Gifts of the Holy Spirit

[Stylez4Christ]

"Speaking in tongues" has not ceased. It is still practiced by many christians 'round the world. Some denominations preach that "tongues" and healing through the laying on of hands have ceased, based only on the fact that they haven't seen them manifested in a long time. That's like claiming that the automobile doesn't exist because you haven't seen one for a long time.

I've witnessed physical healings and demonic deliverences with my own eyes on a number of occasions. I've prayed in tongues many times, with the Holy Spirit providing the words for prayers He wishes me to utter.


The "Gifts of the Spirit" are still up and running so far as God is concerned, especially in Third World countries where God is often the only doctor around.



SLE

Thats because God is still the same as he was 2,000 years ago

 

[Coconut]

This is excellent teaching! Brother jiggy, God has blessed you (and us) greatly by His gifts to you, we have learned so much from you! (just thought I`d add that, since we often thank God for His blessings, but neglect to bless in return, those He uses to bless us)

I`d love to see all the comments erased (sorry folks ) to bring each part of this teaching together, and this thread posted with a sticky, for easy access on the forum. I know, I`ll ask Chad...I have`nt bugged him about anything yet today


1Co 2:11 For who has knowledge of the things of a man but the spirit of the man which is in him? in the same way, no one has knowledge of the things of God but the Spirit of God.
But we have not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which comes from God, so that we may have knowledge of the things which are freely given to us by God.
And these are the things which we say, not in the language of man's wisdom, but in words given to us by the Spirit, judging the things of the spirit by the help of the Spirit.

 

[aaroncam85]

should all believers speak in tounges and secondly was Jesus speaking literally when he said play with serpants and poison and you wont die. i have heard of churches doing this as a kind of initiation process is that right

 

[SpiritLedEd]

Re: The Gifts of the Holy Spirit

should all believers speak in tounges and secondly was Jesus speaking literally when he said play with serpants and poison and you wont die. i have heard of churches doing this as a kind of initiation process is that right

It is not necessary to speak in topngues to be a believer, but the apostle Paul highly recommends it (see 1 Cor 14:5).

As to Jesus' reference to serpents and poison in Mark 16, He was speaking of accidental encounters. We have to remember the living conditions of the time and place. In those days, people were more prone to accidental encounters with poisonous snakes and poisonous liquids than we are in western civilization today. And I suspect that that remains true in the Third World of our time.

As to the snake-handling cults; sadly, I must admit that they still exist in the southern part of my state of Kentucky and in Tennessee even though such practices have been outlawed. Every once in awhile our local newspaper tells us of an encounter one of those folks had which the rattlesnake won.

SLE

 

[mzsgrogg]

This is awesome... Thank you , Thank you.

 

[ServantOfYHWH]

It is not necessary to speak in topngues to be a believer, but the apostle Paul highly recommends it (see 1 Cor 14:5).

As to Jesus' reference to serpents and poison in Mark 16, He was speaking of accidental encounters. We have to remember the living conditions of the time and place. In those days, people were more prone to accidental encounters with poisonous snakes and poisonous liquids than we are in western civilization today. And I suspect that that remains true in the Third World of our time.

As to the snake-handling cults; sadly, I must admit that they still exist in the southern part of my state of Kentucky and in Tennessee even though such practices have been outlawed. Every once in awhile our local newspaper tells us of an encounter one of those folks had which the rattlesnake won.

SLE

Wow, I had no idea people were doing this! This is very odd, and it twists the meaning of what Jesus said, like you stated...Those people were obviously misled, God rest their souls, I just hope this all comes to an end soon, and our Lord returns sooner than Later. But, it's His schedule, not mine. [:

As for SpiritLed's question, I don't believe you 'must' speak in tongue's as a believer, I believe it is a gift of the spirit, but the mark of a Believer is a Born-again spirit filled Christian, that's devouted their life to Christ. Only God knows how devouted you really are, you can pray for this gift. God bless.

 

[ThatGuy]

Speaking in tongues is probably the most contraversial topics in the church today, and it saddens me to see so many bible believing Christians completely ignorant to what the word says about this.

Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues

This out of the KJV, the word "new" comes from greek Kainos, used literally means something fresh, something new, in other words something not heard before.

If you read Acts 2:13 you will find that NOT all the men understood what the disciples were saying, as some of them made fun of them and called them drunk (would they call them drunk if they were talking in human tongues?). By my interpretation, the disciples DID NOT speak in human languages, but in the tongues refered to in 1 corinthians 14, the unknown tongues. And the spirit simply gave the crowd interpretation of these tongues.

1 Corinthians 14:2For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries

 

[SpiritLedEd]

Gifts of the Holy Spirit/Acts 2:13

By my interpretation, the disciples DID NOT speak in human languages, but in the tongues refered to in 1 corinthians 14, the unknown tongues. And the spirit simply gave the crowd interpretation of these tongues.

If the disciples were not speaking in human languages, how do you explain Acts 2:7-8, which says: "Utterly amazed, they asked:'Are not all these men who are speaking Galileans? Then how is it that each of us hears them in his own native language?'"

It wasn't a matter of interpretation. The people were hearing the Word in their own native languages.

SLE

 

[ThatGuy]

If the disciples were not speaking in human languages, how do you explain Acts 2:7-8, which says: "Utterly amazed, they asked:'Are not all these men who are speaking Galileans? Then how is it that each of us hears them in his own native language?'"

It wasn't a matter of interpretation. The people were hearing the Word in their own native languages.

SLE

Did you read my first post at all? You'll find the answer there.

 

[jbpichu]

I admit, when I first was baptized in the Holy spirit I was a bit scared at first. I just remember praying in English and all of a sudden going off into what sounded like gibberish to me although I wasn't sure if I was making it up or if I was genuinely speaking in tongues. One night I was arguing, you could say, about it; then I put my head down and started going off in tongues; and it was in my room where nobody was around, so that was a way that God reassured me that what I had was genuine; and I learned that what sounds like gibberish (although honestly it sounds a bit like Greek..or Hebrew..*shrugs* then again it could be in a heavenly language for all I know :shade is my spirit and God's spirit intermingling.

 

[delcor]

I admit, when I first was baptized in the Holy spirit I was a bit scared at first. I just remember praying in English and all of a sudden going off into what sounded like gibberish to me although I wasn't sure if I was making it up or if I was genuinely speaking in tongues. One night I was arguing, you could say, about it; then I put my head down and started going off in tongues; and it was in my room where nobody was around, so that was a way that God reassured me that what I had was genuine; and I learned that what sounds like gibberish (although honestly it sounds a bit like Greek..or Hebrew..*shrugs* then again it could be in a heavenly language for all I know :shade is my spirit and God's spirit intermingling.

I want to encourage you to keep praying in your heavenly language. Rom 8:22-23 say that the Spirit of God interced for us with groaning that can not be uttered. so while you are praying in the Spirit, your enemy can not understand what your are praying

 

[jbpichu]

Haha yep Our pastor even said "The devil knows he's in trouble when he can't understand what you're saying." I kinda thought of it like this

Demon 1: What's he saying?

Satan: *shrug* I don't know..

 

[mikemattice]

Speaking in tongues is probably the most contraversial topics in the church today, and it saddens me to see so many bible believing Christians completely ignorant to what the word says about this.]

I agree its one of the most controversial topics. I think because people focus on it. Unfortunately, there are churches that teach you're not baptized with the Holy Ghost unless you speak in tongues; and even some say you're not born again unless you speak in tongues. Then there are teachings out there in the Body that say you must seek to speak in tongues by saying certain tongue-twisting phrases repeatedly until you lose control of your tongue, and then- halleluia! You have it!

While there are biblical examples where speaking in tongues was a part of the intitial physical evidence of the baptism of the Holy Spirit, the Scriptures say that tongues, as well as the other gifts of the Spirit are distributed to whom HE (God the Holy Ghost) determines, and according to HIS purpose. The Greek word translated "gifts" is karismata. The readers of the Greek understood that karismata did not rest upon an individual like a mantle. The Giver of the gifts would look for the yielded vessel, and manifest Himself in the form of one or more of the karismata through that yielded person to fulfill HIS purpose. But individuals don't keep karismata. They are a manifestation for the moment.

