Did Jesus go to hell?

[B-A-C]

Controversial verses.

1Pet 3:18; For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;
1Pet 3:19; in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison,
1Pet 3:20; who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water.

Which spirits in which prison? Some say these are the dead who were in Sheol.

Eph 4:8; Therefore it says, "WHEN HE ASCENDED ON HIGH, HE LED CAPTIVE A HOST OF CAPTIVES, AND HE GAVE GIFTS TO MEN."
Eph 4:9; (Now this expression, "He ascended," what does it mean except that He also had descended into the lower parts of the earth?
Eph 4:10; He who descended is Himself also He who ascended far above all the heavens, so that He might fill all things.)

The main argument against this passage, is that it is in parenthesis, meaning that it isn't any of the original manuscripts, but was added later.
Some Bibles such as the NLT simply say Jesus came to Earth, not "the lower parts of the earth".

Eph 4:9 NLT; Notice that it says “he ascended.” This clearly means that Christ also descended to our lowly world.
Eph 4:9 KJV (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

Col 2:13; You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins.
Col 2:14; He canceled the record of the charges against us and took it away by nailing it to the cross.
Col 2:15; In this way, he disarmed the spiritual rulers and authorities. He shamed them publicly by his victory over them on the cross.

Now this gets into the story of Lazarus and Sheol, and where Paradise or where Abraham's Bosom is.

Sheol was shaped like a "T". Abaraham's Bosom is on one side. Hades is on the other side. A big chasm of canyon is between them.

Some say Jesus only went to the "Abaraham's Bosom" or "Paradise" side of Sheol, and did not go to the Hades part of Sheol.

He only led the captives free that were in Paradise or Abraham's Bosom, He didn't lead any captives free from Hades.

Harrowing of Hell - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

1Pet 4:6; That is why the Good News was preached to those who are now dead—so although they were destined to die like all people, they now live forever with God in the Spirit.

Matt 12:40; For as Jonah was in the belly of the great fish for three days and three nights, so will the Son of Man be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights.
Acts 2:31; David was looking into the future and speaking of the Messiah’s resurrection. He was saying that God would not leave him among the dead or allow his body to rot in the grave.
The King James and Amplified put Acts 2:31; like this...
(KJV) He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

Which seems to say Jesus went there, but didn't stay there. Some say this is where He received the keys.
Rev 1:18; and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades.

Heb 2:9; But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.
Heb 2:14; Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Heb 2:15; And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

 

[Rhema]

Controversial verses.

Yep. People make up all kinds of nonsense.

I think this is what led to the Catholic Magisterium.

 

[Rhema]

Eph 4:8; Therefore it says, "WHEN HE ASCENDED ON HIGH, HE LED CAPTIVE A HOST OF CAPTIVES, AND HE GAVE GIFTS TO MEN."
Eph 4:9; (Now this expression, "He ascended," what does it mean except that He also had descended into the lower parts of the earth?
Eph 4:10; He who descended is Himself also He who ascended far above all the heavens, so that He might fill all things.)

The main argument against this passage, is that it is in parenthesis, meaning that it isn't any of the original manuscripts, but was added later.
Some Bibles such as the NLT simply say Jesus came to Earth, not "the lower parts of the earth".

Eph 4:9 NLT; Notice that it says “he ascended.” This clearly means that Christ also descended to our lowly world.
Eph 4:9 KJV (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

All this modern re-shifting of meaning bothers me a lot, in that anyone with a background of the classics should know that κατωτερα μερη της γης means "underworld."

He descended into the underworld.

Rhema

Now of course that might just mean only the grave instead of Hades, but ... people shouldn't be changing the words.

 

[KingJ]

Luke 16:19-31 is also needed to shed light on this topic.

Abraham explained to the rich man that he had no hope of escape. Both rich man and Lazarus in prison in Sheol. Yet the rich man in a hell and Lazarus in Abraham's bosom. A place in Sheol, that was more pleasant.

This is why it is logical to believe Jesus cleaned Abraham's bosom out and not the hellish side of Sheol.

The difference between the rich man and Lazarus would have been repentance of sin. God will never despise anyone who truthfully repents of their sin Psalm 51:17.

 

[Charlie24]

Controversial verses.

1Pet 3:18; For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;
1Pet 3:19; in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison,
1Pet 3:20; who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water.

Which spirits in which prison? Some say these are the dead who were in Sheol.

Eph 4:8; Therefore it says, "WHEN HE ASCENDED ON HIGH, HE LED CAPTIVE A HOST OF CAPTIVES, AND HE GAVE GIFTS TO MEN."
Eph 4:9; (Now this expression, "He ascended," what does it mean except that He also had descended into the lower parts of the earth?
Eph 4:10; He who descended is Himself also He who ascended far above all the heavens, so that He might fill all things.)

