God Creating Hardships

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Job 1:1; There was a man in the land of Uz whose name was Job; and that man was blameless, upright, fearing God and turning away from evil.

Job 1:8; The Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered My servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, fearing God and turning away from evil.”

Job 2:3; The Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered My servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man fearing God and turning away from evil. And he still holds fast his integrity, although you incited Me against him to ruin him without cause.”

Hi B-A-C,
I see you posted some verses.
What is the point you are wanting to make?
Blessings to you

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

John 9:1-41
As he passed by, he saw a man blind from birth. And his disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?” Jesus answered, “It was not that this man sinned, or his parents, but that the works of God might be displayed in him. We must work the works of him who sent me while it is day; night is coming, when no one can work. As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”

Yes Sir but does this truly say He was Made Blind for this?

Was not Jesus teaching them?
Ever think He was telling them, never mind the reason, there is much work to do.
Jesus did not heal every person He saw. He healed who the Father pointed out.

Yes there are a few times listed where He did heal All that was sick but that was not all times.

He passes over thousands at the pool and only healed on man. Ever ask your self why?

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Job 1:1; There was a man in the land of Uz whose name was Job; and that man was blameless, upright, fearing God and turning away from evil.

Job 1:8; The Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered My servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, fearing God and turning away from evil.”

Job 2:3; The Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered My servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man fearing God and turning away from evil. And he still holds fast his integrity, although you incited Me against him to ruin him without cause.”

Let's put all the verses in and then let's look at this up to where satan got access.

Then let's deal with the rest.
There are some major facts being left out or not seen or understood.
Blessings to you

 

[B-A-C]

Hi B-A-C,
I see you posted some verses.
What is the point you are wanting to make?
Blessings to you

The only point, was I don't see where Job's trials were caused because of "sin" anywhere.
Maybe he wasn't "perfect". Ok... but It still doesn't say this was the result of sin anywhere... in fact it says.

Job 2: But he said to her, “You speak as one of the foolish women speaks. Shall we indeed accept good from God and not accept adversity?” In all this Job did not sin with his lips.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

The only point, was I don't see where Job's trials were caused because of "sin" anywhere.
Maybe he wasn't "perfect". Ok... but It still doesn't say this was the result of sin anywhere... in fact it says.

Job 2: But he said to her, “You speak as one of the foolish women speaks. Shall we indeed accept good from God and not accept adversity?” In all this Job did not sin with his lips.

That's what I thought but wanted to be sure before I present my case.
I will post back on this a little later.
Been a very busy hectic few days and I am seeking some quiet time later tonight.

Thank you Brother for the Reply.
It helps because I hate thinking something that was not what was said.
Blessings to you

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

1:8; The Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered My servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, fearing God and turning away from evil.”

Add to this Job 1:10
Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.

Now how did satan know this?
Simple, He had been trying over and over and over again to get to Job but could not.

Now do you really think God had no idea that satan was trying to get at Job?

Now do you really think God had no idea what satan was doing when He asked him in Job 1:7
And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

No God Already knew what satan was up to.
Now in Job 1:8
We see
And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

This was not God throwing Job under the bus, no God knew why he was there already and simply was saying so you have set your sight on Job.
God was staying one step ahead of satan.

God did not tell the devil, "Here I put Job into your hands and you do what ever you want".
The devil was poorly mistaken to even suggest such a thing because God was in no way going to stretch out His hand against Job. God NEVER agreed with satin to what satin suggested.

HOWEVER GOD DID SAY THIS......"BEHOLD he is already in your hand"
We don't use the word Behold much at all these days. I mean when was the last time you heard some one say BEHOLD is not this car beautiful ?

Now if you look up this word "Behold" in any of the translations such as Hebrew or Greek or English or Spanish or any other translation...YOU WILL LEARN that it ALWAYS MEANS " Look and see. Wake up and pay attention"

See God was telling satan that JOB had already opened the door to him or had given satan the right to do as he wanted to do. God was simply telling the devil the truth....Job had already tore down the protective hedge around him ( the blessing of God) when he stepped out into fear and worry and doubt. HOWEVER God did sent a boundary.....spare his life or another words satin could do whatever....EXCEPT....KILL JOB...