A brother in the Lord once asked me, "How do I speak in tongues?" I told him he might not like my answer; but I was teaching a Bible study on the subject, and so he valued my thoughts on the matter. I said: "Stop seeking to speak in tongues. Instead, completely yield yourself to God's purpose. Ask Him to remove anything of you that hinders your service to HIM, and to enable you to be a profitable servant for the Lord. Then, if He wants you to speak in tongues, or prophesy, or whatever is needed for you to be used by Him, He will give you." Unfortunately, he belongs to a church where the focus seems (at least to me) to be more on the gifts than the Giver AND His purpose for the gifts. I know some Pentecostal believers (by the way, I am one) who can name the gifts of the Holy Spirit (there are more than the nine. Look a few chapters over. i.e. helps, administration, etc.), but if asked why God gives these gifts, they would be stumped.

God is not arbitrary. There is purpose for everything He does, and its not to make us feel good. Why would the Lord bestow the gifts on a believer who may be yielded to manifestation, but not the purpose?

 

[jennie549]

Thank you jiggyfly, this helped clarify a few things for me too. I know what speaking in tounges is, but it was still a bit confusing for me.

 

[jiggyfly]

Thank you jiggyfly, this helped clarify a few things for me too. I know what speaking in tounges is, but it was still a bit confusing for me.

Your welcome Jennie, I am glad it helped Praise Jesus

 

[mikemattice]

I believe there is a broader message in what Jesus said about snakes and poison: Do not fear death, or the things of this world that can be deadly. I don't believe our Lord wants us playing with snakes or deliberately drinking poison (or anything else like that). That seems to me to be trying to manipulate God, saying: "Okay God, I'm going to do this thing that I know is really dumb and won't do anything to fulfill Your purpose, but I'm going to do this and You HAVE to save me, because I believe!" No, He doesn't HAVE to save us from the natural consequences of our own foolishness, and often He doesn't because He wants us to LEARN. Besides, if we can dictate to God what He MUST DO, then He's not God, we are. Hmmm... sounds sort of like a discussion with a snake once in a garden, doesn't it?

 

[mikemattice]

An interesting thing to consider about the "fruit of the Spirit". In context, Paul has just enumerated several of the works of the flesh and warned that those who practice such things will not inherit the Kingdom of God. Then he says that, if we walk according to the Spirit, we won't be doing those things. Paul says that the natural result of walking according to God's Spirit will be the fruit of the Spirit. Please notice that the Scriptures do not say "fruits", but "fruit". While that word can be a plural unity (i.e. "church", "body", "fish"), but the Apostle Paul did not express them as individual and separate items. Consider this:
If you walk according to the leading of God the Holy Spirit, you will not be indulging the lust of the flesh, and here is a picture of what you will be like: love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. After all, Galatians 5:22 says: "But the fruit of the Spirit is..."

 

[mikemattice]

Quote:
Anyone and I repeat anyone who is against speaking in tongues and or prophecy today is against anyone and everyone becoming built up in the Lord Jesus Christ , period, and that makes them against the Holy Spirit and Christ Himself.

I certainly wont disagree with this.. I will agree with it, but not when it means I have to agree with your translations of the Greek words, which I do not feel to be accurate.

Nothing would make me happier than to see the church grow so don't misinterpret what I am saying.

I am fairly sure now that my belief is a minority amongst the Christians on this site, and likely you see me as "not one of us" for my holding this belief. DanV may be the only other Christian I have seen on this site who isn't of a Pentecostal or similar denomination. I would like to think that our beliefs being different on this one subject really should not be a problem, but I am not sure you all will feel the same, as you seem to point out that if I don't believe in your speaking in tongues then I am against Christ.

