Episcopal Church approves same-sex blessing rite

[Brad Huber]

Atheism being what it is, (not believing) it's difficult to see it as connected with faith. And again I'm more than happy for people to be Christians. It's when Christians try to negatively affect the lives of others that I get involved.

So you think someone here is "negatively affecting the lives of others"? Or do you just assume the faith of the christians here fall into that catagory?

What about when a group(s) of people try to negatively affect the business sales of someone because of what they personally believe. I beleive that the owner of Chik-filet is being touted as a gay-hater, and same sex advocasy groups encourage everyone to not give them business. Yet he hires and promotes gay people just the same as straight people. His personal beliefs of traditional marriage so infuriate those groups, that they want to negatively affect the lives of both him, and his employess (which no doubt has a good number of gays). Are you defending the right of believers to believe what they wish, or do you, like that group of people, want to squash any belief that runs counter to your own? That seems pretty "dangerous" to me.

 

[Michelle71]

Haven't read the whole thread, but there is something bothering me. Mud is flung at all those outside the mainstream traditional church philosophy as being cults. Well, the way it is turning out, these denominations are no better are they? Their fruit stinks just as bad as other churches that fall into the gross sins of pedophile etc.

 

[Rockerduck]

Haven't read the whole thread, but there is something bothering me. Mud is flung at all those outside the mainstream traditional church philosophy as being cults. Well, the way it is turning out, these denominations are no better are they? Their fruit stinks just as bad as other churches that fall into the gross sins of pedophile etc.

Mathew 7:13 "Enter through the narrow gate". " For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it".

 

[Strangederby]

So you think someone here is "negatively affecting the lives of others"? Or do you just assume the faith of the christians here fall into that catagory?

I would never argue against a persons personal faith in God. I'd just argue with them when our politics clash. If someone is against allowing gay marrige and bring up statistics to prove their point then I would argue against their statistics. If someone argues against gay marrige and they use religion to prove their point then I would argue against their religion. They are the ones bringing religion to the table not me.

What about when a group(s) of people try to negatively affect the business sales of someone because of what they personally believe. I beleive that the owner of Chik-filet is being touted as a gay-hater, and same sex advocasy groups encourage everyone to not give them business. Yet he hires and promotes gay people just the same as straight people. His personal beliefs of traditional marriage so infuriate those groups, that they want to negatively affect the lives of both him, and his employess (which no doubt has a good number of gays). Are you defending the right of believers to believe what they wish, or do you, like that group of people, want to squash any belief that runs counter to your own? That seems pretty "dangerous" to me.

Yes the Chik-filet thing is a big mess. I would only point out that it's not a great comparison because people are free to buy or not to buy from Chik-filet but in a lot of states people are not free to marry.

 

[dannibear]

I would never argue against a persons personal faith in God. I'd just argue with them when our politics clash. If someone is against allowing gay marrige and bring up statistics to prove their point then I would argue against their statistics. If someone argues against gay marrige and they use religion to prove their point then I would argue against their religion. They are the ones bringing religion to the table not me.

Interesting. Then why did you come to the table called Talk Jesus?

 

[Brad Huber]

I would never argue against a persons personal faith in God. I'd just argue with them when our politics clash. If someone is against allowing gay marrige and bring up statistics to prove their point then I would argue against their statistics. If someone argues against gay marrige and they use religion to prove their point then I would argue against their religion. They are the ones bringing religion to the table not me.

Yes the Chik-filet thing is a big mess. I would only point out that it's not a great comparison because people are free to buy or not to buy from Chik-filet but in a lot of states people are not free to marry.

I am not against gay-marriage, but I am against those who think clergy in general should go against there own faith and marry a gay couple or lose thier ability to marry people, and yes, the pressure to do so is there, and will no doubt one day happen. I dont expect non-christians to be held up to christian values, but at the same time I see gay adovcacy groups wanting to be married by clergy and accepted as okay in a church, regardless of that churchs faith. They literally want to change the faith accomodate them. THAT is what is dangerous, and THAT is what most gay advocasy groups want.

 

[SpiritLedEd]

A majority of Americans are now in favor of extending the right to marry to gay people and this support is strongest among young people.

Please provide proof of this claim; polling data identifying the polling organization and where the poll results can be found.

