From what exactly did Jesus's sacrifice "save" us?

[B-A-C]

Jesus was making the point that it's impossible for man, who has a sinful nature (the flesh) to live under the Old Covenant Law

We can just agree to disagree on this.

Matt 5:48; "Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Jas_1:25 But one who looks intently at the perfect law, the law of liberty, and abides by it, not having become a forgetful hearer but an effectual doer, this man will be blessed in what he does.

Rom 2:13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.
Jas 1:22 But prove yourselves doers of the word, and not merely hearers who delude themselves.

There were several people in the Bible who were perfect and blameless before God.

Gen 6:9 These are the records of the generations of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, blameless in his time; Noah walked with God.

2Chron 15:17 But the high places were not removed from Israel; nevertheless Asa's heart was blameless all his days.

Job 1:8 The LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered My servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, fearing God and turning away from evil."
Job 2:3 The LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered My servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man fearing God and turning away from evil. And he still holds fast his integrity, although you incited Me against him to ruin him without cause."

Prov 11:20 The perverse in heart are an abomination to the LORD, But the blameless in their walk are His delight.

Luke 1:5 In the days of Herod, king of Judea, there was a priest named Zacharias, of the division of Abijah; and he had a wife from the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elizabeth.
Luke 1:6 They were both righteous in the sight of God, walking blamelessly in all the commandments and requirements of the Lord.

Apparently it was possible for some people, also why would Jesus tell us to be perfect if it was impossible?

Saying, "oh well I cant keep from sinning, even if I wanted to is a perversion of grace".

Jude 1:4 For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

We never have to sin.

1Cor 10:13 No temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man; and God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it.

 

[B-A-C]

Ultimately. because Jesus made a way for those of us who put our complete faith into Him and what He did to save us,

Sorry, I take a more Armenian view.

Matt 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
Matt 7:22 "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
Matt 7:23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

Those who "practice lawlessness" (sin) won't make it. Even if they believe in Jesus. Even demons believe.
They know who Jesus is. ( Mark 1:24; Luke 4:34 )

Jas 2:19 You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.
Jas 2:20 But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?
Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?
Jas 2:22 You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;
Jas 2:23 and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS," and he was called the friend of God.
Jas 2:24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

I believe some works are required. I believe you have to bear some fruit.

Matt 25:26 "But his master answered and said to him, 'You wicked, lazy slave, you knew that I reap where I did not sow and gather where I scattered no seed.
Matt 25:27 'Then you ought to have put my money in the bank, and on my arrival I would have received my money back with interest.
Matt 25:30 "Throw out the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matt 25:45 "Then He will answer them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'
Matt 25:46 "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Just because Jesus is in you and helping you doesn't mean you will automatically bear fruit.

Luke 13:6 And He began telling this parable: "A man had a fig tree which had been planted in his vineyard; and he came looking for fruit on it and did not find any.
Luke 13:7 "And he said to the vineyard-keeper, 'Behold, for three years I have come looking for fruit on this fig tree without finding any. Cut it down! Why does it even use up the ground?'
Luke 13:8 "And he answered and said to him, 'Let it alone, sir, for this year too, until I dig around it and put in fertilizer;
Luke 13:9 and if it bears fruit next year, fine; but if not, cut it down.'"

Matt 7:19 "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
Luke 3:9 "Indeed the axe is already laid at the root of the trees; so every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire."

Some people who are in the kingdom of God will be cast out. Those who still commit lawlessness ( sin ) will be thrown out, and into the fire.

Matt 13:41 "The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness,
Matt 13:42 and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Even Satan was once in heaven.

Luke 10:18 And He said to them, "I was watching Satan fall from heaven like lightning.

 

[Still Learning]

Sorry, I take a more Armenian view.

Matt 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
Matt 7:22 "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
Matt 7:23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

In that Matthew 7:21-23 passage, the people who get denied entrance into the Kingdom of Heaven were all looking to their own good works instead of doing the Father's will by looking to Jesus and the work He did to save us. They gave their righteous deeds as the reason they should be allowed to enter God's Kingdom, but their deeds contain episodes of law-breaking (lawlessness), and it's those who practice lawlessness (sinners) who get rejected. And Isaiah tells us that every single person, because we have all sinned and become unclean, that now, even the very best righteous deeds we perform are nothing but disgusting filthy used menstrual rags in God's sight.

