God bless american?

[Tzeentch]

I heard you, Jesuslovesu, I just continue to disagree with your approach. It seems to be that you're giving up on the conversation because I'm not going to come round to your opinions, drop it and turn the remainder of this thread into a prayer session.

You maintain this thread is purposeless, I disagree. I think a lot can be learned by seeing the divides and trying to understand why they've come about. Blindly believing your own way to be right is the first step towards fundamentalism.

Dave...its a little worrying if things not directly related to God bring down your faith in God, surely?

 

[ladybug76]

Hhhmm,
it seems to me that YOU are the one who keeps posting and continuing the argument because YOU want people to SUBMIT to your beliefs! It goes both ways, Tzeentch. Talk about fundamentalism!!
God Bless you

 

[Nigh]

To answer the origonal question posted by the now banned Legendary, "God bless America" is the name, and lyrics from a song.
concider this:

America's unofficial national anthem was composed by an immigrant who left his home in Siberia for America when he was only five years old. The original version of "God Bless America" was written by Irving Berlin (1888-1989) during the summer of 1918 at Camp Upton, located in Yaphank, Long Island, for his Ziegfeld-style revue, Yip, Yip, Yaphank.(a play) "Make her victorious on land and foam, God Bless America..." ran the original lyric. However, Berlin decided that the solemn tone of "God Bless America" was somewhat out of keeping with the more comedic elements of the show and the song was laid aside.


In the fall of 1938, as war was again threatening Europe, Berlin decided to write a "peace" song. He recalled his "God Bless America" from twenty years earlier and made some alterations to reflect the different state of the world. Singer Kate Smith introduced the revised "God Bless America" during her radio broadcast on Armistice Day, 1938. The song was an immediate sensation; the sheet music was in great demand. Berlin soon established the God Bless America Fund, dedicating the royalties to the Boy and Girl Scouts of America.

It is often used in times of unrest and war but not limited to those times. Reason being is it is a "peace song". While Europe was at the brink of war, a Russian imigrant who moved to America when very young, wrote a song basically showing his gratitude that the war was not happening in his backyard. He was thanking God for that, while also askig God to keep his home safe. "...stand beside her and guide her..."

This 1st time I recall Bush using this phrase was the first time addressing the Nation after 9/11. At that time, not one US bomb had been dropped, or not one US solider had fired a shot. He was using this phrase to give the people of the US hope, and to remind us that God is standing beside us, and guiding us in this time of trouble. It was not to "cover up" the warmongering. Nor is it suppose to impress upon anyone that the US is 'better' than any other nation. Just the opposite. Accually it is saying the the US is in greater need than many other nations of Gods guidance. It is truly a humbling thing to say. Kinda like..."God help us, we really need it." Not, like a kid shouting 'Me! Me! Me! Me! Me!' from the back of the class. It's a plea for help. God's help, and why would any Christian think that you must 'deserve' it first? It is for God to decide whether or not you get his blessing, regaurdless if you "deserve" it or not. Did Adam or Eve "deserve" to live in the garden? If so, then explain, if not, then why did God let them live there?


Regaurdless of your opinions of George W. Bush, or American policies, or America in general, this thread was asking about this specific phrase. It was not an invite to 'bash' America. The moment it strayed from trying to answer this question, this thread did became purposeless. Kudos to Jesuslovesu for taking the "high ground" on this one, and stepping away from this tread. I one day hope to have the stregnth that you do.

Saying "God save the Queen" is fine. Saying "God bless America" is fine. America hasn't done anything to 'deserve' Gods blessing. Guess what, neither have I. And I thank God that I don't have to do works to recieve his blessing, because if that were the case...I'd be a long time waiting. I fall short of the Glory of God all the time, as does America. (as does the everyone, including the Queen) I'm not better than anyone, and neither is America. That doesn't mean we can't ask for his blessing. We ask, because we are in need.

"...ask, and ye shall recieve..." Or don't ask, because some other nations might get the impression that you are saying that you 'deserve' God's blessing more than them, or that you are 'better'. (I can't find this quote in scripture anywhere, and someone help?)

God bless us all, including America,
Nigh

 

[Tzeentch]

Thank you, Nigh. I appreciate you taking the time to respond productively. I think, though, that U2K was referring to the use of the phrase, rather than its origins. To quote him:

"I like to say GOD Bless the whole world, only because GOD is not going to bless one nation and leave the rest out, just wouldnt make sense."

That was the basis of the line of discussion I've been taking: this thread has never strayed from U2K's original point. I agree with you that the phrase was used before the US retaliated to 9/11. I agree that at the time it might have been used in the most peaceable, humble way that you illustrate. When George Bush said it, it was almost certainly with the best of intentions...but since then, its meaning has been altered by the extent to which it has been used, and the *way* in which it has been used.

God Bless America might have started out as a peaceful, humble statement...but it has become inextricably intertwined with American nationalism. If you have a moment, take a read of the Rev. Marie Jonesedited to remove link)

I think she puts it rather better than I have. Hopefully you'll see that I'm not 'bashing' America and never was. For the lazy who don't want to link to the article, two key quotes:

"When you see people waving flags and yelling out car windows, 'God Bless America and all you Muslims go home!'...you have crossed that fine line into fanaticism, intolerance, bigotry and hatred."

And her closing line is in agreement with myself and U2K:

"How about a new bumper sticker: God Bless the Universe?"

The Queen was never the issue - someone tried to make a comparison, implying I was a hypocrit, and I pointed out why a) the comparison didn't work, and b) it wasn't the point I was making in the first place. In response to your own question, I'm not saying that God gives blessing only to those who deserve it, but by his own words, He lends his greatest strength to those in need.

When any person is in need, and asks for God's help, or his blessings, then I have no problem at all. I'm arguing that the current trend in use of God Bless America is not as a request from a position of need, but as a statement of arrogance and implied power.

If that is a conversation that you do not wish to have with me, for whatever reason, then by all means don't continue the discussion. But that *is* what we've been discussing.

Ladybug, I don't want people to submit to anything I say or do. If people read what I've been saying, understand what I'm talking about and disagree, good for them. Equally, it wouldn't surprise me if other find themselves in agreement with me.

I'm not saying that I'm right, agree with me or be damned. I'm raising an issue that a lot of people in America might not even consider to *be* an issue unless they actually thought about it, and one which they probably would never have encountered because you have to look at it as an outsider to understand why its even an issue at all.

I just feel that sticking your fingers in your ears and going 'La! La! La!' is counterproductive. It might prevent you from having to think about a tricky subject, but it doesn't make the subject go away and stop being a problem.

With reference to Jesuslovesu, I don't think the moral high ground lies with the person who says "I'm not having this discussion because its awkward". If he/she had put forward a reasoned argument as to why he/she disagreed (as Nigh has done) and said "That's what I feel, I don't believe you're right, I have nothing more to add" then fine.