Giving your tenth

[GaryArnold]

NOBODY pays The Lord's tithe today. Since God defined His tithe as a tenth of crops and animals in herds and flocks raised on the Holy land, giving a tenth of one's income to the church is NOT biblically tithing. It is merely GIVING a tenth of one's income.

You either follow God's commands on tithing or you don't. You can't change the definition and ordinances and then claim you are tithing per God's Word.

In the Old Testament, the firstfruits went to God by taking them to the priests at the Temple. Firstfruits means first of the crop, NOT first part of income.

In the New Testament, the firstfruits belong to the farmer.
2 Timothy 2:6 (KJV) - The husbandman that laboureth must be first partaker of the fruits.
2 Timothy 2:6 (NIV) - The hardworking farmer should be the first to receive a share of the crops.

In the Old Testament, you gave to God by taking the tithe to the Levites, taking firstfruits to the priests, and through burnt and other sacrificial giving.

In the New Testament, you give to God by giving to the needy/poor. See Matthew 25:42-45.

In the Old Testament, they had laws to follow. They had no Holy Spirit to lead them.

In the New Testament, born-again believers are given God's Holy Spirit. Those who are led by The Spirit need no laws. If they follow the Spirit's guidance, they will do God's will.

It makes no sense to try to bring forward an the Old Testament law of tithing when the New Testament teaches a better way.

Abraham gave a tenth of war spoils but kept nothing for himself. Some try to somehow link this to the later commands to tithe. But there is a problem linking the two.

1 - We only have scripture to show that Abraham gave a tenth ONE time, and ONLY on war spoils.
2 - The later Mosaic law required a tenth of crops and animals, but NOT a tenth of war spoils. In fact, God only claimed a small fraction of a tenth of war spoils under the Mosaic law.
3 - There is no scripture to show that Abraham gave a tenth of crops and animals.
4 - Therefore, what Abraham did was NOT carried forward into the law, and what the law required was NOT followed by Abraham. There is NOTHING similar between the two other than the word tenth or tithe.

There is nothing similar between the tithe commands in the Old Testament and the made-up tithe taught by false teachers today except the word tithe.

In Deuteronomy 8:18 we learn that God gave us the ABILITY to produce wealth - He gave us the ABILITY to work and earn a living. When we work, it is OUR labor. The Biblical tithe came from GOD'S labor, not man's labor. Man cannot make crops and animals. God NEVER commanded anyone to tithe on anything that man makes or earned.

 

[GaryArnold]

Some question, how will the church be financed if it isn't through both tithes and offerings?

First, not all denominations teach and collect the tithe, and they bring in the funds needed without having to lie about tithing.

Next, not all Baptist pastors (for an example) teach and collect the tithe. Some do, and some don't.

The end does not justify the means.

The New Testament teaches generous, sacrificial giving, from the heart, according to our means. For some, $1 might be a sacrifice, while for others, even giving 50% of their income might not induce a sacrifice. In the Old Testament, ONLY the farmers tithed, and it was equal percentage (a tenth). The New Testament teaches the principle of equal sacrifice instead of equal percentage. Equal sacrifice is much harder to achieve than giving ten percent.

While tithing is not fair to the poor, it is a nearly-free ride for the well-to-do and wealthy who maybe should be giving far, far more than a mere tenth.

Being led by The Spirit, NOT some Old Testament laws, I find myself giving far more than a tenth of my income. Far more than 20%.

You can either be led by "the spirit of the law," OR you can be led by The Holy Spirit. You decide.

 

[A Blessed Man]

Blessed man, your argument is masterful and I take no issue with anything you've said. I wanted to take pains to not say one viewpoint is right where another may be wrong. This isn't the first discussion on the tithe here and certainly won't be the last. I wanted to contribute a point of clarification in the interest of fairness. I pay a tithe on all my increase; sadly too many dismiss the tithe as a relic of the law and choose instead to give nothing or whatever they've left after they do what they want. I think this is shameful. I've not always had everything I wanted but I certainly haven't been in lack for giving the tithe and offering first.

So true that many place the tithe under the law only. This simply is not scriptural. But whether it was carried from the Old to the New Covenant is what I am trying to bring up. You make a good point on this.

And I want to emphasize your point (and I made a similar point in my opening post to this thread) that too many people when thinking about tithing/giving to God's work put their own needs first. They want that new dress, or they want the new golf clubs, so they determine to buy their stuff first, and then from what is left they give to God. This should not be so.