Here's our very best deeds as far as God's concerned.

We have all become like the unclean; ALL OUR RIGHTEOUS DEEDS ARE LIKE A MENSTRUAL RAG. All of us wither like a leaf; our sins, like the wind, carry us away. (Isaiah 64:6)​

​

This is why those in Matthew 7:21-23 are rejected and denied entrance into the Kingdom of Heaven. And, again, Jesus said that ONLY those who DO THE FATHER'S WILL can enter the Kingdom of Heaven. And Jesus tells us very specifically just exactly what the Father's will is where salvation is concerned in John 6:40.

For my Father’s will is that everyone who LOOKS TO THE SON AND BELIEVES IN HIM shall have eternal life, and I will raise THEM up at the last day. (John 6:40)​

​

​

Offering bloody tampons to Jesus as the reason you should be allowed into Heaven is most foolish thing anyone could ever do. So, on your judgment day, I suggest you tell Jesus that the reason you should be granted entrance into the Kingdom is because He purchased you a spot in the Kingdom with His shed blood, and that you are expected there because He made a reservation for you to be there.​

​

And if you want to understand the destiny of those who choose the Law over Jesus as the way to be made right with God, Hebrews 10:28-29 says they deserve a punishment that is worse than death. I can't imagine anything that would insult God more than choosing the Law to make you right with God over Jesus after everything Jesus and His Father suffered through to save you. Seriously, it's tantamount to trampling Jesus underfoot, treating the blood He shed to institute the New Covenant with, which made us holy, as if it were common and unholy, and it insults God's Spirit of grace. Just how much worse of a punishment than the death penalty will that deserve? I shudder to think.​

​

For anyone who refused to obey the law of Moses was put to death without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Just think how much worse the punishment will be for those who have trampled on the Son of God, and have treated the blood of the covenant, which made us holy, as if it were common and unholy, and have insulted and disdained the Holy Spirit who brings God’s mercy to us. (Hebrews 10:28-29)​

​

And as far as Armenian views go, they erroneously claim that the ETERNAL life we receive when we believe that Jesus provides us with eternal life, can be lost. Which would make eternal life not be eternal life but merely temporary life. And there is no such thing as temporary eternal life, at least not in the realm of sanity. ​

​

And you really need to understand what the Scriptures say about those who don't believe the testimony that God has given about how eternal life is found in Jesus. The Scriptures say that those people are unsaved unbelieving blasphemers who call God a liar. You really don't want to be one of them.​

​

If we accept human testimony, God’s testimony is greater, because it is God’s testimony that he has given about his Son. The one who believes in the Son of God has this testimony within himself. The one who does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony God has given about his Son. And THIS is the testimony: God has GIVEN us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. (1 John 5:9-11)​

​

I hope this helps.​

 

[KingJ]

From what exactly did Jesus's sacrifice "save" us?​

I think it is important to look at what His sacrifice gives us as that would show what It saves us from.

Mankind is reconciled with God!!.

2 Co 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation.

Many think He saved us from hell. That is not true. We save ourselves from the fires of hell. Before Jesus, sinners who repented of their sins got themselves into Abrahams bosom and sinners who did not repent, had hell Luke 16:19-31.

 

[Twistie]

Sorry, I take a more Armenian view.

Matt 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
Matt 7:22 "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
Matt 7:23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

Those who "practice lawlessness" (sin) won't make it. Even if they believe in Jesus. Even demons believe.
They know who Jesus is. ( Mark 1:24; Luke 4:34 )

Jas 2:19 You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.
Jas 2:20 But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?
Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?
Jas 2:22 You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;
Jas 2:23 and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS," and he was called the friend of God.
Jas 2:24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

I believe some works are required. I believe you have to bear some fruit.

Matt 25:26 "But his master answered and said to him, 'You wicked, lazy slave, you knew that I reap where I did not sow and gather where I scattered no seed.
Matt 25:27 'Then you ought to have put my money in the bank, and on my arrival I would have received my money back with interest.
Matt 25:30 "Throw out the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matt 25:45 "Then He will answer them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'
Matt 25:46 "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Just because Jesus is in you and helping you doesn't mean you will automatically bear fruit.