Then once satan finally grasped that Job had stepped out of or lost the blessing this protective hedge...well you know the story....satin with after job with vengeance.

Next we can dig into why satan had free right at job and yes job himself answered the question.

Blessings to you

 

[Dave M]

NOt one translation uses the word already whear did you get that from??

Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version
The LORD said to Satan, "Very well, then, he is in your hands; but you must spare his life."

New Living Translation
"All right, do with him as you please," the LORD said to Satan. "But spare his life."

English Standard Version
And the LORD said to Satan, “Behold, he is in your hand; only spare his life.”

New American Standard Bible
So the LORD said to Satan, "Behold, he is in your power, only spare his life."

King James Bible
And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life.

Christian Standard Bible
"Very well," the LORD told Satan, "he is in your power; only spare his life."

Contemporary English Version
"All right!" the LORD replied. "Make Job suffer as much as you want, but just don't kill him."

Good News Translation
So the LORD said to Satan, "All right, he is in your power, but you are not to kill him."

Holman Christian Standard Bible
"Very well," the LORD told Satan, "he is in your power; only spare his life."

International Standard Version
Then the LORD told Satan, "Very well then, he is under your control. Just preserve his life."

NET Bible
So the LORD said to Satan, "All right, he is in your power; only preserve his life."

New Heart English Bible
The LORD said to Satan, "Look, he is in your hand. Only spare his life."

GOD'S WORD® Translation
The LORD told Satan, "He is in your power, but you must spare his life!"

JPS Tanakh 1917
And the LORD said unto Satan: 'Behold, he is in thy hand; only spare his life.'

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

The only point, was I don't see where Job's trials were caused because of "sin" anywhere.
Maybe he wasn't "perfect". Ok... but It still doesn't say this was the result of sin anywhere... in fact it says.

Job 2: But he said to her, “You speak as one of the foolish women speaks. Shall we indeed accept good from God and not accept adversity?” In all this

Part two.....
It is not taught that God punished Job.
Job opened the door to satan himself. How ? by stepping out of faith and into fear and doubt.
Job spoke his fear constantly and stopped believing or living in faith which took him out side of the blessing which satan called a protective hedge.

Any time a believer trades in their faith for doubt or fear then they give the devil a right or shot at them that he the devil should not have had. This is not God doing anything other then allowing His word to do what he said it would do.

Out Of The Mouth Of Job
Job 3 we see Job running his mouth in error and judgment.
First part he was mad and questing God
Second part he admits his error
Then later God shows up and deals with Job.

Let's start at jobs omittance

3:25.. For the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me, and that which I was afraid of is come unto me.
3:26.. I was not in safety, neither had I rest, neither was I quiet; yet trouble came.


The thing I feared and spoke about and talked about and worried about

I stepped out of His blessing and faith over into doubt and fear where I was easy prey for the devil.

I paced the floor just like people today do all worried and upset. I could not relax nor could I sleep soundly

I ran my mouth speaking my fears and left my praise and trust and faith in God behind and look- this trouble came on me. Just what I was talking about came on me. The devil found me un-protected

People tend to trip over this
Job did not sin with his mouth
......In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.

In all of this, Job did not sin by blaming God.

This entire thing was satan wanting to destroy a Blessed, wealthy man of God.
To get job to curse God........job messed up and let satan in but he never blamed God.

Blessings to you

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

NOt one translation uses the word already whear did you get that from??

Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version
The LORD said to Satan, "Very well, then, he is in your hands; but you must spare his life."

New Living Translation
"All right, do with him as you please," the LORD said to Satan. "But spare his life."

English Standard Version
And the LORD said to Satan, “Behold, he is in your hand; only spare his life.”

New American Standard Bible
So the LORD said to Satan, "Behold, he is in your power, only spare his life."

King James Bible
And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life.

Christian Standard Bible
"Very well," the LORD told Satan, "he is in your power; only spare his life."

Contemporary English Version
"All right!" the LORD replied. "Make Job suffer as much as you want, but just don't kill him."

Good News Translation
So the LORD said to Satan, "All right, he is in your power, but you are not to kill him."

Holman Christian Standard Bible
"Very well," the LORD told Satan, "he is in your power; only spare his life."

International Standard Version
Then the LORD told Satan, "Very well then, he is under your control. Just preserve his life."

NET Bible
So the LORD said to Satan, "All right, he is in your power; only preserve his life."

New Heart English Bible
The LORD said to Satan, "Look, he is in your hand. Only spare his life."

GOD'S WORD® Translation
The LORD told Satan, "He is in your power, but you must spare his life!"

JPS Tanakh 1917
And the LORD said unto Satan: 'Behold, he is in thy hand; only spare his life.'

Go back and read it again.
It was not a quote.
Behold or pay attention.
He is in your hand.
Why is that?
In part two I explain why job was already in satan's hands.

It's the same today with you or me.
Perverted talk. Words opposed to God's Words. Words opposed to faith, worry , doubt, fear and unbelief.

Blessings to you

 

[Dave M]

JIm brother not to be nit picky but when you put quote marks around it like you did it says its a quote thanks for clearing it up that it was not LOL

here it is for you to see your words not mine

HOWEVER GOD DID SAY THIS......"BEHOLD he is already in your hand"

 

[Born Again 2004]

Not sure about all this. I believe ( one of the things), that God created man for his glory. I also know that he instituted natural laws...i.e...gravity, what goes up must come down. Maybe he does create illnesses or handicaps for his glory, I certainly am not one to say what God does or doesn't do, But, saying that, I think we live in a corrupt, sinful world controlled by Satin. Bad things happen...it is not so much that God creates problems for people or handicaps, abnormalities and such but, for sure, he is interested in how we react to these issues and still give him the glory!

 

[Bill]

Hi Dave,
Actually Neither!
The O.P is claiming God causes these things so His Glory can be seen.

We are in a season of Grace.
This will end and we can see this in the Revelation of Jesus.

If God were punishing people for disobedience , then all the evil people would be taken out, but His Grace is Holding Him back for now.

When His People get involved according to How He has stated in His Word, then He can and will get involved.

Now with that said - there is always Consequences for Disobedience for the Believer.

We miss out on God.
We put ourselves in an unprotected AREA.
It gives satan legal right into your life that he should not have had.
It hinders and stops God's power from working and our prayers from producing.

For the believer, thank God for Grace and 1John1:9. Just as fast as we repent we are forgiven and can get back on track.

Under this new covenant with God, He has made Himself accountable to His Word and Will NOT go against it.

Look at Psalm 115:16
The heavens belong to the LORD, but he has given the earth to all humanity.

Adam gave it away and Jesus Got it back for us.

The church is responsible to remove, overcome and take authority over things but has failed in doing so.

The government does more then the church and that's a slap in Jesus face.

No Sir this thread is so far off its scary thinking a rooted in Christ believer would even think such a thing.

No Sir, it's not God but this evil in this world from the curse FROM DISOBEDIENCE in the first place.

Ask your self this. Who benefits to these type of statements?

God makes people sick.
God uses bad to teach you.
It's a sin to be a wealthy Christian.
Those who teach we can rise above poverty and so called middle class are false teachers.

Now think
What does satan use to attract people.
Wealth
Success
Power
Fun

So painting God to be an unpredictability God who uses sickness and tragedies and so forth to show He is God is yet another avenue satan uses. Sad thing is he has more Christians helping him then you might believe.

Church fights over doctrine and Christians putting down on one another- ask your self this ..... would you want to give up your life doing as you please for that? Hardly.

No my Brother, God is not behind this junk.
Blessings to you

Whe

Hi Dave,
Actually Neither!
The O.P is claiming God causes these things so His Glory can be seen.

We are in a season of Grace.
This will end and we can see this in the Revelation of Jesus.

If God were punishing people for disobedience , then all the evil people would be taken out, but His Grace is Holding Him back for now.

When His People get involved according to How He has stated in His Word, then He can and will get involved.

Now with that said - there is always Consequences for Disobedience for the Believer.

We miss out on God.
We put ourselves in an unprotected AREA.
It gives satan legal right into your life that he should not have had.
It hinders and stops God's power from working and our prayers from producing.

For the believer, thank God for Grace and 1John1:9. Just as fast as we repent we are forgiven and can get back on track.

Under this new covenant with God, He has made Himself accountable to His Word and Will NOT go against it.

Look at Psalm 115:16
The heavens belong to the LORD, but he has given the earth to all humanity.

Adam gave it away and Jesus Got it back for us.

The church is responsible to remove, overcome and take authority over things but has failed in doing so.

The government does more then the church and that's a slap in Jesus face.

No Sir this thread is so far off its scary thinking a rooted in Christ believer would even think such a thing.

No Sir, it's not God but this evil in this world from the curse FROM DISOBEDIENCE in the first place.

Ask your self this. Who benefits to these type of statements?

God makes people sick.
God uses bad to teach you.
It's a sin to be a wealthy Christian.
Those who teach we can rise above poverty and so called middle class are false teachers.

Now think
What does satan use to attract people.
Wealth
Success
Power
Fun

So painting God to be an unpredictability God who uses sickness and tragedies and so forth to show He is God is yet another avenue satan uses. Sad thing is he has more Christians helping him then you might believe.

Church fights over doctrine and Christians putting down on one another- ask your self this ..... would you want to give up your life doing as you please for that? Hardly.

No my Brother, God is not behind this junk.
Blessings to you

It is written in the Scripture: " the Kingdom of Heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in a field. While everyone slept his enemy came , sowed darnell all amoung the wheat, and made off. When the new wheat sprouted and ripened, the darnell appeared as well. The owners servants went to him and said, "Sir, was it not good seed that you sowed in your field? If so, where does the darnell come from

You can not be serious here.
Its like a trick question.

Its like saying if we were all healthy we would not have compassion for the sick.

Or if we all were bald we would have no compassion for the barber.

This is right up there with unconditional ways to be born again.

My friend. Im not trying to change the subject. But ive gotten used to your tone, and these last few days you just seem rough around the edges. Everything ok.

Maybe it is nothing. Peace friend

 

[Bill]

Whe

It is written in the Scripture: " the Kingdom of Heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in a field. While everyone slept his enemy came , sowed darnell all amoung the wheat, and made off. When the new wheat sprouted and ripened, the darnell appeared as well. The owners servants went to him and said, "Sir, was it not good seed that you sowed in your field? If so, where does the darnell come from

My friend. Im not trying to change the subject. But ive gotten used to your tone, and these last few days you just seem rough around the edges. Everything ok.

Maybe it is nothing. Peace friend

Computers i dont think i will understand them, ever. The above text should not be there, except for the last part. Not changing the topic

 

[At Peace]

Hmmm....Job..."That which I greatly feared has come upon me." Was Job walking in faith? No....Romans 14:23And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
Romans 14:23 So then...Job was walking in sin, and his attack was a result.

Jesus was pretty "fearful" when He prayed in the garden of Gethsemane.
That wasn't sin.
You accidentally turned a scripture about eating meats (sacrificed to rock and stone), into something unintended.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

It is written in the Scripture: " the Kingdom of Heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in a field. While everyone slept his enemy came , sowed darnell all amoung the wheat, and made off. When the new wheat sprouted and ripened, the darnell appeared as well. The owners servants went to him and said, "Sir, was it not good seed that you sowed in your field? If so, where does the darnell come from

Exactly an enemy. Not God

My friend. Im not trying to change the subject. But ive gotten used to your tone, and these last few days you just seem rough around the edges. Everything ok.

Maybe it is nothing. Peace friend

I really don't have any time or attitude.
I was writing fast in between breaks. Maybe that's it.
I apologize if I sounded harsh.
Blessings to you

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Jesus was pretty "fearful" when He prayed in the garden of Gethsemane.
That wasn't sin.
You accidentally turned a scripture about eating meats (sacrificed to rock and stone), into something unintended.

Fearful?

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

JIm brother not to be nit picky but when you put quote marks around it like you did it says its a quote thanks for clearing it up that it was not LOL

here it is for you to see your words not mine

HOWEVER GOD DID SAY THIS......"BEHOLD he is already in your hand"

Ok see o just learned something. I just used those to mark that one statement .
I apologize for any confusion .
Blessings to you

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Jesus was pretty "fearful" when He prayed in the garden of Gethsemane.
That wasn't sin.
You accidentally turned a scripture about eating meats (sacrificed to rock and stone), into something unintended.

The word was sorrowful which was grieved.
Not Fear.

How many times are we told fear not?
You then claim Jesus was pretty fearful.

Not Hardly

 

[Dave M]

I am trying to understand this so let me sum up what I think you are saying Jim, any trials and tribulations a person has he brings on him self because he opened the door for satan?? is this what you are saying Jim??

 

[B-A-C]

Somehow this thread has veered. I'm shocked!

But since we are on the subject of Job....

Job 1:13; Now on the day when his sons and his daughters were eating and drinking wine in their oldest brother's house,
Job 1:14; a messenger came to Job and said, "The oxen were plowing and the donkeys feeding beside them,
Job 1:15; and the Sabeans attacked and took them. They also slew the servants with the edge of the sword, and I alone have escaped to tell you."
Job 1:16; While he was still speaking, another also came and said, "The fire of God fell from heaven and burned up the sheep and the servants and consumed them, and I alone have escaped to tell you."
Job 1:17; While he was still speaking, another also came and said, "The Chaldeans formed three bands and made a raid on the camels and took them and slew the servants with the edge of the sword, and I alone have escaped to tell you."
Job 1:18; While he was still speaking, another also came and said, "Your sons and your daughters were eating and drinking wine in their oldest brother's house,
Job 1:19; and behold, a great wind came from across the wilderness and struck the four corners of the house, and it fell on the young people and they died, and I alone have escaped to tell you."
Job 1:20; Then Job arose and tore his robe and shaved his head, and he fell to the ground and worshiped.
Job 1:21; He said, "Naked I came from my mother's womb, And naked I shall return there. The LORD gave and the LORD has taken away. Blessed be the name of the LORD."
Job 1:22; Through all this Job did not sin nor did he blame God.

Talk about a bad day. Four messengers come... each with worse news than the previous messenger.
All your servants (except me) are dead. All your livestock is dead. All your camels and transportation are gone.
then finally... all your sons and daughter are dead too. It seems this all happened on the same day.

It seems to me... the purpose of Satan testing Job... was to see if he "would" sin when the trials came.
Verse 22 says he (Job) did not sin. (at least on this day). Yet Job acknowledges "the LORD has taken away".
But he did this in a way... "nor did he blame God".

The collateral damage here is hard to take in. Atheists and non Christians have used this passage to show how
"evil" God is. What did Job lose?

Job 1:2; Seven sons and three daughters were born to him.
Job 1:3; His possessions also were 7,000 sheep, 3,000 camels, 500 yoke of oxen, 500 female donkeys, and very many servants; and that man was the greatest of all the men of the east.

10 children. 11,000 animals,... and "very many" servants. The question has been asked... why did God take the lives of his "innocent"
family? I don't know how innocent they were.

Job 1:5; When the days of feasting had completed their cycle, Job would send and consecrate them, rising up early in the morning and offering burnt offerings according to the number of them all; for Job said, "Perhaps my sons have sinned and cursed God in their hearts." Thus Job did continually.

Job seems to think it's possible that they sinned. Now we may think that Job sinned "just like everyone else". But it seems Job was different. No one else on the earth was "like him".

Job 1:8; The LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered My servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, fearing God and turning away from evil."

Job 2:3; The LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered My servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man fearing God and turning away from evil. And he still holds fast his integrity, although you incited Me against him to ruin him without cause."

If anything... this seems to say to me.... even if you "are" blameless and upright, bad things can happen to you.

Still God was willing to take away Job's family to prove a point to Satan.

2 Tim 3:12; Indeed, all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will be persecuted.

If you want to get technical... God didn't do anything to Job's family. He "allowed" Satan to do these things.
I believe it is the same way today. Satan may do "bad things" to us, and those we love. But not without God's permission.

Other's in the Bible didn't do as well as Job when they were tested.

Luke 22:31; "Simon, Simon, behold, Satan has demanded permission to sift you like wheat;