Does paradise still exist?

[KingJ]

Faith alone doesn't save anyone.

It does if it is faith unto salvation. '"Saving faith''. The once saved always saved kind. But that discussion needs its own thread.

For the folks held captive by Satan in Paradise, their only remaining work was to hear the gospel of Christ, believe it, and follow Jesus on His way back out.

Jesus proclaimed the good news to them. He never preached / attempted to convert them. They were just waiting for Him. They did not need to 'believe it' either. In the spiritual you ''know''.

Their works of faith granted them a place of comfort in Sheol instead of joining the wicked dead in the pit of Sheol.

No. Their sacrifices for their sins after guilt of sin showed they desired true repentance and hated what is wicked more then they loved it. Thegospel from God to mankind has been ''repent'' from day 1.

The ignorant of Christ burn in Hell? Their judgment is yet to come. I don't believe they are asleep in the grave (soul sleep). That didn't qualify them to go into eternal bliss in Heaven until believing on Jesus. Those that rejected Jesus would not qualify for favor to wait in a place like Paradise, but faced the horror of Hell, though not yet the lake of fire when Hell is put in it.

Your logic is sound. But you are not grasping the cross.

Now that Jesus has died and a covering from sin exists for those who repent, it means that anyone who truthfully repents, will run into Jesus / God and become a born again Christian. This is God's space, not ours. James 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

 

[Dovegiven]

Dovegiven said: Faith alone doesn't save anyone.

You said: It does if it is faith unto salvation. '"Saving faith''. The once saved always saved kind. But that discussion needs its own thread.

I reply again, faith "alone" does not save. People like to place their faith in works, in Grandma's spiritual status, national citizenship, etc. Humanly perceived faith comes in many packages, but only one will save.

Dovegiven said: For the folks held captive by Satan in Paradise, their only remaining work was to hear the gospel of Christ, believe it, and follow Jesus on His way back out.

You said: Jesus proclaimed the good news to them. He never preached / attempted to convert them. They were just waiting for Him. They did not need to 'believe it' either. In the spiritual you ''know''.

I say the scripture answers.
Ephesians 4:7-16 (KJV)
7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

I say Jesus preached such things to the captives, and assigned gifts, knowledge of His gospel, a crash course in Christianity we should all covet.

Dovegiven said: Their works of faith granted them a place of comfort in Sheol instead of joining the wicked dead in the pit of Sheol.
You said: No. Their sacrifices for their sins after guilt of sin showed they desired true repentance and hated what is wicked more then they loved it. Thegospel from God to mankind has been ''repent'' from day 1.

I say: Desiring something and having it are two very different paradigms. If what "they" did was acceptable to God towards eternal salvation, He would not have sacrificed His own Son Jesus to die for our sins. What they sought was an escape from the curse of the Law. That was the extent of their knowledge. The blessing of the Law was effectively realized only through the blood of Jesus, which permitted true repentance, accounting to them a satisfaction of the whole Law.

Dovegiven said: The ignorant of Christ burn in Hell? Their judgment is yet to come. I don't believe they are asleep in the grave (soul sleep). That didn't qualify them to go into eternal bliss in Heaven until believing on Jesus. Those that rejected Jesus would not qualify for favor to wait in a place like Paradise, but faced the horror of Hell, though not yet the lake of fire when Hell is put in it.

You said: Your logic is sound. But you are not grasping the cross.
Now that Jesus has died and a covering from sin exists for those who repent, it means that anyone who truthfully repents, will run into Jesus / God and become a born again Christian. This is God's space, not ours. James 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

I say: The blood of Jesus WASHES away our sins, not just an annual covering of sins for repeantance alone. The blood of Jesus is not a mere covering according to the Law of Moses. Jesus qualified the repentance factor, adding that the repenter must also believe His gospel. When following Jesus enough, they learn that also doing His gospel commands is also expected, thereby proving their love for Jesus, and thereby for the Father God. Sinners owe at least to cleanse their own hands of innocent blood, purify their hearts, by obedience reaching to be holy as God is holy.

 

[Lacawar]

All praises to FATHER AHAYAH YASHAYAH WA RAACH!

Yes it does, it's located in the Middle of the Earth. It'slocation remains in the same place!
Clues - desolate or desolations!
You'll need the KJV 1611 and the Book of Jubilees!