I also want to point out that there are many who have gotten themselves into financial trouble either prior to becoming a Christian or while a Christian and not considering their giving. These people are being preached to that they should give 10% of their income WHETHER OR NOT they have enough left for their obligations. Personal stewardship is discussed much in the Bible, for instance:

1 Tim 5:8 (NKJV)
But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.
​

If you pay your tithe but can't pay your mortgage or your light bill....

You are to be a good steward of what God gives you, including and especially your money. God will not stop you from being opulent and greedy. Nor will He continue to pour it on when you abuse the gifts that He gives to you.

I understand that people ARE in such positions. Their goal should be to get out from under such burdens. While the scripture does not prohibit debt, it does offer advise to "owe no one anything except to love one another" (Rom 13:8).

Alas, I'm rambling..... :embarasse

 

[A Blessed Man]

Nice poetry.

Here are my thoughts on tithing...

We have a small church 12 members (including children) and our bills are high [rent, water, electricity and chairs we bought on credit]. We don't pay our pastor a salary because we cant afford it but what we do instead is try to conjole the members to pay tithes and offerings so we can afford to meet in our church building.

If we were meeting in my pastors living room (something I wish) then we wouldn't have to pay tithes to the pastor and instead would have to give a love offering.

But in this case we need the tithes to pay for our church expenses. Our church is our Spiritual Storehouse that we bring our material goods into so we can eat of the spiritual treasure that the LORD has kept up for us.

May his HOLY NAME be blessed !


Amen !

Praise God for the assembly of Christian believers!!

Here's what came to mind as I read your post:

Acts 4:32-35 (NKJV)
Now the multitude of those who believed were of one heart and one soul; neither did anyone say that any of the things he possessed was his own, but they had all things in common. 33 And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all. 34 Nor was there anyone among them who lacked; for all who were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the proceeds of the things that were sold, 35 and laid them at the apostles' feet; and they distributed to each as anyone had need.
​

Too many times people (not speaking directly of your assembly) think that church is an amorphous place where they can "get a free show" (for lack of a better phrase). People need to realize that churches have expenses, and it is up to the church (the people!!) to pay for that.

God set up a system in the Old Testament called tithing, that helped to pay for everything, including the "salary" (or better: the food) of the Levite priests.

We must remember that we are giving to God, not to the pastor, not to the church. We give as unto God, and God makes the sustenance for the church body.

Ok, to your assembly specifically. With 12 people to move into a building carries with it obligations. Being good stewards you would have done due diligence on this cost, and my assumption would be that this core of 12 members are committed to this ministry. They are not the "get a free show" wandering in/out people. They are in for the long haul. In that, they must also be committed to the costs of the endevour. If they cannot afford said costs then the costs must be scaled back (for instance: no building for now; whatever).

With this said, and to return focus of my reply to the thread topic of tithing, we have to examine what giving is.

If your church believes and teaches tithing, then it must be biblically based and not just a convenient interpretation of tithing to raise needed money. Tithing, biblically, is given to the Levite priest (in our day: your pastor). So whether you meet in a building or your pastor's living room, you give your tithe to God through your pastor. Part of the tithe is your pastor's salary -- for the law of tithing did not allow the Levite (your pastor) to work or own land outside the tabernacle (your church). (btw, if you really study the requirements herein, tithing in the New Testament church falls apart; but I'm not here to argue that.) The rest goes into "running" the church -- paying the lights, the air, the heat, feeding the poor, the orphans and the widows.

If the church doesn't lean on OT tithing, then the offering is used to keep the church expenses paid, including any necessary salaries, and to feed the poor and needy. No NT preclusions exist for the pastor not to work or own land. And from this, as well as any church model, the preaching of the Gospel into the world is achieved.

I applaud the resolve of such a small group to follow the Lord's leading and start an assembly. This is a huge task and I pray for your continued blessing and success. Stay focused on the Gospel message, as it is too easy to get distracted with the "real world" needs of running the church.

God bless!!

 

[GaryArnold]

The tithe was paid to THE LEVITES, not the priests. The Levites were the ushers, singers, musicians, janitors, etc. - the servants of the priests. The Levites were then commanded to give a tenth of that tithe to the priests.

