?.

It is reflected upon as the law spoken of in 1 Corinthians 14 as to its foundation . Found in Isaiah 28 I think we should look to the foundation of the doctrine. . From my experience many forfeit iit n lieu of an oral tradition of mankind . .

Corinthians 14 :21-22 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

Falling backward slain in the spirit of judgment would seem to mock the judgment .They thought the prophecy given to Peter by which men of other languages other nations men and woman.They heard the gospel and entered the kingdom of faith. They thought the apostles were drunks . You could say the frying pan Ephrain drunks calling the Kettle black


Isaiah 28:1 Look at Samaria! The drunks of Ephraim are proud of that city.It sits on a hill with a rich valley around it.The Samarians think their city is a beautiful crown of flowers But they are drunk with wine, and this “beautiful crown” is just a dying plant.

Isaiah 28 :9-13 The people say, “Who does he think he is trying to teach and explain his message to? Does he think we are babies who were at their mother’s breast only a very short time ago? He speaks to us as though we were babies: “Saw lasaw saw lasaw Qaw laqaw qaw laqaw Ze’er sham ze’er sham.” So God will use this strange way of talking, and he will use other languages to speak to these people. In the past he spoke to them and said, “Here is a resting place. Let those who are tired come and rest. This is the place of peace.” But they would not listen to him. 13 So the Lord’s words will be senseless sounds to them:“Saw lasaw saw lasaw.Qaw laqaw qaw laqaw. Ze’er sham ze’er sham.”

When the people try to walk, they will fall backwards. They will be defeated, trapped, and captured.

Why not rather be raised by the Spirit who works in us ,Why slain falling backawrd ?

 

[Br. Bear]

This kind of study is a result of studying the Word from an intellectual viewpoint...Why not let the Holy Spirit teach you? Every single thing Satan comes up with is a counterfeit of the real thing...Your study only looked at the counterfeit tongues.

Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
1Corinthians 14:19

Greetings,

in order to be fair, i think you will find that the Member who you are replying to ( being @JesusIs4Me ) did do a comprehensive study, which most professing tongue speakers, do not. Most simply go with the flow and not rock-the-boat; few want to actually study this topic from a completely unbiased position to examine Scripture and, nearly all repeat what others have and do say.
The study that most professing tongue speakers generally do, is heavily in favor of supporting their understanding of what they think is 'spiritual'. What we can fail to come to terms with is that common error of reluctance to examine transparently with same same effort and determination that we might study other facets, doctrines or teachings that have and do emerge throughout history.

Having a personal experience does leave one feeling quite convinced about something but that in itself would not hold up to any scrutiny that most would apply to the generalization of such a position... meaning, generally, it is not recommended to go on what we experience as being the definitive truth of anything spiritual.

We also know that simply because the crowd says something, does not automatically give it credit. Yes, we ought to be able to say it does, but in all honesty, we seem to be dual minded, or double minded, or even hypocritical, when it comes to such matters. One law for me and us and what we want to uphold and another for those who present 'ideas' or 'doctrine' with the same claim to validity, namely that of experience and what the crowd says... the crowd i hang out with, anyway.

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Your words, by the way, are somewhat unsubstantiated and judgemental, in a personal way, towards a fellow Member. Please do your best to refrain from further/future personal comments towards fellow Members here or elsewhere on the forums @Admon Mikha'el [ - requested as a Moderator ]
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Post in peace


Bless you ....><>

 

[B-A-C]

Angels on the head of a pin

When I was younger, the question "How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?" typically was a retort to when someone asks a what if question about something that had no definitive answer, and yet people love those questions and are more willing to talk about that than important things or...

www.talkjesus.com

This is somewhat timely and related to the subject at hand.

 

[Bill]

Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
1Corinthians 14:19

Greetings,

in order to be fair, i think you will find that the Member who you are replying to ( being @JesusIs4Me ) did do a comprehensive study, which most professing tongue speakers, do not. Most simply go with the flow and not rock-the-boat; few want to actually study this topic from a completely unbiased position to examine Scripture and, nearly all repeat what others have and do say.
The study that most professing tongue speakers generally do, is heavily in favor of supporting their understanding of what they think is 'spiritual'. What we can fail to come to terms with is that common error of reluctance to examine transparently with same same effort and determination that we might study other facets, doctrines or teachings that have and do emerge throughout history.

Having a personal experience does leave one feeling quite convinced about something but that in itself would not hold up to any scrutiny that most would apply to the generalization of such a position... meaning, generally, it is not recommended to go on what we experience as being the definitive truth of anything spiritual.

