Does the Holy Spirit immediately come to indwell a person who has accepted Jesus Christ as personal Saviour?

[Garee]

And btw, I gotta point out that "loving law" is kind of an oxymoron. Any law by nature is restrive and punitive based on DIStrust. A covenant, it's designed for an untrustworthy person who has a known tendency and record of bad behaviors, the kind of person who constantly needs you to keep an eye on them, or there will be dereliction of duty. A law's purpose is to deter such bad behaviors by holding this person accountable. Covenant, on the other hand, is based on TRUST. The primary meaning of the word "Torah" is always instruction, teaching and guidance, it's never meant to be law in the first place. God's relationship with Israel started with a covenant, but turned into LAW after the golden calf incident. Those laws were added as a consequence for their idolatry since Israel had proven themselves to be such an untrustworthy people, and it stayed that way until Yeshua restored the covenant with his blood.

If you ask a friend or family for a favor, such as looking after your kid, your pet, or your house for a while, you don't need to write a contract, sometimes you don't even need to tell them the details, just say the word and they'll take care of it. And if you're familiar with them and equally trusted, then they could ask you a favor like that, and you'll do it. However, if you ask a total stranger to do the job, especially somebody who has a bad reputation, then you'll probably set a lots of rules, you'll even install a serveillance camera to monitor their performance. This is why "those who are under the law is cursed," the curse is loss of trust.

Hi I would offer. . I do not take away the salt of the word a little judgement in a our preachings .But I think God literally loves the hell out of us by a labor of His love called a work of faith . His gospel is love our peace his reward to us. Yoked with him daily our burden is lighter making it easier to love his commandments if we do not harden our hearts in disbelief. .

Like most words there are two sides to a coin or compared to two kinds . Two kinds of wisdom. The wisdom of this dying world as mammon lusting after the temporal dying things seen or the other side the wisdom of our invisible God . . .All things written in the law and the prophets (sola scriptura)

Romans 7:5-7 King James Version5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

In that way no man can serve two good teaching Masters as one Lord of lords. . the letter of the law as mamnon , or the unseen wisdom found in parables as the law of faith (believing is seeing, given eyes and ears to make it possible to love God.)

We can love him and do his comasndement becasue he first loves the us that have not went out form us .God defines who they are

Luke 16:13- No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God. The law and the prophets (God's word) were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

God and mammon. Mammon their communication false authority the living communing with the dead (necromancy) After three times of revealing the right side of the coin (sola scriptura) he lovingly revealed to those who sought after the dead that even if the Son of man Jesus arose they would still seek after their own families member the foundation of paganism. . believe in the other dark side of the coin no gospel light on that side.


Luke 16: 27-31 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.(God's word) )And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, (sola scriptura) neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

 

[complete]

A tricky question:

Most Pentecostal denominations believe there are two separate events.
The "indwelling" of the Holy Spirit which happens immediately at the instant of Salvation.
..and then the "baptism" of the Holy Spirit, which could happen years later, ( or even seconds later )

Acts 1:3; To these He also presented Himself alive after His suffering, by many convincing proofs, appearing to them over a period of forty days and speaking of the things concerning the kingdom of God.​

Acts 1:4; Gathering them together, He commanded them not to leave Jerusalem, but to wait for what the Father had promised, "Which," He said, "you heard of from Me; ​

Acts 1:5; for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now." ​

Jesus was speaking to the apostles here. Were they not saved before this conversation? ...and yet Jesus says you will be baptized by the Holy Spirit at some point in the future.

Acts 1:13; When they had entered the city, they went up to the upper room where they were staying; that is, Peter and John and James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon the Zealot, and Judas the son of James.​

Acts 1:14; These all with one mind were continually devoting themselves to prayer, along with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers.​

Acts 1:15; At this time Peter stood up in the midst of the brethren (a gathering of about one hundred and twenty persons was there together), and said,​

Then we have the upper room, with about 120 people there, including Mary and the apostles. Were none of these people saved?

Acts 2:2; And suddenly there came from heaven a noise like a violent rushing wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting.​

Acts 2:3; And there appeared to them tongues as of fire distributing themselves, and they rested on each one of them.​

Acts 2:4; And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance.​

... the apostles had followed Jesus for 3 years, and yet they don't get baptized in the Holy Spirit until this chapter. Were they not saved before this day?

Acts 8:14; Now when the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent them Peter and John,​

Acts 8:15; who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit.​

Acts 8:16; For He had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.​

Acts 8:17; Then they began laying their hands on them, and they were receiving the Holy Spirit.​

These were obviously believers, who had already been baptized ( in the name of the Lord ), but they had not yet received the Holy Spirit. This is 6 chapters after Acts 2.
Then we have Cornelius.