Spirit Led Ed (SLE)

 

[Strangederby]

Interesting. Then why did you come to the table called Talk Jesus?

Because the majority of people who campaign against gay marrige do so on religious grounds.

 

[SavedinChrist]

I am gay and I am a Christian. For some Christians a contradiction. In my congregation there are many which know it, others which do not want to know it.
I lived in a monogamous gay relationship until four years ago. My lover then died of the results of a car accident. I live in celibacy now. I have an opinion of my own to the topic.
At first once: Every church is responsible for itself. The church can force nobody upon their faith.
Then: If one looks at the Bible quotations closely about homosexuality; one notices something to have what most doesn't seems. Namely, that the Bible does not condemn homosexuality; and this stands but always in connection with shrine prostitution or/ and the turn away from God.
And thirdly, that we know much more today than in the past about homosexuality.

 

[Michelle71]

I am gay and I am a Christian. For some Christians a contradiction. In my congregation there are many which know it, others which do not want to know it.
I lived in a monogamous gay relationship until four years ago. My lover then died of the results of a car accident. I live in celibacy now. I have an opinion of my own to the topic.
At first once: Every church is responsible for itself. The church can force nobody upon their faith.
Then: If one looks at the Bible quotations closely about homosexuality; one notices something to have what most doesn't seems. Namely, that the Bible does not condemn homosexuality; and this stands but always in connection with shrine prostitution or/ and the turn away from God.
And thirdly, that we know much more today than in the past about homosexuality.

The problem is the homosexual agenda wanting to take over the institutions. Indoctrinating kids in kindergarten that this is normal. God did not make Adam and Adam, but Adam and Eve, and there is plenty of scripture evidence that proves this sin is no worse than any other sin found in the standard of God. There are plenty of gay people who have more integrity than some who profess to be Christians. In the eyes of God, sin is sin. If that sin is covered by the blood of Jesus, and it is not pushed on anyone else, then it is between you and the Lord. The tendency of organized church is to strain at the obvious gnat, and swallow the hidden camel.

The kingdom of Satan has taken this particular vice and has used it for political influence as well as an opening to a whole lot of other outlandish things that have been passed into law on the whim of tolerance. Sharia law being next. Islam is not tolerant to Christians, New Agers, or homosexuals. So, we'll see if Christians are able to start working with those who they see are taboo in a time where a worse evil is come in like a flood.

 

[Arnold J.Rimmer]

Please provide proof of this claim; polling data identifying the polling organization and where the poll results can be found.

Spirit Led Ed (SLE)

Sure, SpiritledEd,

Here you go;

[h=1]Half of Americans Support Legal Gay Marriage[/h][h=2]Democrats and independents in favor; Republicans opposed[/h]by Frank Newport


"PRINCETON, NJ -- Fifty percent of Americans believe same-sex marriages should be recognized by law as valid, with the same rights as traditional marriages -- down slightly from 53% last year, but marking only the second time in Gallup's history of tracking this question that at least half of Americans have supported legal same-sex marriage. Forty-eight percent say such marriages should not be legal"

I can not post the link as that requires a minimum of 100 posts, but if you Google " Gallup gay marriage" it will take you to the website.

Arnold

 

[Acebopata]

Polls do not often reflect accuracy, due to the fact that many people eligible to take the poll do not do so. For example, if you wanted to poll how Americans felt about homosexuality, you'd have well over 300 million participants, possible over 400 million. I have a hard time believing a poll is taken in 100% accuracy, unless 100% of eligible participants take the poll, wich most cases only a small percentange actually count toward the total population of the eligible voters. In some cases, poll creators use a poll count of under 10,000 to count for America's 300 million plus population.

 

[stephen]

I am sure that it will prove to be 'Goodbye' Episcopal Church. When sight of the Saving work of Jesus on the cross is lost......there is no substitute and never will be for the bible message. Such company are no longer a 'Church' in the biblical sense.

 

[Strangederby]

I am not against gay-marriage, but I am against those who think clergy in general should go against there own faith and marry a gay couple or lose thier ability to marry people, and yes, the pressure to do so is there.

You mean like right now when a church leader has no choice but has to agree to marry a hetrosexual couple even if they don't want to?