We also know that simply because the crowd says something, does not automatically give it credit. Yes, we ought to be able to say it does, but in all honesty, we seem to be dual minded, or double minded, or even hypocritical, when it comes to such matters. One law for me and us and what we want to uphold and another for those who present 'ideas' or 'doctrine' with the same claim to validity, namely that of experience and what the crowd says... the crowd i hang out with, anyway.

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Your words, by the way, are somewhat unsubstantiated and judgemental, in a personal way, towards a fellow Member. Please do your best to refrain from further/future personal comments towards fellow Members here or elsewhere on the forums @Admon Mikha'el [ - requested as a Moderator ]
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Post in peace


Bless you ....><>

God's Love to you always.

You see, i am getting better at giving a blessing to open with .

A month ago i switched semi trucks. Set my Bible in the guest room that turned into a nursery for my daughter. Needless to say, my favorite Bible has been moved and is still in hiding . Lol

^ that is my disclaimer . Lol .

If i recall, Paul talks about the Gifts of the Spirit. His tone on the one " speaking in tongues" does not give an impression with high marks. Infact he goes on to say, he would rather see people having the higher gifts.
Now i am not stating that Speaking in Tongues is not beneficial. The Deliverance experience i spoke of . I specifically had a lady i know pray in tongues while we did the work of deliverance. It didnt matter whether i knew what was being said, what mattered was the persons soul and the fact the prayers had an effect on the spirit.

Also, i know many who find great peace in prayer by Speaking in Tongues as in our own Amadeus2 . He and i have never met . Yet i know him because the Holy Spirit chooses to share with me. ( sorry to call you out ) . I know Bro Bear also speaks in tongues , and there are others here that have the gift but dont use it. Is that wrong , nah . Not at all.
It doesnt really bother me when i hear Speaking in Tongues during a service, as i know those people are one with the Holy Spirit at that time. Just dont try to fake it , or be under the influence of the darkness around me . I will know . And you will be silenced.
To me, it is the way of the Holy Spirit . The Spirit moves in people for a reason. Sometimes we may never know why.
One more thing. The Baptism of Water, and the Baptism of Fire ( Holy Spirit ) are two seperate Baptisms. Do you have to have both to enter Heaven ? No.
For the same reason that God is eternal, and the Laws of the Hebrew Scriptures are just as valad as all that is in the New Testiment.
Jesus stated I have not come to do away with the Old Covenant, but to fulfill the Law.
Jesus stated " no one can go to the Father but through me" He never said you had to recieve the Holy Spirit too.

 

[B-A-C]

Jesus stated " no one can go to the Father but through me" He never said you had to recieve the Holy Spirit too.

John 3:5 ; Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
John 3:6 ; "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:7 ; "Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'

But this does bring up another point... is there a difference between the in-filling of the Holy Spirit, and the Baptism of the holy Spirit?

 

[B-A-C]

One more thing. The Baptism of Water, and the Baptism of Fire ( Holy Spirit ) are two seperate Baptisms. Do you have to have both to enter Heaven ? No.

I would agree with this... IF the in-filling of the Holy Spirit still happens without the baptism.

 

[Bill]

John 3:5 ; Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
John 3:6 ; "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:7 ; "Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'

But this does bring up another point... is there a difference between the in-filling of the Holy Spirit, and the Baptism of the holy Spirit?

There is a difference between being born of the Spirit and being filled with the Holy Spirit.

Being born of the Spirit is like the Centurion who asked Jesus to cure his servant. Or the woman who knew she just needed to touch Jesus to be healed. Or the thief on the cross next to Jesus. ( this is a mistake many Christians make ) Many Christians will say, faith alone, is what saved him. It was not, and the Scripture supports this. " Faith alone is like a gong clanging in the wind " ..

So what is happening , what is taking place that brings the other part into this equation of the man hanging on a cross next to Jesus. " Faith without Love, is like a gong clanging in the wind.

Can you see the love. It is in the form of compassion.

The question you should be asking , in reguards to the Holy Spirit and the Answer is this. Are there more than one way to recieve the Holy Spirit.

No one can go to the Father but through me ( Jesus )

Our God is One.

These are all relevant to your search.

What is the Holy Spirit ? The Holy Spirit is the Union of the Love from the Father to the Son and the Love from the Son to the Father.

When you experience deep love, the Holy Spirit is already present with you.

When the man was dying on a cross next to Jesus, showed compassion to Jesus, it was through the Holy Spirit that he did so.

 

[Bill]

God's Love to you always.

You see, i am getting better at giving a blessing to open with .

