Giving your tenth

[Kallie]

Greetings brothers and sisters
i need help on this one...

Malachi 3:10 says to give your tenth right? but isnt this meant for the priests? Malachi 2 . And isnt this also part of the old law? is there anywhere in the new testament that says we have to give a tenth?

2 Corinthians 9:7 (NIV)
7 Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.


so now i am confused...do i give a tenth .or what i can?
Also is this tenth from my cross sallery or from what i get out after all the deductions and debt i have to pay?

 

[Greg]

I think your quote from 2 Corinthians answers your question. What is the Holy Spirit telling you? Pray, ask God for guidance on the matter and He will surely provide it.

 

[A Blessed Man]

Greetings brothers and sisters
i need help on this one...

Malachi 3:10 says to give your tenth right? but isnt this meant for the priests? Malachi 2 . And isnt this also part of the old law? is there anywhere in the new testament that says we have to give a tenth?

2 Corinthians 9:7 (NIV)
7 Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.


so now i am confused...do i give a tenth .or what i can?
Also is this tenth from my cross sallery or from what i get out after all the deductions and debt i have to pay?

Hi Kallie,

You've opened a can of worms here. The 40,000 foot level answer is: it depends upon what denomination you are in as to what teaching you will get. Generally (though not completely) the more charismatic the church you attend, the more on the side of tithing they will stand.

I attend a very charismatic church (Word/Faith) which teaches tithing, but personally do not find tithing taught to the New Covenant Christian.

Those that teach tithing teach that you give from the first of your increase: ie: 10% of your gross income.

Those that don't teach tithing teach that you need to support your local church. It is up to you the amount (happy heart -- 2 Cor 9) but God knows your heart -- so if you give AFTER you make sure you can afford that new dress you want, then your heart is in question, eh?

Ok, no more equivocating positions.

First, the tithe is not defined by the Law. It existed about 430 years prior to the Law being given. Although it was incorporated into the Law. And it must be pointed out that biblically the tithe and the firstfruit are NOT the same thing.

The first tithe in the Bible is said to be Cain and Able, but neither 'tithe' nor 10% was mentioned in that story. The first mention of tithe is when Abraham gives a tithe of the spoils of war to Melchizedek. Note this giving was not commanded of God.

There are more people and mentions as we move forward through the OT. Malachi 3:8-10 are the 'go to' verses for most tithers. There are some interesting arguments to be made here, beside it being part of the Old Covenant. One is the benefit shown in Malachi 11 -- rebuking the devourer; which in Luke 10:18 we are given authority over the devourer; he can't touch us if we stand in our blessing -- and that blessing does not hinge on our tithe. Another interesting thing about Malachi is that it is written to the priests (we see both direct admonitions "To you priests", ie: Mal 1:6, 2:1, or admonitions about what occurs on the altar which only the priest could touch, ie: Mal 1:7, 2:13). Even in 3:9 we see that the priests are cursed with a curse, ye even the whole nation. So the people fell under a curse because of the sins of the priests.

It is often argued, though, that we are the priests of the New Covenant, with Jesus our High Priest. But does this mean the tithe comes forward?

Many ideas and "laws" do not come forward, and we see in the New Testament that there is simply no teaching on the tithe. There is none.

It is mentioned in a few places.

Matthew 23:23 and Luke 11:42 Jesus mentions it in rebuking the Pharisees. But His topic is not whether they should pay a tithe (and they should, btw, they are OT Jews and are under the Law), but whether their hearts are right concerning justice, mercy and faith. It is said that Jesus told them "without leaving the others undone," and this should somehow mean He was teaching tithing, but again He is talking to OT Jews under the Law, and they, by Law, need to tithe.

Widow with the 2 mites is not a tithe story. It is an abundant giving story.

Luke 18:12 we see an OT Jewish Pharisee saying that he tithes in a parable of Jesus. Here Jesus actually rebukes the tither. Why? His heart is not right. (notice the thread of one's heart developing here.)

