Easter

[Jonah2005bt]

:butterfly: I love the spirtit of this group. How wonderful it is to see The Holy Spirit work in all of you!

May your walk with The Almighty GOD, through Christ Jesus always be a Blessed One!

Keep up ' The Good Work' . {Matthew 5:16}

Love always, your sister in Christ Jesus, *genesis

 

[Last Things]

In the book "The Two Babylon's" by Hislop, he traces the Christian holidays, particularly Christ-mass and Easter back to pagan origins. Easter in some from (like Ishtar or Eostre) is the name in many languages of a pagan goddess worshiped on this day. Many of them had sons who died and rose from the dead.

Not sure what evidence there is for this claim. "Easter" is not the name of the holiday, it is called Pascha or some derivative in most of Christianity. Easter comes from "East" referring to the resurrection.

When Romanism wanted to convert the heathen it simply converted their holidays into Christian festivals. There was some controversy with the British, Celtic church, the Orthodox and others over the correct date of this and other festivals.

These two sentences don't make sense to me - Catholicism created the holiday and then the other Church argued over the correct date? There was some disagreement in the early Church about how it should be celebrated as most Christians were Gentile and relied on the solar calendar, whereas Jews used a lunar one.

If it was dated according to the Passover, worked out by a lunar calender, it would have to occur on a different day each year.

Easter occurs on different dates every year but is set to occur on a Sunday.

 

[eddieb]

Easter comes from "East" referring to the resurrection.

Easter comes from a pagan goddess of fertility actually. eostris or Osiris or eosiris(not sure I am spelling the names properly). it depends on the dialect. In the bible in the old testament it refers to this goddess as the "queen of heaven." And what do you know..... this goddess has the appearance of a giant bunny rabbit that lays eggs. eggs/fertility.

 

[Last Things]

Easter comes from a pagan goddess of fertility actually. eostris or Osiris or eosiris(not sure I am spelling the names properly). it depends on the dialect. In the bible in the old testament it refers to this goddess as the "queen of heaven." And what do you know..... this goddess has the appearance of a giant bunny rabbit that lays eggs. eggs/fertility.

The Easter bunny emerged from Lutheran tradition. Hundreds of years ago, it was believed that rabbits, who can reproduce very quickly, were capable of reproducing on their own (parthenogenesis). That is, that rabbits could be virgin mothers. Thus, there was a perceived connection between rabbits and Mary. The connection with eggs come from a popular ancient simile of eggs and the resurrection. Eggs appear lifeless and dead, but life emerges - just as Jesus seemed lifeless, but He was resurrected.

People often assume that Anglo-Saxon traditions (English/German) represent the whole of Christian practices, because they have influenced much of the west. Anglo-Saxons accepted Christianity in 700-800.

Osiris has nothing to do with Easter. Osiris was an ancient Egyptian god. The name 'Easter' comes from Northern Europe. They did not worship or were even aware of an Egyptian god named Osiris. "Easter" refers to the East. When Anglo-Saxons accepted Christianity, they also accepted the Easter holiday - but everyone else called it Pascha. The Anglo-Saxons, unlike most Christians, did not call it Pascha, they called it in reference to the East.

It seems strange and illogical to me to suggest that Pascha is of pagan origin because Anglo-Saxons call it Easter and that sounds like an ancient Egyptian god, when other Christians had been celebrating it for centuries under a different name. In other words, let's imagine today a tribe in the Amazon has converted to Christianity and instead of calling it Easter or Pascha, they call it Bala. Then, a hundred years from now, people say the holiday is of pagan origin because it is called "Bala" which sounds like "Baal". Well, that name it unique to a tribe that had nothing to do with ancient Canaan. It just happened that their name for the holiday sounds like Baal. But it was never called Baal/Bala by any Christians until an Amazon tribe renamed it.

By the way, the myth is usually that it comes from Ishtar, which sounds a lot more like Easter. Ishtar was a Babylonian goddess. Which again, is meaningless because Christians call it Pascha, except among Anglo-Saxons.

 

[eddieb]

The Easter bunny emerged from Lutheran tradition. Hundreds of years ago, it was believed that rabbits, who can reproduce very quickly, were capable of reproducing on their own (parthenogenesis). That is, that rabbits could be virgin mothers. Thus, there was a perceived connection between rabbits and Mary. The connection with eggs come from a popular ancient simile of eggs and the resurrection. Eggs appear lifeless and dead, but life emerges - just as Jesus seemed lifeless, but He was resurrected.

People often assume that Anglo-Saxon traditions (English/German) represent the whole of Christian practices, because they have influenced much of the west. Anglo-Saxons accepted Christianity in 700-800.

Osiris has nothing to do with Easter. Osiris was an ancient Egyptian god. The name 'Easter' comes from Northern Europe. They did not worship or were even aware of an Egyptian god named Osiris. "Easter" refers to the East. When Anglo-Saxons accepted Christianity, they also accepted the Easter holiday - but everyone else called it Pascha. The Anglo-Saxons, unlike most Christians, did not call it Pascha, they called it in reference to the East.