A month ago i switched semi trucks. Set my Bible in the guest room that turned into a nursery for my daughter. Needless to say, my favorite Bible has been moved and is still in hiding . Lol

^ that is my disclaimer . Lol .

If i recall, Paul talks about the Gifts of the Spirit. His tone on the one " speaking in tongues" does not give an impression with high marks. Infact he goes on to say, he would rather see people having the higher gifts.
Now i am not stating that Speaking in Tongues is not beneficial. The Deliverance experience i spoke of . I specifically had a lady i know pray in tongues while we did the work of deliverance. It didnt matter whether i knew what was being said, what mattered was the persons soul and the fact the prayers had an effect on the spirit.

Also, i know many who find great peace in prayer by Speaking in Tongues as in our own Amadeus2 . He and i have never met . Yet i know him because the Holy Spirit chooses to share with me. ( sorry to call you out ) . I know Bro Bear also speaks in tongues , and there are others here that have the gift but dont use it. Is that wrong , nah . Not at all.
It doesnt really bother me when i hear Speaking in Tongues during a service, as i know those people are one with the Holy Spirit at that time. Just dont try to fake it , or be under the influence of the darkness around me . I will know . And you will be silenced.
To me, it is the way of the Holy Spirit . The Spirit moves in people for a reason. Sometimes we may never know why.
One more thing. The Baptism of Water, and the Baptism of Fire ( Holy Spirit ) are two seperate Baptisms. Do you have to have both to enter Heaven ? No.
For the same reason that God is eternal, and the Laws of the Hebrew Scriptures are just as valad as all that is in the New Testiment.
Jesus stated I have not come to do away with the Old Covenant, but to fulfill the Law.
Jesus stated " no one can go to the Father but through me" He never said you had to recieve the Holy Spirit too.

I just have to amend this .

Jesus never stated that you have to recieve the Holy Spirit to enter Heaven .

Remember , Jesus told His Apostles, " your names are written in heaven " After the Apostles returned to Jesus and being excited at all they had done.

This was well before the Baptism of the Holy Spirit

 

[B-A-C]

Jesus never stated that you have to recieve the Holy Spirit to enter Heaven .

Remember , Jesus told His Apostles, " your names are written in heaven " After the Apostles returned to Jesus and being excited at all they had done.

This was well before the Baptism of the Holy Spirit

Just because your names are in heaven, doesn't mean that's were you go.
In fact there is no verse in the Bible that says we go to heaven at all.

But I agree with your premise here.
No one was baptized by the Holy Spirit in the OT, yet many saints from the OT will be saved.

 

[Bill]

Just because your names are in heaven, doesn't mean that's were you go.
In fact there is no verse in the Bible that says we go to heaven at all.

But I agree with your premise here.
No one was baptized by the Holy Spirit in the OT, yet many saints from the OT will be saved.

May the Lord fill us with His wisdom

Sure make me dig up where it is in Scripture.

Luke 10:20 names written in heaven
Phil 4:3 book of Life.

So you have Jesus then Paul saying the same thing.

You are correct that the names are not in cement. As we see with Judas. His name was also written in Heaven, but he sold it for 30 pieces of silver

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings Brothers,

is the fruit of the Spirit relevant to this discussion?

Bill, some of what you wrote touched closely to this.

... I warn you, as I did before, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us walk in step with the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying one another.
Galatians 5:22-26

Bless you all ....><>

=============================
and Bill...

God's Love to you always.

You see, i am getting better at giving a blessing to open with .

grace and peace in Christ the Lord

 

[Bill]

Greetings Brothers,

is the fruit of the Spirit relevant to this discussion?

Bill, some of what you wrote touched closely to this.

... I warn you, as I did before, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us walk in step with the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying one another.
Galatians 5:22-26

Bless you all ....><>

=============================
and Bill...

grace and peace in Christ the Lord

The Lord's Peace be ours.

Dear Bro Bear. The answer is Yes. This topic needs some definition as to recieving the Holy Spirit. And that the Baptizm is not the same , as it is an anointing of the Spirit .

The question i think may be redefined, can a person recieve this " Anointing " without recieving the " Laying of Hands " . The answer in my mind is yes, as the laying of hands is a symbol of the transference of Elijah to Elisha.

It is just like the Baptism of Water , most churches repeat the practice of John the Baptist. Yet the Baptism can be done without water as it is a spiritual thing.

Your wedding ring , again is only the symbol of your vows. But the true vows are in the heart.

 

[Br. Bear]

In Whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Colossians 2:11