Seek and ye shall find!
Blessings

 

[Bendito]

All praises to FATHER AHAYAH YASHAYAH WA RAACH!

Yes it does, it's located in the Middle of the Earth. It'slocation remains in the same place!
Clues - desolate or desolations!
You'll need the KJV 1611 and the Book of Jubilees!

Seek and ye shall find!
Blessings

Its location is the same but there are no saints there.

 

[Lacawar]

True
The land is enjoying her sabbaths as scripture says.

Also YASHAYAH will send His angels to gather his elect from the 4 corners of the earth after HE returns.

 

[Dovegiven]

All praises to FATHER AHAYAH YASHAYAH WA RAACH!

Yes it does, it's located in the Middle of the Earth. It'slocation remains in the same place!
Clues - desolate or desolations!
You'll need the KJV 1611 and the Book of Jubilees!

Seek and ye shall find!
Blessings

Well, I think I will pass on following the map there, simply citing the blood of Jesus as my admission to Heaven.

 

[Dovegiven]

True
The land is enjoying her sabbaths as scripture says.

Also YASHAYAH will send His angels to gather his elect from the 4 corners of the earth after HE returns.

I think you are a bit ahead of the plan, for the antichrist is about to show out in the tribulation. The sabbaths and feasts will once again cease, only to reemerge in the New Earth, in the biblical confines of ancient Israel at the boundaries God set.

 

[Lacawar]

All praises to FATHER AHAYAH YASHAYAH WA RAACH!

1St - ABBA AHAYAH set the boundaries for the Garden of Eden in the Middle of the earth that was given to Shem! Google maps shows the location.

Shem's Inheritance:
Jubilees 8:12-13,16-21 [12]And there came forth on the writing as Shem's lot the middle of the earth which he should take as an inheritance for himself and for his sons for the generations of eternity, from the middle of the mountain range of Rafa, And all that is towards the north is Japheth's, and all that is towards the south belongs to Shem. [13]And it extends till it reaches Karaso: this is in the bosom of the tongue which looks towards the south. [16]And it extends towards the east, till it reaches the Garden of Eden, to the south thereof, [to the south] and from the east of the whole land of Eden and of the whole east,

[17]This portion came forth by lot for Shem and his sons, that they should possess it for ever unto his generations for evermore. [18]And Noah rejoiced that this portion came forth for Shem and for his sons, and he remembered all that he had spoken with his mouth in prophecy; for he had said: 'Blessed be the Lord God of Shem And may the Lord dwell in the dwelling of Shem.'
Shem's Inheritance
[19]And he knew that the Garden of Eden is the holy of holies, and the dwelling of the Lord, and Mount Sinai the centre of the desert, and Mount Zion -the centre of the navel of the earth: these three were created as holy places facing each other. [20]And he blessed the God of gods, who had put the word of the Lord into his mouth, and the Lord for evermore. [21]And he knew that a blessed portion and a blessing had come to Shem and his sons unto the generations for ever -the whole land of Eden and the whole land of the Red Sea.

Are these the boundaries you're referring too? If so then I agree!

2nd - Antichrist is a system of unbelievers not a one person power that will come into existance.
1 John 2:18 [18]Little children, it is the last time: and as yee haue heard that Antichrist shall come, euen now are there many Antichrists, whereby wee know that it is the last time.
1 John 4:3 [3]And euery Spirit that confesseth not that Iesus Christ is come in the flesh, is not of God: and this is that spirit of Antichrist, whereof you haue heard, that it should come, and euen now already is it in the world.

So yes according to scripture paradise still exists!
But it's given to us to do research and find the answers!
Listening to WA RAACH THE HOLY SPIRIT as we go!

 

[Lacawar]

All praises to FATHER AHAYAH YASHAYAH WA RAACH!

Just a side note for everyone that doesn't know:

In scripture
Mt Zion is Jerusalem
and Jerusalem Is Mt. Zion
Same area!
"The Middle of the earth"
Not the middle east!
Blessings!