It seems strange and illogical to me to suggest that Pascha is of pagan origin because Anglo-Saxons call it Easter and that sounds like an ancient Egyptian god, when other Christians had been celebrating it for centuries under a different name. In other words, let's imagine today a tribe in the Amazon has converted to Christianity and instead of calling it Easter or Pascha, they call it Bala. Then, a hundred years from now, people say the holiday is of pagan origin because it is called "Bala" which sounds like "Baal". Well, that name it unique to a tribe that had nothing to do with ancient Canaan. It just happened that their name for the holiday sounds like Baal. But it was never called Baal/Bala by any Christians until an Amazon tribe renamed it.

By the way, the myth is usually that it comes from Ishtar, which sounds a lot more like Easter. Ishtar was a Babylonian goddess. Which again, is meaningless because Christians call it Pascha, except among Anglo-Saxons.

I dont know where you are getting that easter is from "the east". In my original post I said I didnt know how to spell the pagan godesses name, which i didnt because I dont care to. but since you wrote ishtar it brought it back to memory and I had to look in some of my notes and do a little research which i have provided below. ishtar isnt pronounced ish-tar its pronounced more like eas-ter. Easter is a day pagans commemorated the resurrection of their god tammuz (which you can find refrence to in scripture and they believed it to be the only son of the moon and sun gods. In the holy bible this is reference to nimrod or the sun god baal. in pagan tradtion nimrod ascended to the sun. Semiramis claimed she concieved a child in the manner Jesus was born impregnated by a spirit. She also claimed she came from a giant moon egg that fell in to the euphrates and this was supposed to have happened at the time of the first full moon after the equinox. the egg became known as ishtars egg if you would like to look into this more. anyway she claimed she became pregnant by the suns rays by baaland the child she brought forth was nammed tammuz. In other traditions they say tammuz was nimrod reborn. when tammuz died (and there are diffrent stories on this also but most say was killed by a wild pig) some of his blood fell on a small evergreen tree. this tree, according to pagan tradtion grew overnight and a 40 day period where no meat was to be eaten and people was to meditate on the "sacred mysteries" of tammuz. also put a "T" over their heart. they also ate cakes with a "T" in it, and you can find a scripture to back this up ... jerimiah 7:18 talks about kneeding dough for these cakes and baking them. Today this tradition is still alive and well... have you ever heard of hot cross buns. ???
anyway, every year on the first sunday after the first full moon after the spring equinox a celebration was made, and was celebrated with rabbits and eggs and also because he was killed by a pig a pig must be eaten on this day, hence easter sunday ham as a tradition still done up today. Take note that easter is not always on passover but can be as much as three weeks away and this is because the pagan holiday is always set as the first sunday after the fist full moon after the spring equinox. passover and easter sometimes fall on the same day but sometimes they are a great distance apart. Now to back this claim up even further with scripture lets take a look in the KJV at Acts12:4. here it says easter in this passage, however many translators and scholars have come together and agreed upon this is one of the places in the KJV that the translation is inaccurate. If you look in other versions of the bible like say RSV it uses the word passover. You can find info on this with some research.
in pagan tradition there are two main "holidays". (I use the term loosely) october 31 and easter. In easter to ensure prosperous growing season pagans rolled eggs in bright spring colors and hid the eggs out and about in the field to bring a good growing season. they hid them in "rabbit dens" they also practiced ritual sex acts possibly orgies and they used the fertility symbols such as eggs and rabbits. also you can research "rites of spring"
from what I can find out all of this took place during the sumerians and the akkadians in babylon. if you study further you will find what I said in my original post is also true, that is if you study how the babylonians spread out after the tower of babel and took their gods with them and they had new languages and dialects over time.
If you look into this for yourself you can find plenty on the internet and you will be able to determine that this "holiday" called "easter" has nothing to do with the east or with what the lutherans came up with. its purely pagan and anyone eating a ham or hiding and finding easter eggs and eating these cakes on easter sunday are in fact practicing a pagan tradition that dates back to early babylon.
Other scripture refrence to the queen of heaven is also found in jerimiah 44:12, 18, &19 in other places in the bible when it refers to worshipping of pagan deity it also uses the term "host of heaven" (KJV)

edit: you are right about osiris being an egyptian god. Like i said I didnt know how to spell the goddess name and that the problem with google you got to know what you are looking up to look it up. if you notice its the only name with the first letter capitalized.... thats because i did a spell checker and thats what poped up.

 

[Last Things]

I dont know where you are getting that easter is from "the east". In my original post I said I didnt know how to spell the pagan godesses name, which i didnt because I dont care to. but since you wrote ishtar it brought it back to memory and I had to look in some of my notes and do a little research which i have provided below. ishtar isnt pronounced ish-tar its pronounced more like eas-ter.

