Doubting in my salvation

[SavedByHim]

I have struggled for a very long time with wondering whether I am still saved or not. I don't believe in the "once saved, always saved" doctrine, and I'm just not sure if I am STILL saved or not.

I'll try to explain why I'm wondering this. Hope it won't be long. lol

Years ago, I was doing a lot of bad things I had no business doing, and I loved it, but was sick of my lifestyle. I cried, and prayed to God to forgive me of my sins. I don't know if I specifically asked Jesus into my heart.....I had always just automatically believed Jesus and God were the same.

At that moment, it was like angels started singing, and I felt liquid love pouring all over me. I "heard" God telling me that He loved me, and from that moment on, I was instantly delivered from all the bad stuff I was doing in my life. It was INSTANT. I went from loving it to hating it with a passion.

I also had the perfect knowledge that I did not belong to this world-that I truly belonged with Jesus in Heaven. I knew this with no doubt at all-it was like I was "spiritually awakened". I saw visions of Jesus, and I had incredible amounts of love for anyone around me, and could not stop talking about the love of God.

I also became instantly obsessed with reading my Bible, when before I never opened it up. I started going to church, and was falling out in the Spirit, and having more visions, dreams,and I felt a true "connection" with God-He was in my thoughts constantly, and I hated any kind of sin-it was the weirdest thing, like when I sinned, or if I saw anyone sinning, it HURT inside....like the Holy Spirit was "grieving". I was witnessing to anyone who would listen to me, and I felt the presence of God VERY strongly.

I don't know how to explain what I went through, other than maybe I was baptized in the Spirit, although I did not recieve tongues.

All this went on for over a year, then started fading away-more every day.

I knew absolutely nothing about Spiritual Warfare, and Satan took full advantage of this. I started hearing evil voices in my head, cussing out God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit, as well as hearing horrible thoughts in my head about people....like if I saw an unattractive person, in my head, I would hear...."What an UGLY freak! Why don't they fix themselves up??"

I would be horrified, and begging God in my mind to forgive me. But it was not my thoughts-it was like some demon in my head whispering these things!

Also, I started getting repelled for a split second when I heard the name of Jesus, who I adore. It's like I have this split personality inside.....half of me is struggling to hang onto Jesus with everything I have, and the other half is pushing Him away and cursing Him out and saying evil stuff.

I've rebuked these thoughts over and over. I've cried and cried to Jesus. I've begged for forgiveness over and over for these thoughts. I've gone through more sessions of Deliverance than I can remember......but I feel SO far from God.....NOTHING like when I first came to Him years ago.

I KNOW Jesus is with us everywhere we go. I know this without a doubt. I have no problem with that....but I don't know what is happening to me.

It's like, when I read my Bible, it's all back in place, and I adore my Jesus. But as soon as I close my Bible and go out into the real world, it's like I'm terrified when I think of Jesus coming back because I do not feel like I am "in Christ" anymore like I used to be.

What can I do? I feel like I am holding on by a thread here. I've asked Jesus into my heart again probably 500 times, but I don't have the peaceful assurance of salvation anymore-all I have is the horrible evil demonic thoughts and the terror of judgment.

I've asked for a "renewal" of the Holy Spirit, but it has not happened yet. I hope it is not blasphemous to say that it feels like the Holy Spirit has left me completely, even though this is NOT something I would ever want.

I want to be totally, completely IN CHRIST, with the peaceful assurance I used to have.

Have I lost my salvation? Or was I ever saved to begin with? If I wasn't, then what was that that happened to me, with the wonderful love poured out on me, the visions, the dreams, the manifestations of the Holy Spirit in my life, the obsession with reading my Bible, etc., etc.??

What can I do to get the DESIRE back for God,and to get rid of the evil, blasphemous thoughts in my head? Should I ask Jesus into my heart AGAIN, or should I repent for the thoughts AGAIN?

And no-I have not returned to any of the things I used to do in my old life....it's just my mind that is struggling so much.

HELP!

 

[Boanerges]

Hi SavedByHim! I do believe in eternal security but that is a discussion for another time.
What you are going through is not uncommon and even the great Aposlte struggled with his flesh:
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

We must come to an understanding of one thing; the flesh and all it's desires must die. That is the job of the Holy Spirit, to renew our minds by revelation in the Spirit and lead us into death to self that we may experience the resurrection power of God.There is but one way to walk free from all of this influence. That is to be led of, empowered by and in complete submission to the Holy Spirit. That was the walk of Christ our perfect example. Just remember that He knows you weakness and frailty. No Father rejects a baby for stumbling but gladly helps His child back to his feet.As far as your past, you have been born again to a new family, a new life and a new inheritance.

As far as spiritual warfare, I have read a fair amount on the subject but what works best is this:
Jas 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

Submit to God. Lay every aspect of your life at His feet in absolute surrender.

