Did Jesus ever claim to be divine?

[Veracity]

This is very confusing to me.


Jesus is God. God is Jesus.

I know you meant "This is very confusing for me" for the benefit of those who don't quite grasp the importance of this truth, you are not confused at all, are you:wink:.

What a revival it would be if all of His children would see just how much the the Father loves us, to have come in the flesh and show us in fact, He is the only Savior.

In Matthew 27:11 Meanwhile Jesus stood before the governor, and the governor asked him, "Are you the king of the Jews?"
"Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied.


John 14:7 “If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him.”

John 14:8 Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.”

John 14:9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? <SUP id=en-NKJV-26675 class=versenum></SUP>

Jesus did not say the words, "I AM divine", but everything He said says He is I AM, and that is divine.

 

[Giggles4God]

oh no. I know what I believe very well.

To me, Jehovah witnesses are not followers of Jesus.


Also, if Jesus is not God, why do we as Christians pray to Him? It would be breaking one of the commandments if we worship Jesus and He is not God.

Praying to something and worshiping that thing is very close to each other. I can not pray to God if I don't worship Him, if I don't give Him the praise and glory He deserves.

 

[SpiritLedEd]

Did Jesus Ever Claim To Be Divine?

So the question is... Is there evidence within the Gospels that Jesus clearly proclaimed to be divine?

Jesus never said anything like, "Listen up! I'm God!" That could have been construed as a boast, a prideful statement. How could He then chastise His enemies for their pridefulness? However, the thrust of His teachings was so obvious and the evidence so powerful that they couldn't come up with a valid reason for their unbelief.

"The Jews gathered around Him saying, 'How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly.' Jesus answered, 'I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in my Father's name speak for me, but you do not believe because you are not My sheep.'" (Jn 10:24-26 NIV).

SLE

 

[Jaareshiah]

Jesus, in quoting from Deuteronomy 5:9, told Satan: "Go away, Satan! For it is written, ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’”(Matt 4:10)

Later, when Jesus was speaking with the Samaritan woman at the well, told her that "the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshipers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for, indeed, the Father is looking for suchlike ones to worship him. God is a Spirit, and those worshiping him must worship with spirit and truth.”(John 4:23, 24) Even Jesus himself said that he worshiped the Father, for he said to the Samaritan woman: "You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know."(John 4:22)

And when the apostle John fell down to worship an angel, the angel quickly said: "Be careful! Do not do that! All I am is a fellow slave of you and of your brothers who are prophets and of those who are observing the words of this scroll. Worship God.”(Rev 22:9)

 

[Giggles4God]

It seems we go in circles.

You believe what you believe...and I believe what I believe.

I can not make you believe differently, nor you me.

Matthew 1:20-23

20But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

21And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

22Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,

23Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.


Emmanuel, God with us.

Messiah.


I can't begin to understand the belief that Jesus is not God. I can't fathom it.

I guess we have to agree to disagree. No point going in circles on a topic.

I have mentioned this thread to my husband. He is my soundboard and spiritual head of our house. He, too, can not believe what those who say Jesus is not God say.

It is shaky ground to be on.

 

[Jaareshiah]

For many, the thought of Jesus as being God has all they have known and is difficult to think otherwise. Yet, upon a close examination of the Bible, some have come to recognize that Jesus is subservient to God, his Father. When a police investigator examines a crime, he cannot let personal feelings cloud his thinking as to who is guilty or innocent, but must let the evidence speak for itself. Otherwise, justice would be distorted. Likewise of Jesus. For example, the apostle Paul wrote that "that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn the head of a woman is the man; in turn the head of the Christ is God."(1 Cor 11:3)

Since Paul spoke of the headship arrangement, whereby a husband is head of his wife, that Christ is head of the man, and then he says that "the head of the Christ is God", what does that mean ? If God and Christ are God, equal, then this scripture loses meaning, and what Paul wrote is a lie. If this scripture is not completely true, then really none of it is true and therefore what value is the headship principle that Paul was establishing here ? Paul did not write that "the head of every man is the Christ; in turn the head of a woman is the man" and then say that Christ has no head. Rather that Christ has a head, as both the "woman" and the "man" has a head. This scripture was inspired by God to help us to understand headship, with Christ also having someone over him.

