Gifts & Callings of God Is Without Repentance?

[God's Truth]

Of course we do. That is what Jesus taught.

You say of course we do but then you teach against Jesus on how to get saved.

What is your definition of repentance?

You say just coming to Jesus and believing is repentance!
Just as I have been explaining to you many times.

I am going to make a post to you after this one that might help you understand better.

And what do you see as my definition of repentance?

Again, you teach that we do nothing but believe.
And then AFTER believing, you teach we are then saved and then start obeying.

 

[God's Truth]

@Jesus_is_LORD

As we can see from the New Testament, the faith alone misunderstanding was around even back then in the Bible New Testament times.

Luther taught the false faith alone doctrine after leaving the Catholic denomination, and then Calvin made it even worse by teaching that even having faith is to do something!...so he then taught that even faith was a work that usurped God's power...and that is what the Calvinists believe, they believe that God saves them first and this is why they then can believe---AFTER Jesus saves them.

Luther says oh do nothing but believe to be saved or you will have a works salvation and not of grace. That is Luther teaching faith alone.

It is a false teaching.

I would love to prove that to you more with scripture.

However, right now, I am explaining to you about Luther and Calvin.

So Luther taught don't do anything but believe...faith alone.

Then later Calvin comes along and says wait a minute, he says to believe BUT to believe is a work too, so we cannot believe that we have to believe but that WHEN WE DO BELIEVE it is ONLY BECAUSE WE ARE ALREADY SAVED.


Do you see now what I have been trying to explain?

 

[Mister]

The repentance isn't ours in this case. Repentance means change, change of heart, change of mind, change of behavior.
God isn't going to change His mind about this. He has a plan, a calling, a purpose for you.
This plan and purpose isn't going to change.

I give God the glory when I am able to repent for it is His goodness that leads me to it. It really is not of my doing, but He that lives and works in me! Rom 2:4. It is His! For His glory. Dare I steal the glory of the King?

 

[God's Truth]

I give God the glory when I am able to repent for it is His goodness that leads me to it. It really is not of my doing, but He that lives and works in me! Rom 2:4. It is His! For His glory. Dare I steal the glory of the King?

Jesus doesn't work in anyone until they repent of their sins first.

It is a false humbleness to brag how you didn't obey.

 

[God's Truth]

@Jesus_is_LORD


Lutherans are from the faith alone sect, and the Calvinists are from the no way we can't say we did anything sect.

The Lutherans and the Calvinists are in a contest to see who can say they obeyed God the least to get saved.

Jesus: Believe and obey me by repenting of your sins to get saved.

Lutherans: I will believe in you Jesus but I will not obey, for that would usurp your power, so I believe and then maybe I will repent after you save me.

Calvinists: I will not believe and obey you and repent of my sins, Jesus, because believing is also a work and we can't obey anything, and if I do believe and obey you, it is because you saved me before you created me.

 

[B-A-C]

Yes there are plenty of scriptures that say we need to repent. I'm not contradicting that in any way.

Matt 3:2 "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."
Matt 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach and say, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."
Matt 11:20 Then He began to denounce the cities in which most of His miracles were done, because they did not repent.
Mark 1:15 and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel."
Mark 6:12 They went out and preached that men should repent.
Luke 13:3 "I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.
Luke 13:5 "I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish."

Acts 2:38 Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 3:19 "Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord;
Acts 8:22 "Therefore repent of this wickedness of yours, and pray the Lord that, if possible, the intention of your heart may be forgiven you.
Acts 17:30 "Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent,
Acts 26:20 but kept declaring both to those of Damascus first, and also at Jerusalem and then throughout all the region of Judea, and even to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds appropriate to repentance.

But Rom 11:29 is not about this. It doesn't have anything to do with our repentance.

 

[God's Truth]

Yes there are plenty of scriptures that say we need to repent. I'm not contradicting that in any way.

Matt 3:2 "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."
Matt 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach and say, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."
Matt 11:20 Then He began to denounce the cities in which most of His miracles were done, because they did not repent.
Mark 1:15 and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel."
Mark 6:12 They went out and preached that men should repent.
Luke 13:3 "I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.
Luke 13:5 "I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish."