Luke 13:6 And He began telling this parable: "A man had a fig tree which had been planted in his vineyard; and he came looking for fruit on it and did not find any.
Luke 13:7 "And he said to the vineyard-keeper, 'Behold, for three years I have come looking for fruit on this fig tree without finding any. Cut it down! Why does it even use up the ground?'
Luke 13:8 "And he answered and said to him, 'Let it alone, sir, for this year too, until I dig around it and put in fertilizer;
Luke 13:9 and if it bears fruit next year, fine; but if not, cut it down.'"

Matt 7:19 "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
Luke 3:9 "Indeed the axe is already laid at the root of the trees; so every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire."

Some people who are in the kingdom of God will be cast out. Those who still commit lawlessness ( sin ) will be thrown out, and into the fire.

Matt 13:41 "The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness,
Matt 13:42 and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Even Satan was once in heaven.

Luke 10:18 And He said to them, "I was watching Satan fall from heaven like lightning.

Without faith it is impossible to please God idk what an American view is but no faith no Grace..

O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain. He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith

(⁠✿⁠^⁠‿⁠^⁠)

 

[Twistie]

all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.

without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God

What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Now in the morning as he returned into the city, he hungered.

And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away.

⊂⁠(⁠◉⁠‿⁠◉⁠)⁠つ

 

[Still Learning]

Yes, Galatians is so clear. Be blessed, truthful one.

 

[Still Learning]

Without faith it is impossible to please God idk what an American view is but no faith no Grace..

O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain. He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith

I came to this forum because I was seeking insights about the realm of the flesh and the realm of the Spirit. I'm convinced that the realm of the Spirit is the "New Covenant of the Spirit." But I'm only pretty sure that the realm of the flesh is the "Old Covenant 10 Commandments/Law". And as I read that Galatians verse you cited, it gives me confidence that the realm of the flesh is the Old Covenant 10 Commandments/Law.

Here's the verse you cited. I'll highlight where it gave me confidence that the realm of the flesh is the Old Covenant Law/Commandments:

O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of THE LAW, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by THE FLESH? Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain. He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? (Galatians 3:1-5)​

​

Paul definitely associates the Law with the flesh, there. And in 2 Corinthians 3:6-9 he definitely says the New Covenant is of the Spirit that brings life and a right standing with God, and contrasts it with the Old Covenant 10 Commandments/Law which brings death and condemnation. So I'm now assured that the Old Covenant 10 Commandments/Law is the realm of the flesh, and the New Covenant of the Spirit is the realm of the Spirit.

​

He has enabled us to be ministers of his NEW COVENANT. This is a covenant not of written laws, but OF THE SPIRIT. The old written covenant ends in death; but UNDER THE NEW COVENANT, THE SPIRIT GIVES LIFE. THE OLD WAY, WITH LAWS ETCHED IN STONE, LED TO DEATH, though it began with such glory that the people of Israel could not bear to look at Moses’ face. For his face shone with the glory of God, even though the brightness was already fading away. Shouldn’t we expect far greater glory under THE NEW WAY, now that the Holy Spirit is GIVING LIFE? If THE OLD WAY, WHICH BRINGS CONDEMNATION, was glorious, how much more glorious is THE NEW WAY, WHICH MAKES US RIGHT WITH GOD! (2 Corinthians 3:6-9)​

​

And in Romans 8:6-10 Paul talks about how that in the realm of the flesh we can't keep the Law, but that in the realm of the Spirit we have life and peace with God. That's really very much the same thing as he teaches in Galatians.

The mind governed BY THE FLESH IS DEATH, but the mind governed BY THE SPIRIT IS LIFE AND PEACE. The mind governed by THE FLESH IS HOSTILE TO GOD; IT DOES NOT SUBMIT TO GOD'S LAW, NOR CAN IT DO SO. (Romans 8:6-7)​

​

Those who are in the realm of THE FLESH CANNOT PLEASE GOD. (Romans 8:8)​

​

You, however, are NOT in the realm of the flesh but ARE in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed THE SPIRIT of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. (Romans 8:9)​

​

I want to thank you for posting that Galatians verse. It was exactly the verse I needed to see so as to help me gain the insight into a truth that I only suspected of being true. Now, I'm confident in that truth. God just used you to answer my prayer to help me find what I was seeking. I hope you receive a massive reward in Heaven and a tremendous blessing here on Earth. You have edified me and I'm very grateful.