Resist the devil. Do not entertain thoughs that do not line up with the Word of God. You can't always keep a bird from landing on your head but you can certainly keep it from building a nest. When ever an ungodly thought comes along refuse it and tell it to go in Jesus Name.
When temptation comes along ask God for strength, chose to believe you have received it and walk away in faith on step at a time trusting in His power to carry you through.

If Satan finds no place in you he will leave.
You also can certainly tell him to go and if he stubbornly resists remind him that you speak in the Name of Jesus , that puts the throne of heaven behind your words and he simply must go.

Lastly:
Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Rom 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Rom 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

While the devil himself wants you to believe his lies there is only one thing that can separate you from God's love and that is you.
Repent whenever and wherever needed.
Believe God hears when you ask for forgiveness.
Guilt is not of God. Do not entertain it but put more faith in the love and grace of God than in your power to fail.
Have faith (believe, trust) in your heavenly Father. I will be praying for you.
Many blessings,
your brother Larry.

 

[SavedByHim]

Thank you Larry-you've been very helpful!

Well, the problem is that I no longer sense the leading/guiding of the Holy Spirit like I used to. Is that the unpardonable sin to say that???

I used to be able to cast these thoughts out in the name of Jesus, but it doesn't seem to be working anymore. I used to be able to pray, and I would get answers to prayers all the time, or sense God's presence, but He seems to have turned His head away, like David talks about in Psalms.

I had a few people pray over me at church Wednesday night, and have had marginal relief from the voices, but not enough.

Why am I scared of Jesus coming back now? If I'm saved, shouldn't I have assurance of salvation?

My pastor believes I am saved, but that I have not "renewed" my mind yet. I have had other people tell me that I am being severely oppressed by Satan. My pastor said that I have not recieved the love of Christ completely, or that I have not completely turned my life over to Him.

I want this, but have no idea HOW to do it....

I've seen so many people accept Jesus in their hearts, and they are a completely changed person....and I want that so much, but I've asked Jesus in my heart hundreds of times, but I'm still this horrible terrified person who has cusswords in my head all the time.

When I was a kid, every time I got a bad grade, or did something wrong, my parents would tell me that God hated me and would never ever forgive me. This continued until I was in my 20's. That became ingrained in my brain.

Now, I have no problem believing that God is real, and that Jesus is the Son of God. I have no problem believing that He died for our sins and rose 3 days later......

My problem is believing that He did it for ME TOO. And on my good days, when I can get that to sink in, I still think that I have not accepted Him the RIGHT way, or that I have to submitted to Him TOTALLY, because of all the evil thoughts in my head that were not there when I first converted, and my lack of love for other people like it says Christians are supposed to have, to know they are "in Christ"

I've never seen another Christian struggle like I am. When I go to church, I do not feel like I am part of the body of Christ....I feel like I am the outsider who is trying to be part of the "in crowd" lol

 

[RJ]

I have struggled for a very long time with wondering whether I am still saved or not. I don't believe in the "once saved, always saved" doctrine, and I'm just not sure if I am STILL saved or not.

I'll try to explain why I'm wondering this. Hope it won't be long. lol

Years ago, I was doing a lot of bad things I had no business doing, and I loved it, but was sick of my lifestyle. I cried, and prayed to God to forgive me of my sins. I don't know if I specifically asked Jesus into my heart.....I had always just automatically believed Jesus and God were the same.

At that moment, it was like angels started singing, and I felt liquid love pouring all over me. I "heard" God telling me that He loved me, and from that moment on, I was instantly delivered from all the bad stuff I was doing in my life. It was INSTANT. I went from loving it to hating it with a passion.

I also had the perfect knowledge that I did not belong to this world-that I truly belonged with Jesus in Heaven. I knew this with no doubt at all-it was like I was "spiritually awakened". I saw visions of Jesus, and I had incredible amounts of love for anyone around me, and could not stop talking about the love of God.

I also became instantly obsessed with reading my Bible, when before I never opened it up. I started going to church, and was falling out in the Spirit, and having more visions, dreams,and I felt a true "connection" with God-He was in my thoughts constantly, and I hated any kind of sin-it was the weirdest thing, like when I sinned, or if I saw anyone sinning, it HURT inside....like the Holy Spirit was "grieving". I was witnessing to anyone who would listen to me, and I felt the presence of God VERY strongly.

I don't know how to explain what I went through, other than maybe I was baptized in the Spirit, although I did not recieve tongues.

All this went on for over a year, then started fading away-more every day.

I knew absolutely nothing about Spiritual Warfare, and Satan took full advantage of this. I started hearing evil voices in my head, cussing out God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit, as well as hearing horrible thoughts in my head about people....like if I saw an unattractive person, in my head, I would hear...."What an UGLY freak! Why don't they fix themselves up??"

I would be horrified, and begging God in my mind to forgive me. But it was not my thoughts-it was like some demon in my head whispering these things!

Also, I started getting repelled for a split second when I heard the name of Jesus, who I adore. It's like I have this split personality inside.....half of me is struggling to hang onto Jesus with everything I have, and the other half is pushing Him away and cursing Him out and saying evil stuff.