In addition, would Jesus have said that he "worships" the Father at John 4:22, 23 if he was God ? This goes contrary to logic, for Nebuchadnezzar said of God, that "there exists no one that can check his hand or that can say to him, ‘What have you been doing ?’ "(Dan 4:35) Hence, God has no head, yet Paul clearly said that Jesus did.
And of the name Immanuel, meaning "With Us is God", God can be with a person or nation representatively.

For instance, when David handed over the kingship to his son Solomon, he told him: "Be courageous and strong and act. Do not be afraid nor be terrified, for Jehovah God, my God, is with you. He will not desert you or leave you until all the work of the service of Jehovah’s house is finished."(1 Chron 28:20) God was not with Solomon literally, but that God's attention was upon Solomon as one who stood up for God, able to see him from his heavenly throne.(Ps 11:4)

To assist one to understand that Jesus was not "God in the flesh", the apostle John wrote that "no man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is in the bosom [position] with the Father is the one that has explained him."(John 1:18; 1 John 4:12) Hence, God was with the nation of Israel as represented by Jesus, for Jesus told the Jews, concerning God: "I have not come of my own initiative, but he that sent me is real, and you do not know him. I know him, because I am a representative from him, and that One sent me forth.” (John 7:28, 29)

 

[Veracity]

“ Now I will rise,” says the LORD; “ Now I will be exalted, Now I will lift Myself up. Isaiah 33:10

The Pharisees therefore said to Him, “You bear witness of Yourself; Your witness is not true.” Jesus answered and said to them, “Even if I bear witness of Myself, My witness is true, for I know where I came from and where I am going; but you do not know where I come from and where I am going. You judge according to the flesh; I judge no one. And yet if I do judge, My judgment is true; for I am not alone, but I am with the Father who sent Me. It is also written in your law that the testimony of two men is true. I am One who bears witness of Myself, and the Father who sent Me bears witness of Me.”
Then they said to Him, “Where is Your Father?”
Jesus answered, “You know neither Me nor My Father. If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also.”


“Now My soul is troubled, and what shall I say? ‘Father, save Me from this hour’? But for this purpose I came to this hour. Father, glorify Your name.”
Then a voice came from heaven, saying, “I have both glorified it and will glorify it again.”
Therefore the people who stood by and heard it said that it had thundered. Others said, “An angel has spoken to Him.”
Jesus answered and said, “This voice did not come because of Me, but for your sake. Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out. And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.” <SUP id=en-NKJV-26610 class=versenum></SUP>
John 12:27-40 But although He had done so many signs before them, they did not believe in Him, that the word of Isaiah the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spoke:

“ Lord, who has believed our report?
And to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?”


Therefore they could not believe, because Isaiah said again:
“ He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts,
Lest they should see with their eyes,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I should heal them.”

“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

“ Am I a God near at hand,” says the LORD, “ And not a God afar off? Can anyone hide himself in secret places, So I shall not see him?” says the LORD;

“Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion! For behold, I am coming and I will dwell in your midst,” says the LORD.

Therefore thus says the LORD: “ I am returning to Jerusalem with mercy; My house shall be built in it,” says the LORD of hosts,

“Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh. Is there anything too hard for Me?

I, even I, am the LORD, And besides Me there is no savior.

Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, And He who formed you from the womb: “ I am the LORD, who makes all things,Who stretches out the heavens all alone, Who spreads abroad the earth by Myself

I am the LORD, and there is no other; There is no God besides Me.

You shall know that I, the LORD, am your Savior And your Redeemer, the Mighty One of Jacob.

All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.


Even at this late date, so many do not recognize the Father of ALL things, ALL flesh, including the flesh He housed. If He had said the word divine, there would still be people who want to dissect Him, and tear Him into pieces.

Who is Jesus? The bible is a complete book, I am amazed so much goes unnoticed. ...pray He would reveal Himself to you, just in case you don't know all of who He is.

 

[Greatness4life]

Little can we fathom with our narrow mind.

The truth needs not to be debate on. The truth speaks for Himself often in secret so that it will take revelation for one to see Him.

Isaiah said: ''You are God that hideth Yourself from Your creation''. God indeed enjoy that, so as to confound the wisdom of men.

How can you say Jesus is God when you don't have the revelation of Him? For no one can say Jesus Christ is the Lord except by the Spirit. Yea, one can say it literally but until the dawning of that revelation come unto you, you will not understand what it means.