The priests and Levites only worked at the Temple about two weeks per year, on a rotational basis - NOT FULL TIME. The priests and Levites were divided into 24 "courses". See First Chronicles 24 for the priests and chapters 25 and 26 for the Levites. Each course only ministered in the Temple one week out of twenty four (1 in 24), and, depending on how many families were in each course, each family only ministered in the Temple two or three days during its courses’ week of ministry.

Today, when you give to the church, you are giving to MAN, not God. You are giving to pay for SERVICES RENDERED - a building to worship in, utilities, upkeep, salaries, etc. You are NOT giving to God. NO WHERE in the scriptures does it say that giving to a church is giving to God. You may be giving to further the work of God, but that is not giving it to God.

There is NO scripture to substantiate that Abraham tithed to God. Biblical historians agree that in the days of Abraham, it was custom to give a tenth of war spoils to the king.

 

[Boanerges]

I think all the posts about tithing being under one covenant and not under another miss one critical point: tithing is not under any covenant. Abraham tithed to God; he wasn't under the law at the time. It can be effectively argued that even all the way back to the sacrifices of Cain and Abel that these were in fact, tithes. To say that tithing is under the law is like saying that having faith in God was under the law. Yes, the Israelites were commanded to trust in God for their sustenance; it doesn't mean that we shouldn't do the same because we are no longer under the law. That's a trite and unsound argument that needs to be laid to rest.

While that is an interesting opinion can you find one scripture to support tithing in the New Testament Church? I believe you cannot and will not -that renders your opinion just that ,an opinion.
As far as the offerings of Cain and Able there is no indication of tithing so that is another supposition.
Comparing tithing to faith in God is an invalid point as one is required of the church (faith) and the other is not.
Instead of relying on rules and regulations the people of God need to be led of the Holy Spirit of God. He will put it on their hearts and no work of His will lack funding. That takes more faith than you see in Pastors who teach un-scriptural New Testament tithing because they are afraid to lean on God for their resources.
So is summation, if you wish to lay to rest arguments against tithing in the church you would either have to remove the Epistles which teach differently. Either that or provide a scriptural basis for that pratice in the church. But then of course there is no such scripture.

 

[A Blessed Man]

The tithe was paid to THE LEVITES, not the priests. The Levites were the ushers, singers, musicians, janitors, etc. - the servants of the priests. The Levites were then commanded to give a tenth of that tithe to the priests.

Hmm.

Num 3:6-8 (NKJV)
"Bring the tribe of Levi near, and present them before Aaron the priest, that they may serve him. 7 And they shall attend to his needs and the needs of the whole congregation before the tabernacle of meeting, to do the work of the tabernacle. 8 Also they shall attend to all the furnishings of the tabernacle of meeting, and to the needs of the children of Israel, to do the work of the tabernacle.
​

From such as this you think they are ONLY ushers and musicians? You have to keep going from Numbers and read further: (Deuteronomy 18:1, 21:5, 31:9)

Deut 18:1 (NKJV)
"The priests, the Levites--all the tribe of Levi--shall have no part nor inheritance with Israel; they shall eat the offerings of the Lord made by fire, and His portion.
​

Some Levites are priests, and they eat of the offering. When it says they have no part nor inheritance it means they can't have material possession to own -- no job, no land, nothing. They are the Lord's (to redeem the first born of Israel's children).

Deut 31:9 (NKJV)
So Moses wrote this law and delivered it to the priests, the sons of Levi, who bore the ark of the covenant of the Lord, and to all the elders of Israel.
​

Better would be to let Paul tell us:

Heb 7:5, 11 (NKJV)
5 And indeed those who are of the sons of Levi, who receive the priesthood, have a commandment to receive tithes from the people according to the law

11 Therefore, if perfection were through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need was there that another priest should rise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be called according to the order of Aaron?
​

Jesus did not come to replace the ushers and the musicians!

There were two priesthoods. The lower order is the Levitical priesthood; the higher order was the Aaronic priesthood. The tithes were paid to the Levitical priesthood. They ate and paid for the tabernacle services and things. They did the work of the outer court of the tabernacle, not being allowed in the Holy of Holies. They gave 10% of the tithe to the Aaronic priesthood. Only the High Priest was allowed into the Holy of Holies.

Ex 28:1 (NKJV)
"Now take Aaron your brother, and his sons with him, from among the children of Israel, that he may minister to Me as priest, Aaron and Aaron's sons

Ex 28:4 (NKJV)So they shall make holy garments for Aaron your brother and his sons, that he may minister to Me as priest.

Ex 28:29 (NKJV)
So Aaron shall bear the names of the sons of Israel on the breastplate of judgment over his heart, when he goes into the holy place, as a memorial before the Lord continually.
​

One of the points to understand is that the Levites were a large segment of the population. Not every Levite was a priest, but all Levites were set aside by God as His. More below....

The priests and Levites only worked at the Temple about two weeks per year, on a rotational basis - NOT FULL TIME. The priests and Levites were divided into 24 "courses". See First Chronicles 24 for the priests and chapters 25 and 26 for the Levites. Each course only ministered in the Temple one week out of twenty four (1 in 24), and, depending on how many families were in each course, each family only ministered in the Temple two or three days during its courses’ week of ministry.

...what you mention here was only in effect in what we refer to as the Monarchy period. It was the time when God allowed Israel to institute a King to rule over them. Again, only part of the Levites were priests; the rest, during this period of time, were assigned to help and assist the priesthood with their duties, as well as general duties in the tabernacle (gatekeepers; musicians; lay ministry work; keepers and handlers of all the physical objects in the tabernacle; etc.). Note that most of this was not as disciplined in Moses' day; this became more the process during the monarchial times. And yes, the ones assigned to do the tabernacle work (the one's who were not priests) did take turns throughout the year.

Today, when you give to the church, you are giving to MAN, not God. You are giving to pay for SERVICES RENDERED - a building to worship in, utilities, upkeep, salaries, etc. You are NOT giving to God. NO WHERE in the scriptures does it say that giving to a church is giving to God. You may be giving to further the work of God, but that is not giving it to God.

Interesting. While I don't agree that my offering in church is not to God, I must say that you are correct in that scripture does not say my giving to church is giving to God [directly]. But you are splitting hairs to say that "giving to further the work of God...is not giving it to God." Our command is to preach the Gospel to the world, and it is through the church body that we do this. In the same manner that the OT tithe kept the "system" running, the NT offering plays the same role -- it simply is not a requirement of percentages and types.

Now I do agree that the sacrificial system in the OT was done away with. Tithing was, for the most part, animals and crops which were slaughtered and burned on the altar. Jesus performed the perfect sacrifice and forever did away with the need for a priest to perform such sacrifices daily. So only the support side of the tithe lives on in the modern day offering.

There is NO scripture to substantiate that Abraham tithed to God. Biblical historians agree that in the days of Abraham, it was custom to give a tenth of war spoils to the king.

Yes, the customs to royalty and important people was as you say. But....

Heb 7:1-4 (NKJV)
For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the Most High God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him, 2 to whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all, first being translated "king of righteousness," and then also king of Salem, meaning "king of peace," 3 without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but made like the Son of God, remains a priest continually. 4 Now consider how great this man was, to whom even the patriarch Abraham gave a tenth of the spoils.
​

We see the same type here between Melchizedek and the Levitical priest. The tithe is paid to God through them. But I won't split hairs here, for as you said in another post, this was a one time gift and God did not command nor require it. It should not be used to justify why a New Covenant Christian should pay a tithe. (To say Abraham did not pay a tithe is a misuse of the term: he did and he paid it to please God through God's priest.)

As a side note: there is teaching that Melchizedek is actually Jesus. This makes no sense, even with v3 above (which simply means that we don't know his history). Old Jewish writings propose that he is actually Seth. I have no opinion on this.

 

[A Blessed Man]

That takes more faith than you see in Pastors who teach un-scriptural New Testament tithing because they are afraid to lean on God for their resources.

I find this point slightly harsh. :shock: While I believe teaching of tithing in the New Testament to be non-existent, some ministers nontheless believe in and teach tithing. There are two camps that I can see:

(1) those who know it has no scriptural legs to stand on
-- in which case your comments are true; and

(2) those who think this is scriptural from the verses provided from the OT, and their view that this carries forward into the church
-- in which case they are doing what they believe God intends, i.e., they ARE leaning on what they believe is God's plan for their resources and are not afraid of lack.
​

If they are teaching and believing the tithe as a requirement though, they essentially place themselves under the law -- and that is a heavy-heavy place to be. Even if being there is not intentional (i.e, they don't think they are under law).

