First a Jehovah's Witness, then a Mormon... Now What? =)

[Logan]

Hello all...

I'm new here and would like to introduce myself. I was born a Jehovah's Witness and practiced with my parents until I was about 16. Later, I converted to Mormonism on my own and married a Mormon girl in the LDS Temple.

Now, my wife and I are disenchanted with "religion" altogether and are leaning toward agnosticism. Of course we believe in God, we're just tired of getting scammed by obviously man-made churches.

What I'm looking for here is a casual discussion with some "not-too-Church-y" Christians who can talk to me about Jesus. I'm a very logical thinker (probably to a fault) and have a hard time understanding and believing most religious doctrines. Trust me, I've searched far and wide for "the truth" in religion and I keep getting disappointed. =(

For starters, can someone please tell me how the atonement of Jesus Christ actually pardons me of my sins? I know about God's love and God's grace and all those warm-feeling, Church-y answers. What I want to know is a practical answer detailing how Jesus' death actually "saves me"? How does him dying affect anything in a practical sense?

Thanks in advance!
Logan

 

[Faithful Son]

There are a few sections on this website where your questions can be answered so I'm not going to answer them for you. Look at the Get Saved section, evidence and prophecy and many more such as Bible study.

Welcome to the forums, sorry to dissappoint you, but most people here are what you may call Churchy, it's also called being a believer in Christ.

Have a nice day.

teraside

 

[Logan]

There are a few sections on this website where your questions can be answered so I'm not going to answer them for you. Look at the Get Saved section, evidence and prophecy and many more such as Bible study.

Welcome to the forums, sorry to dissappoint you, but most people here are what you may call Churchy, it's also called being a believer in Christ.

Have a nice day.

teraside

Thank you so much, teraside! And please don't take offense to my opening post. You did not disappoint me, nor did anyone here, or in any religion for that matter. I was referring to my disappointment with the theologies of the Jehovah's Witness and Mormon churches.

When I mentioned the term "Church-y", I just meant that sometimes I get answers to my questions from people who are so emotionally charged about their beliefs (which is a good thing!) that my brain isn't satisfied intellectually. It's my own flaw. I'm such a logical thinker that I'm looking for religious answers that also contain a practical side. Does that make any sense?

I know it's probably hard not to be a little defensive when a supposed non-Christian comes in here, but please know that I am a good person looking for the truth, that's all. I am honestly seeking it out -- that's the reason I'm here!

And remember, I was born a Jehovah's Witness. I had no choice there. My childhood was based on that reality and I became who I became because I happened to be born into that situation. I later converted to Mormonism for the wrong reason -- because I fell in love with a Mormon girl -- and it wasn't long before I started discovering problems with Joseph Smith.

I tell you these things because I want you to know that I am not a bad person. I'm not here to fight or argue or spread non-Christian views. I'm here to learn and hopefully feel the spirit of truth that so many of you do. I left those other Churches because they didn't feel right to me, and rather than give up on religion completely, I'm trying to find what's right.

With that said, is it possible for you to direct me to a good starting point in those forums you mentioned? It feels a little overwhelming to jump in there on my own... =)

Thanks!
Logan

 

[Faithful Son]

Hey Logan, I didn't mean to sound harsh, if it came out that way I apologize. I have always had understanding for people and where they come from. Let me tell you the basic thing that seperates a true Christian from the other wordly religions. And you may choose to believe what I say, because it is based on the Word of God, the Bible, or you may think what you want.

A christian is a person that believes in Jesus Christ, because when He was a human He came to teach us that we have to believe in Him.

John 3:16 New International Version.

16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Romans 10, the whole chapter also deals with this, aswell as many other parts in the Bible.

9That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. 11As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame." 12For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

I would suggest you read both through John 3 and Romans 10 and make up your own mind. You will see on the right hand of the site there are links to Christian resources, click on Biblegateway, choose the Bible which you prefer and read those two chapters.

That is the first lesson for any Christian, be He new or wanting to understand salvation.

Based on those two facts, go into the forums I mentioned above, start new threads, ask the question you asked here and ask people to help you with the answers.

Your initial question was in fact about Jesus and is death, death does not save, life saves. Read through the forums I suggested, ask your own questions, and may Jesus open your heart and mind to receive Him.

Remember He knocks at your door.

Matthew 7:8 New International Version

8For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.