You mentioned a completely different Egptian god. I just though you were retelling this in a different way. The word for Easter is German is Oster (hardly anything related to Ishtar). Ost in German means 'East'. Easter is in reference to the East.

Easter is a day pagans commemorated the resurrection of their god tammuz (which you can find refrence to in scripture and they believed it to be the only son of the moon and sun gods. In the holy bible this is reference to nimrod or the sun god baal. in pagan tradtion nimrod ascended to the sun. Semiramis claimed she concieved a child in the manner Jesus was born impregnated by a spirit. She also claimed she came from a giant moon egg that fell in to the euphrates and this was supposed to have happened at the time of the first full moon after the equinox. the egg became known as ishtars egg if you would like to look into this more. anyway she claimed she became pregnant by the suns rays by baaland the child she brought forth was nammed tammuz. In other traditions they say tammuz was nimrod reborn. when tammuz died (and there are diffrent stories on this also but most say was killed by a wild pig) some of his blood fell on a small evergreen tree. this tree, according to pagan tradtion grew overnight and a 40 day period where no meat was to be eaten and people was to meditate on the "sacred mysteries" of tammuz. also put a "T" over their heart. they also ate cakes with a "T" in it, and you can find a scripture to back this up ... jerimiah 7:18 talks about kneeding dough for these cakes and baking them. Today this tradition is still alive and well... have you ever heard of hot cross buns. ???

You will only find references to these events in websites and books about how Easter is pagan.
For example the "T" thing is not true. Tammuz was a Sumerian god and there is no 'T" in the language. There is no "T" is Arabic or Syria, which were the only people that worshipped Tammuz.
BTW- The OT generally refers to Canaanite paganism, not Sumerian.

This whole myth is based on the idea that Easter is the name of the holiday. The holiday is not called Easter in any other languages. It tricks people into thinking, oh yeah, Easter, that sounds like Ishtar, must be pagan. The holiday is called Pascha. In Hebrew Pesah . So how can Pascha have anything to do with Ishtar? What happened was that when the English and Germans were Christianized they called it Easter/Ost in reference to East/Ost. They were Christianized in 700-800. How does the English converting in 700AD and renaming a holiday to a word that many sounds like the name of an ancient Sumerian god?

anyway, every year on the first sunday after the first full moon after the spring equinox a celebration was made, and was celebrated with rabbits and eggs and also because he was killed by a pig a pig must be eaten on this day, hence easter sunday ham as a tradition still done up today. Take note that easter is not always on passover but can be as much as three weeks away and this is because the pagan holiday is always set as the first sunday after the fist full moon after the spring equinox. passover and easter sometimes fall on the same day but sometimes they are a great distance apart. Now to back this claim up even further with scripture lets take a look in the KJV at Acts12:4. here it says easter in this passage, however many translators and scholars have come together and agreed upon this is one of the places in the KJV that the translation is inaccurate. If you look in other versions of the bible like say RSV it uses the word passover. You can find info on this with some research.

And what was the name of that pagan holiday? Which culture did this? And...

in pagan tradition there are two main "holidays". (I use the term loosely) october 31 and easter. In easter to ensure prosperous growing season pagans rolled eggs in bright spring colors and hid the eggs out and about in the field to bring a good growing season. they hid them in "rabbit dens" they also practiced ritual sex acts possibly orgies and they used the fertility symbols such as eggs and rabbits. also you can research "rites of spring"
from what I can find out all of this took place during the sumerians and the akkadians in babylon. if you study further you will find what I said in my original post is also true, that is if you study how the babylonians spread out after the tower of babel and took their gods with them and they had new languages and dialects over time.

Where do you find evidence for this outside of a book or website accusing Easter of being pagan?
This is also a bit nonsensical because there is no 'pagan tradition'. Do you honestly think every pagan throughout the world did the same thing? Every culture had a different practice.

If you look into this for yourself you can find plenty on the internet and you will be able to determine that this "holiday" called "easter" has nothing to do with the east or with what the lutherans came up with. its purely pagan and anyone eating a ham or hiding and finding easter eggs and eating these cakes on easter sunday are in fact practicing a pagan tradition that dates back to early babylon.
Other scripture refrence to the queen of heaven is also found in jerimiah 44:12, 18, &19 in other places in the bible when it refers to worshipping of pagan deity it also uses the term "host of heaven" (KJV)

There was never a holiday called Easter until the English converted in 700-800.

I do like the pig and eggs and rabbit bits. You do realize that Eggs and rabbits are an Anglo-Saxon thing. The vast majority of Christians have no association of Easter with rabbits, eggs or hams?

