Do Christians go to Heaven?

[Rockerduck]

I understand your point. For an example, I don't know if you've watched the series The Chosen. The series has many things that are not found in Scripture. Some won't watch it because of that. But ask yourself, is it possible to make a Biblical movie on just what's written in Scripture without filling in the blanks? That would be a very confusing movie given only the information found in Scripture, and maybe an impossible task.

Likewise, what prompted Christ to say "no one has ascended into heaven except He who came down from heaven?" Some will say don't add to the Scripture, and others will immediately wonder why Christ said this and go through the context to understand why.

I'm the curious one, I'm going to the context to find why Christ said this to Nicodemus.

The 1979 Jesus movie is based on the Gospel of Luke. It is called "The Jesus Movie" Its free to watch on Youtube and has been viewed over a billion times. It is more widely watched than the Chosen ever will be.

 

[Charlie24]

The 1979 Jesus movie is based on the Gospel of Luke. It is called "The Jesus Movie" Its free to watch on Youtube and has been viewed over a billion times. It is more widely watched than the Chosen ever will be.

There are lapses of time between the chapters of the Gospels. What happened is unknown.

Only the Gospel of John covers 3 separate Passovers, that's how we know Christ' ministry lasted app. 3 1/2 years.

To make a movie those time gaps have to be filled with something. Maybe your best guess within context.

 

[Rhema]

Thought y'all might like this:

 

[Butch5]

John 12:9; The large crowd of the Jews then learned that He was there; and they came, not for Jesus' sake only, but that they might also see Lazarus, whom He raised from the dead.
John 12:10; But the chief priests planned to put Lazarus to death also;
John 12:11; because on account of him many of the Jews were going away and were believing in Jesus.

On a somewhat unrelated side-note here. It's amazing to me, how far some "religious" people will go in order to protect or prevent a certain doctrine.

Some Roman Catholics call Mary the "Queen of Heaven". But is she really even in heaven?

Prov 30:4; Who has ascended into heaven and descended? Who has gathered the wind in His fists? Who has wrapped the waters in His garment? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is His name or His son's name? Surely you know!
John 3:13; "No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.

There are no verses of Scripture that say people go to Heaven

 

[Rhema]

There are lapses of time between the chapters of the Gospels. What happened is unknown.

Hi Charlie,

I think what happened is pretty well documented.

(Matthew 4:23 KJV)

And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.​

(Matthew 9:35 KJV)

And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people.​

(Luke 8:1 KJV)

And it came to pass afterward, that he went throughout every city and village, preaching and shewing the glad tidings of the kingdom of God: and the twelve were with him,​

(Luke 9:6 KJV)

And they departed, and went through the towns, preaching the gospel, and healing every where.​

Rhema

 

[KingJ]

@B-A-C

Hi, late to the thread. I just want to gain a proper understanding of what you believe.

1. Do you believe Christians / righteous people go to paradise and not heaven when they die? This from Adam and Eve to when?

2. Do you believe some are in Paradise, Hades and some are or will in the future be in neither, AKA sleeping in their grave?

3. How do you define heaven?

 

[KingJ]

Luke 23:43 And Jesus said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise."

Paradise was Abrahams bosom. Jesus was going there. He was only raised to heaven on the third day. This verse does not debunk us going to heaven.

 

[Curtis]

This seems to say we will dwell with God forever in the New Jerusalem, not heaven.

Heb 12:22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels,

 

[Curtis]

All born-again believers live in two different realms at the same time, on Earth, and in Christ who is sitting on the right hand of God in Heavenly places.

Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.


The throne of Grace is not on planet Earth, but we have the ability to get there in the Spirit.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

When Jesus said that, He had not yet gone to the cross. All believers went to Sheol when they died. You'll remember that Sheol was in two parts each separated from the other by a deep gulf...a canyon if you will, but they could see each other...as noted by the story of the rich man and Lazarus When Jesus went to the cross, He went to Sheol. He preached to the people there, then led them out and into Heaven...Jesus also went to the dark side of Sheol, took the keys from Satan and thereby establishing His victory over Satan. Now when believers die, we go to heaven. Its all in the Word

 

[Rhema]

Paradise was Abrahams bosom. Jesus was going there. He was only raised to heaven on the third day.

Uh... Not to be disrespectful, but ... wasn't Jesus raised to Earth on the third day?

If I recall correctly, his ascension to heaven was 40 days later.

(Acts 1:3 KJV) To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:​

​

(Acts 1:11 KJV) Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.​

I just happen to think that the exact words matter. No?

Rhema
(But let me know if I missed something. I mean I wouldn't want to confuse people.)

 

[Rhema]

You'll remember that Sheol was in two parts each separated from the other by a deep gulf...a canyon if you will, but they could see each other...

I just spent some time looking over all the verses in the Bible that use the word Sheol (H7585), and can find no scripture that says it has two parts. Might I ask for the scripture that says this?

I would mention, though, that the word "Sheol" is Hebrew, and that word is not found in the New Testament texts, so if you are basing your statement only on Luke 16, the text does not say Sheol, but rather "Hades." And a careful reading shows that only the rich man was in Hades. It doesn't actually say that the beggar was in Hades. The beggar was carried by the angels into Abraham's Bosom, while the rich man found himslef in hell.

(Luke 16:22-23 KJV) And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.​

There is no scripture that actually says that Abraham's bosom is in (or is some part of) Hades. It does say that there is a great gulf between Hades and Abraham's Bosom, so ... one might also say that there is a great gulf between Heaven and Hades (hell).

But the reason that one may know Luke 16 is a parable is this verse -

(Psalms 6:5 KJV) For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in Sheol (or hell) who shall give thee thanks?​

KIndly,
Rhema

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

I just spent some time looking over all the verses in the Bible that use the word Sheol (H7585), and can find no scripture that says it has two parts. Might I ask for the scripture that says this?

I would mention, though, that the word "Sheol" is Hebrew, and that word is not found in the New Testament texts, so if you are basing your statement only on Luke 16, the text does not say Sheol, but rather "Hades." And a careful reading shows that only the rich man was in Hades. It doesn't actually say that the beggar was in Hades. The beggar was carried by the angels into Abraham's Bosom, while the rich man found himslef in hell.

(Luke 16:22-23 KJV) And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.​

There is no scripture that actually says that Abraham's bosom is in (or is some part of) Hades. It does say that there is a great gulf between Hades and Abraham's Bosom, so ... one might also say that there is a great gulf between Heaven and Hades (hell).

But the reason that one may know Luke 16 is a parable is this verse -

(Psalms 6:5 KJV) For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in Sheol (or hell) who shall give thee thanks?​

KIndly,
Rhema

Sheol/Hades/Hell are all the same place. Look into that. And look at Luke 16:19-31

 

[KingJ]

Uh... Not to be disrespectful, but ... wasn't Jesus raised to Earth on the third day?

If I recall correctly, his ascension to heaven was 40 days

No stress, you are correct. I was referring to this verse.

Hos 6:2 After two days he will revive us; on the third day he will restore us, that we may live in his presence.

He was able to go to heaven but chose to be on Earth for 40 days.

 

[B-A-C]

No stress, you are correct. I was referring to this verse.

Hos 6:2 After two days he will revive us; on the third day he will restore us, that we may live in his presence.

He was able to go to heaven but chose to be on Earth for 40 days.

Eph 4:8; Therefore it says, "WHEN HE ASCENDED ON HIGH, HE LED CAPTIVE A HOST OF CAPTIVES, AND HE GAVE GIFTS TO MEN."
Eph 4:9; (Now this expression, "He ascended," what does it mean except that He also had descended into the lower parts of the earth?
Eph 4:10; He who descended is Himself also He who ascended far above all the heavens, so that He might fill all things.)

Question here. If Jesus freed the saints in Abraham's Bosom. When did He do it?
When He ascended on high.. ( to heaven? ) He led the captives free. Was this before or after the 40 days?

Acts 1:3; To these He also presented Himself alive after His suffering, by many convincing proofs, appearing to them over a period of forty days and speaking of the things concerning the kingdom of God.

John 20:17; Jesus *said to her, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'"

Why did Jesus tell Mary He hadn't ascended yet? However.... sometimes in the 40 days.

Luke 24:38; And He said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts?
Luke 24:39; "See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have."

Most scholars believe the account of doubting Thomas to be in the first week after His resurrection. But in this case, was it
before the 40 days were over?