I've rebuked these thoughts over and over. I've cried and cried to Jesus. I've begged for forgiveness over and over for these thoughts. I've gone through more sessions of Deliverance than I can remember......but I feel SO far from God.....NOTHING like when I first came to Him years ago.

I KNOW Jesus is with us everywhere we go. I know this without a doubt. I have no problem with that....but I don't know what is happening to me.

It's like, when I read my Bible, it's all back in place, and I adore my Jesus. But as soon as I close my Bible and go out into the real world, it's like I'm terrified when I think of Jesus coming back because I do not feel like I am "in Christ" anymore like I used to be.

What can I do? I feel like I am holding on by a thread here. I've asked Jesus into my heart again probably 500 times, but I don't have the peaceful assurance of salvation anymore-all I have is the horrible evil demonic thoughts and the terror of judgment.

I've asked for a "renewal" of the Holy Spirit, but it has not happened yet. I hope it is not blasphemous to say that it feels like the Holy Spirit has left me completely, even though this is NOT something I would ever want.

I want to be totally, completely IN CHRIST, with the peaceful assurance I used to have.

Have I lost my salvation? Or was I ever saved to begin with? If I wasn't, then what was that that happened to me, with the wonderful love poured out on me, the visions, the dreams, the manifestations of the Holy Spirit in my life, the obsession with reading my Bible, etc., etc.??

What can I do to get the DESIRE back for God,and to get rid of the evil, blasphemous thoughts in my head? Should I ask Jesus into my heart AGAIN, or should I repent for the thoughts AGAIN?

And no-I have not returned to any of the things I used to do in my old life....it's just my mind that is struggling so much.

HELP!

My dear friend what I am about to say is from my heart and what God is speaking to me right now.
Don't take my word for this, just listen, don't automatically reject what I say either, give it time and you will discover what is truth to you and get back the peace you once had. Personally, from what you have said, I feel that you are saved but, you some how have allowed yourself to be influenced by some un-truths in your life. So, let's take each one of these head on.
Again, be open and do not listen with a totally preconcieved notion:

1. I don't believe in the "once saved, always saved" doctrine, and I'm just not sure if I am STILL saved or not. This is not a doctrine, not by man anyway. God says, when you are truly "Born-Again" and he enters your being, it is a done deal. He says that he will never leave you for ANY reason, PERIOD!,He calls this a mystery, because there is no way that we can fully understand this. For you to fully understand this is to say you fully comprehend, "The Virgin Birth", "Mana from Heaven","The Resurrection" and all the other of God's miracles! What God has given to you, in ,Jesus Christ, He calls a gift. And if it is a gift it is free. He leaves this gift on the table of your life. Since this gift, is free, the choice is yours, recieve it or leave it on the table. But, make no mistake in your life, once you recieve this gift, your Spiritual Birth, you can't give it back, it is an impossibilty. The Bible is very clear about a Christian, having two births, one of water and one of spirit. The first one is of your mother's womb , the second from the holy Spirit! And this is a truth, you can not be un-born from either one.
2. I also had the perfect knowledge that I did not belong to this world-that I truly belonged with Jesus in Heaven. The truth is that you do not belong to this world. St. Peter believed in that and called us Aliens. In Ephisians, we are told that we are already seated in the heavens with Jesus Christ....wow!, another mystery there, but truth!
3. I don't know how to explain what I went through, other than maybe I was baptized in the Spirit, although I did not recieve tongues. There is NO maybe, either you did or you didn't get baptised in the Holy spirit! After you have time to let all of this soak in and you still say MAYBE, that is all right. I tell others, well, let's do it again for the first time! Go to Romans 10:8-13 and do what it says or have someone you trust, lead you through it. Like I siad, it appears to me that you have already done this and your just not living it. Now, I say this in all respect to you and others who may read: Tongues, tongues, tongues, I am tired of hearing about tongues! Do not mis-understand me, tongues is a gift from God. Tongues is a wonderful thing! But, make no mistake what the Bible says about this also, if you do it in front of others that do not undestand and you do not provide interpretation, so they also can be edified, then it is not to be done. And, not recieving the gift of tongues has nothing to do with your salvation!!! God gives all kinds of gifts to edify the church and strenghten the "Body of Christ". It is up to him who gets what ad He does not give all gifts to everyone.
4. I started hearing evil voices in my head, cussing out God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit, as well as hearing horrible thoughts in my head about people....like if I saw an unattractive person, in my head, I would hear...."What an UGLY freak! Why don't they fix themselves up??" Get this in your head! Being "Born-Again, your "Spiritual Birth", means that the devil is done for, he is trash, he is puke, he can not hurt you, HE IS DEFEATED AT THE CROSS. Your God is absolute percfection, there is no evil in Him. When you hear evil thoughts, laugh out loud and say that this is not from God, it is not of God, I therefore ignore it. Smile at satan and tell him that he is under your foot and he is going to stay there, no matters what lies he says!
5. I've rebuked these thoughts over and over. I've cried and cried to Jesus. I've begged for forgiveness over and over for these thoughts Remember, these are just thoughts, just lies, they are the untruth and can not hurt you physically or break your spiritual bond with Jesus Christ. When they occur, just smile and think what we have discussed in number 4. above. If you are in public when this happens, just think,someone might look your way and think, " My, look at that person's beautiful smile, they must be happy". And they will be right, you have just turned a negative into a positive and that my friend is of God and is God! Now, another big hurdle! Since you already believe in the negaive thought that there is no such thing as "onced saved always saved". (You see that is negative and there is no negative in God and therefore that is a sin.) then you can easily gravitate to the untruth of asking for forgiveness, time and time again. Because of the word, the Bible, Jesus would tell you," Why do you keep repeatedly coming to me for what I have already done!" Don't you see, my Father in heaven has said that I died for all sin and for all man-kind, reconciling (forgiving) them unto Hisself and, that He would look at there sin no more! My friend, the cross forgave you, you are forgiven, you have been forgiven, you were born forgiven!
6. Have I lost my salvation? Or was I ever saved to begin with? Again, I don't think that you are unsaved. But it is not for me to say; only God knows what is truly in a Man's heart. If you have doubts, go back to number 3. above and think about it. Pm me anytime and I will help. But know this: You can not live in untruths and expect to grow in your reltionship with Jesus Christ. You can not and will not fully understand everything, so that is why God said that it all hinges on faith, belief. " For it is through faith in grace that you are saved, it is a gift and not of your own works". Some time we can talk about what this grace that saves is.