God bless you Logan, sorry for sounding harsh again.

Much love.
teraside

 

[Logan]

Thanks again, teraside! I'll definitely go into those other forums and start digging... =)

One thing though: you mentioned regarding the atonement that "death does not save, life saves". Is that just semantics? Because obviously Jesus had to DIE for our sins, etc. If it's just semantics, then we could say that Jesus' death does not save, rather it is him giving his LIFE for us that saves... haha. =)

What exactly did you mean by this?

Thanks!
Logan

 

[Faithful Son]

Hey Logan, what I mean when I say death does not save is that Jesus died, yes, but He lived again, He raised from the dead after three days. So the way I want you to interpret my words is like this.

Don't think you have to believe in death, that's not the issue. Believe He was raised from the dead by God. He lived!

It's a fun thing to believe in the only God. And like you said with a spirit of happiness then we could say that Jesus' death does not save, rather it is him giving his LIFE for us that saves... haha, but also. HE IS LIFE :shade: He created the world and the universe, He made and is forming you and me

 

[Chad]

Greetings brother Logan welcome to the forums.

Please start off here, http://www.talkjesus.com/forumdisplay.php?f=39

You'll find a lot of answers to common questions. I think you'll enjoy
the reading.

 

[stephen]

Hello Brother Logan

Reading your post's I appreciate your spirit. You are a seeker after truth. You will have observed this web-site is called 'talkjesus' and I would like to think that Jesus is the central figure here.

In Johns gospel ch 14 Jesus said to a man "You must be born again" "How can a man be born again", the man questioned, "can he enter a second time into his mothers womb and be born"?
Jesus aanswered "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the spirit is spirit"

 

[JustJesus]

This analogy comes to mind....you're guilty as charged...branded as a murderer and sentenced to death, for putting to death another innocent one. And in comes the father of the innocent one you've slain. And he takes your label as a murderer and your sentence of death upon himself, and bestows upon you all of the blessings that he had intended for his own son. Now you're free!
Apart from this...would it be that you'd believe if someone was raised from the dead?
It's just that simple. I hope this helps...it did for me.

 

[SpiritLedEd]

RE: First a Jehovah's Witness, then a Mormon......Now What?

Welcome to TJ, Logan. I'm 69 yrs old. Been a churchgoer all my life. Came to a saving relationship with Jesus in 1983, but I still see myself as a learner.

I've been reading a book entitled "So What's the Difference?" by Fritz Ridenour, a Christian writer. In this book, he compares Evangelical Christianity to Roman Catholicism, the JWs, Mormonism, eastern religions, etc. You should be able to at least order a copy from a Christian book store (if they don't have it in stock). It should answer at least some of your questions about Christianity.

SLE

 

[johnpaul]

This may help you. There was a man in court who was fined for a crime. He was acquainted with the judge who took pity, but had to enforce the law. So the judge fined the man $10000. The man couldn't pay this. Then the judge took off his gown, went over to the man and wrote a cheque for $10000. On the cheque he wrote Paid in full, it is finished. This is what Jesus did for us, but he paid with his blood.

 

[SpiritLedEd]

Re: First a Jehovah's Witness, then a Mormon....now what?

By definition, forgiveness is the releasing of a sinner from the guilt or penalty of his sin. That is what Jesus did for us; he took upon himself the guilt for the sins of all mankind.

"He (Jesus) was pierced for our transgressions. He was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed. We all, like sheep, have gone astray and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all." (Is 53:5-6).

"He (Jesus) was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification." (Romans 4:25).

SLE

 

[On the Path]

Hi Logan,

I am new here also and found this website just wonderful.

In answer to your question about how Jesus's dying atones you for your sins, maybe this story will help.

Many years ago in an old one-room school house, a little boy was caught cheating. The punishment was 40 licks with a switch. But the little boy had been sick most of his life and was barely able to attend school.

His brother stood up and told the teacher that he would take the beating, saying that the rules did not say "who" would be punished and that he would take the punishment for his brother.

And so the brother took the beating.

And that is what Jesus did for us - he took our punishment for sin (death) so that we could live. All you have to do is say "thank you Jesus".


Does that help?


.