 

[eddieb]

You will only find references to these events in websites and books about how Easter is pagan.
For example the "T" thing is not true. Tammuz was a Sumerian god and there is no 'T" in the language. There is no "T" is Arabic or Syria, which were the only people that worshipped Tammuz.

you are correct there is no letter "T" in sumerian. However If you study ancient Sumerian alphabet you will find a symbol that makes a "T" or a cross and on the left side of the horizontal line there are two or three triangles pointing towards the center of the intersection of the lines. There are some single lines and/or some squiggly lines sometimes also. this particular "letter" represents a male pagan deity in the "heavens".... guess which one it is. (Hint: Tammuz)
History shows my claim to be accurate as we have pottery and other artifacts from back then present today. Do a google search on "ancient sumerian alphabet" and you can pull up quite a bit of information on this.
now about what you said here"The holiday is called Pascha. In Hebrew Pesah . So how can Pascha have anything to do with Ishtar?" The answer is it dosent. Go back and read what I wrote originally about the difference between passover and easter. And keep in mind passover happened right before The Lord was crucified. easter and Pascha are different. One is to celebrate the resurrection and the other is to celebrate Pagan beliefs. You may be correct about when it began being called "easter" but the traditions of this holiday go way way back before that by thousands of years.

 

[Last Things]

you are correct there is no letter "T" in sumerian. However If you study ancient Sumerian alphabet you will find a symbol that makes a "T" or a cross and on the left side of the horizontal line there are two or three triangles pointing towards the center of the intersection of the lines. There are some single lines and/or some squiggly lines sometimes also. this particular "letter" represents a male pagan deity in the "heavens".... guess which one it is. (Hint: Tammuz)

Which symbol is that? All gods were of the heaven in Sumerian mythology. Your description of the symbol (why don't you just tell me which one?) does not sound anything like a T.

now about what you said here"The holiday is called Pascha. In Hebrew Pesah . So how can Pascha have anything to do with Ishtar?" The answer is it dosent. Go back and read what I wrote originally about the difference between passover and easter. And keep in mind passover happened right before The Lord was crucified. easter and Pascha are different. One is to celebrate the resurrection and the other is to celebrate Pagan beliefs. You may be correct about when it began being called "easter" but the traditions of this holiday go way way back before that by thousands of years.

Everyone calls is Pascha or some derivative except for the English and Germans.
Your entire argument rests upon the ENGLISH/GERMAN name of Easter being related to the Egyptian god of Osiris, and then you changed that to Ishtar when I pointed this out - and accusations that ENGLISH/GERMAN practices are of pagan origin. All that means is that the Anglo-Saxons brought in pagan customs to their practice of Pascha. But the problem is that you have said these come from Sumeria, which is obviously impossible.. 700s Britain has nothing to do with ancient Sumeria.

 

[eddieb]

Which symbol is that? All gods were of the heaven in Sumerian mythology. Your description of the symbol (why don't you just tell me which one?) does not sound anything like a T.



Everyone calls is Pascha or some derivative except for the English and Germans.
Your entire argument rests upon the ENGLISH/GERMAN name of Easter being related to the Egyptian god of Osiris, and then you changed that to Ishtar when I pointed this out - and accusations that ENGLISH/GERMAN practices are of pagan origin. All that means is that the Anglo-Saxons brought in pagan customs to their practice of Pascha. But the problem is that you have said these come from Sumeria, which is obviously impossible.. 700s Britain has nothing to do with ancient Sumeria.

As I said google "ancient sumerian alphabet" and you will be able to pull up information regarding what I said. the description of the "letter" if you look into this you will find charts that will tell you what the approximate date is that the certian "letters" or symbols began showing up. The charts will also tell you the meaning of that symbol.

My entire argument does not rest upon osiris. If you re-read my post you will see I said it was based on a pagan goddess name and I wasnt sure which one. Also that I said spell checker popped up the name osiris. And yes once you pointed it out I did change it because I was then once seeing the name able to look it up in the footnotes and cross reference material that I have. I said I didnt remember the name for sure and also throughout history there has been many dialects of how the name was pronounced and spelled.

Are you actually looking into anything I have said? because if not then I would rather not continue with this conversation and based upon your comment "my entire argument is based on" is not accurate to what I said previously and is evident this conversation is doing nothing more than spinning tires in mud. Again look up ancient sumerian alphabet, if you would like a more precise search try sumerian or even akkadian cuneiform or omniglot. If you would like information of pagan traditions concerning current day easter traditions you can find out by looking up "ishtars egg" (which is) "semiramis" and also look up "tammuz". If you look this up it will be clear easters traditions we have today are based upon pagan traditions.
[h=1][/h]

 

[lawrenceb]

Many may be surprised to know that the word "passover" did not even exist before William Tyndale coined it for his version of 1526-31. His was also the first English Bible to use "Easter." Previously the Hebrew and Greek were left untranslated. For example, in Wycliffe's Bible, which was based on the Latin, we find pask or paske.

An article which appeared in the Trinitarian Bible Society Quarterly Record states:

When Tyndale applied his talents to the translation of the New Testament from Greek into English, he was not satisfied with the use of a completely foreign word, and decided to take into account the fact that the season for the passover was known generally to English people as "Easter"...Tyndale has ester or easter fourteen times, ester-lambe eleven times, esterfest once, and paschall lambe three times.