Acts 10:1; Now there was a man at Caesarea named Cornelius, a centurion of what was called the Italian cohort,​

Acts 10:2; a devout man and one who feared God with all his household, and gave many alms to the Jewish people and prayed to God continually.​

Acts 10:3; About the ninth hour of the day he clearly saw in a vision an angel of God who had just come in and said to him, "Cornelius!"​

It seems he is also a believer, and had been for a while. But yet he doesn't get baptized in the Holy Spirit until....

Acts 10:44; While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message.​

Acts 10:45; All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.​

Acts 10:46; For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered,​

Acts 10:47; "Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?"​

We also have the disciples at Ephesus.

Acts 19:1; It happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the upper country and came to Ephesus, and found some disciples.​

Acts 19:2; He said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" And they said to him, "No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit."​

Acts 19:3; And he said, "Into what then were you baptized?" And they said, "Into John's baptism."​

Acts 19:4; Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus."​

Acts 19:5; When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.​

Acts 19:6; And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying.​

Acts 19:7; There were in all about twelve men.​

They didn't even know there was a Holy Spirit. Again, obviously they were believers, who had already been baptized in water. ( John's baptism )
But yet they had never received the baptism of the Holy Spirit until this moment. They could have believers for years before this time.

John the baptist, said water baptism, and the Holy Spirit baptism were two different things.

Matt 3:11; "As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.​

Luke 3:16; John answered and said to them all, "As for me, I baptize you with water; but One is coming who is mightier than I, and I am not fit to untie the thong of His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.​

There is a verse that says we don't receive the Holy Spirit unless we specifically ask for it.

Luke 11:13; "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?"​

There is another verses that says you must obey God to receive it.

Acts 5:32; "And we are witnesses of these things; and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey Him."​

Finally we have Saul/Paul on the road to Damascus. Now He was a Pharisee, he did believe in God, but not Jesus so much before this trip.
It was three days later when received Damascus.

Acts 9:9; And he was three days without sight, and neither ate nor drank.​

​

Acts 9:17; So Ananias departed and entered the house, and after laying his hands on him said, "Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road by which you were coming, has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit."​

Why didn't Paul receive the Holy Spirit at the moment he met Jesus on the road to Damascus?

In fact, I don't see a single place in the Bible... where the phrase "received the baptism of the Holy Spirit" happens to anyone who just got saved at that instant.
Now I do believe they could happen a few seconds within each other. But it's obvious in the Bible, they are two separate events.

'He that believeth on Me,
as the scripture hath said,
out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
(But this spake He of the Spirit,
which they that believe on Him should receive:
for the Holy Ghost was not yet given;
because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)'
(Joh 7:38)

 

[complete]

... ... There is a verse that says we don't receive the Holy Spirit unless we specifically ask for it.

Luke 11:13; "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?"​

Hello @B-A-C,

* Luke 11:13 that you refer to does not mean that unconverted people are to pray for the Holy Spirit (as the insertion of the article and the use of the capital 'S; in the AV and RV imply), but that the children of God (who can pray only by the operation of the Holy Spirit) are to ask their heavenly Father to give them spiritual gifts or 'power from on high.' The argument being that if earthly parents, who by nature are evil, give good gifts to their children, how much more shall our heavenly Father, give infinitely better things to His children; yes, He blesses them with 'all spiritual blessings' in Christ. The expression, 'pneuma hagion' (i.e., Holy Spirit), is referring to the gifts of the Holy Spirit, and not the Holy Spirit Himself.

There is another verses that says you must obey God to receive it.

Acts 5:32; "And we are witnesses of these things; and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey Him."​

* Acts 5:32 - those that obey Him, are those who, 'believe on Him Whom He hath sent'. Believers in the Lord Jesus Christ, receive the Holy Spirit in the form of the new nature , which is from God.

* Finally we have Saul/Paul on the road to Damascus. Now He was a Pharisee, he did believe in God, but not Jesus so much before this trip.
It was three days later when received Damascus.

Acts 9:9; And he was three days without sight, and neither ate nor drank.​

​

Acts 9:17; So Ananias departed and entered the house, and after laying his hands on him said, "Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road by which you were coming, has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit."​

* Why didn't Paul receive the Holy Spirit at the moment he met Jesus on the road to Damascus?

In fact, I don't see a single place in the Bible... where the phrase "received the baptism of the Holy Spirit" happens to anyone who just got saved at that instant.
Now I do believe they could happen a few seconds within each other. But it's obvious in the Bible, they are two separate events.

* The, 'One Baptism,' of Ephesians 4, which is part of, 'the unity of the Spirit', is baptism of the Spirit, and not water baptism.

'Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
There is -
.. one body, and
.... one Spirit, even as ye are called in
...... one hope of your calling;
........ One Lord,
.......... one faith,
............ one baptism,
.............. One God and Father of all,
Who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
But unto every one of us is given grace
according to the measure of the gift of Christ.'
(Eph 4:3-7)

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[complete]

' The entrance of Thy words giveth light;
it giveth understanding unto the simple.'
(Psa 119:130)

Hello there,

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God, so we are told in Romans 10:17. The entrance of God's word into not only our minds, but our hearts, brings the light of the knowledge of God, and the seed of faith is sown within us by the Holy Spirit, Whose Word it is. So the work of God within us, begins prior to our salvation, the very act of salvation is born of Him.

The creation of the world began with the entrance of light, and so does the act of the new creation within the mind and heart of the believer in the Lord Jesus Christ. Believing and receiving of the Holy Spirit, is one spontaneous action (Ephesians 1:13): and He continues to equip us, as and when we require it. For He Who searches the heart knows what we need even before we ask it (Hebrews 4:12).

Praise God!
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[B-A-C]

It is clear from the verses quoted below that the sealing of the Holy Spirit takes place within the believer immediately,

'Who hath also sealed us,
and given the earnest of the Spirit
in our hearts.'
(2 Corinthians 1:22)

Where does it say immediately here?

'For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened:
not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon,
that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
Now He that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God,
Who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
(2 Corinthians 5:4-5)

Again, where is the phrase "at the instant of belief".

Adding those in, is simply adding to the Bible.
But there is a second argument from the Pentecostals... they would also say you receive the Holy Spirit at the instant you believe, they would
call that the "indwelling" of the Holy Spirit. They would say there is a second instance of receiving the Holy Spirit, called the "baptism" of the Holy Spirit.

In all five passages where people received the baptism of the Holy Spirit in the Bible ( all in Acts ) it was a period of times ( usually years ) after they first believed.

 

[B-A-C]

* Luke 11:13 that you refer to does not mean that unconverted people are to pray for the Holy Spirit

No argument. If I inferred otherwise, it was a mistake.

Believers in the Lord Jesus Christ, receive the Holy Spirit in the form of the new nature , which is from God.

Again, no argument.

The, 'One Baptism,' of Ephesians 4, which is part of, 'the unity of the Spirit', is baptism of the Spirit, and not water baptism.

I could argue this one, but I want to stick to the subject at hand. Even if it is 'ONLY' the baptism of the Holy Spirit. ( It almost seems you are saying no one should get baptized in water here )
It still doesn't imply it happens immediately.

 

[B-A-C]

This is one of the Epistles Paul wrote from house arrest in Rome. It wasn't really "prison" per se. But it was prison in the sense He couldn't leave.

Eph 4:1; Therefore I, the prisoner in the Lord, urge you to walk worthy of the calling you have received,
Eph 4:2; with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another in love,
Eph 4:3; making every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace.
Eph 4:4; There is one body and one Spirit — just as you were called to one hope at your calling — 
Eph 4:5; one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6; one God and Father of all, who is above all and through all and in all.
Eph 4:7; Now grace was given to each one of us according to the measure of Christ’s gift.

---

Act 19:1; While Apollos was in Corinth, Paul traveled through the interior regions and came to Ephesus. He found some disciples
Act 19:2; and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” “No,” they told him, “we haven’t even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”
Act 19:3; “Into what then were you baptized?” he asked them. “Into John’s baptism,” they replied.
Act 19:4; Paul said, “John baptized with a baptism of repentance, telling the people that they should believe in the one who would come after him, that is, in Jesus.”
Act 19:5; When they heard this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus.
Act 19:6; And when Paul had laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began to speak in tongues and to prophesy.
Act 19:7; Now there were about twelve men in all.

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings Chris,

I am not in anyway entering dispute with you or others on this thread but please may i point out something worth consideration?

the children of God (who can pray only by the operation of the Holy Spirit)

There was at least one occasion we have account of in the New Testament of someone praying and God heard their prayers:

There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band, A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.
Acts 10:1-2

He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius. And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.
Acts 10:3-4

and if you read through the chapter you will get here:

While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
Acts10:44:48


I am also reminded of one of my favourite 'stories' when the Roman officer tell Jesus that he is not worthy that Jesus should come to his house.

And a certain centurion's servant, who was dear unto him, was sick, and ready to die. And when he heard of Jesus, he sent unto Him the elders of the Jews, beseeching Him that He would come and heal his servant. And when they came to Jesus, they besought him instantly, saying, That he was worthy for whom he should do this: For he loveth our nation, and he hath built us a synagogue
Then Jesus went with them. And when He was now not far from the house, the centurion sent friends to Him, saying unto Him, Lord, trouble not Thyself: for I am not worthy that Thou shouldest enter under my roof: wherefore neither thought I myself worthy to come unto Thee: but say in a word, and my servant shall be healed. For I also am a man set under authority, having under me soldiers, and I say unto one, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it
When Jesus heard these things, He marvelled at him, and turned Him about, and said unto the people that followed Him, I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel
And they that were sent, returning to the house, found the servant whole that had been sick.
Luke 7:2-10


Bless you Sister ....><>

 

[Garee]

Where does it say immediately here?