I had a wise man tell me once that I couldn't be a Christian.
But, what I could do is to stop trying to do it myself and just let Jesus Christ live His life through me and be faithful in that!.....and that was very sound advice indeed!

 

[SavedByHim]

Thank you.....I know that Jesus died for our sins, and my thoughts do not change that fact.

My problem is knowing if I have PERSONALLY accepted Jesus in my heart. I have been told that just knowing the facts of His death and Resurrection, and agreeing with them does not make a person saved......it is PERSONALLY accepting Him into your heart and believing that He personally saved us INDIVIDUALLY.

That's where I struggle. Wondering if I have accepted Him PERSONALLY.....since my heart is so hardened, and I don't have the love for other people that I used to have at first.

It's like my Christian "walk" is not maturing, but falling back into how I was before, in my old life...at least in my heart.

This sounds weird, but I have prayed in the past, that God will somehow let me know if I am saved or not.......

And, soon afterwards, it was like my mind/heart was "opened" and God gave me perfect clarity that I was truly saved. He has done this for me several times.....but it just lasts for a day or so, and it's been a LONG time since He has opened my mind to the knowledge that I am truly saved like other Christians have all the time!

And I'm very ashamed to say that I have asked Him for this knowledge, over and over and over.....because when I don't have this knowlege, then I am back at square one-wondering if I'm really saved because I am so terrified of Jesus coming back and me not being "ready" because of all these doubts that I am really saved.

I'm also terrified of the verses like Psalm 106:24 that says that God destroyed the Israelites because they did not BELIEVE that God would bring them safely into the Promised Land.....there is another one in Hebrews that talks about the same thing.

Isn't this exactly what I'm doing by worrying that I'm not truly saved, and being terrified of going to Hell because I don't know if I have come to Christ the "right way?"

 

[stephen]

Dear brother I have read your post and I hear your heart.......The thought coming to my mind is that the devil is a liar John 8:44

Just wondering if you are attached to a good church where the folks give praise and thanks to Jesus.......there is deliverance from all spiritual attack.......being in and taking part in praising the Name of Jesus

 

[SavedByHim]

Stephen, I belong to a very good Spirit-filled nondenominational church. I love it there, but at the same time, whenever I go to church, I am SO jealous of other Christians there, because they are AT PEACE, and filled with the Holy Spirit....they are rejoicing in the Lord, praying in tongues, happy, happy happy, reciting verses, doing good deeds for others.....it is just so OBVIOUS that they are truly saved.

I look at them and I am SO filled with jealousy....not love for them, but pure jealousy. I COVET what they have in Jesus and cannot understand why I'm having these problems when no one else seems to have them.

It's getting so bad that I am starting to dread going to church because I am the "black sheep" there....the "problem child", so to speak. The one that no one wants to get into a prayer group with, or talk to.

For instance....I've prayed for years for God to show me what my purpose is-to reveal to me my Spiritual Gift so I can use it in church, but He has not replied to me.....so I tell myself that I need to just get out there and do those things myself-maybe that's what God wants me to do. So, when someone needs prayer, I walk over to pray for them....

and I go blank and can think of NOTHING to say at all. It's like my brain is fuzz!

I pick a place to volunteer at, and then I totally screw it up, and cry....or the people just never call me back. Every time I try to DO something Christian, something bad happens!

For instance...I would love to volunteer at a nursing home...like reading the Bible to elderly people who have no family. Stuff like that......So I called a place and they turned me down because I had something on my record from nearly 20 years ago-long before I got save! Nothing serious, but it is something on my record that will never be erased.