When he began his translation of the Pentateuch, he was again faced with the problem in Exodus 12:11 and twenty-one other places, and no doubt recognizing that easter in this context would be an anachronism, he coined a new word, passover and used it consistently in all twenty-two places. It is, therefore, to Tyndale that our language is indebted for this meaningful and appropriate word (date of article unknown).

The English versions after Tyndale followed his example in the Old Testament and increasingly replaced "Easter" with "Passover" in the New Testament. When we come to the Authorized Version, there remained but one instance of the word "Easter" -- Acts 12:4.

It is precisely in this one passage that "Easter" must be used, and the translation "Passover" would have conflicted with the immediate context. In their rush to accuse the Authorized Version of error, many have not taken the time to consider what the passage actually says:

....(Then were the days of unleavened bread.)...intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people.

To begin with, the Passover occurred before the feast of unleavened bread, not after!

And in the fourteenth day of the first month is the passover of the Lord. And in the fifteenth day of this month is the feast: seven days shall unleavened bread be eaten. (Numbers 28"16-17). See also Mark 14:12, i Cor. 5:7-8, etc.

Herod put Peter in prison during the days of unleavened bread , and therefore after the Passover. The argument that the translation "Passover" should have been used as it is intended to refer to the entire period, is ruled out by the inclusion of "these were the days of unleavened bread." Scripture does not use the word "Passover" to refer to the entire period.

Peloubet's Bible Dictionary says:

Strictly speaking the Passover only applied to the paschal supper and the feast of unleavened bread followed (p. 486).

Therefore, as the Passover had already been observed, and the days of unleavened bread were in progress, and yet Herod was still waiting for "after pascha;" we can only conclude that the word must be taken in a broader sense. History in fact does indicate a pagan and Christian interchange with the word through the translation "Easter."

A. W. Watts writes:

The Latin and Greek word for Easter is pascha, which is simply a form of the Hebrew word for passover -- pesach (Easter - Its Story and Meaning, p. 36).

Thus, the word came to be associated with both Christian and pagan observance. And it was to this latter that Herod was referring.

In an excellent study, from which some of the above has been drawn, Raymond Blanton explains (in quotations from Alexander Hislop) that Easter is Ishtar, the queen of heaven and goddess of spring:

The "pascha" that Herod was waiting for was evidently the celebration of the death and resurrection of Tammuz, the Sun god. The sunrise services today are a continuation of that pagan worship.

"...the great annual festival in commemoration of the death and resurrection of Tammuz, which was celebrated by alternate weeping and rejoicing and which, in many countries, was considerably later than the Christian festival, being observed in Palestine and Assyria in June. To conciliate the Pagans to nominal Christianity, Rome, pursuing its usual policy, took measures to get the Christian and Pagan festivals amalgamated, and, by complicated but skillful adjustment of the calendar, it was found no difficult matter, in general, to get Paganism and Christianity - to shake hands." (Alexander Hislop, "The Two Babylons," p. 105).

Continuing his quotation from Hislop, Blanton shows:

The term Easter is of pagan origin -

"It bears its Chaldean origin on its very forehead. Easter is nothing else than Astarte, one of the titles of Beltis, the queen of heaven" (p. 103).

The connection between the word Easter and Tammuz is thus -

The wife of Tammuz was Ishtar (Astarte), who is called Mother Nature, who being refreshed by spring rains brings life. When Tammuz died she followed him into the underworld or realm of Eresh-Kigal, queen of the dead. In her deep grief Astarte persuaded Eresh-Kigal to allow her messenger to sprinkle Astarte and Tammuz with the water of life. By this sprinkling they had power to return into the light of the sun for six months. After which the same cycle must be repeated.

Thus, the goddess of spring or the dawn goddess is responsible for the resurrection of Tammuz. Easter is a joint worship of the two. This Satanic myth is interwoven with the sun's cycle of vernal equinox (dawn) and autumn equinox (sunset). (From "The Flaming Torch" Jan. Feb. Mar. 1987).

Dake's Bible adds:

Easter...is derived from Ishtar, one of the Babylonian titles of an idol goddess, the Queen of Heaven. The Saxon goddess Eastre is the same as the Astarte, the Syrian Venus, called Ashtoreth in the O. T. It was the worship of this woman by Israel that was such an abomination to God. (I Sam 7:3l I Ki 11:5, 33 II Ki 23:13; Jer 7:18; 44:18) (p. 137 N. T.).

This was the "pascha" that Herod was waiting for before releasing Peter. As an Edomite, he and his people had a long association with Babylon and her mystery religion (cf. Gen 14:1-4).

 

[Last Things]

As I said google "ancient sumerian alphabet" and you will be able to pull up information regarding what I said. the description of the "letter" if you look into this you will find charts that will tell you what the approximate date is that the certian "letters" or symbols began showing up. The charts will also tell you the meaning of that symbol.