 

[Jonah2005]

What I'm looking for here is a casual discussion with some "not-too-Church-y" Christians who can talk to me about Jesus. I'm a very logical thinker (probably to a fault) and have a hard time understanding and believing most religious doctrines. Trust me, I've searched far and wide for "the truth" in religion and I keep getting disappointed. =(

Hi Logan, and welcome to TalkJesus. This is one of the best Christian Groups, that I have ever been a member of, and I hope that you too, will feel the same here as I do. This is truly a Blessed Site.

I can understand how you feel. For I feel the same way about Religion as you do.
But I think, no matter what Church or Congregation one may go to, we are always going to find a mixture of people that want to truly worship GOD & others who are there just to make themselves look good. You will know them by their actions. {Matthew 7:15-20 & Tisus 1:16}

I have found this to be true in a lot of Churches & Congregations, a like.

I have always felt that if we really want to Worship The Almighty, then we should do so. Remember, too HE's watching us all & in the end we all will be judged accordingly to our own actions.

Trust in Christ Jesus, listen to His teachings & live according to them, putting His teachings first in all that you do. By doing so you are putting The Almighty GOD, Jehovah first. {Matthew 6:33, 17:5, Mark 12:29-30 & Luke 9:35 John}

May your walk with The Almighty GOD & Christ Jesus be a Blessed One!

 

[Jonah2005]

This Is What I Understand,
What The Almighty God Expects Of Us!


We must remember & realize that it's not so much the fact 'HOW' Jesus Christ was crucified (Cross, Stake or Tree).

But it's 'WHAT & WHY' He died for: He died for our sins in HOPE that we might be saved. And either way one might look at it, He still died a very
painful & an unfair death.

What I believe what The Almighty GOD would like for us to do, is for everyone that trully believe in The Almighty GOD & Jesus Christ, is to come together as one big family.

Concentrating on what's most important; following Jesus Christ through His teachings & His examples that He set for us all to do.

So many religions have so much in common, but little differences keep them all apart.

We are to be different from the ways of worldly people. But not different from Christ.

Jesus Christ said in Matthew "do not call your brother a fool". {Matthew 5:22}

But what are we doing when we're pointing our finger at each and every religion, other than own. Criticizing them for what they teach. Is this what Christ wanted us to do?

NO! Of coarse not! He wanted us to worship The Almighty GOD. To love The Almighty GOD with all our heart! This was & still is the very first commandment & still, second like it is to love your neighbor as you would love yourself. *Please, share your thoughts. {Mark 12:29-31}

None-the-less, when we see a Brother/Sister sinning we must remind them of the teachings of Christ, for we are not perfect and therefore we might/will stumble. {Romans 3:23} {also see Ezekiel 3:20-21}

Jonah2005

{*genesis!}

 

[SpiritLedEd]

Being critical of other religions in terms of analyzing their teachings is exactly what God wants us to do so that we will not be deceived. The devil is an expert deceiver and he has a lot of people working for him.

"for there are many rebellious people, mere talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision group. They must be silenced, because they are ruining whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach..." Titus 1:10)

"But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies.............Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute." (2 Peter 2:1-2).

SLE

 

[Girl]

For starters, can someone please tell me how the atonement of Jesus Christ actually pardons me of my sins? I know about God's love and God's grace and all those warm-feeling, Church-y answers. What I want to know is a practical answer detailing how Jesus' death actually "saves me"? How does him dying affect anything in a practical sense?

Thanks in advance!
Logan

Hey mate...

I’m going to take a shot at explaining it to you..

You would have read the Old T, right? … Back in that day,.. It was more harder to have your sins forgiven... When we sinned, the penalty would have been death.. However God, being the good guy he is, provided a substitute for us, which was the bloody sacrifice of animals.. These animals were to be slaughtered and sacrificed to God.. The blood of these animals was a substitutes for a persons sin’s…which would have otherwise resulted in death…

So, Jesus suffered and died for us.. He was the ultimate sacrifice!! Nowadays, there’s no need to go about and slaughter animals, when we sin, in order to gain forgiveness,,, because Jesus sacrificed his life for us… His blood was shed for us! …

Sorry.. That was a little rushed.. I’m hoping that made sense..

 

[SlightMiracle]

Hi Logan, (and everyone), I'm new here too.
You've asked the right question Logan. Its really the heart of the issue.
I'm interested why you never completed your journey by trying the Seventh Day Adventists. They're "out there" a bit too you know! If you've never read Ellen White you have deprived yourself spiritually! You can read all her books free on the net. Just Google "Ellen White Nisbett Reference" They've got the largest HTML library on the net of her books. She died in 1915 so she'll be easily exposed by any advances in understanding if she's a fake.