I explained to the lady that I was a born again Christian, and she said that IF she decided that I could do the volunteer work, that I would not be allowed to be around the patients at all-I would be someone who cleaned the toilets, etc....far away from other patients.

So that knocks out many volunteer opportunities.

So I can't pray for people because I go blank, and can't volunteer because of a past record.

Can't remember Bible verses when I need them, so that knocks out witnessing.

I feel like a total failure at being a Christian! Other people have bad backgrounds, but then they get saved, and I see their lives transformed, and they are out there preaching, praying, casting out demons, laying hands on sick people who are being healed in Jesus' name, etc. etc. etc.

WHY is God blocking these things from happening to me, when I want them so badly? All I want is to have an assurance of my own salvation, and to pray for anyone at any time, and to help others and have some sort of a ministry to share Jesus and show His love through me.

WHY can't I have this like other Christians do?

 

[RJ]

Thank you.....I know that Jesus died for our sins, and my thoughts do not change that fact.

My problem is knowing if I have PERSONALLY accepted Jesus in my heart. I have been told that just knowing the facts of His death and Resurrection, and agreeing with them does not make a person saved......it is PERSONALLY accepting Him into your heart and believing that He personally saved us INDIVIDUALLY.

That's where I struggle. Wondering if I have accepted Him PERSONALLY.....since my heart is so hardened, and I don't have the love for other people that I used to have at first.

It's like my Christian "walk" is not maturing, but falling back into how I was before, in my old life...at least in my heart.

This sounds weird, but I have prayed in the past, that God will somehow let me know if I am saved or not.......

And, soon afterwards, it was like my mind/heart was "opened" and God gave me perfect clarity that I was truly saved. He has done this for me several times.....but it just lasts for a day or so, and it's been a LONG time since He has opened my mind to the knowledge that I am truly saved like other Christians have all the time!

And I'm very ashamed to say that I have asked Him for this knowledge, over and over and over.....because when I don't have this knowlege, then I am back at square one-wondering if I'm really saved because I am so terrified of Jesus coming back and me not being "ready" because of all these doubts that I am really saved.

I'm also terrified of the verses like Psalm 106:24 that says that God destroyed the Israelites because they did not BELIEVE that God would bring them safely into the Promised Land.....there is another one in Hebrews that talks about the same thing.

Isn't this exactly what I'm doing by worrying that I'm not truly saved, and being terrified of going to Hell because I don't know if I have come to Christ the "right way?"

I would rather do this one on one but I will try it trhough this thread:

Let me do this by asking a series of questions and I will answer them as if we both agree, if not let me know where you don't.

1. I a assuming that you agree that from what Jesus did on the cross, you are forgiven? Yes
2. You agree,if God says it, it must be truth? YES
3. Then you agree when God said this: "You are saved through faith in grace"! Yes
4. You agree this the grace that saves is the same thing that St. Paul said was the gospel that saves and that he preached, which is the Death, Burial and Resurrection of Jesus Christ. Where the Death of Jesus Christ forgave all of your sins but did not give you salvation, the burial of Jesus Christ consumates His death and establishes His will as any death and burial of any man does and, the resurreced life of Jesus Christ, in that, you have personally stated that due to your sinful nature, you can not do it by yourself and have ask that He now lives his life through you and you understand that gives you Christ's inheritence and your salvation for all eternity? Yes

If You have answered all these questions with a Yes, congratulations you are definetly forgiven, saved and a child of God for ever!!!
Now, you must believe, as simple as that was, only took a couple of minutes, it is true. It is God's word, His promise, His gift and to think anything else is a lie!

 

[SavedByHim]

Yes, I believe those things.....about other people. I cannot get it into my head that it applies to ME TOO.

I suffer from Scrupulosity.....(religious OCD). It's hard to explain if a person doesn't know anything about it-you can google it to learn more, but basically it is something wrong in my brain that makes it impossible to believe I am really saved. Or that I am forgiven if I sin. It causes a person to ask Jesus into their hearts, over and over and over, or to ask forgiveness for their sins over and over. You obsess about something, and then compulsively do things over and over to try to fix it. In my case, I'm obsessed with wondering if I'm really saved, and so I compulsively ask Jesus into my heart over and over, stressing over wondering if I'm going to Hell or not, no matter how many times God opens my heart to believe.

It's hell, I tell ya!

So if God killed the Israelites who murmmered and complained and did not believe that God would lead them into the Promised Land, then wouldn't He do the same thing to me, because of my INABILITY TO BELIEVE He really saved ME?

 

[Boanerges]

Believe God and believe His love for you. You have the ability to choose, to decide to believe because He has already given you faith.

To be renewed in your mind you must read the Word of God asking the Holy Spirit to show you what it means and how it applies to your life. You must decide to believe that Word over anything you see, feel, etc. Once you accept this Word of God as the truth casting down any thoughts that would contradict it you think like God in that area of your life. Your thoughts are like His (His Word) and that area of your thinking is renewed.