 

[Bill]

Faith alone doesn't save anyone. Grace from God is made possible by the blood of Jesus, which is available before anyone has faith in the blood. We are saved by grace through faith. Faith without works is dead, even weak works that won't burn up in the judgment of works by Christ. Abram heard God in the Chaldees, to pick up and go to a place He would show. That wasn't the basis of Abram's salvation, and neither was the contemplated shedding of Isaac's blood, or any other act in his life. The Abrahamic Covevant was launched for Abraham and his heirs to benefit by, which is the root of Judaism and later Christianity. He had to wait like practically everyone else (just Enoch and Elijah) who had respect for God before him and until Jesus died on the cross for the sin of the world. Those two have to be returned to die physically and be counted under the covenant of Jesus' blood. Even the prophets didn't see the coming gospel in it's glorious light. Their revelations could only be explained after Jesus' blood was shed, them learning the connection while in Paradise. David could not enter heaven either until Jesus' blood was taken before the Father. For the folks held captive by Satan in Paradise, their only remaining work was to hear the gospel of Christ, believe it, and follow Jesus on His way back out. Their works of faith granted them a place of comfort in Sheol instead of joining the wicked dead in the pit of Sheol.

The faithful heirs of Abraham, the "Jews" (more accurately "Israel") would not have been left on the other side of Paradise, those who submitted to the Law, found annual covering of sins. What difference for Jews since that day when Paradise was emptied, presumed to zero population that day? So why wouldn't it begin filling back up of those who might love God but had not the gospel since 2000 years ago? The ignorant of Christ burn in Hell? Their judgment is yet to come. I don't believe they are asleep in the grave (soul sleep). That didn't qualify them to go into eternal bliss in Heaven until believing on Jesus. Those that rejected Jesus would not qualify for favor to wait in a place like Paradise, but faced the horror of Hell, though not yet the lake of fire when Hell is put in it.

So of course those sealed by the Spirit, under the benefit of the blood of Jesus, would not be kept in Paradise, but are with Jesus. I didn't say we go to Paradise. The evil, wicked, unrepentant disbelievers bypass it on their way to the pit. We go up leaving body behind for now.

The mysteries of God are always interesting. Kind of like what came first, the chicken or the egg.

In understanding faith and grace. A little of both. Scripture states, faith alone. But that is faith that brings us to the door. (Knock and the door shall be opened)

Yet we also have to acknowledge that God encourages us to have faith in the first place. So God in his compassion /Grace gives us the nudge to find faith. This is something we can not do on our own.

So after God gives us Grace to find Faith. And we use faith to knock on the door. Then we have to recieve Christ (no one can go to the Father but through me) it is in recieving Jesus. In Baptism we inherit the Kingdom of God. That we become God's Children.

It is not a blind gift. Paul states that he strived for the kingdom. He also says "the Spirit has explicitly said that during the last times there will be some who will desert the faith.

So you see. Issues like once saved always saved are not even sculptural. That the Kingdom of heaven is something we strive for. That we can not sin without expecting to recieve judgement for our actions. And that we must seek forgiveness of our daily failings. Lest the sickness of sin enter our souls.

 

[Dovegiven]

The mysteries of God are always interesting. Kind of like what came first, the chicken or the egg.

In understanding faith and grace. A little of both. Scripture states, faith alone. But that is faith that brings us to the door. (Knock and the door shall be opened)

Yet we also have to acknowledge that God encourages us to have faith in the first place. So God in his compassion /Grace gives us the nudge to find faith. This is something we can not do on our own.

So after God gives us Grace to find Faith. And we use faith to knock on the door. Then we have to recieve Christ (no one can go to the Father but through me) it is in recieving Jesus. In Baptism we inherit the Kingdom of God. That we become God's Children.

It is not a blind gift. Paul states that he strived for the kingdom. He also says "the Spirit has explicitly said that during the last times there will be some who will desert the faith.

So you see. Issues like once saved always saved are not even sculptural. That the Kingdom of heaven is something we strive for. That we can not sin without expecting to recieve judgement for our actions. And that we must seek forgiveness of our daily failings. Lest the sickness of sin enter our souls.

To remain licensed by the So, Baptists I had to affirm the doctrine of "once saved, always saved." in so many words of theirs. I couldn't fully reconcile that with all of scripture, so answered "Nay" on my last exam. That stopped my preaching & teaching qualification to that denomination, sending my wife and I into wandering, seeking a like-minded congregation. We found many others who had experienced the same choices.