For you to understand who Christ is, then you need a revelation from Him. Our shallow and narrow mind can never comprehend the depths of Christ. The things of God are not meant to be understood by our brain rather it is by His Spirit. They cannot be explain by logic but by the Spirit

consider what Stephen did when He was being stoned:

Acts 7:59-60;

And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.

60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep

Hope you are able to see that. Stephen was calling upon God by saying: Lord Jesus receive my spirit.

Eccl 12:7:

Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it

Does these two scripture contradict? Where was the spirit suppose to return to? Is it not to God? Who gave the spirit? Is it not God? who received the spirit of Stephen? Is it not Jesus? Who was Stephen calling upon as God? Is it not Jesus?

One more scripture:

Matt 28:19;

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.

This one of the scripture that is often misquoted by people. The name here is singular not plural, which means that the name of the father is the same thing as the name of the son and also the Holy Ghost.

So what is there name? Simply JESUS

What about the application of that scripture? Consider in whose name the disciple baptized those that believed.

Acts 2:38;

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost

Acts 10:48

And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days

What is the name of the Lord? Is it no Jesus?

Acts 19:5

When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Those are the little scriptures passages I can show to you. The application of the Matthew 28:19 are what you saw in those verses.

But you cannot understand all these unless, they are revealed to you from above.

We need not to argue on this rather let's turn to the Lord and drop our theology and teachings, so that He Himself can teach us who He really is.
I'm very sure that, if you will turn to Him and ask Him to show you WHO HE IS, He will gladly do.

Jesus is my God: For the Lord my God is One not TRINITY.


Come quickly, Lord Jesus.

 

[Jaareshiah]

Hello Greatness4life,

The account at Acts 7:59, 60, whereby Stephen is seen appealing to Jesus to "receive my spirit" does not include the word "God". The King James Version says that Stephen was “calling upon God.”

Understandably, then, many draw the conclusion reached by Bible commentator Matthew Henry, who said: “Stephen here prays to Christ, and so must we.” However, that viewpoint is erroneous. Why ?

Barnes’ Notes on the New Testament makes this honest admission: “The word God is not in the original, and should not have been in the translation. It is in none of the ancient [manuscripts] or versions.”

How did the word “God” come to be inserted into that verse? Scholar Abiel Abbot Livermore called this “an instance of the sectarian biases of the translators.” Most modern translations, therefore, eliminate this spurious reference to God.

The interlinear, the Emphatic Diaglott, by Benjamin Wilson, reads at Acts 7:59: "and they stoned the Stephen, calling upon and saying; O Lord Jesus, do thou receive the breath of me." The Greek master text and interlinear by B. F. Westcott and F. J. A. Hort, The New Testament in the Original Greek, reads: "And they were throwing stones at the Stephen, calling upon and saying Lord Jesus, receive the spirit of me." And the online interlinear, Scripture4all, reads: "And they-stone-cast the Stephen on-calling and saying Master ! Jesus ! receive the spirit of-me." Thus, the word "God" is not in the most ancient Greek manuscripts, but was wrongfully inserted in later Greek manuscripts to support the trinity.

And of anyone coming to understand who Jesus Christ is, a revelation is not needed, for the apostle Paul, quoting from Isaiah 40:13, said: "For “who has come to know the mind of Jehovah, that he may instruct him?” and then says: "But we do have the mind of Christ."(1 Cor 2:16) Thus, any reasoning person can readily grasp who Jesus is and in fact, must put on the "new personality" patterned after Jesus perfect example."(Eph 4:20-24) It is through Jesus Christ that his heavenly Father is "explained".(John 1:18)

 

[shipwrecksoul]

Act 7:56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

Act 7:56 AndG2532 said,G2036 Behold,G2400 I seeG2334 theG3588 heavensG3772 opened,G455 andG2532 theG3588 SonG5207 of manG444 standingG2476 onG1537 the right handG1188 of God.G2316

G2316
θεός
theos
theh'-os
Of uncertain affinity; a deity, especially (with G3588) the supreme Divinity; figuratively a
And yes the Father revealed to shmagistrate; by Hebraism very: - X exceeding, God, god [-ly, -ward].

Should we believe strongs? Yes!The Greek master text and interlinear by B. F. Westcott and F. J. A. Hort, The New Testament in the Original Greek, They are only original because they only use the sinaiticus and vaticanus texts cranked out in the year 300 AD. Meaning they are not using manuscripts of divine authority they are using corrupt alexandrian texts.

Oh by the way did Jesus ever claimed to be divine? The answer is yes!

 

[Greatness4life]

Well, thank you Jaareshiah for what you posted. The only thing I have to say is this: What a man has not seen, touched or experienced can quickly be erase by what people say or think should be the right thing but, what a man has touched, experienced and found out to be truth, No one on earth and in heaven can take it from him no matter the level of their logic and doctrines.

I came to know Christ not by studying and reading some theological books neither do I know Him by reading the Bible but by having a relationship with Him. When The Lord was living the earth He gave us nothing not even a Bible but He gave us a Person-The Holy-Spirit. That is Who I know and His the one teaching me in the truth.

Whatever I post here by His grace, they are not as a result of my diligent in reading and studying of the Bible neither by searching the net for some truth but, they are what I have touched, seen and experienced in His present. Whatever a man says doesn't matters, what I heard from Him is the final.

So this is my faith: Jesus is not only My savior and Lord but, indeed HE IS MY GOD.

Come quickly, Lord Jesus.

 

[shipwrecksoul]

Where is the God of Abraham Issac and Jacob? Where is he? Im lost and need you oh God. Please send your guidance for I cannot see. I am alone and seek you. i do not understand your ways. Please reveal them to me for I am of need of you. Please I beg of you. I dont know much. But if you will show me I will serve you with my whole heart! If you show me your ways I will call on you. Please show me for I am of need of you!

If this was the prayer from your heart not even the devil himself can keep God from answering you on him telling you who he is in your heart.
Please if your on this thread reading this please take the time to ask God for his will to be revealed to you. Jesus, God the Son, can and will save you! Nothing but nothing can stop him from saving you! This is why he was sent from heaven, to be your Savior. For you see Jesus is here to save you right now! Today you can call on him as Lord.

 

[TallTexan89]

I truly thank all yall for your responses. It has been great food for thought and have been given more than enough evidence. God bless yall in the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[yort]

In the Gospels

Troy a servant of God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Hey, when I heard this I was compelled to find your post and put this information down. It was very overwhelming to me, so I thought that I would share it.

John 5:19, "Then answered Jesus and said unto them...that is, to the Jews...'Truly, truly I say unto you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever things He does, these also do the Son in the same manner." In other words, Jesus says, "What you see Me doing is exactly what God can do." Now that is a monumental claim, frankly. Verse 20, "For the Father loveth the Son and showeth Him all things that He Himself doeth; and He will show Him greater works than these, that you may marvel." In other words, Jesus says, "Look, what I'm doing is what only God can do."...Should make you marvel.

Verse 36 of the same chapter, "But I have greater witness than that of John. There's a greater testimony than that of John the Baptist, and it is the works which the Father has given Me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of Me that the Father hath sent Me." How did He manifest deity? Through not only what He said, but even more so through what He did. His miraculous supernatural creative power. Only God can create, and the miracles of Jesus were creative miracles.
In John chapter 10 and verse 25, we find it again. "Jesus answered them...and again it's the Jews...'I told you. That is, I spoke and you believed not. You didn't believe what I said. You didn't believe My words. The works that I do in My Father's name or My Father's power, they bear witness of Me. You deny My sayings, but how can you deny My works?" Verse 32, "Jesus answered them, 'Many good works have I shown you from My Father. For which of these works do you stone Me?'" Sarcasm. "It's obvious these have been supernatural. For which of them do you stone Me?"

Verse 37, "If I do not the works of My Father, believe Me not. If I can't do what God can do, don't believe Me. If I can't show you that I'm God, then don't believe it. But if I do, though you believe not Me, that is, what I say, believe the works...that you may know and believe that the Father is in Me, and I in Him." Chapter 14 verse 10, essentially says the same thing. "Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me?" In other words, in John 14:10, He is saying, "You don't believe that I and God are One? You have a problem with that? The words that I speak unto you, I speak not of Myself, and the Father that dwells in me, he doeth the works. Believe... literally...My words that I'm in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the very works' sake."...

Chapter 15, you have the same thing in verse 24. "If I had not done among them the works which no other man did, they had not had sin, that is, the sin of rejection; but now they have both seen and hated both Me and My Father. They saw it. They couldn't deny it was God, and they have manifested that they not only hate Me, but they hate God." See, that's the issue of the Gospel of John. See the miracles? Conclude that He's God, and that is even stated as the purpose of the book in chapter 20 verse 30. John 20 verse 30, key statement, "And many other signs or wonders or miracles truly did Jesus in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book." John says, "I've only give you a sampling, like Matthew. It's just a sampling. Many others were done. Why? These are written that you might believe that Jesus is the Christ." These what are written? These signs, these miracles, and that you, "believing, might have life through His name."

You see. John's whole thesis is to present the miracles of Jesus as the affirmation of His deity, so that men might know and believe and be redeemed. Now go back to Matthew 8 and find that is exactly Matthew's purpose, as well. These are the credentials of the King. This is the proof that He is divine. Now, by the way, it comes at a very strategic point in the Gospel of Matthew, because Jesus has just delivered a blistering sermon in chapters 5, 6, and 7. He has literally turned their religious world topsy-turvy. He has told them, in effect, that their teaching is wrong, and their living is wrong. Their attitude is wrong... everything they stand for, believe in, and hope for is wrong; and He never bothered to quote any rabbis or any of their well-known sources. He just repeatedly says, matter of factly, absolutely, dogmatically, "This is the truth." In fact, repeatedly, He said, "You have heard it said, but I say. You have heard it said, but I say." And over and over and over, He kept saying that, and when He was all finished, in verse 28, "It came to pass...chapter 7 verse 28...that when He ended these sayings, the people were astonished at His teaching...Why? Verse 29...for He taught them as one having authority, not like the scribes."

Amen--------------------------------Troy

 

[RJ]

Jesus andGod Are One And The Same

Amen--------------------------------Troy <!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

John 14: 8-9 NRSV

"Philip said to him, "Lord show us the Father, and we shall be satisfied." Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long and yet you do not know me, Phillip? He who has seen me has seen the Father; how can you say show us the Father?"

The Apostles and some others knew Jesus was God. That is why at Stephen's ,death by stoning, He looked up into the heavens, calling Jesus Lord and asked Him to reieve his spirit.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

Yes,he said he is de vine and we are de branches.

 

[Travis]

Yes,he said he is de vine and we are de branches.

and 'He'd love to get you through it if you'd give him a chance.'

 

[B-A-C]

Rev 1:8; "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."
Of course it's Jesus speaking here.

Rev 1:17; When I saw Him, I fell at His feet like a dead man. And He placed His right hand on me, saying, "Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last,
Rev 1:18; and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades.

John 8:58; Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am." (see Exod 3:14; for the significance of that statement).

John 14:7; "If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him."
John 14:8; Philip *said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us."
John 14:9; Jesus *said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?

Rev 22:13; "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."

John 20:28; Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"
John 20:29; Jesus *said to him, "Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed."

 

[Strypes]

and 'He'd love to get you through it if you'd give him a chance.'

So keep doing your best and pray that it's blessed and He will take care of the rest... He is going to do it.. Yeah He will take care of the rest...

Strypes <<<=== loves Keith Green's music!

 

[Chad]

@TallTexan89

John 1:1, 14 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God . . . 14And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth."

John 20:28-29, "Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!" 29 Jesus said to him, "Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed."

Heb 1:8, "But of the Son He says, 'Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the righteous scepter is the scepter of His kingdom.'"

Matthew 3:17 - At Jesus' baptism, the Father spoke from heaven saying, "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Matthew 17:5 - At the Transfiguration the Father again spoke from heaven saying, "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." He said this is why we should listen to Jesus. Both of these occasions were witnessed by other people, and in both cases Jesus accepted the statements without objection.

Matthew 16:13-17 - As it is today, some people in Jesus' lifetime thought that He was just a prophet. But in contrast, Peter confessed Jesus to be the Christ, the Son of the Living God. Rather than rebuking Peter, Jesus said that the Father Himself had revealed this to Peter

John 4:25; When the Samaritan woman suggested that Jesus might be the Messiah (Christ), Jesus directly acknowledged that was who He was.

John 9:35-37 - He told a blind man He had healed that He was the Son of God.

Matthew 26:63-66 - During His trial in the presence of His enemies, Jesus acknowledged that He was the Christ, the Son of God.

Jesus also allowed various people to make such claims for Him on other occasions: Matthew 14:33; John 11:27; 1:29, 34, 49; 6:69.