 

[Twistie]

I came to this forum because I was seeking insights about the realm of the flesh and the realm of the Spirit. I'm convinced that the realm of the Spirit is the "New Covenant of the Spirit." But I'm only pretty sure that the realm of the flesh is the "Old Covenant 10 Commandments/Law". And as I read that Galatians verse you cited, it gives me confidence that the realm of the flesh is the Old Covenant 10 Commandments/Law.

Here's the verse you cited. I'll highlight where it gave me confidence that the realm of the flesh is the Old Covenant Law/Commandments:

O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of THE LAW, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by THE FLESH? Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain. He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? (Galatians 3:1-5)​

​

Paul definitely associates the Law with the flesh, there. And in 2 Corinthians 3:6-9 he definitely says the New Covenant is of the Spirit that brings life and a right standing with God, and contrasts it with the Old Covenant 10 Commandments/Law which brings death and condemnation. So I'm now assured that the Old Covenant 10 Commandments/Law is the realm of the flesh, and the New Covenant of the Spirit is the realm of the Spirit.

​

He has enabled us to be ministers of his NEW COVENANT. This is a covenant not of written laws, but OF THE SPIRIT. The old written covenant ends in death; but UNDER THE NEW COVENANT, THE SPIRIT GIVES LIFE. THE OLD WAY, WITH LAWS ETCHED IN STONE, LED TO DEATH, though it began with such glory that the people of Israel could not bear to look at Moses’ face. For his face shone with the glory of God, even though the brightness was already fading away. Shouldn’t we expect far greater glory under THE NEW WAY, now that the Holy Spirit is GIVING LIFE? If THE OLD WAY, WHICH BRINGS CONDEMNATION, was glorious, how much more glorious is THE NEW WAY, WHICH MAKES US RIGHT WITH GOD! (2 Corinthians 3:6-9)​

​

And in Romans 8:6-10 Paul talks about how that in the realm of the flesh we can't keep the Law, but that in the realm of the Spirit we have life and peace with God. That's really very much the same thing as he teaches in Galatians.

The mind governed BY THE FLESH IS DEATH, but the mind governed BY THE SPIRIT IS LIFE AND PEACE. The mind governed by THE FLESH IS HOSTILE TO GOD; IT DOES NOT SUBMIT TO GOD'S LAW, NOR CAN IT DO SO. (Romans 8:6-7)​

​

Those who are in the realm of THE FLESH CANNOT PLEASE GOD. (Romans 8:8)​

​

You, however, are NOT in the realm of the flesh but ARE in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed THE SPIRIT of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. (Romans 8:9)​

​

I want to thank you for posting that Galatians verse. It was exactly the verse I needed to see so as to help me gain the insight into a truth that I only suspected of being true. Now, I'm confident in that truth. God just used you to answer my prayer to help me find what I was seeking. I hope you receive a massive reward in Heaven and a tremendous blessing here on Earth. You have edified me and I'm very grateful.

Aww I just so love when what the Lord is teaching me is confirmed it's like a big ole bulb was finally turned on is the only way I can explain how it feels to another
thank you for allowing me to know the Lord deemed me worthy to be used....

⊂⁠(⁠´⁠･⁠◡⁠･⁠⊂⁠ ⁠)⁠∘⁠˚⁠˳⁠°

 

[Still Learning]

Aww I just so love when what the Lord is teaching me is confirmed it's like a big ole bulb was finally turned on is the only way I can explain how it feels to another
thank you for allowing me to know the Lord deemed me worthy to be used....

Just two of God's children working together in the service of our Lord. I'm happy that I could return the favor.

 

[B-A-C]

Yes, Galatians is so clear. Be blessed, truthful one.

Apparently not. What is Galatians about? What are the works of the law it is talking about?

Gal 2:3 But not even Titus, who was with me, though he was a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised.
Gal 2:7 But on the contrary, seeing that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been to the circumcised
Gal 2:8 (for He who effectually worked for Peter in his apostleship to the circumcised effectually worked for me also to the Gentiles),
Gal 2:9 and recognizing the grace that had been given to me, James and Cephas and John, who were reputed to be pillars, gave to me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, so that we might go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.
Gal 6:12 Those who desire to make a good showing in the flesh try to compel you to be circumcised, simply so that they will not be persecuted for the cross of Christ.
Gal 6:13 For those who are circumcised do not even keep the Law themselves, but they desire to have you circumcised so that they may boast in your flesh.