So you are not going to present any evidence?
The whole argument is silly anyways, since this is a regional tradition, not something universally done.

[quoe]My entire argument does not rest upon osiris. If you re-read my post you will see I said it was based on a pagan goddess name and I wasnt sure which one. Also that I said spell checker popped up the name osiris. And yes once you pointed it out I did change it because I was then once seeing the name able to look it up in the footnotes and cross reference material that I have. I said I didnt remember the name for sure and also throughout history there has been many dialects of how the name was pronounced and spelled. [/quote]

Nto Osiris, your argument is based on the idea that Easter is pagan because it sounds like Ishtar when Easter was a name English and Germans gave the holiday. You then point to German/English traditions and make some outrageous claims about how they are pagan tradition. Thus, these two together proven Easter is pagan.

The problem is, the name of the holiday is not Easter unless you are German/English. The holiday is not celebrated with eggs, bunnies and hams unless you are northern European. What this shows is all these Easter/Christmas/Halloween is pagan claims are made up by false material. Material being written by people that knew they were lying and being dishonest and passed it off as truth.

Are you actually looking into anything I have said? because if not then I would rather not continue with this conversation and based upon your comment "my entire argument is based on" is not accurate to what I said previously and is evident this conversation is doing nothing more than spinning tires in mud. Again look up ancient sumerian alphabet, if you would like a more precise search try sumerian or even akkadian cuneiform or omniglot. If you would like information of pagan traditions concerning current day easter traditions you can find out by looking up "ishtars egg" (which is) "semiramis" and also look up "tammuz". If you look this up it will be clear easters traditions we have today are based upon pagan traditions.

They are not 'pagan traditions'. They are German/English traditions about Easter. Which you try to link with the Persian paganism to prove Easter is pagan.
Can you find a single mention of Ishtar's egg that isn't in reference to Easter? Semiramis has nothing to do with Ishtar or an egg.

 

[james1523]

I welcome anyone who believes in Easter and calls themself a Christian to please post the Scripture which affirms their observance of the occasion.

Please highlight the words chocolate, egg, bunny, in the Scripture verses you find, which will make it easier for us to see it is indeed in the Bible.

To claim that Christ died on a particular date or was born on a particular date , when we know he was not, is in fact a lie. Churches should not be promoting lies but promoting the truth.

To teach a child about Easter bunny and santa Claus when we know these things don't exist, is in fact a lie. If they find out it's a lie, maybe when we tell them about Christ and God they will think it is a lie too and just pretend.

Teaching children to believe that chocolate eggs come from a bunny is wrong and absurd, when it is blindingly obvious that chocolate eggs can only come from a chocolate hen.

 

[Last Things]

I welcome anyone who believes in Easter and calls themself a Christian to please post the Scripture which affirms their observance of the occasion.

What about the fourth or July? Veterans day? I do not understand why people use the 'show me in scripture where you are allowed to do this' argument on the internet.

Please highlight the words chocolate, egg, bunny, in the Scripture verses you find, which will make it easier for us to see it is indeed in the Bible.

Those are particular ways Anglo-Saxons celebrate Easter.

To claim that Christ died on a particular date or was born on a particular date , when we know he was not, is in fact a lie. Churches should not be promoting lies but promoting the truth.

It would only be a lie if they claimed that was the date. We know the date for Easter - the three days following Passover. Since we use a lunar calendar, we have adjusted the date as closely as possible with a solar calendar.

Teaching children to believe that chocolate eggs come from a bunny is wrong and absurd, when it is blindingly obvious that chocolate eggs can only come from a chocolate hen.

We certainly would not want to excite a child's imagination and sense of wonder.

 

[james1523]

What about the fourth or July? Veterans day? I do not understand why people use the 'show me in scripture where you are allowed to do this' argument on the internet.

Galatians 4:10 - to regard the observance of certain special days is a Jewish and secular concept, not really a Christian one.

 

[Last Things]

Galatians 4:10 - to regard the observance of certain special days is a Jewish and secular concept, not really a Christian one.

That's not saying anything about holidays from what I can tell, its hyberbole, which if you take it strictly means we cannot have days, weeks, calendars or seasons,

 

[james1523]

That's not saying anything about holidays from what I can tell, its hyberbole, which if you take it strictly means we cannot have days, weeks, calendars or seasons,

Holiday comes from the word "holy day" and Gal 4:10 is about religious observance of special holy days (or holidays), it is not saying we cannot have calendars, days, weeks, times etc.

 

[Last Things]

Holiday comes from the word "holy day" and Gal 4:10 is about religious observance of special holy days (or holidays), it is not saying we cannot have calendars, days, weeks, times etc.

I am not sure how you are getting that. The passage is widely regarded as being about returning to paganism and pagan practices.

Jews celebrated holidays as prescribed by God. Therefore, I see now way to say holidays and observances are in themselves wrong. This view did not emerge in Christianity until the time of the Anabaptists (1500s).

