Free Will: Yes or No?

[emily445455]

Even though the girl is presented with two choices really she only has one the father knows she will take the ice cream and thats all she was ever going to take.

Right, God presents us with choices, but He knows we will only choose one.

THat little story helped me understand free-will and God...if it doesn't help you that's fine...it didn't help hubby understand it either, lol.

 

[Maureen]

Maureen you are right when you say we know not what God has planned so to us we have free will but my question is can we by our choices change or alter Gods plans.
God hardened pharoahs heart, pharoah thought he had made the choice to not release israel.
Pilot thought it was his decision to chose whether Jesus lived or died but as we know really he could only ever of put him to death because God had predestined that.

I stand corrected, I mean't I chose the worship to please GOD not me, but I also wanted to be able to express my praise freely, what was I thinking of, sorry.
something I made reference to in my last post.

this is so tricky a subject isn't it.
We have free will, it tells us so in God's word, God knew Adam and Eve would eat the forbidden fruit, but they still chose to do it first.
Even though God knew they would.
But I can still see it as we have our own choice, we choose Jesus or we don't.
I believe we don't until firstly His Holy Spirit comes to us, and touches us, touches us with faith enough to believe and ask.
Therefore, Jesus finds us, not the other way around.

Its a great subject.
Paganm. you haven't come back with an answer, please do.
about 'compromising worship ability', I'm curious to know is it what I explained or not?

 

[Boanerges]

We have choices, God foreknows our choices :

Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to beconformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

All predesitination is by His foreknowledge.

 

[paganmystic]

Sorry Maureen. It was not my intent to ignore your query. My computer crashed about the time I was going to answer this it took about 6 months before I got it fixed and lost all my notes to myself (how embarrassing).

As for each Government as I mentioned we are guaranteed free speech but if what you say compromises an erroneous government message they flood the media with their message drowned out your voice and your voice gets support you are held up to ridicule or arrested under public disturbance laws. Much the same is echoed in religious doctrine.

Jesus told us during his life that he was the light and the only way to his Father's kingdom yet if you believe Catholicism, the pope speaks to God for his people, so what is true, even though the protestant churches found their origin in deposing Catholic authority they still established their own doctrine that makes it mandatory, for salvation is only possible by being saved through their particular believe. They have all even come out with their own versions of the bible, essentially they are the same except for the parts of the doctrine they claim will save you. They all claim to be gospel based except for where they change the gospel to suit their need. Meanwhile it comes too just a handful of men managing this control of us. We are also told about the mystical messages in the Gospel that only highly trained scholars and theologians can understand. Look at the Gospel of John. Jesus discussing the Father and the Son. John 6:45-46 For had you believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall you believe my words? Now let’s look at Matthew 16:11 The heading is the Pharisees and Sadducees and Their Influence it discusses the leaven of the Pharisees but its about a warning of what they are teaching, what we know as Jewish Law. How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees? In verse 12 Matthew explains the leaven is the doctrine preached in Jewish Law. Jewish Law is not the only religious practices Jesus stood against. We see that in Mark 7:7 Howbeit (to fear) in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. This is directly stated also by verse 6 Well hath Isaiah prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. This ties directly to what we are told in John 6, Although it specifies Moses, the same is true of Isaiah, Daniel, Ezekiel and Samuel. All discussed God’s forgiveness and mercy, they also discussed disobedience and the following of false prophets and prophecies. They are also the canonized version of God’s Law, this covers the first 5 books of the Old Testament plus the major prophets which re-enforced and explained the Laws in the first 5 books. The 5th book, "Deuteronomy" also shows us the strength in loyalty to God. How after weeding out the weak in faith over 40 years in the desert. The Jewish people eradicated all the Canaanites, which included at least 5 major, war mongering tribes to claim their promised land. This is the way Jesus lived when he walked the earth and taught us. The Gospel, followed as it is written, is what Jesus gave us a legacy for our lives. There is nothing mystical or miraculous about it, just to care for others as we would have others care about us.

To deny the life Jesus lead while he walked the Earth quiet frankly is to deny Jesus completely. That sounds harsh but look at world around you now. We know that we have to surrender our lives to God and Jesus completely to receive the Spirit and have our lives washed clean and begin anew, in Christ.

 

[dchena]

Sorry, I haven't read everyone's posts. There is way too many, so I hope I'm not being repetative.

Thinking out loud here. A conversation. Not statements of conclusion.

I don't think we have free will.

What exactly is our 'will' ? Is the same thing as choice? I don't know for sure, but I'm thinking they're not the same thing. Choice is exercising our will, but 'will' seems like something much bigger than freedom of choice. Will is power.

I had an experience where I felt the will of God in and over me. It was the same thing as power. I'm still thinking on that one. I only felt a smidgen of it, but God's will is powerful stuff. I felt what he wanted in that moment, and it happened. Nothing can stop the will of God when he exercises it. That's my human explanation and understanding. God is in control, ALL OF THE TIME.

We either submit to God's will, or we don't. When we don't, we are in bondage to the enemy. That is repeated in the Bible many times in different ways, though I don't know of the appropriate scripture. We're never really on our own, with our own will. It's either one or the other. Submit to the wonderful master who adopts us and gives us freedom, or to the enemy who controls us and holds us in limitation through bondage. It's like giving a slave the choice between a good master, or a bad one. They can choose, but still belong to one or the other. And still, since they are a slave, they can only choose if given the choice. They don't have power. They don't have control. So by God's will, I choose God.