Gal 2:12 For prior to the coming of certain men from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he began to withdraw and hold himself aloof, fearing the party of the circumcision.
Gal 5:2 Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you.
Gal 5:3 And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law.
Gal 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.
Gal 5:11 But I, brethren, if I still preach circumcision, why am I still persecuted? Then the stumbling block of the cross has been abolished.
Gal 6:15 For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation.

What is a "work of the flesh"? Your foreskin is the flesh.

Gal 2:16 nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

Galatians never says the moral law doesn't apply. It's all about circumcision and the ceremonial law.
In fact Paul says...

1Cor 7:18 Was any man called when he was already circumcised? He is not to become uncircumcised. Has anyone been called in uncircumcision? He is not to be circumcised.
1Cor 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.

 

[Dylan569]

"As we have said before, so now I repeat, if anyone proclaims to you a gospel contrary to what you received, let that one be accursed!" (Gal 1:9 NRSVue)
"Once again I testify to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obliged to obey the entire law. You who want to be reckoned as righteous by the law have cut yourselves off from Christ; you have fallen away from grace." (Gal 5:3-4 NRSVue) *Galatians is not just about circumcision, but the whole law!

 

[B-A-C]

lets himself be circumcised

but the whole law!

Only if you're circumcised to meet the obligation of it.

 

[Dylan569]

Only if you're circumcised to meet the obligation of it.

?? Circumcision represented Judaism. In Genesis 17 we read about circumcision being instituted, long before the giving of the law with Moses, it came to represent the Old Covenant faith, including the law. To be of the circumcision was to be of the Jewish party who held to the law of Moses.

"Paul uses the term concision for this outward circumcision unaccompanied by any spiritual change (Php 3:2). The question of circumcision occasioned a protracted strife among the early Christians. Judaizing Christians argued for the necessity of circumcision. It was a reminiscence of the unrelenting particularism which had sprung up during the prolonged oppression of the Greek and Roman period. According to their view salvation was of the Jews and for the Jews. It was necessary to become a Jew in order to become a Christian."
International Standard Bible Encyclopedia.

 

[Still Learning]

Apparently not. What is Galatians about? What are the works of the law it is talking about?

Gal 2:3 But not even Titus, who was with me, though he was a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised.
Gal 2:7 But on the contrary, seeing that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been to the circumcised
Gal 2:8 (for He who effectually worked for Peter in his apostleship to the circumcised effectually worked for me also to the Gentiles),
Gal 2:9 and recognizing the grace that had been given to me, James and Cephas and John, who were reputed to be pillars, gave to me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, so that we might go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.
Gal 6:12 Those who desire to make a good showing in the flesh try to compel you to be circumcised, simply so that they will not be persecuted for the cross of Christ.
Gal 6:13 For those who are circumcised do not even keep the Law themselves, but they desire to have you circumcised so that they may boast in your flesh.

Gal 2:12 For prior to the coming of certain men from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he began to withdraw and hold himself aloof, fearing the party of the circumcision.
Gal 5:2 Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you.
Gal 5:3 And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law.
Gal 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.
Gal 5:11 But I, brethren, if I still preach circumcision, why am I still persecuted? Then the stumbling block of the cross has been abolished.
Gal 6:15 For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation.

What is a "work of the flesh"? Your foreskin is the flesh.

Gal 2:16 nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

Galatians never says the moral law doesn't apply. It's all about circumcision and the ceremonial law.
In fact Paul says...

1Cor 7:18 Was any man called when he was already circumcised? He is not to become uncircumcised. Has anyone been called in uncircumcision? He is not to be circumcised.
1Cor 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.

It's obvious that you are still living in the realm of the flesh and are dead to the realm of the Spirit.