And the grandaddy of them all, Hebrews 7:1-9. Here the story of Abraham's tithe to Melchizedek is mentioned. But is the topic a tithe? (no!) Or is the topic the truth that the old priesthood, through which the tithes flowed for a reason, was now inefficient and being done away with. Jesus is now our High Priest and we no longer need a sacrifice system to pay for our sins, for Jesus has done this once for all time with His sacrifice on the cross.

Then we must look to the whole of the New Testament teachings about money. 2 Corinthians 8:8-15 talks about how those who have much should help those who have lack. It is a giving principle, not a tithe. 2 Corinthians 9 tells us that we are to give to support the church and support ministries, but that this giving should come from our heart, we should be joyful about it, and that God will "make all grace abound toward you" because of it. No mention of percentages or even requirement in this giving.

Further, a study of the OT tithe will show that the modern 10% tithe can't be found -- it is only there in the word 'tithe' which means 'tenth'. But if we were to truly follow God's tithing requirements we would be giving something in the neighborhood of 28%-42%.

And the final thing one can do in studying this subject is to find parallels in the scripture. Obviously it can't mention every subject, every time when upholding or dismantaling. So can we find a parallel to tithing?

Tithing existed about 430 years before the Law. (Gen 14)
Tithing was incorporated into the Law.
Tithing was a part of the Jewish rituals.
Tithing is not really mentioned in the NT.

Circumcision existed about 430 years before the Law. (Gen 17)
Circumcision was incorporated into the Law.
Circumcision was a part of the Jewish rituals.
Lets look at what is said about observing circumcision as a requirement in the NT:

Gal 5:2-4 (NKJV)
2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. 3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. 4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

​

This is talking about attempting to become justified through circumcision, ie: through the Law. I've heard some pastors teach that of the tithe, that you must tithe to gain God's blessing (at least financial, but some teach this is the start of all blessing).

And we see Paul tell us here that (knowing that we are not bound to the Law any longer, but Grace) if we attempt to become justified by a part of the Law, then we are a debtor to the whole Law. Christ will profit us nothing (for what He did, He did as a free gift not earned by how you perform) and we will have fallen from Grace.

So even if you do think that you must cut a certain percentage (ie: 10%) for the offering, do not do it for any concept of justification (ie: you do this, God does that) for you cannot be justified by the law (by a requirement).

That's my start for this. I'm sure I'll be questioned (to put it kindly).

Kallie, listen to all who respond here. Then take what we all say back to the Bible and do a search for the tithe. Read the commentaries. Study carefully; for if the parallel to circumcision is correct, then there is quite a repercussion for not diligently understanding the Word.

OT tithing simply does not look like what we do today in churches. For I've heard it taught:

Deut 14:22-24 (NKJV)
22 "You shall truly tithe all the increase of your grain that the field produces year by year. 23 And you shall eat before the Lord your God, in the place where He chooses to make His name abide, the tithe of your grain and your new wine and your oil, of the firstborn of your herds and your flocks, that you may learn to fear the Lord your God always.
​

I've never seen such a preacher continue on:

Deut 14:24-27 (NKJV)
24 But if the journey is too long for you, so that you are not able to carry the tithe, or if the place where the Lord your God chooses to put His name is too far from you, when the Lord your God has blessed you, 25 then you shall exchange [your tithe] for money, take the money in your hand, and go to the place which the Lord your God chooses. 26 And you shall spend that money for whatever your heart desires: for oxen or sheep, for wine or similar drink, for whatever your heart desires; you shall eat there before the Lord your God, and you shall rejoice, you and your household. 27 You shall not forsake the Levite who is within your gates, for he has no part nor inheritance with you.

​

God bless you, Kallie. And I pray that you find truth in scripture.

In His Love
Bob

 

[Diamondlight]

And it must be pointed out that biblically the tithe and the firstfruit are NOT the same thing.

This is interesting and something i didn't already know.

Please may i copy and print off your post for personal study?

 

[A Blessed Man]

This is interesting and something i didn't already know.