Again, where is the phrase "at the instant of belief".

Adding those in, is simply adding to the Bible.
But there is a second argument from the Pentecostals... they would also say you receive the Holy Spirit at the instant you believe, they would
call that the "indwelling" of the Holy Spirit. They would say there is a second instance of receiving the Holy Spirit, called the "baptism" of the Holy Spirit.

In all five passages where people received the baptism of the Holy Spirit in the Bible ( all in Acts ) it was a period of times ( usually years ) after they first believed.

I would offer.

The bible does not require we seek after what is called "sign gifts". (Charismatic type of false . .self worship self edification .I did it it proves it .

The atheist Jew that followed after commandments as oral traditions of sinners tried to make Jesus the Son of man into a circus seal. Do a trick work a miracle then when we see it with our own eyes then we will believe .Having no faith as it is writen the could please our invisible God .

John 4:48 Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.

They affirmed it. .

John 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?

Signs to wonder after for the non-believers. Prophecy doctrines of God that fall like rain for those who can believe God not seen.

Water baptism is a old testament ceremonial law that was required when a levi desired to join the priesthood. Not all levites were priests .The priesthood was changed with the Son of man, Jesus giving all the nations of the world as a new kingdom of priest as ambassadors for Christ.

In that way water (h20) to represent the unseen work of the Holy Spirit is still used today as a shadow of of the good thing to come not the very object hid in the parables. In that way all forms of living moving water to include sweat in one parable one spit in another is used to identify the water of the word by which Christ cleanses his church, the bride of all nations .

Deuteronomy 32King James Version32 Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth. My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:
Aaron two sons on the day of entering the priesthood as a personal desire added what is called strange fire as a personla I did it it proves it they were consumed by the fiery judgment of God .The ceremonial clothing not a hint of smoke.

There is nothing we can do outwardly to prove a inward action . Going to church reading the Bible getting wet or speaking words without meaning that some call tongue (God's prophecy that falls like rain..)

Leviticus 10:1-3King James Version And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the Lord, which he commanded them not.And there went out fire from the Lord, and devoured them, and they died before the Lord Then Moses said unto Aaron, This is it that the Lord spake, saying, I will be sanctified in them that come nigh me, and before all the people I will be glorified. And Aaron held his peace.

 

[Garee]

Subject Heading:- 'Does the Holy Spirit immediately come to indwell a person who has accepted Jesus Christ as personal Saviour'

If he gives them the power to both hear and do the good will of God then it can be seen who does the accepting "Let there be" the "good testimony" Some murmur and say what about me ?


Philipians2:13-14 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

Jesus the Son of man did the will of empowered by the Father with delight .Jonah an example of those who murrum and kick against the prick (commandments or judgements of God ) .

In the previous chapter Philipians 1:6 that lead towards God s working in us to both (the key) reveal his truth of his will and empower dying mankind to perform it towards his good pleasure . . . we are given his confidence if he began the good teaching work in us he will continue to teach us till the last day .

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

In Hebrews 6 when comparing thorns and thistles to represent the unredeemed Our father builds us up in His love informing the believers of the better thing that accompanies born again salvation He propmised to remember any good works we offer in regard to the power of His name . It's us that can forget .

Hebrews 6:8-11 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned. But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister. And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:

Our heavenly Father can and does bring it to our memories which he previously taught just as he brings each other in a forum to share their bread .

John 14:25-26 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

No one can say they are self taught Christ is the teacher

In that way no man can come unless the Father enables them . Jonah desired to die rather than finish the work the father worked in him .

God is not served by dying human hands as a will.

 

[complete]

Where does it say immediately here?
Again, where is the phrase "at the instant of belief".
Adding those in, is simply adding to the Bible.
But there is a second argument from the Pentecostals... they would also say you receive the Holy Spirit at the instant you believe, they would
call that the "indwelling" of the Holy Spirit. They would say there is a second instance of receiving the Holy Spirit, called the "baptism" of the Holy Spirit.

In all five passages where people received the baptism of the Holy Spirit in the Bible ( all in Acts ) it was a period of times ( usually years ) after they first believed.

In Whom (Christ Jesus) ye also trusted,
after that ye heard the word of truth,
the gospel of your salvation:
.. in Whom also after that ye believed,
.... ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Which is the earnest of our inheritance
until the redemption of the purchased possession,
unto the praise of His glory.'
(Eph 1:13-14)


..