He has enabled us to be ministers of his new covenant. This is a covenant not of written laws, but of the Spirit. The old written covenant ends in death; but under the new covenant, the Spirit gives life. The old way, WITH LAWS ETCHED IN STONE, led to death, though it began with such glory that the people of Israel could not bear to look at Moses’ face. For his face shone with the glory of God, even though the brightness was already fading away. Shouldn’t we expect far greater glory under the new way, now that the Holy Spirit is giving life? If the old way, WHICH BRINGS CONDEMNATION, was glorious, how much more glorious is the new way, which makes us right with God! In fact, that first glory was not glorious at all compared with the overwhelming glory of the new way. (2 Corinthians 3:6-10)​

I choose not to be condemned to death by the Laws etched in stone, and to partake of the New Covenant of the Spirit, because being led by the Spirit is much better.

But if you are led by the spirit, you are not under the control of the law. (Galatians 5:18)​

It's clear that you only want to argue about the Law. I have no interest in that waste of my time. I only want to show people how to live in the Spirit just like the apostles and the New Covenant Scriptures argue that we should.

But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless. Warn a divisive person once, and then warn them a second time. After that, have nothing to do with them. (Titus 3:9-10)​

I'm living in the realm of the Spirit where I am guided by the Spirit because I've been born again of the Holy Spirit into the New Covenant of the Spirit. This pleases God. You can choose to live differently under the Law if you think it best for you. But I'm not interested in your sick hearted divisive spirit, so I'm going to ignore you now. But I'll pray for you to get that heart transplant that you so desperately need because you truly need help but are refusing to receive it. Good bye.

 

[Still Learning]

all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.

without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God

What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Now in the morning as he returned into the city, he hungered.

And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away.

⊂⁠(⁠◉⁠‿⁠◉⁠)⁠つ

"And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away."​

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Reminds me of Adam and Eve covering their nakedness with nothing but fig leaves. It's tragic how many "trees" there are that are supposed to be producing fruit, but are producing nothing but leaves.​

 

[B-A-C]

It's obvious that you are still living in the realm of the flesh and are dead to the realm of the Spirit.

It's obvious who is a liar.

1Jn 2:3 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.
1Jn 2:4 The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;

 

[Marston]

On second thought I'll share some more and the reader can accept or reject. I will say that the original scriptures did NOT preach "eternal, forever, everlasting" punishment, separation, torment, etc.

Here is a list of verses. I didn't create this list and they are not verbatim. However, they demonstrate the plethora of scriptures that show that ALL who ever existed will eventually be in God's Kingdom.