Please may i copy and print off your post for personal study?

ok by me. know any rules about publicly copying it though; usually the forums own the posts.

 

[A Blessed Man]

Hi Kallie,

You've opened a can of worms here. The 40,000 foot level answer is: it depends upon what denomination you are in as to what teaching you will get. Generally (though not completely) the more charismatic the church you attend, the more on the side of tithing they will stand.

I would like to make one more point regarding this.

You attend a church. If that church teaches tithing (or anything else), and you come to the biblical conclusion that tithing (or anything else) is not required: it is not your job to go through your church and convert the people to your view!! If you attend a church you should never cause division between the pastor and the flock.

If you like the church otherwise, simply give what you are called to give and don't tithe.

To go through the church and teach the flock contrary to what is taught in the pulpit makes you what the bible calls a wolf. You can destroy a church and all the good that it is doing.

If you think the church is heretical (teaching contrary to scripture) or is a cult, then you should leave. Pray for the people involved.

I felt convicted to add this. :wink:

 

[Boanerges]

Greetings brothers and sisters
i need help on this one...

Malachi 3:10 says to give your tenth right? but isnt this meant for the priests? Malachi 2 . And isnt this also part of the old law? is there anywhere in the new testament that says we have to give a tenth?

2 Corinthians 9:7 (NIV)
7 Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.


so now i am confused...do i give a tenth .or what i can?
Also is this tenth from my cross sallery or from what i get out after all the deductions and debt i have to pay?

Christians are never once commanded to tithe. There is only one reference to tithing from the book of Acts (the birth of the church) and on it is in reference to Abraham. The only other New Testament references are about practicing Jews.
As believers we are to be givers as the Holy Spirit leads. While I do not support putting oneself back under Old Covenant theology I do believe 10% is a good jumping off point.

 

[Eagle_Eyes]

Kallie

God Bless You!

Just wanted to say that paying tithes is a basic duty for any christian to fulfil. In Malachi it says to bring your tithes into the storehouse (where you are being fed spiritually) and you will receive a blessing. This was not something just for the Jews but for all those that trust and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ too.

The way I look at it is that our salaries, jobs, houses, cars, lives etc belongs to Him. It was the Lord that gave us our jobs and our salaries in the first place. He owns the cattle on a thousand hills. We shouldn't give any thought therefore about giving Him the tenth of what we earn neither should we think about what we should eat or what we should drink or what we should wear. If we put Him first He will take care of us.

When I get paid, I always pay my tithes (10%) first. I once had a meeting with my bank because I was struggling with paying debts because I didn't have enough money in my salary to pay them. The advisor made some suggestions and said I could pay so much but I said I couldn't do that because I must pay my tithes first. He then suggested that I could pay a little less tithes so I could cover the debts. I decided I could not compromise and so I said I could not do this. I knew I had to put God first and pay 10% first and no less than that. Ever since that time I have never seen the Lord fail me! Not one time! I never think also about where my money goes when I give it to my pastor (to whom it should go and not to anyone else) as I'm giving tithes to the Lord, not to a man.

Anyway, paying tithes is a revelation. The Lord has to reveal it to you that it is His will. If you pray about it sincerely He will show you and you will be at peace about it. That much is assured.

As for deciding whether to pay tithes on your gross salary (before deductions) or your net salary (after deductions), look at it this way. Do you want a gross blessing or a net blessing? I pay on my gross salary by the way.

I trust this was helpful in some way.

 

[jiggyfly]

Christians are never once commanded to tithe. There is only one reference to tithing from the book of Acts (the birth of the church) and on it is in reference to Abraham. The only other New Testament references are about practicing Jews.
As believers we are to be givers as the Holy Spirit leads. While I do not support putting oneself back under Old Covenant theology I do believe 10% is a good jumping off point.

Excellent post Boanerges but why 10% can you elaborate?

 

[Bayo Bankole]

Mat 23:23: Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

The above scripture from Jesus could be a pointer to the fact that the NT did not abrogate the paying of tithes by believers, rather it elevated the expectation of God on us. The principle of the NT is that of complete ownership of believers and not just a tenth of what "we own".