Acts 2:38 Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 3:19 "Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord;
Acts 8:22 "Therefore repent of this wickedness of yours, and pray the Lord that, if possible, the intention of your heart may be forgiven you.
Acts 17:30 "Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent,
Acts 26:20 but kept declaring both to those of Damascus first, and also at Jerusalem and then throughout all the region of Judea, and even to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds appropriate to repentance.

But Rom 11:29 is not about this. It doesn't have anything to do with our repentance.

But, a very important BUT, do you believe repent means to confess your sins to Jesus and tell him you don't want to do them anymore?

 

[GodB4Us]

I think I addressed it. Explain more what you are talking about then, and what you think I said and how I could elaborate.

How does Romans 11:29 by the meaning of those words, fit into the context of what you had just described?

Let's put it in this way, if I had taken verse 29 out of context to prove there is no repentance of sins on our part FOR our salvation, then how do you explain verse 29 of what it means by its very words in the context of what it is from?

 

[GodB4Us]

Romans 11:29
(AMPC) For God's gifts and His call are irrevocable. [He never withdraws them when once they are given, and He does not change His mind about those to whom He gives His grace or to whom He sends His call.]
(ASV) For the gifts and the calling of God are not repented of.
(BBE) Because God's selection and his mercies may not be changed.
(CSB) since God’s gracious gifts and calling are irrevocable.
(ESV) For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
(ESV+) For the gifts and R16the calling of God are irrevocable.
(GNB) For God does not change his mind about whom he chooses and blesses.
(GW) God never changes his mind when he gives gifts or when he calls someone.
(HCSB) since God's gracious gifts and calling are irrevocable.
(ISV) For God's gifts and calling never change.
(KJV) For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
(LSV) for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable;
(MKJV) For the free gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
(MSG) God's gifts and God's call are under full warranty—never canceled, never rescinded.
(NAS77) for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
(NAS95) for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
(NET) For the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable.
(NIrV) God does not take back his gifts. He does not change his mind about those he has chosen.
(NIV) for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable.
(NKJV) For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
(NLT) For God’s gifts and his call can never be withdrawn.
(RV) For the gifts and the calling of God are without repentance.

The repentance isn't ours in this case. Repentance means change, change of heart, change of mind, change of behavior.
God isn't going to change His mind about this. He has a plan, a calling, a purpose for you.
This plan and purpose isn't going to change.

That makes a lot of sense, brother. Thank you. So it does not apply to the believer but about God's free gift of eternal life to those that believe in Him to be saved. He will never change His mind on what believing the Good News will do.

 

[complete]

Anyone care to explain verse 29 in context below? I think I have referenced all the verses necessary to understand verse 29 in its context.

Romans 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

Now I am one to believe that the only repentance required at salvation is repenting from unbelief by believing in Him, but in running that race as His disciple, now after having been reconciled, we are required to live that reconciled relationship with God through Jesus Christ to help us lay aside every weight & sin daily to be fruitful by walking in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son.

29 'For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.'

Hello there,

This tells us that in regard to 'the gifts and calling of God' there is no 'repentance' or change of mind on God's part. That is why it is applied to Israel in the verses you have quoted from Romans 11. He will not repent of the gifts given to Israel or the promises made to them, they will be fulfilled to His glory.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[God's Truth]

How does Romans 11:29 by the meaning of those words, fit into the context of what you had just described?

Let's put it in this way, if I had taken verse 29 out of context to prove there is no repentance of sins on our part FOR our salvation, then how do you explain verse 29 of what it means by its very words in the context of what it is from?

Oh, so you think without repentance means we don't have to repent?
No, it means God won't change His mind about letting the Gentiles get saved too.

 

[GodB4Us]

29 'For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.'

Hello there,

This tells us that in regard to 'the gifts and calling of God' there is no 'repentance' or change of mind on God's part. That is why it is applied to Israel in the verses you have quoted from Romans 11. He will not repent of the gifts given to Israel or the promises made to them, they will be fulfilled to His glory.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Yes. @B-A-C had pointed that out earlier, but thank you just the same.

 

[GodB4Us]

Oh, so you think without repentance means we don't have to repent?
No, it means God won't change His mind about letting the Gentiles get saved too.

Just wanted to see how you would explain it in the context of what you had said it was about but @B-A-C & @complete had explained this that verse 29 was about the Lord not repenting on the gifts & calling in how we are saved by believing in Jesus Christ.

Verse 29 was not about the believer not repenting but God not repenting of the gifts and calling of God of the Good News in Christ Jesus in how by the grace of God we are saved by faith in Jesus Christ..