 

[GaryArnold]

Numbers 35:1-3 (KJV)
1And the LORD spake unto Moses in the plains of Moab by Jordan near Jericho, saying,
2Command the children of Israel, that they give unto the Levites of the inheritance of their possession cities to dwell in; and ye shall give also unto the Levites suburbs for the cities round about them.
3And the cities shall they have to dwell in; and the suburbs of them shall be for their cattle, and for their goods, and for all their beasts.

In Numbers 35:1-3 we learn that even though the Levites could not own land, the were given, rent free, cities to live in, and suburbs to raise their cattle.

This is also verified in Joshua 21:1-8.

As has been pointed out, the priests came from the tribe of Levi, but it was the non-priests that inherited the whole tithe from which they were to give a tenth to the Levitical priests.

Another interesting verse:
Numbers 18:27 proves that neither wages nor income could be tithed on for The Lord’s Tithe. Without this interpretation, Numbers 18:27 has no meaning and is only taking up space.

 

[A Blessed Man]

Numbers 35:1-3 (KJV)
1And the LORD spake unto Moses in the plains of Moab by Jordan near Jericho, saying,
2Command the children of Israel, that they give unto the Levites of the inheritance of their possession cities to dwell in; and ye shall give also unto the Levites suburbs for the cities round about them.
3And the cities shall they have to dwell in; and the suburbs of them shall be for their cattle, and for their goods, and for all their beasts.

In Numbers 35:1-3 we learn that even though the Levites could not own land, the were given, rent free, cities to live in, and suburbs to raise their cattle.

This is also verified in Joshua 21:1-8.

As has been pointed out, the priests came from the tribe of Levi, but it was the non-priests that inherited the whole tithe from which they were to give a tenth to the Levitical priests.

Yes, Levites could have no ownership. But where are you seeing that the 10% that they then pass on goes to Levitical priests. They were part and parcel of the tithe that Israel gave to the Levites; 10% of that was given to the Aaronite priests -- and thus to the High Priest for such things as the Atonement sacrifice.

We have to remember that Jesus, in becoming a sacrifice for us and becoming our High Priest, did away with the sacrificial system -- this is the function of the Levitical priesthood, as mentioned in Hebrews. They were the front line, day to day priests offering daily sacrifices (see Hebrews). The OT tithe supported this system of priests, as well as the Levite people as well as the homeless, the orphans, and the widows (Levite or not). The tithe funnelled through the tabernacle in the same manner as today's church needs support and finance to function and help the homeless, the orphans and the widows.

Another interest verse:
Numbers 18:27 proves that neither wages nor income could be tithed on for The Lord’s Tithe. Without this interpretation, Numbers 18:27 has no meaning and is only taking up space.

Why go to that extreme for the interpretation? There was no OT requirement for a tithe on income. There were specific items that fell under the tithe and not every person in Israel was required to tithe. Only the people who worked with food (animals/grain/wine/oils) had to tithe. The local blacksmith had no requirement to tithe.

 

[GaryArnold]

The term “Levitical priest” is commonly used to mean the same as the Aaronic priest in many commentaries, including: Matthew Henry, Ryrie Study Bible, Nelson Study Bible, Cambridge Study Bible, and many more.

 

[Boanerges]

I find this point slightly harsh. :shock: While I believe teaching of tithing in the New Testament to be non-existent, some ministers nontheless believe in and teach tithing. There are two camps that I can see:

(1) those who know it has no scriptural legs to stand on
-- in which case your comments are true; and

(2) those who think this is scriptural from the verses provided from the OT, and their view that this carries forward into the church
-- in which case they are doing what they believe God intends, i.e., they ARE leaning on what they believe is God's plan for their resources and are not afraid of lack.
​

If they are teaching and believing the tithe as a requirement though, they essentially place themselves under the law -- and that is a heavy-heavy place to be. Even if being there is not intentional (i.e, they don't think they are under law).

Harshness not intended. I recognize that many are taught this and simply do not know better. Since you cannot teach that which you do not know the folly of legalism is spread.
I know more than a few Pastors and after talking to several of them on tithing I simply find this to be a truth.
This does not diminish my love for them and I recognize we are but men after all. Sadly it is a tendency of man to try to accomplish things in his own strength, his own planning. plotting and effort. This is of course simply the flesh trying to to God's work and that is how Abraham gave us Ishmael. Trying to do God's work will never produce anything of eternal value.