 

[B-A-C]

Heb 9:2 For there was a tabernacle prepared, the outer one, in which were the lampstand and the table and the sacred bread; this is called the holy place.
Heb 9:3 Behind the second veil there was a tabernacle which is called the Holy of Holies,
Heb 9:4 having a golden altar of incense and the ark of the covenant covered on all sides with gold, in which was a golden jar holding the manna, and Aaron's rod which budded, and the tables of the covenant;
Heb 9:5 and above it were the cherubim of glory overshadowing the mercy seat; but of these things we cannot now speak in detail.
Heb 9:6 Now when these things have been so prepared, the priests are continually entering the outer tabernacle performing the divine worship,
Heb 9:7 but into the second, only the high priest enters once a year, not without taking blood, which he offers for himself and for the sins of the people committed in ignorance.
Heb 9:8 The Holy Spirit is signifying this, that the way into the holy place has not yet been disclosed while the outer tabernacle is still standing,
Heb 9:9 which is a symbol for the present time. Accordingly both gifts and sacrifices are offered which cannot make the worshiper perfect in conscience,
Heb 9:10 since they relate only to food and drink and various washings, regulations for the body imposed until a time of reformation.
Heb 9:11 But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation;
Heb 9:12 and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.
Heb 9:13 For if the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling those who have been defiled sanctify for the cleansing of the flesh,
Heb 9:14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Heb 9:15 For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.
Heb 9:16 For where a covenant is, there must of necessity be the death of the one who made it.
Heb 9:17 For a covenant is valid only when men are dead, for it is never in force while the one who made it lives.
Heb 9:18 Therefore even the first covenant was not inaugurated without blood.
Heb 9:19 For when every commandment had been spoken by Moses to all the people according to the Law, he took the blood of the calves and the goats, with water and scarlet wool and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people,
Heb 9:20 saying, "THIS IS THE BLOOD OF THE COVENANT WHICH GOD COMMANDED YOU."
Heb 9:21 And in the same way he sprinkled both the tabernacle and all the vessels of the ministry with the blood.
Heb 9:22 And according to the Law, one may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

When did Jesus go to heaven and sprinkle His blood on the mercy seat in Heaven? Before, after, or during the 40 days?
Did He lead the Old Testament saints to heaven before or after He did this?

 

[B-A-C]

But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem,

Rev 21:1; Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea.
Rev 21:2; And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband.

Rev 21:3; And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them,

 

[KingJ]

Eph 4:8; Therefore it says, "WHEN HE ASCENDED ON HIGH, HE LED CAPTIVE A HOST OF CAPTIVES, AND HE GAVE GIFTS TO MEN."
Eph 4:9; (Now this expression, "He ascended," what does it mean except that He also had descended into the lower parts of the earth?
Eph 4:10; He who descended is Himself also He who ascended far above all the heavens, so that He might fill all things.)

Question here. If Jesus freed the saints in Abraham's Bosom. When did He do it?
When He ascended on high.. ( to heaven? ) He led the captives free. Was this before or after the 40 days?

Acts 1:3; To these He also presented Himself alive after His suffering, by many convincing proofs, appearing to them over a period of forty days and speaking of the things concerning the kingdom of God.

John 20:17; Jesus *said to her, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'"

Why did Jesus tell Mary He hadn't ascended yet? However.... sometimes in the 40 days.

Luke 24:38; And He said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts?
Luke 24:39; "See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have."

Most scholars believe the account of doubting Thomas to be in the first week after His resurrection. But in this case, was it
before the 40 days were over?

A key verse I believe is John 19:30 ''When Jesus had received the sour wine, he said, "It is finished," and he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.''

I believe a strong argument can be made for Jesus not being further punished in Hades, but rather that He went as a victor to Abraham's bosom only. Spoke with them and spent time with them 2 to 3 days. It must have been a lot of people to talk to. Every repentant sinner since Adam and Eve to the thief on the cross.

He then chose to come to earth for 40 days and spend time with us. He then chose to go to heaven after 40 days. He can do whatever He wants.

The underlying ''fact'' is that on day 1 after His death, after He said ''it is finished'', all those in AB qualified to be with God in heaven. The sacrifice for their sins was done.

As such, I firmly believe that all in AB were reconciled according to Hosea 6:2. It is simply not logical that God wait longer than necessary to meet with us. I imagine a God that is very eager to meet us.