The thing is, you must receive everything from God just like it is. A love gift freely given. You cannot strive your way into it but must trust Him for it.

 

[RJ]

Yes, I believe those things.....about other people. I cannot get it into my head that it applies to ME TOO.

I suffer from Scrupulosity.....(religious OCD). It's hard to explain if a person doesn't know anything about it-you can google it to learn more, but basically it is something wrong in my brain that makes it impossible to believe I am really saved. Or that I am forgiven if I sin. It causes a person to ask Jesus into their hearts, over and over and over, or to ask forgiveness for their sins over and over. You obsess about something, and then compulsively do things over and over to try to fix it. In my case, I'm obsessed with wondering if I'm really saved, and so I compulsively ask Jesus into my heart over and over, stressing over wondering if I'm going to Hell or not, no matter how many times God opens my heart to believe.

It's hell, I tell ya!

So if God killed the Israelites who murmmered and complained and did not believe that God would lead them into the Promised Land, then wouldn't He do the same thing to me, because of my INABILITY TO BELIEVE He really saved ME?

O.k. my friend I will look up religious OCD but, You will have to please forgive me if I don't much believe in something man has come up with as an excuse.

I tell you one thing that you suffer from and that is lack of knowledge. You keep quoting Old testament Scripture, especially how God reacted to man in those days. Don't start reacting to any scripture unless you have a a better knowledge of it. You are either not capable of learning or you simply haven't taken the time to study the Bible enough. If you had, you would know that trying to compare how God reacted to man in those days as compared to now, is absurd! That was part of the Old Covenant Law. You would know that now we are under the New Covenant of Grace, which I have ready explained to you.
Now at this point you have me throughly confused and I am not sure if you are saved. But, God willing, if you are, I have a suggestion: you need to take a sabatical from your church, or atleast mentally.... stop worrying about what others have and you don't, just listen for the word of God and not what others are doing around you.
You need to have three things that is more important than any church, You need you, the Bible and the Holy Spirit. You need to immerse yourself in to the Bible and each time you do, you need to pray for the holy Spirit to give you understanding. I would start with Romans and Hebrews. Read those many times over until it sinks in !
God Bless

 

[SavedByHim]

Makes perfect sense.....but why does it seem like I'm not getting answers to my prayers anymore, like I used to? The Bible used to really "come alive" for me.....it was like words and verses were popping out all over the page, and I knew that was God talking just to me, and it was so thrilling!

I'm going to keep praying that God will speak to me, and help me....I mean, John 6:66-67 is one of my favorite verses to go to (note the numbers when you read the verse!)....it talks about those people who thought Jesus' teachings were too hard, and so they left Him. He asked His disciples...."Are you going to leave me too?"

It breaks my heart every time! Jesus must have been so sad when people were leaving Him! And then Peter said...."Where would we go Lord? You have the keys to eternal life!"

Every time I get so discouraged and feel like I can't go on with this horrible struggle, I try to read that verse and imagine Jesus saying that to me....."Are you going to leave me too?"......

It gets to me every time!

 

[Tyler]

Hi SavedByHim!

I have personally just recently recovered from such an issue. The exact same thing was going on in my head. It was absolute torment and I had multiple mental breakdowns. For a long period of time, I did not even want to think on the matter as it would only cause me to enter even more into the darkness of confusion.

I had even prayed the same prayers you have...to ask for knowledge of being saved... and also received this....but just like you said, it faded within days or even hours. After this repeated foolishness, God finally stopped giving this to me. The problem was that I was not putting my trust in God...I had to have the "feeling" of being saved.

We can't live our lives based on emotions....emotions can be confusing and false. One of Satan's best weapons! People can cry when they are happy; it doesn't always mean they are sad. People can laugh to cover up the hurt inside; it does not always mean they are happy.
There is Scriptural back up to prove the fickle heart we cannot trust, but I unfortunately cannot remember it at the time (if I find it I will post)


Now did I get attacked continuously after changing my mindset and where I am looking? Of course! Not long after doing this I questioned myself again. I did not panic like normally, most likely due to Jesus PRAISE HIM!, but rather just ignored the thought altogether. Yes was hard to keep going without entertaining these thoughts again and slipping, but I continued to pray and read the Lord's Word. Continue to pray and ask in Jesus' name and it shall be done if you truly want to be saved and follow God.

However, recently my pastor has delivered a message, no doubt from God, to the body on Sunday morning.

He said do not focus on your problem, but go forth and follow God. If your heart is in the wrong place, not on God, then it will stay there and your confusion will also stay. The Bible says that if you are righteous in heart, then your actions will also follow. You do not have to strive to do good when the light is in your heart already! It comes as second nature!

So what I did after this, and I highly suggest you to do, is to submit yourself to God again. Say the sinners prayer and believe. After doing this focus on the Word and reading from it every day. Keep your eyes focused on following God and reading his Word. Live it out as well! Rid yourself of anything that may cause you to fall again.