The main argument against this passage, is that it is in parenthesis, meaning that it isn't any of the original manuscripts, but was added later.
Some Bibles such as the NLT simply say Jesus came to Earth, not "the lower parts of the earth".

Eph 4:9 NLT; Notice that it says “he ascended.” This clearly means that Christ also descended to our lowly world.
Eph 4:9 KJV (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

Col 2:13; You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins.
Col 2:14; He canceled the record of the charges against us and took it away by nailing it to the cross.
Col 2:15; In this way, he disarmed the spiritual rulers and authorities. He shamed them publicly by his victory over them on the cross.

Now this gets into the story of Lazarus and Sheol, and where Paradise or where Abraham's Bosom is.

Sheol was shaped like a "T". Abaraham's Bosom is on one side. Hades is on the other side. A big chasm of canyon is between them.

Some say Jesus only went to the "Abaraham's Bosom" or "Paradise" side of Sheol, and did not go to the Hades part of Sheol.

He only led the captives free that were in Paradise or Abraham's Bosom, He didn't lead any captives free from Hades.

Harrowing of Hell - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

1Pet 4:6; That is why the Good News was preached to those who are now dead—so although they were destined to die like all people, they now live forever with God in the Spirit.

Matt 12:40; For as Jonah was in the belly of the great fish for three days and three nights, so will the Son of Man be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights.
Acts 2:31; David was looking into the future and speaking of the Messiah’s resurrection. He was saying that God would not leave him among the dead or allow his body to rot in the grave.
The King James and Amplified put Acts 2:31; like this...
(KJV) He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

Which seems to say Jesus went there, but didn't stay there. Some say this is where He received the keys.
Rev 1:18; and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades.

Heb 2:9; But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.
Heb 2:14; Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Heb 2:15; And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

There are many things that must be understood to unravel this topic. If you're looking to nail down every detail of any given Scriptural topic with direct Scripture verses, you may as well delete this thread and go about your business, game over, it's not going to happen!

The scholars take all related Scripture, put them together, and with common sense begin the breakdown process.

In general consensus most agree that Christ went to Hades, understanding that Hades has 2 compartments, one for the righteous dead, and one for the unrighteous dead. What most want to know is why did Christ go there, why did He preach, who did He preach to, what did He preach.

All of this is found in the flow of Scripture, but not by nail down Scripture verses, it's found by understanding the broader view of God's plan vs the plan of Satan. this takes us all the way back to the Garden of Eden to find those plans.

When all of this is unraveled it would be considered a book, anything short of this leads to misunderstanding. So with all that's required to understand and the length of explaining, it's almost impossible to rightly divide the Word in this forum atmosphere.

 

[Charlie24]

There are many things that must be understood to unravel this topic. If you're looking to nail down every detail of any given Scriptural topic with direct Scripture verses, you may as well delete this thread and go about your business, game over, it's not going to happen!

The scholars take all related Scripture, put them together, and with common sense begin the breakdown process.

In general consensus most agree that Christ went to Hades, understanding that Hades has 2 compartments, one for the righteous dead, and one for the unrighteous dead. What most want to know is why did Christ go there, why did He preach, who did He preach to, what did He preach.

All of this is found in the flow of Scripture, but not by nail down Scripture verses, it's found by understanding the broader view of God's plan vs the plan of Satan. this takes us all the way back to the Garden of Eden to find those plans.

When all of this is unraveled it would be considered a book, anything short of this leads to misunderstanding. So with all that's required to understand and the length of explaining, it's almost impossible to rightly divide the Word in this forum atmosphere.

Basically, what I'm trying to say, if you don't understand from the beginning God's purpose and plan for sending the Messiah into the world, and at the same time understand Satan's purpose and plan in his many attempts throughout the OT Scripture to stop the Messiah from coming into this world, you will never find the truth!

We are captives to Christ or Satan--period! Paul often opened his epistles with "Paul, the captive of Jesus Christ" to set himself apart from the captives of Satan.

So much to discuss on this topic to even begin breaking it down.