Genesis 12:3 --- All peoples on earth will be blessed through Abraham.
Genesis 22:18 --- All nations on earth will be blessed through Abraham’s offspring.
Psalms 22:27 --- All the ends of the earth and all the families of the nations will acknowledge God.
Psalms 65:2 --- All men will come to God.
Psalms 86:9 --- All nations will worship and glorify God.
Psalms 103:8-9 --- God is compassionate, will not always accuse and will not be angry forever.
Psalms 145:9-10 --- The Lord has compassion on all His creation and all He has made will praise Him.
Psalms 145:13 --- The Lord loves all His creation.
Psalms 145:14 --- The Lord upholds all who fall.
Isaiah 25:6-8 --- God will prepare a feast for all people, He will destroy the shroud that enfolds all peoples, the sheet that covers up all nations. He will eliminate death, wipe away the tears from all faces and remove the disgrace of his people from all the earth.
Isaiah 45:22-23 --- God has sworn an oath that every knee will bow before Him and every tongue will swear by Him.
Isaiah 49:6 --- God’s salvation will be brought to the ends of the earth.
Isaiah 54:8 --- Although God will hide His face in a surge of anger, He will also have compassion with everlasting kindness.
Isaiah 57:16-18 --- God’s anger is not permanent. Although He punishes man, He will heal, guide and restore comfort to him.
Jeremiah 31:33-34 --- All men will know God, from the greatest to the least.
Lamentations 3:31-33 --- The Lord does not cast off forever. Although He brings grief, he will also be compassionate.
Ezekiah 18:21 --- God does not any pleasure in the death of the wicked. Rather, He is pleased when they repent.
Micah 7:18 --- God does not stay angry forever.
Matthew 18:13 --- Like the man who owes a hundred sheep and is not willing to lose even one, God is not willing that any one be lost.
Luke 2:10 --- The birth of Jesus is good news for all the people.
Luke 3: 5, 6 --- John the Baptist quotes Isaiah’s words that all mankind will see God’s salvation.
John 1:29 --- Jesus is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.
John 3:35 --- God sent Jesus to save the world.
John 4:42 --- God has committed all things to Christ.
John 5:25 --- Even the dead will hear the sound of Christ and all who hear will live.
John 6:37 --- Everything that God has given to Christ will come to him.
John 12:32 --- When Jesus is lifted up from the earth, he will draw all men to himself.
John 12:47 --- Jesus came to save the world.
John 17:2 --- God granted Christ authority over all people so that Christ may give eternal life to all that God has given him.
Acts 3:20-21 --- Jesus must remain in heaven until the time comes for God to restore everything.
Romans 3:3-4 --- The unbelief of some will not nullify God’s faithfulness.
Romans 5:18 --- The act of obedience of one man (Jesus) will bring life for all men.
Romans 8:19-21 --- Creation itself will be liberated and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.
Romans 8:38-39 --- Nothing can separate us from the love of God that is in Christ.
Romans 11:32 --- God made all people imprisoned by disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
1 Corinthians 15:22-28 --- All will be made alive in Christ, but each in his own turn and ultimately Christ will subdue all his enemies, eliminate death and God will be all in all.
2 Corinthians 5:15 --- Christ died for all.
2 Corinthians 5:19 --- Through Christ, God was reconciling the world to Himself.
Ephesians 1:11 --- God will bring all things under heaven and on earth under Christ.
Ephesians 4:10 --- Christ ascended higher then all the heavens to fill the whole universe.
Philippians. 2:9-11 --- Every tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord (In 1 Corinthians 12:3, Paul writes that no one can say “Jesus is Lord” except by the Holy Spirit)
Colossians 1: 19-20 --- God was pleased to reconcile to Himself, all things on earth and in heaven through the blood of Christ.
1 Timothy 2:4-6 --- God wants all men to be saved and to know the truth. Can God’s desire be thwarted?
1 Timothy 4:10 --- God is the Saviour of all men, especially (not exclusively) those who believe.
Titus 2:11-12 --- God’s grace, which brings salvation has appeared to all men.
Hebrews 2:9 --- Jesus tasted death for everyone.
1 John 2:2 --- Christ is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only ours but of the sins of the whole world.
1 John 3:8 --- Christ appeared to destroy the devil’s works.
1 John 4:14 --- Christ is the Saviour of the world.
Revelation 5:13 --- Every creature in heaven, on earth, under the earth, and on the sea will sing praises to him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb (Christ).
Revelation 21:4-5 --- God will dwell with men and he will wipe every tear from their eyes, death, mourning, crying, pain and the old order of things will pass and everything will be made new.

 

[th1bill]

It's obvious that you are still living in the realm of the flesh and are dead to the realm of the Spirit.

He has enabled us to be ministers of his new covenant. This is a covenant not of written laws, but of the Spirit. The old written covenant ends in death; but under the new covenant, the Spirit gives life. The old way, WITH LAWS ETCHED IN STONE, led to death, though it began with such glory that the people of Israel could not bear to look at Moses’ face. For his face shone with the glory of God, even though the brightness was already fading away. Shouldn’t we expect far greater glory under the new way, now that the Holy Spirit is giving life? If the old way, WHICH BRINGS CONDEMNATION, was glorious, how much more glorious is the new way, which makes us right with God! In fact, that first glory was not glorious at all compared with the overwhelming glory of the new way. (2 Corinthians 3:6-10)​

I choose not to be condemned to death by the Laws etched in stone, and to partake of the New Covenant of the Spirit, because being led by the Spirit is much better.

But if you are led by the spirit, you are not under the control of the law. (Galatians 5:18)​

It's clear that you only want to argue about the Law. I have no interest in that waste of my time. I only want to show people how to live in the Spirit just like the apostles and the New Covenant Scriptures argue that we should.

But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless. Warn a divisive person once, and then warn them a second time. After that, have nothing to do with them. (Titus 3:9-10)​

I'm living in the realm of the Spirit where I am guided by the Spirit because I've been born again of the Holy Spirit into the New Covenant of the Spirit. This pleases God. You can choose to live differently under the Law if you think it best for you. But I'm not interested in your sick hearted divisive spirit, so I'm going to ignore you now. But I'll pray for you to get that heart transplant that you so desperately need because you truly need help but are refusing to receive it. Good bye.