The scriptures plainly relate to covenants offered by God to man. He will not accept covenants from man to God. The lessor is blessed by the greater. Always.

God has from the beginning offered solutions based on His grace, a mind-boggling undeserved blessing, though allowing a lot of His MERCY as a substitute. His grace has always been unimaginable to us mortal humans, so men have tried to bring that down to a mentally comprehended issue. It's God's ultimate plan for people sealed in the blood of Jesus for eternity. That delivers people from "mere" mercy from the judges and peers. It's a doctine of being "graceful" toward others, not forcing them to appeal for mercy alone, but being not only merciful to others, but also to introduce redemption to sinners who fail to even respect the power of mercy towards them on earth. I see that paradigm in the circuit courts, the lost railing against judges, condemning themselves.

 

[Bill]

To remain licensed by the So, Baptists I had to affirm the doctrine of "once saved, always saved." in so many words of theirs. I couldn't fully reconcile that with all of scripture, so answered "Nay" on my last exam. That stopped my preaching & teaching qualification to that denomination, sending my wife and I into wandering, seeking a like-minded congregation. We found many others who had experienced the same choices.

The scriptures plainly relate to covenants offered by God to man. He will not accept covenants from man to God. The lessor is blessed by the greater. Always.

God has from the beginning offered solutions based on His grace, a mind-boggling undeserved blessing, though allowing a lot of His MERCY as a substitute. His grace has always been unimaginable to us mortal humans, so men have tried to bring that down to a mentally comprehended issue. It's God's ultimate plan for people sealed in the blood of Jesus for eternity. That delivers people from "mere" mercy from the judges and peers. It's a doctine of being "graceful" toward others, not forcing them to appeal for mercy alone, but being not only merciful to others, but also to introduce redemption to sinners who fail to even respect the power of mercy towards them on earth. I see that paradigm in the circuit courts, the lost railing against judges, condemning themselves.

You have an excellent mind and faith. Keep striving for the goal. To be with Our Father in Heaven.

You and your wife have a fine spirit in you, along with the Holy Spirit.

You could say "you dont even know me" . I see you, and know your heart.

Sincerely Yours, the Witness of the Most High

 

[B-A-C]

Another thread that got hi-jacked along the way. But the question still remains.
Still Abraham's Bosom still exist today?

 

[newname]

Another thread that got hi-jacked along the way. But the question still remains.
Still Abraham's Bosom still exist today?

No. They were taken to heaven when Jesus died and rose. They came out of the graves.

 

[B-A-C]

No. They were taken to heaven when Jesus died and rose. They came out of the graves.

There was a period when people came out of the graves, when Jesus was crucified.

Matt 27:52; The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised;
Matt 27:53; and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many.

But I would assume these were people who recently died. Also these were only people buried near the mount of olives.
I would assume the people led out of sheol were saints since the old testament.

Eph 4:8; Therefore it says, "WHEN HE ASCENDED ON HIGH, HE LED CAPTIVE A HOST OF CAPTIVES, AND HE GAVE GIFTS TO MEN."
Eph 4:9; (Now this expression, "He ascended," what does it mean except that He also had descended into the lower parts of the earth?
Eph 4:10; He who descended is Himself also He who ascended far above all the heavens, so that He might fill all things.)

Luke 4:18; "THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD IS UPON ME, BECAUSE HE ANOINTED ME TO PREACH THE GOSPEL TO THE POOR. HE HAS SENT ME TO PROCLAIM RELEASE TO THE CAPTIVES, AND RECOVERY OF SIGHT TO THE BLIND, TO SET FREE THOSE WHO ARE OPPRESSED,

The thought is, no one went to heaven before Jesus was sacrificed as the Lamb of God.

John 3:13; "No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.
Acts 2:34; "For it was not David who ascended into heaven, but he himself says: 'THE LORD SAID TO MY LORD, "SIT AT MY RIGHT HAND,

These people merely went to "paradise" or "Abraham's Bosom".

Luke 16:22; "Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried.
Luke 16:23; "In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and *saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom.

Some Bible scholars believe the thief on the cross may have been the last saint to actually visit "paradise".

Luke 23:43; And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise."