 

[james1523]

I am not sure how you are getting that. The passage is widely regarded as being about returning to paganism and pagan practices.

Jews celebrated holidays as prescribed by God. Therefore, I see now way to say holidays and observances are in themselves wrong. This view did not emerge in Christianity until the time of the Anabaptists (1500s).

God did not prescribe any holidays for Christians, therefore the observance of Jewish or pagan religious holidays by Christians is not supported by Scripture - that is the point of Gal 4:10 is it not?

 

[Fenn]

God did not prescribe any holidays for Christians, therefore the observance of Jewish or pagan religious holidays by Christians is not supported by Scripture - that is the point of Gal 4:10 is it not?

I always took Galations 4:10 to refer to those who observed specific years, times of the year, and seasons. Such as those who celebrate spring, certain years (zodiac), etc.
What about observing Christ's birth, Christ's resurrection?

 

[lawrenceb]

Source of information copied in this post http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/christmas.html

Since Christmas is celebrating a "birthday", we should see what the scripture teaches about birthdays. Throughout the entire scripture, there are only two birthday celebrations. One was King Herod, who chopped off the head of John the Baptist because of his birthday (Mat.14:6-8 KJB). The other one was the Pharaoh's, who decided to hang to death his chief baker in celebration of his birthday (Gen.40:20-22). Only unbelievers have celebrated birthdays according to God’s word. The scripture mentions no man of God having ever celebrated a birthday. Maybe this is why the scripture does not mention when Jesus was born…because we’re not suppose to celebrate birthdays, which is a heathen tradition! Birthdays have to do with the celebration of the flesh, and we're not to celebrate Christ in a fleshly manner but in a spiritual way. To a Christian, it is not the first birth from corruptible seed that’s important (1 Peter 1:23), but our second birth, when we’re "born again" (John 3:3,7). The 1st birth is of the world, the 2nd of God (John 1:12-13).

...those who observed specific years, times of the year, and seasons. Such as those who celebrate spring, certain years (zodiac), etc.

Carefully note this point: We cannot possibly please God by setting up our own means of worshipping him. Paul called worship contrived by man "will worship", and condemned it (Colossians 2:23; read the entire context from 2:8 through 2:23). Jeroboam sinned by instituting a day of atonement which was "like the one feast which is in Judah," the one ordained by God, but on a different day. The inspired text indicts Jeroboam because "he devised in his own heart" a month for a holy day (1 Kings 12:32-33). Even though they were offering incense to the Lord, Nadab and Abihu failed to treat him as holy because they used fire from a source other than that which was prescribed (Leviticus 10:1-3). They were consumed by fire from the Lord for their transgression.

Those who would argue against, for example, Sabbath observance see Paul's reference to "days and months and seasons and years" (verse 10) as pointing to the Sabbath day, and the festivals, sabbatical and jubilee years given in the Old Testament (Leviticus 23, 25). They view these God-given observances as "weak and beggarly elements" to which the Galatians were "turning again" and becoming "in bondage" (verse 9).

But the problem is, coming to this conclusion betrays a lack of understanding, both of the historical context of the book of Galatians and of the immediate context in which Paul is speaking. In addition, there is an obvious problem with viewing these verses as being critical of the Sabbath. The Sabbath is not even mentioned here. The term "sabbath" and any related words do not appear anywhere in the entire book of Galatians!

To argue against keeping the Sabbath, some assume that the "years" referred to in Galatians 4:10 are the sabbatical and jubilee years described in Leviticus 25. However, the jubilee year was not being observed anywhere in Paul's day, and the sabbatical year was not being observed in areas outside Palestine (Encyclopedia Judaica, Vol. 14, p. 582, and Jewish Encyclopedia, p. 666, "Sabbatical Year and Jubilee").

The fact that Galatia was in Asia Minor, far outside Palestine, makes it illogical to conclude Paul could have been referring here to the sabbatical and jubilee years. The Greek words Paul used for "days and months and seasons and years" are used throughout the New Testament in describing normal, civil periods of time. They are totally different from the precise Greek words Paul used in Colossians 2:16 specifying the sabbaths, festivals and new-moon celebrations given in the scripture. He used exact terminology for biblical observances in Colossians, but used very different Greek words in Galatians. This is a clear indication that he was discussing altogether different subjects.

To understand what Paul meant, we must examine both the historic and immediate contexts of these verses. The Galatian churches were composed mostly of members from a gentile, rather than Jewish, background. Paul made it clear that they were physically uncircumcised (Galatians 5:2; 6:12,13), so they could not have been Jewish. The gods of these gentile people were Jupiter, Zeau, Mercury, and not God Almighty. In other words, the Greek and Roman gods are what they worshipped, not the God of the Old Testament.

Galatians 4:8, "Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods."

These people were predominantly gentile, because Paul would not have said that to a congregation of Jews. He would not have said they did not know God; they may not have understood God, or the plan of God, or the mercy of God, but it would be grossly inaccurate to say to a synagogue of the Jews, "you didn't know God." These were gentiles who did not know God.