 

[B-A-C]

Acts 2:31
(AMPC) He, foreseeing this, spoke [by foreknowledge] of the resurrection of the Christ (the Messiah) that He was not deserted [in death] and left in Hades (the state of departed spirits), nor did His body know decay or see destruction. [Psa_16:10]
(ASV) he foreseeing this spake of the resurrection of the Christ, that neither was he left unto Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption.
(BSB) Foreseeing this, David spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that He was not abandoned to Hades, nor did His body see decay.
(CSB) Seeing what was to come, he spoke concerning the resurrection of the Messiah: He was not abandoned in Hades, and his flesh did not experience decay.
(ESV) he foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption.
(Greek NT BYZ+) προιδωνG4275 V-2AAP-NSM ελαλησενG2980 V-AAI-3S περιG4012 PREP τηςG3588 T-GSF αναστασεωςG386 N-GSF τουG3588 T-GSM χριστουG5547 N-GSM οτιG3754 CONJ ουG3756 PRT-N κατελειφθηG2641 V-API-3S ηG3588 T-NSF ψυχηG5590 N-NSF αυτουG846 P-GSM ειςG1519 PREP αδουG86 N-GSM ουδεG3761 CONJ-N ηG3588 T-NSF σαρξG4561 N-NSF αυτουG846 P-GSM ειδενG3708 V-2AAI-3S διαφθορανG1312 N-ASF
(HCSB) Seeing this in advance, he spoke concerning the resurrection of the Messiah: He was not left in Hades, and His flesh did not experience decay.
(ISV) he looked ahead and spoke about the resurrection of the Messiah: 'He was not abandoned to Hades, and his flesh did not experience decay.'
(KJV) He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
(MKJV) seeing this beforehand, he spoke of the resurrection of Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor would His flesh see corruption,
(NAS77) he looked ahead and spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, that HE WAS NEITHER ABANDONED TO HADES, NOR DID His flesh SUFFER DECAY.
(NAS95) he looked ahead and spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, that HE WAS NEITHER ABANDONED TO HADES, NOR DID His flesh SUFFER DECAY.
(NIrV) David saw what was ahead. So he spoke about the Christ rising from the dead. He said that the Christ would not be left in the grave. His body wouldn't rot in the ground.
(NIV) Seeing what was to come, he spoke of the resurrection of the Messiah, that he was not abandoned to the realm of the dead, nor did his body see decay.
(NKJV) he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption.
(NLT) David was looking into the future and speaking of the Messiah’s resurrection. He was saying that God would not leave him among the dead or allow his body to rot in the grave.
(RV) he foreseeing this spake of the resurrection of the Christ, that neither was he left in Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption.

The Greek word for Hades here is... "hades". Which is still ambiguous, as it could include all of Sheol, or only a part of Sheol.
Most modern Bibles do not have the word "sheol" in the New Testament anywhere. The King James does not have the word "sheol" in it at all, but typically translates
sheol as hell, the pit or the grave.

ᾅδης
hadēs; perh. from 1 (as a neg. pref.) and 3708; Hades, the place of the dead:—
Hades(10).

Acts 2:31; is generally taken to be a quote of...

Psa 16:10 KJV; For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Most modern Bibles leave this as "sheol".

Psa 16:10 NASB; For You will not abandon my soul to Sheol; Nor will You allow Your Holy One to undergo decay.

 

[B-A-C]

Psalms 139:8
(AMPC) If I ascend up into heaven, You are there; if I make my bed in Sheol (the place of the dead), behold, You are there. [Rom_11:33]
(AMPC+) If I ascend up into heaven, You are there; if I make my bed in Sheol (the place of the dead), behold, You are there. [Rom_11:33]
(ASV) If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: If I make my bed in Sheol, behold, thou art there.
(BSB) If I ascend to the heavens, You are there; if I make my bed in Sheol, You are there.
(CSB) If I go up to heaven, you are there; if I make my bed in Sheol, you are there.
(ESV) If I ascend to heaven, you are there! If I make my bed in Sheol, you are there!
(ESV+) R26If I ascend to heaven, you are there! R1If I make my bed in Sheol, you are there!
(HCSB) If I go up to heaven, You are there; if I make my bed in Sheol, You are there.
(Hebrew OT+) אםH518 אסקH5266 שׁמיםH8064 שׁםH8033 אתהH859 ואציעהH3331 שׁאולH7585 הנך׃H2005
(ISV) If I rise to heaven, there you are! If I lay down with the dead, there you are!
(KJV) If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
(KJV+) IfH518 I ascend upH5266 into heaven,H8064 thouH859 art there:H8033 if I make my bedH3331 in hell,H7585 behold,H2009 thou art there.
(MKJV) If I go up into Heaven, You are there; if I make my bed in Sheol, behold, You are there.
(NAS77) If I ascend to heaven, Thou art there; If I make my bed in Sheol, behold, Thou art there.
(NAS95) If I ascend to heaven, You are there; If I make my bed in Sheol, behold, You are there.
(NAS95+) R1IfH518 I ascendH5559a to heavenH8064, You are thereH8033; If I makeH3331 my bedH3331 in N1SheolH7585, beholdH2009, R2You are there.
(NIrV) If I go up to the heavens, you are there. If I lie down in the deepest parts of the earth, you are also there.
(NIV) If I go up to the heavens, you are there; if I make my bed in the depths, you are there.
(NKJV) If I ascend into heaven, You are there; If I make my bed in hell, behold, You are there.
(NLT) If I go up to heaven, you are there; if I go down to the grave, you are there.
(RV) If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in Sheol, behold, thou art there.