2 Cor 12:2; I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know, God knows—such a man was caught up to the third heaven.
2 Cor 12:3; And I know how such a man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, God knows—
2 Cor 12:4; was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which a man is not permitted to speak.

Perhaps paradise moved. Perhaps it is no longer in sheol, but in the 3rd heaven.

 

[newname]

There was a period when people came out of the graves, when Jesus was crucified.

Matt 27:52; The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised;
Matt 27:53; and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many.

But I would assume these were people who recently died. Also these were only people buried near the mount of olives.
I would assume the people led out of sheol were saints since the old testament.

Eph 4:8; Therefore it says, "WHEN HE ASCENDED ON HIGH, HE LED CAPTIVE A HOST OF CAPTIVES, AND HE GAVE GIFTS TO MEN."
Eph 4:9; (Now this expression, "He ascended," what does it mean except that He also had descended into the lower parts of the earth?
Eph 4:10; He who descended is Himself also He who ascended far above all the heavens, so that He might fill all things.)

Luke 4:18; "THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD IS UPON ME, BECAUSE HE ANOINTED ME TO PREACH THE GOSPEL TO THE POOR. HE HAS SENT ME TO PROCLAIM RELEASE TO THE CAPTIVES, AND RECOVERY OF SIGHT TO THE BLIND, TO SET FREE THOSE WHO ARE OPPRESSED,

The thought is, no one went to heaven before Jesus was sacrificed as the Lamb of God.

John 3:13; "No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.
Acts 2:34; "For it was not David who ascended into heaven, but he himself says: 'THE LORD SAID TO MY LORD, "SIT AT MY RIGHT HAND,

These people merely went to "paradise" or "Abraham's Bosom".

Luke 16:22; "Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried.
Luke 16:23; "In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and *saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom.

Some Bible scholars believe the thief on the cross may have been the last saint to actually visit "paradise".

Luke 23:43; And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise."

2 Cor 12:2; I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know, God knows—such a man was caught up to the third heaven.
2 Cor 12:3; And I know how such a man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, God knows—
2 Cor 12:4; was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which a man is not permitted to speak.

Perhaps paradise moved. Perhaps it is no longer in sheol, but in the 3rd heaven.

I always imagined David and Abraham walking around in the city, appearing to many.

 

[B-A-C]

Abraham was not buried in Jerusalem.

Gen 25:7; These are all the years of Abraham's life that he lived, one hundred and seventy-five years.
Gen 25:8; Abraham breathed his last and died in a ripe old age, an old man and satisfied with life; and he was gathered to his people.
Gen 25:9; Then his sons Isaac and Ishmael buried him in the cave of Machpelah, in the field of Ephron the son of Zohar the Hittite, facing Mamre,

Mamre is about 4 kilometers north of Hebron.

David was buried in Bethlehem

1 Kings 2:10; Then David slept with his fathers and was buried in the city of David.

Luke 2:4; Joseph also went up from Galilee, from the city of Nazareth, to Judea, to the city of David which is called Bethlehem, because he was of the house and family of David,
Luke 2:11; for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.

(I notice Wikipedia says the city of David is Jerusalem).. but it seems they are wrong about most things in the Bible.

 

[Bill]

Abraham was not buried in Jerusalem.

Gen 25:7; These are all the years of Abraham's life that he lived, one hundred and seventy-five years.
Gen 25:8; Abraham breathed his last and died in a ripe old age, an old man and satisfied with life; and he was gathered to his people.
Gen 25:9; Then his sons Isaac and Ishmael buried him in the cave of Machpelah, in the field of Ephron the son of Zohar the Hittite, facing Mamre,

Mamre is about 4 kilometers north of Hebron.

David was buried in Bethlehem

1 Kings 2:10; Then David slept with his fathers and was buried in the city of David.

Luke 2:4; Joseph also went up from Galilee, from the city of Nazareth, to Judea, to the city of David which is called Bethlehem, because he was of the house and family of David,
Luke 2:11; for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.

(I notice Wikipedia says the city of David is Jerusalem).. but it seems they are wrong about most things in the Bible.

You are so logical. Yet Moses and Elijah were present in Israel at Jesus time

 

[B-A-C]

* bump *

 

[Bill]

* bump *

Yes . Lol