I am all for anything the Bible says. I believe in the one true God of the bible, and I believe these verses in debate are God inspired. I have tried to take your view as openly as possible and prayed before posting, but I can not agree with your interpretation of these passages on one simple principle:

The majority of the New Testament indicates to me that God doesn't work in ways we see straight in front of our face. It is more glorifying for him to work in much subtler ways, and makes our faith that much more valuable when we trust not in physical experiences, but simply in his promises. Of course Christ’s life was full of miracles and the supernatural because he was the son of God, but to extend that type of miraculous and supernatural phenomenon beyond his time here on earth, and the time shortly after with his chosen 12(13), takes away from the glory of Christ's life and the significance of that time period.



I would like to finally add that my father's salvation came largely in part by a woman who was of a Pentecostal denomination, so I tend to think of people of this belief as brothers even if we disagree.

My brother,
I see that its been some time since you posted this, but I hope that you are still around.
I am of the Pentecostal persuasion, however, you might find me a little different. Please permit me to explain the way that I understand the "speaking in tongues" issue.

First of all, it is a shame that this issue is so divisive in the Body of Christ. To those who make it such, I direct them to the Scripture (they can find it on their own) where the disciples came to Jesus concerned about some people who were going around preaching, teaching, and doing miracles, all in Jesus' Name, but these people were not in their inner circle. Jesus said, "Leave them be. If they're not against us, then they are for us." If I may put it in my words and hopefully not take liberty, these others had likely heard Jesus preach and teach, and were so moved by Him, they just had to act upon the inspiration. So, they were responding to God, whether it was within the structure the disciples were in, or not, God honored it and used those others.

So, here's my point about the controversial issue. Jesus told the disciples and all who read the Word thereafter and believe, that they and we would do greater works than He did. The greatest miracle of all is something that so many people don't even see as one- A CHANGED LIFE BY THE POWER OF GOD. That is the core of the Gospel. We can be changed, and when we are changed, we can then be used by God to fulfill His purpose. And if we are submitted to His purpose, we will do great miracles as the Lord empowers and enables us to do His work. His work will not fail, and He supplies WHATEVER we need in order to fulfill it.

So, if God the Holy Spirit decides that we need to speak in a foreign language that we never learned in order to fulfill that purpose that we are submitted to, then HE manifests it at the time of need, according to HIS wisdom. Or any other karismata, or whatever HE decides is necessary. Our job as believers is to first, be submitted wholly to God and His purpose. (By the way, His purpose has never changed, and does not change) And secondly, to be willing to be used by the Lord in whatever way HE wants to fulfill that purpose.

We need to lay aside our theologies, ideas, and many of our towers need to be torn down. Traditions may not apply, and can keep us from the things God wants for us to do. Again, I state that God's purpose does not change. However, if God wants to use a different method of achieving it, it would not be the first time in history, and is not inconsistent with Who He is.

But the Karismata ("gifts" of the Spirit) are not even a new method. They've been around for 2,000 years. They were a new method on the Day of Pentecost in Acts chapter 2.

In conclusion, I believe that God is God. If He wants someone to speak in tongues, (whether a prayer language, heavenly language as a sign to unbelievers, or an unlearned language to reach the lost, or any other various kinds of tongues), prophecy, words of knowledge, words of wisdom, interpretation of tongues, faith, healings, miracles, discernment of spirits, apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors who are teachers, helps, administration, or any other way HE wants to manifest His presence and power in the life of a yielded believer in order to fulfill HIS purpose, who are we, the clay, to tell God, the potter, how to use us?

I hope you haven't been discouraged by some of our brethren who might have suggested that you're not a Christian because you believe that the manifestations of God are not for His church today. I want to suggest that they are zealous for you to experience a fulness of God that they know (that's not to say you don't know a fulness of God, but rather a different experience).