To learn how Christ atones for sin read Moses; Hebrews; Revelation; and the great book called
"With Jesus in His Sanctuary: A Walk Through the Tabernacle Along His Way" - Leslie Hardinge.
You can get it buy it on the net. Maybe even second hand. Its my favourite so far. The JWs and LDS don't seem interested in the subject.

 

[Jonah2005]

Well Said, SpiritLedEd

Being critical of other religions in terms of analyzing their teachings is exactly what God wants us to do so that we will not be deceived. The devil is an expert deceiver and he has a lot of people working for him.

"for there are many rebellious people, mere talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision group. They must be silenced, because they are ruining whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach..." Titus 1:10)

"But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies.............Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute." (2 Peter 2:1-2).

SLE

I understand very well what you are saying & respect it to.

I do agree, we need to becareful & cautious, for there are many false prophets today, as Jesus did say this would happen. {Matthew 7:15}

And I realize that we need to set people straight & set the examples in how we live our lives. But we need to do it in a loving way. And not in a hateful or harsh-full way, as to poke fun at them, as some people do.

Colossians 3:21 Fathers, provoke not your children to anger, lest they be discouraged.

James 1:5 Any of you who lacks wisdom must ask God, who gives to all generously and without scolding; it will be given.

There are so many people out there, wanting to Worship, Love & Obey The Almighty GOD & through the teachings of our Beloved Savior Christ Jesus. But are being miss led every day. And don't even have a clue as to realize it.

Why we need to put our hand on their sholder & lovingly explain the truth.

That is why we need to live by the truth, giving into the truth with all that is in us. We must pray to GOD, asking HIM to pour HIS Holy Spirit upon us. We need to stay in control of our own actions. {Genesis 4:7}

For that is the only way we can fight temptation of anykind of sin.

But most of all we kneed the knowledge that only The Almighty GOD can give to us to show us the way & that way is through HIS Son Christ Jesus. {James 1:5}


1 Peter 4:7-13
7 The end of all things is near. Therefore be clear minded and self-controlled so that you
can pray.

8 Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins.

9 Offer hospitality to one another without grumbling.

10 Each one should use whatever gift he has received to serve others, faithfully
administering God's grace in its various forms.

11 If anyone speaks, he should do it as one speaking the very words of God. If anyone
serves, he should do it with the strength God provides, so that in all things God may be
praised through Jesus Christ. To him be the glory and the power for ever and ever. Amen.
Suffering for Being a Christian

12 Dear friends, do not be surprised at the painful trial you are suffering, as though
something strange were happening to you.

13 But rejoice that you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be
overjoyed when his glory is revealed.

 

[Strypes]

Howdee Logan,

Last year I did a great deal of research on Jehovah's Witnesses. One of the Primary doctrines of the watchtower that must be despenced prior to understanding how Jesus' sacrifice "saves" is the FACT that Jesus is not the angel michael incarnate in the body of a human called "Jesus". Jesus IS GOD (Emmanuel= God with us)

I could give you a dozen scriptures to prove my point but I am not here to argue doctrine.

To understand the Love of God and the salvation that comes because of the greatest gift ever given, You have to realize that God is holy. He can not tolerate sin. He is also Just and because we are sinners we can not have relationship with Almighty God and we are guilty (every last one of us including you) and deserve the penalty of death (the wages of sin is death).

God out of his love for us, himself became man, to pay the debt for us. So that ALL (not just 144000) who believe, CAN have a relationship with Almighty God. Jesus is God and Gave HIS life and shed HIS blood (as girl tried to explain) to be the sacrifice that would for all time, provide the means by which salvation is possible. Jesus rose from the dead (literally) to break the power of Death.

Because of God's awesome love and mercy and grace, we (you and I and all who believe) can now exchange our un-righteousness for His righteousness. And therefore come before God as "sinless" and be called "friend". To explain the wonderfulness of that .. I have no words. It comes only by inviteing Jesus by the HOLY Spirit, to be your Lord and savior. It is "relationship" NOT religion!!

Keep seeking truth... and you will find it.

Logan,
I would suggest that you get a bible and just start reading one of the gospels. As you read, ask God to teach you the truth of His Word. He will.