Psa 139:7; Where can I go from Your Spirit? Or where can I flee from Your presence?
Psa 139:8; If I ascend to heaven, You are there; If I make my bed in Sheol, behold, You are there.

Which seems to say, that even if Jesus's physical body never went there, God ( at least His Spirit ) is present in hell already anyway.

Rev 14:10; he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.

The verse above appears to be more about the Lake of Fire, than hades/hell specifically. But either way, it says Jesus will be there.
These verses seem to debunk the idea that hell is just "separation from God".

 

[KingJ]

Basically, what I'm trying to say, if you don't understand from the beginning God's purpose and plan for sending the Messiah into the world, and at the same time understand Satan's purpose and plan in his many attempts throughout the OT Scripture to stop the Messiah from coming into this world, you will never find the truth!

We are captives to Christ or Satan--period! Paul often opened his epistles with "Paul, the captive of Jesus Christ" to set himself apart from the captives of Satan.

So much to discuss on this topic to even begin breaking it down.

Good points Charlie, but what exactly are you saying? Do you disagree with something that has been said?

What is your nutshell interpretation considering all of scripture?

 

[Charlie24]

Good points Charlie, but what exactly are you saying? Do you disagree with something @B-A-C or I have said?

No, I don't disagree with what's said, but with the approach in order to find the answers.

It will take much more than posting Scripture and trying to interpret it.

It's a concept that involves the entirety of Scripture and must be approached in that manner.

 

[Charlie24]

No, I don't disagree with what's said, but with the approach in order to find the answers.

It will take much more than posting Scripture and trying to interpret it.

It's a concept that involves the entirety of Scripture and must be approached in that manner.

It's like a movie critic watching the last 10 minutes of a movie and trying to give a review.

It can't be done that way. It takes close attention to the entire movie to see clearly for the review.

 

[Rhema]

This is why it is logical to believe Jesus cleaned Abraham's bosom out and not the hellish side of Sheol.

It was a parable, @KingJ

Just a parable.

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

The scholars take all related Scripture, put them together, and with common sense begin the breakdown process.

That's the rub... they need to be related.

You tend to take unrelated scripture verses, stitch them together and weave a fantastic... something.

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

understanding that Hades has 2 compartments, one for the righteous dead, and one for the unrighteous dead.

And there it is... the fantastic... something.

The living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no more reward, and even the memory of them is lost.​

(Ecclesiastes 9:5 NRSV)​

(It was just a parable.)
Rhema

 

[Rhema]

this takes us all the way back to the Garden of Eden to find those plans.

Okay... you now have me seriously curious.

What might those plans be?

It's an open an honest question.

Rhema
(Please do start a thread and let me know.)

Uh... you're not a "Serpent Seed" believer are you?

 

[Rhema]

Most modern Bibles do not have the word "sheol" in the New Testament anywhere.

Uh... that might be because the word Sheol is not written in the New Testament anywhere.

The BEST one can do at all is make the connection between Sheol and Hades because the LXX uses the word Hades where Sheol is found.

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

understanding that Hades has 2 compartments, one for the righteous dead, and one for the unrighteous dead.

The ONLY connection between Sheol and Hades is that the Septuagint uses Hades everywhere Sheol is mentioned.

Can you show that there are 2 compartments to Sheol in the OT?

No, ... you can't.

This is why I've been saying that you make connections where there aren't any.

Rhema

(( Dear Lord, now somebody is going to try and tell me that Abraham's Bosom is a neighborhood in Hades...))

 

[Charlie24]

That's the rub... they need to be related.

You tend to take unrelated scripture verses, stitch them together and weave a fantastic... something.

Rhema

You know, Rhema, when the ignore button was created for the talk forums, they had you in mind!

 

[Rhema]

You know, Rhema, when the ignore button was created for the talk forums, they had you in mind!

Well then don't say crap and insult people when you can't actually explain or support your position.

This is exactly why @Admon Mikha'el expects you to run away.

And I AM seriously interested in what you mean by "Satan's Plans" in Genesis.

Rhema
(But if you can't hack it, then by all means, hit the ignore button. I'm not here to hold hands and sing Kum-ba-yah.)

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

You know, Rhema, when the ignore button was created for the talk forums, they had you in mind!

Charlie That was a nasty thing to say. Rhema is asking questioons and making opinions with an openness to learning. You make statements, make accusations and judgments against other Christians and give absolutely no proof of what you claim is true...Who are you to judge anybody or any thing?