To my Pentecostal brethren, I want to caution you of something: Jesus said many would come to Him saying, "Lord, Lord, didn't we [then they list several things that we Pentecostals do] in Your Name?" [In other words, they were believers, and did these miracles in the Name of Jesus] and on that day, the Lord will say to these: "Depart from Me. I never knew you, you doers of lawlessness!" Now, there was nothing wrong with the miracles they had done, or how they were done in the Name of Jesus. The issue that caused the separation between them and the Lord was lack of relationship (He didn't know them). Jesus said several times that those who do the will of His Father are His. What's the will of His Father? To reach the lost unredeemed of the world and restore them to Him. What is the biblical reason for the baptism of the Holy Ghost (which Scripturally, results in the manifestations, or gifts)? To empower and enable believers to reach the lost unredeemed world and restore them to HIM. What's the purpose for the existence of the church of Jesus Christ (not a denomination) in this world? Guess what- same purpose. It has never ever changed. Now back to these poor believers... They thought that all these miracles and signs were evidence that God was in their midst and working through them. They focused on the miracles and signs and gifts, as is evidenced by that being the thing they say to the Lord. When the gifts become the focus, and the purpose for those gifts loses importance, maybe even gets laid by the wayside, then are we still doing the will of the Father, or are we putting on a show? This is a very serious concern that I have for my Pentecostal brethren. STOP FOCUSING ON THE GIFTS AND FOCUS ON SUBMITTING TO GOD'S PURPOSE. LET HIM DECIDE WHAT YOU NEED TO FULFILL IT. HE'LL GIVE WHATEVER IS NEEDED TO THE YIELDED VESSEL, THEN USE IT FOR THE PURPOSE IT WAS DESIGNED FOR. IF YOU DON'T DO THIS, YOU ARE IN DANGER OF BEING ONE OF THOSE MANY BELIEVERS WHO CALL JESUS LORD AND DO MIRACLES AND SIGNS IN HIS NAME, BUT DO NOT DO THE WILL OF THE FATHER, AND THEREFORE JESUS DOES NOT KNOW YOU!

 

[jiggyfly]

To my Pentecostal brethren, I want to caution you of something: Jesus said many would come to Him saying, "Lord, Lord, didn't we [then they list several things that we Pentecostals do] in Your Name?" [In other words, they were believers, and did these miracles in the Name of Jesus] and on that day, the Lord will say to these: "Depart from Me. I never knew you, you doers of lawlessness!" Now, there was nothing wrong with the miracles they had done, or how they were done in the Name of Jesus. The issue that caused the separation between them and the Lord was lack of relationship (He didn't know them). Jesus said several times that those who do the will of His Father are His. What's the will of His Father? To reach the lost unredeemed of the world and restore them to Him. What is the biblical reason for the baptism of the Holy Ghost (which Scripturally, results in the manifestations, or gifts)? To empower and enable believers to reach the lost unredeemed world and restore them to HIM. What's the purpose for the existence of the church of Jesus Christ (not a denomination) in this world? Guess what- same purpose. It has never ever changed. Now back to these poor believers... They thought that all these miracles and signs were evidence that God was in their midst and working through them. They focused on the miracles and signs and gifts, as is evidenced by that being the thing they say to the Lord. When the gifts become the focus, and the purpose for those gifts loses importance, maybe even gets laid by the wayside, then are we still doing the will of the Father, or are we putting on a show? This is a very serious concern that I have for my Pentecostal brethren. STOP FOCUSING ON THE GIFTS AND FOCUS ON SUBMITTING TO GOD'S PURPOSE. LET HIM DECIDE WHAT YOU NEED TO FULFILL IT. HE'LL GIVE WHATEVER IS NEEDED TO THE YIELDED VESSEL, THEN USE IT FOR THE PURPOSE IT WAS DESIGNED FOR. IF YOU DON'T DO THIS, YOU ARE IN DANGER OF BEING ONE OF THOSE MANY BELIEVERS WHO CALL JESUS LORD AND DO MIRACLES AND SIGNS IN HIS NAME, BUT DO NOT DO THE WILL OF THE FATHER, AND THEREFORE JESUS DOES NOT KNOW YOU!

I know this is a slow response to this post but I wanted to comment on it anyway.
Concerning God's main purpose, the scriptures are clear, it is to establish the preeminence of His Son, period. Look at what Paul says in Colossians 1:18-20.

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; 20 and, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

 

[majestyking]

thanks

i din't understand spiritual gifts, thanks a lot.