In John 14:15, we read, “If you love me, you will keep my commandments." In John 1, we learn that nothing on this Earth was created by Him. That means the Ten Commandments are the perfect Word Picture of the Savior and the mage we are to strive to imitate.

The Law is not our Slave Master but it is the photo we imitate, to seek to obey because we love Him and every word of the Scriptures are Hs Word.

Food for thought.

 

[Still Learning]

In John 14:15, we read, “If you love me, you will keep my commandments." In John 1, we learn that nothing on this Earth was created by Him. That means the Ten Commandments are the perfect Word Picture of the Savior and the mage we are to strive to imitate.

The Law is not our Slave Master but it is the photo we imitate, to seek to obey because we love Him and every word of the Scriptures are Hs Word.

Food for thought.

I love the Old Covenant 10 Commandments/Law. They are wonderful. They are perfect, except for the fact that they were weakened by mankind's flesh's inability to be made right through the Old Covenant 10 Commandments/Law due to the fact that we couldn't keep them in the flesh. And that is precisely why Jesus was manifested in the flesh. He came to destroy the works of the devil (sin) in our lives. Praise Jesus for accomplishing that! \o/

He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. (1 John 3:8)​

​

Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. (Romans 8:1-2)​

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For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. (Romans 8:3-4)​

​

Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. (Romans 8:5-6)​

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The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. (Romans 8:7)​

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Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God. You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. (Romans 8:8-9)​

You see, the Old Covenant 10 Commandments/Law did its job perfectly in my case, because it drove me to Jesus to remedy that I was hopelessly lost according to the Old Covenant 10 Commandments/Law. I choose to be led by the Spirit in the realm of the Spirit by being born again of the Spirit into the New Covenant of the Spirit rather than being led by the Old Covenant 10 Commandments/Law which bring a guarantee of death and condemnation to anyone and everyone who is under the Old Covenant 10 Commandments/Law.

It's definitely better to be led by the Spirit. And the Spirit never leads me to do wrong. So, I've died to my self, to my flesh, to sin, to the world, and to the Old Covenant 10 Commandments/Law, so that I was able to be born again of God and His Holy Spirit, and to new and eternal life with God's/Christ's perfect righteousness for all of eternity in God's Heavenly Kingdom, enjoying being in a strong, healthy, loving relationship, peacefully, in the amazing grace of God.

And as far as 1 John 14:15 goes, those who try to make it seem that Jesus is telling us that we must keep His commandments, or else! They're reading that verse backwards as if He's saying we will suffer condemnation and destruction for any disobedience. But that's not what Jesus is saying at all:

• If you love me, you will keep my commandments. (John 14:15)

I'd like to point out that Jesus wasn't/isn't threatening anybody with punishment. He's just stating the fact that if we love Him, we will obey His commandments BECAUSE WE LOVE HIM and want to please Him. We are NOT to be obedient out of fear of punishment. Those who are fearful lack the saving faith that we must possess.

• We have come TO KNOW and believe the love God has for us. God is love. If you live in love, you live by the help of God and God lives in you. Love is made perfect in us when we are confident on the day of judgment. For we know that our life in this world is His life lived in us. There is no fear in love. Perfect love puts fear out of our hearts. People have fear when they are afraid of being punished. THE MAN WHO IS AFRAID DOES NOT HAVE PERFECT LOVE. (1 John 4:16-18)

I hope this edifies and blesses you. This was said from the heart. And I truly want for you, and any others reading this, to understand how to live in God's love and grace in perfect peace and righteousness for the rest of eternity. And I know that that isn't possible in the realm of the flesh Old Covenant 10 Commandments/Law which brings death and condemnation to all who partake of it.

Think of how in the Garden of Eden there were two very specific trees mentioned. The Tree of Life, and the tree of Death (the Tree of the Knowledge Between Good and Evil). Consider that they were put there by God to teach a spiritual lesson where the Tree Of Life represents Jesus, and the Tree of the Knowledge Between Good and Evil that brought death to all who partake of it, as the Law. God is well known to use similitudes to illustrate spiritual lessons played out in the physical world.

I have also spoken unto the prophets, and I have multiplied visions; and by the ministry of the prophets have I used similitudes. (Hosea 12:10)​