We have been bought with a price I Cor 6:20; 7:23. We are to live and give in consciousness of this truth. God can make demands on all of our pocessions and not just a tenth. We should give when He asks.

 

[Kallie]

Thanks to all who contributed
Yes i do pray for the Lord to help me with this and i am sure this forum is one place to look for answers,and i am sure i will get answers at other places aswell

This forum is helpfull with a lot of things new christians struggle with
and the members are friendly and helpfull and knoledgeable (sp?)

So this is a good starting piont

I was thinking that giving a tenth (as part of the old law) was saying that i dont accept Jesus offer as being enough.....and trying to justify my saving
And i know that we are saved by grace alone and no works can save us

But thanks to the contributions ,i have a better understanding about the tenths :wink:

 

[Boanerges]

Excellent post Boanerges but why 10% can you elaborate?

Thank you my friend. This is just a personal choice and one my wife and I are quite comfortable with. There are times when we give more but either way we consider it a joy, a privilege but never a debt or requirement.

 

[Bayo Bankole]

Very wonderful exposition from you Blessed Man. Your parallel comparison with Circumcision was very revealing. The truth it revealed, and which should be laid to heart by everyone, is that following the law brings one into bondage.

I pastor a Church and from my experience what I discovered is that most people that argue on tithe are only looking for excuse to cut back on the demands of God financially. They are only looking for back up.

As I have earlier posted on this issue, the demands of the NT is greater than the OT. NT is about complete OWNERSHIP of GOD on us and our SURRENDER to HIM.

The second issue, as brought out in your write up, is that the law (even on tithes) should not be held on to by any believer as to throw away the leading of the Holy Spirit on God's demands on our lives.

These should settle the issue in then heart of any believer that sincerely wants to follow God.

God Bless everyone.

 

[Bayo Bankole]

Good addition Blessed Man. God will continue to help us.

 

[StopPolloition]

I think all the posts about tithing being under one covenant and not under another miss one critical point: tithing is not under any covenant. Abraham tithed to God; he wasn't under the law at the time. It can be effectively argued that even all the way back to the sacrifices of Cain and Abel that these were in fact, tithes. To say that tithing is under the law is like saying that having faith in God was under the law. Yes, the Israelites were commanded to trust in God for their sustenance; it doesn't mean that we shouldn't do the same because we are no longer under the law. That's a trite and unsound argument that needs to be laid to rest.

 

[A Blessed Man]

I think all the posts about tithing being under one covenant and not under another miss one critical point: tithing is not under any covenant. Abraham tithed to God; he wasn't under the law at the time. It can be effectively argued that even all the way back to the sacrifices of Cain and Abel that these were in fact, tithes. To say that tithing is under the law is like saying that having faith in God was under the law. Yes, the Israelites were commanded to trust in God for their sustenance; it doesn't mean that we shouldn't do the same because we are no longer under the law. That's a trite and unsound argument that needs to be laid to rest.

Hi StopPolloition,

It wasn't said that tithing is under the law, although it is true that the tithe was incorporated into the Law.

The topic really is about what the church calls the "tithe" today. It bears very little resemblance to what scripture carefully details out about the tithe in the Old Testament. And many preachers have mixed the concepts of firstfruit and tithe.

In the Old Testament, there are three "tithes". If one added up the responsibility of the OT Jew it would be about a third of their income. Further, not everyone was required to tithe -- only the farmers and herdsmen. There were offerings of oil and such, but the tithe was food. And a tithe of the tithe was to feed the priests.

It is more than can be covered here in the forums, but there are many fine dissertations on the Old Testament tithe that can be found. (As always, watch out for the slop.) As a start, one can use a concordance and find all references to the tithe in the Bible. If your concept of the tithe is a 10% offering in church each paycheck, then you will quickly get confused following the tithe in the Bible. Stick with it, read the commentaries, and remember that there are 3 tithes spoken of and taught in scripture.