Above all tell God you need His help to stay focused, to put these thoughts behind you. Prayer is a powerful thing not to be underestimated.



Your brother in Christ, Tyler.
GBU :wink:

Note - If you need to talk about this more please do...I have experienced this and may be able to relate and point you to advice.

 

[pray for me]

Thank you Larry-you've been very helpful!

Well, the problem is that I no longer sense the leading/guiding of the Holy Spirit like I used to. Is that the unpardonable sin to say that???

I used to be able to cast these thoughts out in the name of Jesus, but it doesn't seem to be working anymore. I used to be able to pray, and I would get answers to prayers all the time, or sense God's presence, but He seems to have turned His head away, like David talks about in Psalms.

I had a few people pray over me at church Wednesday night, and have had marginal relief from the voices, but not enough.

Why am I scared of Jesus coming back now? If I'm saved, shouldn't I have assurance of salvation?

My pastor believes I am saved, but that I have not "renewed" my mind yet. I have had other people tell me that I am being severely oppressed by Satan. My pastor said that I have not recieved the love of Christ completely, or that I have not completely turned my life over to Him.

I want this, but have no idea HOW to do it....

I've seen so many people accept Jesus in their hearts, and they are a completely changed person....and I want that so much, but I've asked Jesus in my heart hundreds of times, but I'm still this horrible terrified person who has cusswords in my head all the time.

When I was a kid, every time I got a bad grade, or did something wrong, my parents would tell me that God hated me and would never ever forgive me. This continued until I was in my 20's. That became ingrained in my brain.

Now, I have no problem believing that God is real, and that Jesus is the Son of God. I have no problem believing that He died for our sins and rose 3 days later......

My problem is believing that He did it for ME TOO. And on my good days, when I can get that to sink in, I still think that I have not accepted Him the RIGHT way, or that I have to submitted to Him TOTALLY, because of all the evil thoughts in my head that were not there when I first converted, and my lack of love for other people like it says Christians are supposed to have, to know they are "in Christ"

I've never seen another Christian struggle like I am. When I go to church, I do not feel like I am part of the body of Christ....I feel like I am the outsider who is trying to be part of the "in crowd" lol

Wow,
How I know the exact same feeling as you. I have been struggling with the exact same feelings. I want to find Jesus. I too have asked forgiveness and asked Him into my heart. But I don't feel as if He came in yet. Lord please help us and come into our hearts and give us peace and assurance of our salvation. This has been for over 3 years for me. It is a miserable feeling to feel lost and without Jesus.

 

[RJ]

You simply haven't heard anything that we have said to you.

 

[pray for me]

Yes, I believe those things.....about other people. I cannot get it into my head that it applies to ME TOO.

I suffer from Scrupulosity.....(religious OCD). It's hard to explain if a person doesn't know anything about it-you can google it to learn more, but basically it is something wrong in my brain that makes it impossible to believe I am really saved. Or that I am forgiven if I sin. It causes a person to ask Jesus into their hearts, over and over and over, or to ask forgiveness for their sins over and over. You obsess about something, and then compulsively do things over and over to try to fix it. In my case, I'm obsessed with wondering if I'm really saved, and so I compulsively ask Jesus into my heart over and over, stressing over wondering if I'm going to Hell or not, no matter how many times God opens my heart to believe.

It's hell, I tell ya!

So if God killed the Israelites who murmmered and complained and did not believe that God would lead them into the Promised Land, then wouldn't He do the same thing to me, because of my INABILITY TO BELIEVE He really saved ME?

WOW! Another me! I feel your pain. Trust me, I do! I am in the same boat. Father God in heaven, please hear our cries!

 

[Tyler]

You simply haven't heard anything that we have said to you.

This is exactly what I did before I overcame my problem. Simply put, I knew all the facts, all the issues, and all of what was wrong with my heart. The only problem is while i listened...it went in one ear and out the other. I figured I truly wanted to give myself to Christ and to live my life for Him, and I truly did.


HOWEVER, was I willing to actually change my ways and walk with Jesus, give up my old sinful ways and repent? I wanted to, I wanted to believe that I wanted to...I even tried to convince myself of such. Unfortunately, I did not want to open my heart to the truth that I was being a fool and in the wrong. You see, before I entered into this issue I had fallen away. My heart had been hardened. All it took was a little effort to actually TRY to follow God, and then my hardened heart was softened.


Your brother in Christ, Tyler.
GBU

 

[Hekuran]

This is something I have never heard of before. Forgive me if I am asking an ignorant and ill-informed question. My understanding of OCD is that repeated behaviour - such as hand washing or avoiding odd numbers - is an attempt to control anxiety by establishing order. I hope that is not too far off the mark?

So in a religious setting could repeatedly doubting and reconfirming your salvation ultimately be about trying to keep your own salvation under your control?

I feel for you and I do hope you find a way through this, with God's help. It does sound like hell.

