First a Jehovah's Witness, then a Mormon... Now What? =)

[Logan]

Logical??

Thanks so much, everyone, for your wonderful replies. The spirit here is comforting—and I truly appreciate everyone's warm nature. =)

What I don't understand is this: why would God have to turn Himself into a man (Jesus) and sacrifice Himself to Himself in order to pay off a debt incurred by our sins when He's the one who created us that way in the first place?

Lovingly,
Logan

 

[Chad]

Thanks so much, everyone, for your wonderful replies. The spirit here is comforting—and I truly appreciate everyone's warm nature. =)

What I don't understand is this: why would God have to turn Himself into a man (Jesus) and sacrifice Himself to Himself in order to pay off a debt incurred by our sins when He's the one who created us that way in the first place?

Lovingly,
Logan

GOD did not create us as sinners. GOD created us perfectly, it is our error [sin] that we bring upon ourselves, along with the curse of the first sin through Adam and Eve. Where you got the idea that GOD created us as sinners is certainly not coming from the Holy Bible at all. That's entirely false.

 

[Logan]

Thank you, Chad... but please first answer me this:
Does God know the future?

-Logan

 

[j4jh]

Hello to you. well i might not give you the best answer but i tell you a bit of what i know. first of all i was born and raised as a jew (not with all the belifes and modern stuff but still got some what jewish education also in school, btw i still get though less cuz i am in high school). first sorry for my poor grammer. There was a belife i was raised on which wasnt really explained to me as a child but after my own studies i know, that a man can not face to God or else he will die. never was explained why.. in the bible though Abraham faced to angels of God (and also but its not part of jewish theology though cuz if it was it might look like they belive in Jesus) and also Christ (which referd some times as El Shadi <keeper of the doors of israel>).
basicly he was supposed to die than. (and far as we know christ didnt wear than a form of a human being). but still he wasnt dead. it because he was clean than. (he did made sacrifices and also sacrificed stuff in his life!).
the reason people will die near God in his glory is not also because of the shock of seeing and know it was him (its not a must) but because a sinner can not be near holy the most holy God. he will be sent to hell to be cleaned. (but than he's soul will be destroyed or suffer alot). also in the time of moses he had brother which became the first high priest. Aharon was supposed to be the most clean man than as a high priest that was supposed to be the one who will be very close to God. a sacrificing system was made that was supposed to clean the people of Israel from their sins. Also there was the Yom Kippur (day of cleansing and and forgivness) which was the most holiday at the time of the house's of God. then the high priest only get in to a room which some of God in it revealed to him and he had to say the secret name of God as a part of the ritual than wonder stuff happens (i dont know all what goes on but basicly no one remember the name after they go out from the temple). the sacrifices of the temple for cleaning and also later the feast were the usually most current way to be cleaned for sins (and not to go to hell). Jesus which is El shadi in a flesh and blood body died as the ultimate and the last True sacrifice for ages he died instead of the normal sheeps etc. the mass or eucharist is like the eating of the sacrifice after he was sacrificed. what most christians dont do today is accepting christ to their hearts if you pray to christ to forgive you and invite him to be in you in your heart and guide you.. than and only than the holy spirit- the shekinah be inside of you. it was in the first kings of israel it was inside of the prophets and apostles and a few more. after you accept christ as your saviour who died for you than you are cleaned from you sins (ofcourse of you do bad stuff you should pray for guidness and forgivness and cleaning so its harder to repeat the sin or bad thing). than you can also be with and near God without going to hell.

p.s christ himself as a El shadi didnt died but the body yes!
i dont know if the body was ressurected but he might revealed himself not as the body but as El shadi after his apostles and brothers accepted him as saviour cuz then they were clean. (btw when jesus died on the cross not every one know today cuz it was hidden but the temple and the changing strings of the temple stopped to change. the sacrifices were somewhat illegal. basicly when christ died the temple as a cleaning tool was ruined. in the third day (sunday) he became the temple or actually we the belivers are the temple. how come? well we let christ sit in us we are is body(ies) and the shekinah is in us. also ppl keep accepting him and the eucharist is still going on.

 

[Amen!]

Hi, Logan. I am pleased to read in your postings such genuine hunger for the Truth. I share that hunger and would love to share what I've learned so far. Please bear with me as I am not an eloquent communicator. I pray that the Spirit gives me the words you need as I type.

First a little background. My oldest "religious" memory is from approximately age 10. My parents were persuaded by friends to join a CLDS. The Lord lead us (my parents, my 5 siblings and myself) back out of the Mormon environment just a year later. We then began attending various protestant churches until I became old enough to understand I wasn't being sustained by attending church. Years later, after my marriage and the birth of my first daughter, I felt compelled to attend Sunday services again, but just when I became familiar and comfortable with this particular church, they began building and rebuilding it into a palace of sorts. I was put off by the lack of humility. I stopped attending. A couple of years ago, I once again returned to the church environment. This time, it was the bible study group's tendency to discuss politics during Bible study classes that turned me off.

Now, this may sound like (and is) a lot of "excuses" to sleep in on Sundays, but let me tell you an important lesson I've learned since my most recent "excursion". It's not the building or the people inside that brings us into Truth, it's God Himself. It's no longer a religion to me. It's a relationship with Jesus. With all my "issues", God continues to DRAW me, as He is drawing you through your practicality and logic. Sweet, sweet, Brother, your enduring search is proof that God is more powerful than all the logic in the world. Be diligent and of unfailing faith, you will find the Lord, Jesus.

There has been a lot of inspired words posted in response to your questions. I believe God has been glorified many times over in this thread. I would just like to add that just as sacrificing the best lambs atoned for the sins of the OT generations, Jesus was the final Lamb that atoned once and for all for all mankinds sin because He was the most perfect sacrifice, most perfect Lamb ever. Man was guilty and deserved to be on that cross. Out of love for you and me, Jesus went to the cross in innocence for us.

In practical terms, it's like He jumped into a burning building and pulled you out, but remained inside. He shoved you out of the path of an oncoming tractor-trailer only to be struck in your place. He stepped in front of the terrorist's bullet. As for His being raised from the dead, I'm not aware of a single practical scenario that would help you to understand and believe. That's where faith equals salvation. You believe a banana is edible because you've eaten them. You believe taking antibiotics will heal an infection because you've seen it happen. You have never, however, witnessed anyone take their last breath only to hear them speak to you face-to-face, in the flesh, three days after their burial.

The Bible is the Word of God. JW's and LDS's admit that much. Learn what His Word says first and foremost. It's the measuring stick for all other doctrines.

My prayers are with you, Brother.
In Christ,
Amen!