If you are a supporter of the tithe, then you must quickly ask: why was God's commands on tithing changed? Why does the OT teach as it does and the modern church waters it down to a single 10%, and money at that? Can a dairyman bring one of his 10 cows? Can a farmer bring 1 of 10 bales of wheat?

But more importantly is this: why is the New Testament virtually silent on such an important subject. It is taught that the tithe is the gate to open God's blessing, and at least to open His financial blessing. This is important stuff: so why is the subject ignored by Paul?

These are questions that every Christian should ask themselves. Included with other topics, such as circumcision, and how the Old Covenant requirements changed under the New Covenant.

And apropos to giving is what Paul DOES teach about it. 2 Corinthians 9 being the most succinct of the teachings. So, yes, we are to give but the requirement of percentage has passed: God wants 100%. He wants all of you.

But most importantly He wants your heart. He wants you to give back to Him from your desire, from your joy, from your complete and utter honor of Him. And when you give Him all of you, He will bless you beyond your wildest imaginations.

 

[A Blessed Man]

Kallie

God Bless You!

Just wanted to say that paying tithes is a basic duty for any christian to fulfil. In Malachi it says to bring your tithes into the storehouse (where you are being fed spiritually) and you will receive a blessing. This was not something just for the Jews but for all those that trust and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ too.

The way I look at it is that our salaries, jobs, houses, cars, lives etc belongs to Him. It was the Lord that gave us our jobs and our salaries in the first place. He owns the cattle on a thousand hills. We shouldn't give any thought therefore about giving Him the tenth of what we earn neither should we think about what we should eat or what we should drink or what we should wear. If we put Him first He will take care of us.

When I get paid, I always pay my tithes (10%) first. I once had a meeting with my bank because I was struggling with paying debts because I didn't have enough money in my salary to pay them. The advisor made some suggestions and said I could pay so much but I said I couldn't do that because I must pay my tithes first. He then suggested that I could pay a little less tithes so I could cover the debts. I decided I could not compromise and so I said I could not do this. I knew I had to put God first and pay 10% first and no less than that. Ever since that time I have never seen the Lord fail me! Not one time! I never think also about where my money goes when I give it to my pastor (to whom it should go and not to anyone else) as I'm giving tithes to the Lord, not to a man.

Anyway, paying tithes is a revelation. The Lord has to reveal it to you that it is His will. If you pray about it sincerely He will show you and you will be at peace about it. That much is assured.

As for deciding whether to pay tithes on your gross salary (before deductions) or your net salary (after deductions), look at it this way. Do you want a gross blessing or a net blessing? I pay on my gross salary by the way.

I trust this was helpful in some way.

These are all very good points, Eagle_Eyes. I, personally, could agree if the word tithe changes to offering, and 10% or tenth is removed. But again, discussion about the tithe has gone on for a long, long time. Each person must deal with God's Word in their life.

How do you, as a tither, deal with some of the verses that defined tithing:

Lev 27:32-33 (NKJV)
32 And concerning the tithe of the herd or the flock, of whatever passes under the rod, the tenth one shall be holy to the Lord. 33 He shall not inquire whether it is good or bad, nor shall he exchange it;
​

Here we see that the Lord wanted 10%, but He wanted the last tenth, and even at that He wanted it whether or not it was blemished.

Deut 14:24-26 (NKJV)
But if the journey is too long for you, so that you are not able to carry the tithe, or if the place where the Lord your God chooses to put His name is too far from you, when the Lord your God has blessed you, 25 then you shall exchange it for money, take the money in your hand, and go to the place which the Lord your God chooses. 26 And you shall spend that money for whatever your heart desires: for oxen or sheep, for wine or similar drink, for whatever your heart desires; you shall eat there before the Lord your God, and you shall rejoice, you and your household.
​

Do you ever spend your tithe for whatever your heart desires: specifically for meat or wine or similar drink? Scripture is talking here about food for you. It is a festival, in fact.