I don't know about you guys, but I did not choose God on my own, he chose me. On my own, there is no way I could have come to even be aware of this new reality in Christ. It was a passive event for me. My experience is that God chose me, and he did it in a way that was perfect for me, but I don't think I really had a choice. It was my time, and he came for me and rescued me. I would still be dead, had he not exercised his will within me. And isn't it true that God's work in us leads us to repentance? And isn't it true that God is responsible for all growth? He draws us to him, and by his will, gives us the choice, and by his will we choose.

I think our 'will' is designed for devotion, not freedom. And that is why we either belong to God, or to the enemy. And that is why God's most important covenant requirement is to love God above all else. If we are not devoted to God, we are devoting ourselves to something ungodly. And we suffer. Devote ourself to God, and we are blessed with his glory and power and grace and freedom that only he can give us. But it's ALL by God's will, in my opinion. Our power is in devotion. Our ONLY true power is in devotion. To God, and it blossoms and grows beyond boundaries and measure. To the enemy, and it withers and we die.

I'm thinking that the idea and desireability of a 'free will' are a lie from the mouth of the enemy. That is evident in Genesis 3.

dchena

 

[iamamazed]

I would love to ask Judas this question. Interesting thread.

 

[Maureen]

I don't believe we will ever be given the opportunity to ever ask him.

We wouldn't want to be were he has gone.

 

[jiggyfly]

Sorry, I haven't read everyone's posts. There is way too many, so I hope I'm not being repetative.

Thinking out loud here. A conversation. Not statements of conclusion.

I don't think we have free will.

What exactly is our 'will' ? Is the same thing as choice? I don't know for sure, but I'm thinking they're not the same thing. Choice is exercising our will, but 'will' seems like something much bigger than freedom of choice. Will is power.

I had an experience where I felt the will of God in and over me. It was the same thing as power. I'm still thinking on that one. I only felt a smidgen of it, but God's will is powerful stuff. I felt what he wanted in that moment, and it happened. Nothing can stop the will of God when he exercises it. That's my human explanation and understanding. God is in control, ALL OF THE TIME.

We either submit to God's will, or we don't. When we don't, we are in bondage to the enemy. That is repeated in the Bible many times in different ways, though I don't know of the appropriate scripture. We're never really on our own, with our own will. It's either one or the other. Submit to the wonderful master who adopts us and gives us freedom, or to the enemy who controls us and holds us in limitation through bondage. It's like giving a slave the choice between a good master, or a bad one. They can choose, but still belong to one or the other. And still, since they are a slave, they can only choose if given the choice. They don't have power. They don't have control. So by God's will, I choose God.

I don't know about you guys, but I did not choose God on my own, he chose me. On my own, there is no way I could have come to even be aware of this new reality in Christ. It was a passive event for me. My experience is that God chose me, and he did it in a way that was perfect for me, but I don't think I really had a choice. It was my time, and he came for me and rescued me. I would still be dead, had he not exercised his will within me. And isn't it true that God's work in us leads us to repentance? And isn't it true that God is responsible for all growth? He draws us to him, and by his will, gives us the choice, and by his will we choose.

I think our 'will' is designed for devotion, not freedom. And that is why we either belong to God, or to the enemy. And that is why God's most important covenant requirement is to love God above all else. If we are not devoted to God, we are devoting ourselves to something ungodly. And we suffer. Devote ourself to God, and we are blessed with his glory and power and grace and freedom that only he can give us. But it's ALL by God's will, in my opinion. Our power is in devotion. Our ONLY true power is in devotion. To God, and it blossoms and grows beyond boundaries and measure. To the enemy, and it withers and we die.

I'm thinking that the idea and desireability of a 'free will' are a lie from the mouth of the enemy. That is evident in Genesis 3.

dchena

Hi dchena, something you should consider that might change your opinion is that the scriptures clearly show that Christ has a will seperate from Father's will.

Matthew 26:39
*He went on a little farther and fell face down on the ground, praying, “My Father! If it is possible, let this cup of suffering be taken away from me. Yet I want your will, not mine.”

Galatians 3:27
And all who have been united with Christ in baptism have been made like him.

 

[Boanerges]

I would love to ask Judas this question. Interesting thread.

Judas was also predestined according to foreknowledge.

 

[jiggyfly]

Judas was also predestined according to foreknowledge.

I agree Boanerges, much like pharaoh.

 

[Maureen]

Luke 22 v 42
Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.

tis scripture itself.

Even Jesus had His own will, but of course He came to do not His own but the will of His Father's.

I too also would agree that it was Jesus who choose me, His Holy Spirit touches our spirit, it is a miracle in itself.
But the day I was saved, I know no thoughts of being so even entered my head, wasn't till later that day, I found myself in conversation with the Lord, but it was Him who had to have orchestrated it firstly,
I was simply there, and was touched to listen.

He did choose me then,
though Joshua 24 v 15
choose you this day whom ye will serve;to quote just a line.

Shows us 'a choice to make' we must choose Jesus or Satan, today, if we don't live for Jesus then we do for Satan.
I think many people are blinded to this thinking though, I was, until I could spiritually see, and understand it.
Thank you Jesus.