First must understand what they were in the passed, to understand what Paul meant in these verses. Scripture says they did not know God, and they were in bondage to false gods. This background is important in understanding this controversial scripture. In Galatians 4:9-10, Paul said that the Galatians were "turning again to the weak and beggarly elements," which included "days and months and seasons and years." Since Paul's readers were from a Gentile background, it is difficult to see how the "days and months and seasons and years" they were turning back to could be the Sabbath and other biblical festivals, since they could not turn back to something they had not previously observed.

Now, the whole concept here is the going back to something from which they came. Now, there isn't any way that we can find these gentiles having come out of the pagan worship of false gods, then having go forward to Christ, and then have them go back into Judaism. It will not come together this way. The immediate context won't hold it, and the historical context won't hold it.

Is it possible that these "weak and beggarly elements" they were returning to (verse 9) could be God's laws, sabbaths and festivals? The word translated "elements" here is the Greek word stoicheia, the same word translated "elements" earlier in verse 3. There Paul described his readers as having been "in bondage under the elements of the world." For this to refer to God's law in verse 9, it would also have to refer to His law in verse 3, since the same word is used.

A great deal of people seem to want to equate the observance of the Law of God as being a form of bondage, and they look for these expressions regarding bondage, and the yoke of bondage, and attempt to apply them to God's Law. Paul's expression, though, says they were in bondage to the elements of the world. This expression can never be applied to God's Law. These gentile Christians had not been involved in those Jewish observances before Paul came there, so how can they go back into them again if they had never come out of them in the first place!

It would seem that in Paul's time, this exceedingly early and primitive view had been expanded to the point at which the stoicheia also referred to the sun, moon, stars, and planets-all of them associated with gods or goddesses and, because they regulated the progression of the calendar, also associated with the great pagan festivals honoring the gods. In Paul's view these gods were demons. Hence, he would be thinking of a demonic bondage in which the Galatians had indeed been held prior to the proclamation of the gospel.

In the verses that follow, Paul goes on to speak of these three crucial subjects in quick succession:

1. 'those who by nature are not gods,' presumably false gods or demons (verse 8);
2. 'those weak and beggarly elements (verse 9); and
3. 'days and months and seasons and years' (verse 10).

No doubt Paul would think of these demons in ways entirely different from the former thinking of the Galatians. Thus, this whole issue takes on a cosmic and spiritual significance. The ultimate contrast to freedom in Christ is bondage to Satan and the evil spirits. Whatever "days and months and seasons and years" the Galatians were observing, they were apparently observing them in a superstitious manner, as they had observed days and times before their conversion.

From the context, we see it is illogical to conclude that Paul was criticizing the observance of the scriptural Sabbath and festivals, since they were not even mentioned. Instead, he was attacking misguided efforts to attain salvation through unnecessary superstitious observances. Besides, the Sabbath is a commandment, and God's Commandments are not grievous (1 John 5:3).

Here's another point to consider concerning the fact about the Galatians "observing times" (Galatians 4:10). In Leviticus 19:26, the term "observe times" does not refer to the days that God set aside. Leviticus 19:26, "...neither shall ye use enchantment, nor observe times." The phrase "use enchantments" refer to divination that the sorcerers used. To observe times meant to observe the clouds, as a study of the appearance and motion of clouds was a common way of foretelling good or bad fortune. (See Matthew 16:3).

What about observing Christ's birth, Christ's resurrection?

Christmas and all birthday celebrations are man-made, and therefore are an unacceptable means of worship. Worship, by definition, is an act recognizing the one who is worshipped as Lord. If he is Lord, whose will should prevail? If I dictate the means of worshipping, whose will prevails? Do you see the point? Worshipping God in my own way is a contradiction. To worship God, I must do so according to his will. What is God’s Will? God’s will is his Law written in our hearts (Psalm 40: 8) . Jesus said his true family are those who "shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven" (Mat.12:50). Christmas and Easter are traditions, and we don’t worship God by following man-made traditions (Mat.15:3,6, Mark 7:7-9,13, Col.2: 8) . We are to show our love for Jesus by doing what Jesus himself said to do in John 14:15, "If ye love me, keep my commandments" (John 21,24; 15:10,14, James 1:22, Rom.2:13, 1 John 5:2-3). "Holi-day" means "Holy-day", and only one entity can make a day holy. Did God, or man, make Christmas a Holy-day? If we know that the roots of Christmas and Easter are of pagan origin, shouldn't the roots of our worship be in the scriptures, rather than paganism?

Some will argue for the "keeping of Christmas and Easter" on the basis of "giving the kiddies a good time." But why do this under the cloak of honoring the Savior's birth and/or resurrection? Why is it necessary to drag in his holy name in connection with what takes place at this season of carnal jollification? As Jesus once asked, in Luke 6:46, "And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?"