Deut 14:28-29 (NKJV)
"At the end of every third year you shall bring out the tithe of your produce of that year and store it up within your gates. 29 And the Levite, because he has no portion nor inheritance with you, and the stranger and the fatherless and the widow who are within your gates, may come and eat and be satisfied, that the Lord your God may bless you in all the work of your hand which you do.
​

This is yet another tithe: once at the end of each third year. This money is to be stored up in a special place and is to be used to feed the priests (pastors & 'paid' workers), the homeless, the orphans and the widows that are in the church (or nearby in town). (This can't be used to pay the light bill.)

And then there is:

2 Cor 9:6-7 (NKJV)
But this I say: He who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully. 7 So let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver.
​

When I used to tithe I used to wonder about verse 6. Since everyone was giving 10%, that had to mean that God blessed the rich folk more than the poor, because they could sow more bountifully than the poor.

Or does it mean that the amount of giving is up to you? Verse 7 answers the question: "let each one give as he purposed in his heart." God watches the heart of the New Covenant believer. Hebrews tells us the Old Covenant has passed away (Heb 8:7-13). Remember, the Law is under the Old Covenant; the Old Covenant is more than just the Law.

Now, there is certainly nothing wrong with giving 10% and refering to it as tithe. Tithers or non-tithers will suffer no salvific results -- ie: you won't jeopardize salvation. But if there is any parallel between the tithe and, say, circumcision (see my other post) then there are consequences of treating the tithe as a requirement (for whether you admit that it amounts to following law, it is) and personally I don't want to suffer that consequence.

Galatians 5 covers this, using circumcision as an example, but is talking about the bondage of the requirements of law. We have been given liberty in Christ, so to place ourselves back under the bondage of a requirement of law we are effectively choosing which covenant to live under.

Gal 5:1-6 (NKJV)Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. 2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. 3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. 4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. 5 For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.
​

I pray that readers do not just blow this off as opposition to the tithe. For I am not trying to get out of giving money to the church, missions or to the needy. I give generously.

But I pray that each reader will take these points and study them, make a wise choice, and pray the Holy Spirit lead you in understanding of the Words of scripture, not the leadings of men.

 

[StopPolloition]

Blessed man, your argument is masterful and I take no issue with anything you've said. I wanted to take pains to not say one viewpoint is right where another may be wrong. This isn't the first discussion on the tithe here and certainly won't be the last. I wanted to contribute a point of clarification in the interest of fairness. I pay a tithe on all my increase; sadly too many dismiss the tithe as a relic of the law and choose instead to give nothing or whatever they've left after they do what they want. I think this is shameful. I've not always had everything I wanted but I certainly haven't been in lack for giving the tithe and offering first.

 

[Anglican]

Greed to seed

I used to worship money
An idol built of greed
My life revolved around the lump
Amassed, just for my need
I used to guard it carefully
And watch it ebb and flow
Was overjoyed to see it come
But sad to see it go.

Charity began at home
My needs were paramount
The poor and needy had to wait
Their poverty didn't count
But then I had a change of life
And I asked Jesus in
But kept my wallet firmly closed
My wealth was not a sin.

Bit by bit, my hardened heart
Was softened by His love
And off my greedy, grasping hand
He took the chain mailed glove
Now I tithe and sow my seed
Into the kingdom field
A cheerful giver, I've become
And heaven is my yield.

 

[PrinceAfrica]

Nice poetry.

Here are my thoughts on tithing...

We have a small church 12 members (including children) and our bills are high [rent, water, electricity and chairs we bought on credit]. We don't pay our pastor a salary because we cant afford it but what we do instead is try to conjole the members to pay tithes and offerings so we can afford to meet in our church building.

If we were meeting in my pastors living room (something I wish) then we wouldn't have to pay tithes to the pastor and instead would have to give a love offering.

But in this case we need the tithes to pay for our church expenses. Our church is our Spiritual Storehouse that we bring our material goods into so we can eat of the spiritual treasure that the LORD has kept up for us.

May his HOLY NAME be blessed !


Amen !