FBI infiltrating and spying on Christian churches

[StewardoftheMystery]

Re-read it.

Brother Paul said:
So here, publicly I am declaring that I will pray for you and all the lost, beguiled, gullible souls, that THINK they are saved but are not

This is what you said about me, and for what reason? For posting an article from a conservative news site about the FBI infiltrating churches.

This pure liberal left hatred.

 

[Brother Paul]

The Holy Spirit does not call those who are of God’s Holy Spirit a “lost soul”. That is what the spirit of the accuser of the brethren does.

Again "and" ! Even the very elect can be deceived. I provided Scripture to support my view.

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

Again "and" ! Even the very elect can be deceived. I provided Scripture to support my view.
Brother Paul said:
So here, publicly I am declaring that I will pray for you and all the lost, beguiled, gullible souls, that THINK they are saved but are not

So what? You included me personally in that broad statement of being a lost soul and among those who think they are saved but are not.

For what? For posting a news article from a conservative site?

Better get used to it snowflake because I am going to post a lot more from conservative sites that expose the wickedness of the liberal left agenda.

 

[Rhema]

So yes I believe these Trump appointed FBI people ARE infiltrating and spying on SOME Christians,

Too bad they missed WACO...

Rhema

What I have written at His behest is 2 Timothy 3:16-17 applied.

Uh... you might not have a good translation for that passage.
(We'll talk later....)

 

[Rhema]

Wow, because I am against the government infiltrating and spying on churches who are against the LGBTQ agenda, I am a lost soul in your eyes?

Seems I have triggered another Liberal. I will remind you and others this is a conservative Christian site, not a leftist liberal site.

If a church is incorporated in the USA, (and most all are, primarily for TAX advantages) then they, as any other corporation, are subject to corporate law that declares corporations to be a creation of the state. As such, they are subject to Civil Law (a derivative of Constitutional Law) but their Constitutional Rights are limited as enumerated by the courts. While individuals have complete freedom of religion as a Constitutional Right, corporations do not.

So if, BY DEFINITION, a church is a creation of the state (meaning it is incorporated), then how could governmental oversight of their own creations be considered "infiltrating" and "spying"?

Now a constitutionally-formed religious society...?? that's a different matter.

Rhema

 

[Brother Paul]

So what? You included me personally in that broad statement of being a lost soul and among those who think they are saved but are not.

For what? For posting a news article from a conservative site?

Better get used to it snowflake because I am going to post a lot more from conservative sites that expose the wickedness of the liberal left agenda.

Since it was you who posted I am saying You and all the lost and gullible souls. ( I guess I should have or could have said "as well as" but that is just semantics. I mean who can justify thinking getting guns and murdering other people (or even intimidating them to submit to their thinking) is even remotely truly Christ like? That's absurd! It borders on blaspheme. Josh Hawley is not a real conservative and some of what he supports is mutually exclusive ( like Boon) from what the Jesus of the Bible teaches and expects of us.

Again...if you want this spying to stop, petition your reps to vote down the Patriot Act. I did so back when G dub'ya was Pres (and I voted for him). But I did hear later that because of it we have stopped an attempted 30 plus Terrorist attacks. One was set to blow up Kennedy Airport and associated explosives were connected to gas piping that spread out for miles. However I do realize that this legitimizes the NSA and wiretapping and infiltrations and worse. Oh well, I guess Ben Franklin may have been correct when he said if you sacrifice freedom for security in the end you lose both.

 

[B-A-C]

Again...if you want this spying to stop, petition your reps to vote down the Patriot Act. I did so back when G dub'ya was Pres (and I voted for him). But I did hear later that because of it we have stopped an attempted 30 plus Terrorist attacks. One was set to blow up Kennedy Airport and associated explosives were connected to gas piping that spread out for miles. However I do realize that this legitimizes the NSA and wiretapping and infiltrations and worse. Oh well, I guess Ben Franklin may have been correct when he said if you sacrifice freedom for security in the end you lose both.

I hear what you are saying, but it appears somewhere in the last decade now the conservative Christians are the threat and are the modern terrorists according to the FBI, and the US military.
While allowing un-vetted foreigners across our borders unchecked.

 

[Brother Paul]

So what? You included me personally in that broad statement of being a lost soul and among those who think they are saved but are not.

For what? For posting a news article from a conservative site?

Better get used to it snowflake because I am going to post a lot more from conservative sites that expose the wickedness of the liberal left agenda.

Cool! But what does that have to do with Jesus? I mean really! Post all you want and I will probably respond (sometimes in agreement). But I feel you were making it seem they were doing this to ALL Christians and Churches who oppose LGBTQ and I say no I do not think that is true. But they probably are looking at those Pastors and Churches that are talking militant responses and rightfully so.

 

[Rhema]

I mean who can justify thinking getting guns and murdering other people (or even intimidating them to submit to their thinking) is even remotely truly Christ like?

To play devil's advocate....

(Matthew 10:34-36 KJV) Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.​

​

(Luke 22:36 KJV) Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.​

 

[Rhema]

But I feel you were making it seem they were doing this to ALL Christians and Churches who oppose LGBTQ and I say no I do not think that is true.

That single issue can be used to shut a church down immediately (and legally). Right now.

I had expected it to start back in the 70's, but there wasn't enough populace support to manage the backlash.

Yet.

(But there is now, depending upon the region.)

 

[Fragrant Grace]

@StewardoftheMystery

You have an arrogant attitude.

If you cannot post with grace and love do not post at all.

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings all,

may I remind you that SomeOne , far more terrifying, is 'spying' on not only the 'Churches' but on all of us here at TalkJesus.

Perhaps we should consider our ways before Him, now, as One Day, we will have to stand before Him and give account for the way we speak and the words we use. [that includes me]

A question....
would you rather fall into the hands of the f-b-eye or Him Who is the Eternal Judge?

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matthew 10:28


Post in Peace

Jesus is the Lord


Bless you ....><>

 

[Christ4Ever]

Dear Posters/Members,

It appears our ability to share as Brothers & Sisters in one faith and love whether or not in agreement or disagreement has become a more difficult in these trying times especially when the subject revolves around the intrigues found in the World we live in.

We can't let how we stand position wise on these different/difficult subjects move us in such a way that our words become adversarial which helps no one. And helping each other should be the purpose of what we share when it pertains to World Events. Swaying a person to one way or another should be left to the Holy Spirit who provides us with the insight/understanding. Even with Brothers & Sisters in Christ Jesus.

That is why how we communicate one to another is important and how others who are not believers will know who we follow. If offense is perceived, we should easily step forward to apologize, and not take umbrage that it was not received as one intended.

I am locking the thread, at least for a time. Very little has been posted here has to do with the subject matter itself, so the thread may be pruned before or if it reopens.

In closing, Prayer, and rereading 1 Corinthians 13 might be something we should consider doing.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

P.S. If you have an issue with a specific individual, maybe starting a Private Message (PM) with them, and even adding a Moderator or someone both trust to the discussion might be something to consider. This allows one to air out whatever is bothering each other without an audience. If you do decide to do this, please do so prayerfully in the name of Jesus Christ. \o/