God and Free Will

[aaroncam00]

old testament: God said Jesus would come

If Israel;from the beggining had done what God had asked, there would have been no need for Jesus to die.

Israel could only have failed to do what God wants because God had said Jesus would come.

If Israel did not fail God's prophecy would have been wrong.

Therefore, God's will effects us.

This is an example: God knows I am going to hell

If I chose to accept Jesus, God will be wrong in what He knows

OR

God knows I am going to heaven

If I chose to deny Jesus, God will be wrong

God cannot be wrong SO if He knows something will happen, it must happen and nothing can change that, even my free will. (which I personally feel is an illusion)

 

[Rev T.S.Perkins]

The word tells us just as sin entered in through one man..( Adam ) like wise through one ( Christ ) we are all forgiven of sin ( paraphrase )
im not to sure that Israel not being obedient would have negated the need for Christ..Adams sin is why Christ was sacraficed so we. Could have salvation and again have fellowship with a rightiuos. God....Rev

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

old testament: God said Jesus would come


If Israel;from the beggining had done what God had asked, there would have been no need for Jesus to die.


Israel could only have failed to do what God wants because God had said Jesus would come.


If Israel did not fail God's prophecy would have been wrong.


Therefore, God's will effects us.


This is an example: God knows I am going to hell


If I chose to accept Jesus, God will be wrong in what He knows


OR


God knows I am going to heaven


If I chose to deny Jesus, God will be wrong


God cannot be wrong SO if He knows something will happen, it must happen and nothing can change that, even my free will. (which I personally feel is an illusion)

I think you are seeing perfectly clear.
It is an illusion constructed by men to patch the holes in their understanding of the nature of love.
So the next question would be is the doctrine of eternal torture in fire actually in scripture or is it another clever invention of men?

 

[Dovegiven]

they had a choice, this is my question, did they?

If they could have chosen to be "good" then Jesus would not have had to come and God would have been wrong in saying Jesus would come, So could they have really chosen to do "good" after God had promised Christs coming?

No. Jesus made it clear concerning the value of human "goodness", even counting His own flesh body while engaged in this: Matthew 19:[16] And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
[17] And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Of course Jesus amplified the conditions required for salvation.
Being good or doing good doesn't satisfy God. Good is good, but not sufficient to inherit eternal life. Rather than continually battle sin by doing good, deserve salvation by simple faith in Jesus and repenting of sin.
Jim

 

[revbrad]

Being good or doing good doesn't satisfy God. Good is good, but not sufficient to inherit eternal life. Rather than continually battle sin by doing good, deserve salvation by simple faith in Jesus and repenting of sin.
Jim

Amen

John 3:3 - Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

 

[brakelite]

It was God's purpose from the beginning to save man...sending His Son to die on behalf of the human race was inevitable from the moment of Adam's sin. Israel was established for that reason...to be the conduit for God's purposes...to them were given the oracles of God and through them came the Messiah. It was always God's desire that Israel live according to His laws, and commandments, but they would not. That means they had a choice. Despite that choice however God's purposes continued and Jesus came. Not because Israel failed, but because mankind has failed.
Love is not love without freewill. We are all born in sin, and have the propensities to continue therein. To love God is to choose to do so. He does not force our love...then it would cease to be love.

 

[El Hombre viejo]

We do have a limited range of choices but the concept of "free will" seems more of an invention of man.
There are many scriptures that tells me that we really have very little control.

These are a few:

Romans 11:32 For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
Proverbs 21:30 There is no wisdom, no insight, no plan that can succeed against the LORD.
Proverbs 21:1 The king’s heart is in the hand of the LORD; he directs it like a watercourse wherever he pleases.
Proverbs 16:9 In his heart a man plans his course, but the LORD determines his steps.
Proverbs 20:24 A man’s steps are directed by the LORD. How then can anyone understand his own way?
Jer 10:23 I know, Jehovah, that the way of man is not his own; it is not in a man that walketh to direct his steps.

I don't think I would ever bother praying for someone to come to know God if they had free will.

Interesting looking at the verses in other versions

[h=3]Romans 11:32[/h]The Message (MSG)

30-32 There was a time not so long ago when you were on the outs with God. But then the Jews slammed the door on him and things opened up for you. Now they are on the outs. But with the door held wide open for you, they have a way back in. In one way or another, God makes sure that we all experience what it means to be outside so that he can personally open the door and welcome us back in.

Read it in context and you see that nobody believed GOD He put us all in the same box so all could see what HE did for us. It has nothing to do with free will, or lack of it.



[h=3]Proverbs 21:30[/h]Amplified Bible (AMP)

30 There is no [human] wisdom or understanding or counsel [that can prevail] against the Lord.

Right! No man made plan can thwart GOD's plans. Nothing to do with free will.

[h=3]Proverbs 21:1[/h]Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

21 The king’s heart in Adonai’s hand is like streams of water —
he directs it wherever he pleases.

God puts kings in place. HE allows things to happen according to HIS will and the Kings follow. Even Kings cannot affect GOD's plans.

[h=3]Proverbs 16:9[/h]Common English Bible (CEB)

9 (Righteous) People plan their path,
but the Lord secures their steps

[h=3]Psalm 37:23[/h]King James Version (KJV)

23 The steps of a good man are ordered (directed) by the Lord: and he delighteth in his way.

That does not preclude free will.

[h=3]Jeremiah 10:23[/h]The Message (MSG)

23-25 I know, God, that mere mortals
can’t run their own lives,
That men and women
don’t have what it takes to take charge of life.
So correct us, God, as you see best.
Don’t lose your temper. That would be the end of us.
Vent your anger on the godless nations,
who refuse to acknowledge you,
And on the people
who won’t pray to you—
The very ones who’ve made hash out of Jacob,
yes, made hash
And devoured him whole,
people and pastures alike.

LOL What a wonderful way to put that!! We in our own wills do not have the wisdom to run our own lives in such a way as to attain salvation. Again free will is not contravened.

GOD does not override our free wills. HE says you choose this day. I put before you blessings and cursings, life and death. Choose. Then HE even makes that choice easy. HE says "Choose life." Again we can still choose death.