Oh, and you are in good company doubting God's presence and the security of your salvation:

Have mercy on me, O God,
according to your unfailing love;
according to your great compassion
blot out my transgressions.

Wash away all my iniquity
and cleanse me from my sin.

For I know my transgressions,
and my sin is always before me.

Against you, you only, have I sinned
and done what is evil in your sight,
so that you are proved right when you speak
and justified when you judge.

5 Surely I was sinful at birth,
sinful from the time my mother conceived me.

Surely you desire truth in the inner parts [a] ;
you teach me wisdom in the inmost place.

Cleanse me with hyssop, and I will be clean;
wash me, and I will be whiter than snow.

Let me hear joy and gladness;
let the bones you have crushed rejoice.

Hide your face from my sins
and blot out all my iniquity.

Create in me a pure heart, O God,
and renew a steadfast spirit within me.

Do not cast me from your presence
or take your Holy Spirit from me.

Restore to me the joy of your salvation
and grant me a willing spirit, to sustain me.

Then I will teach transgressors your ways,
and sinners will turn back to you.

Save me from bloodguilt, O God,
the God who saves me,
and my tongue will sing of your righteousness.

O Lord, open my lips,
and my mouth will declare your praise.

You do not delight in sacrifice, or I would bring it;
you do not take pleasure in burnt offerings.

The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit;
a broken and contrite heart,
O God, you will not despise.
​

 

[SavedByHim]

O.k. my friend I will look up religious OCD but, You will have to please forgive me if I don't much believe in something man has come up with as an excuse.

I tell you one thing that you suffer from and that is lack of knowledge. You keep quoting Old testament Scripture, especially how God reacted to man in those days. Don't start reacting to any scripture unless you have a a better knowledge of it. You are either not capable of learning or you simply haven't taken the time to study the Bible enough. If you had, you would know that trying to compare how God reacted to man in those days as compared to now, is absurd! That was part of the Old Covenant Law. You would know that now we are under the New Covenant of Grace, which I have ready explained to you.
Now at this point you have me throughly confused and I am not sure if you are saved. But, God willing, if you are, I have a suggestion: you need to take a sabatical from your church, or atleast mentally.... stop worrying about what others have and you don't, just listen for the word of God and not what others are doing around you.
You need to have three things that is more important than any church, You need you, the Bible and the Holy Spirit. You need to immerse yourself in to the Bible and each time you do, you need to pray for the holy Spirit to give you understanding. I would start with Romans and Hebrews. Read those many times over until it sinks in !
God Bless

But doesn't the Bible say that Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and always? Doesn't it say that God does not change? And if that is true, and it is true that Jesus and God are ONE, then how can we not take note of what is written in the OT, especially if it is quoted in Hebrews?

My problem is that I read my Bible constantly, and I pray constantly, and yes, I already pray for the Holy Spirit to give me understanding every time I open my Bible. I have been doing this for a very long time now! He used to HELP ME, but I no longer sense the Holy Spirit, I no longer recieve answers to my prayers, and I no longer have the love for God or other people that I used to have.

It is like the Holy Spirit has left me, and I don't know what I did to make this happen....it's like my "desire" for God is dwindling more and more, and I'm holding on by a thread.

It's obvious to me that at one time I WAS saved, because I completely changed, fell in love with Jesus and other people, had a strong assurance of salvation, had a strong urge to witness to everyone who would listen to me, prayed constantly, was THIRSTY for the Word-I could not get enough! I was having visions and dreams, falling out in the Spirit at church, etc. etc. I was totally in love with Jesus.

But I no longer have all that....I have nothing but fear and condemnation, so I have feared that I have somehow lost my salvation...maybe I commited the Unforgiveable sin or something but I don't know how.

Either way, I feel spiritually DEAD now, compared to being spiritually alive like I used to be.

I'm sorry if I'm being confusing, or if I am getting on your nerves, like I seem to be doing......

 

[SavedByHim]

This is exactly what I did before I overcame my problem. Simply put, I knew all the facts, all the issues, and all of what was wrong with my heart. The only problem is while i listened...it went in one ear and out the other. I figured I truly wanted to give myself to Christ and to live my life for Him, and I truly did.


HOWEVER, was I willing to actually change my ways and walk with Jesus, give up my old sinful ways and repent? I wanted to, I wanted to believe that I wanted to...I even tried to convince myself of such. Unfortunately, I did not want to open my heart to the truth that I was being a fool and in the wrong. You see, before I entered into this issue I had fallen away. My heart had been hardened. All it took was a little effort to actually TRY to follow God, and then my hardened heart was softened.


Your brother in Christ, Tyler.
GBU

Yes, I understand what you are saying, but I have not gone back to my old ways at all. I spend all my time reading my BIble, and praying. I avoid ALL sins I see, and if I do sin, I go straight to God for forgiveness.

But my heart has hardened and hardened, despite all this.

So if I'm really NOT saved anymore, then how can I GET saved? I've been trying for 2 years now, but I still hear all these evil things in my mind and am not growing like other Christians do.