So thanks anyway. I accept what the Lord has confirmed thru @B-A-C & @complete regarding the application of Romans 11:29

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

Good definition,

So with that definition, you believe that @GodB4Us believes that people don't have to repent ("change their mind about sin")
before coming to Jesus?

Change your mind about sin.
We humans have to repent of our sins.
We have to confess our sins to Jesus and repent of them.

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

Change your mind about sin.
We humans have to repent of our sins.
We have to confess our sins to Jesus and repent of them.


We have to believe everything he says.
We have to believe that he is the one to go through and obey to get to the Father.

Do what Jesus says, come to him for forgiveness of sins by confessing and repenting of your sins to him.

When a person comes to Jesus to be saved, they come to Jesus who is in heaven in the heavenly Jerusalem, they come to Zion.
We have to do what he says to do to get saved, and that is to change like a little child ready to do everything their parent says to do, to humble yourself and admit you are a sinner, be sorry for those sins and confess them and repent of them, tell Jesus you don't want to do those sins anymore and then promise to die to the sins of the world, crucify yourself to sin with Jesus on the cross, and believe that Jesus' blood purifies you and washes those sins away. We are to call on him to help us, to save us, to give us his Spirit, for him to make his home in our heart, to live in us and to place us in him in heaven.

Amen, textbook Christianity. Now look at my other question (in the other post).

 

[God's Truth]

Just wanted to see how you would explain it in the context of what you had said it was about but @B-A-C & @complete had explained this that verse 29 was about the Lord not repenting on the gifts & calling in how we are saved by believing in Jesus Christ.

Verse 29 was not about the believer not repenting but God not repenting of the gifts and calling of God of the Good News in Christ Jesus in how by the grace of God we are saved by faith in Jesus Christ..

So thanks anyway. I accept what the Lord has confirmed thru @B-A-C & @complete regarding the application of Romans 11:29

Are you okay?
I know what the scriptures mean.
You are the one who didn't know and asked.

 

[God's Truth]

Good definition,

So with that definition, you believe that @GodB4Us believes that people don't have to repent ("change their mind about sin")
before coming to Jesus?

He does NOT believe we have to repent of our sins to get saved, AND he didn't understand that scripture, he thought it was about us and not about God.

 

[God's Truth]

Amen, textbook Christianity. Now look at my other question (in the other post).

No, it is not textbook Christianity. The denominations teach either faith alone or Calvinism.
You do NOT teach repent of sins to get saved.
You will have to tell me what you want me to answer. I don't know what other post you are talking about.

 

[GodB4Us]

Amen, textbook Christianity. Now look at my other question (in the other post).

That may be textbook Christianity to you as far as modern evangelicals goes, but how about scripture?

My point is that I cannot find what God's Truth insists on in his quote below scripturally that this is required for any sinner to get saved as if repenting from unbelief by believing in Him requires other types of repentance in order to be saved by Him.

Change your mind about sin.
We humans have to repent of our sins.
We have to confess our sins to Jesus and repent of them.

We have to believe everything he says.
We have to believe that he is the one to go through and obey to get to the Father.

Do what Jesus says, come to him for forgiveness of sins by confessing and repenting of your sins to him.

When a person comes to Jesus to be saved, they come to Jesus who is in heaven in the heavenly Jerusalem, they come to Zion.
We have to do what he says to do to get saved,,,,

Look at the gospel Paul preaches as an example.

Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

So where is God's Truth emphasis on repenting from sins thus changing your mind about sin in order to be saved by Him in Paul's gospel presentation?

Nowhere in sight. BUT now reconciled, saved believers are to be taught by His disciples His commandments as they are to be taught to believe in Him as their Good Shepherd to help them to follow Him in keeping those commandments thus living a life of repentance in living that reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ by walking in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son in being fruitful by His workmanship in our lives in being His disciples.

Again, I cannot see these verses below be applied by God's Truth but reprove him for mixing discipleship in verse 10 below with salvation in verses 8 & 9.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

 

[GodB4Us]

Are you okay?
I know what the scriptures mean.
You are the one who didn't know and asked.

Does it bother you that @B-A-C & @complete was able to answer the question regarding that verse before you did?

It doesn't bother me that you did not give an answer to me when I had asked. It might bother you now, but I'll just send a short prayer up for you now.

1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: