Holy Spirit

[Eddy Fire]

what is this speaking in tongues the original poster asks about?
is it for edifying the body?
if so, how?
only instructional references to the two parts of the question are in Corinthians and it is worth noting that chapter 13 is smack in the middle of what Paul is writing about
if it isn't rooted and grounded in agape/love (charity) it must be questioned
that's what the point of the spiritual being for the use of edifying and building up
do not be deceived
Do not err, my beloved brethren. Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. James 1:16-17

 

[EphremHagos]

A perfect example of speaking in tongues is baptism with the Holy Spirit, for the sole purpose of personal knowledge of Jesus Christ, based on the vision of his unique distinction of being "the first-born from the dead" appropriately timed with his Spirit-active, perfect and diacritical death on the cross with multiplying effect! This is exactly what is documented on the day Christ died on the cross.

Whatever language is used to express the content, a.k.a., "the message", the true believers are edified while unbelievers mystified. (Matt. 27: 50-56)

what is this speaking in tongues the original poster asks about?
is it for edifying the body?
if so, how?
only instructional references to the two parts of the question are in Corinthians and it is worth noting that chapter 13 is smack in the middle of what Paul is writing about
if it isn't rooted and grounded in agape/love (charity) it must be questioned
that's what the point of the spiritual being for the use of edifying and building up
do not be deceived
Do not err, my beloved brethren. Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. James 1:16-17

 

[B-A-C]

I believe in the gifts on the Holy Spirit and believe many people do and should speak in tongues. But I don't believe you have to speak in tongues to get 'baptized' in the Holy Spirit.

I believe once you get saved you have the Holy Spirit. It isn't Holy Spirit type A + Holy Spirit type B. The Bible says there is one Spirit. 1Cor 12:13
The Bible says not all speak in tongues. 1 Cor 12:30

 

[eldon]

I believe in the gifts on the Holy Spirit and believe many people do and should speak in tongues. But I don't believe you have to speak in tongues to get 'baptized' in the Holy Spirit.

I believe once you get saved you have the Holy Spirit. It isn't Holy Spirit type A + Holy Spirit type B. The Bible says there is one Spirit. 1Cor 12:13
The Bible says not all speak in tongues. 1 Cor 12:30

My "Spirit" of Elijah is getting angry at this...i think there's 7 Spirits of God. how they manifest is just details.
And when you get saved you have Christ in you.
When you get baptized you can receive the Holy Spirit, even if you don't ask for It.
however, you have to seek the Will of the Father, through Jesus, and Jesus will intercede on your behalf and you will receive the Holy Spirit in increasing measure over time. You may not even have to ask for giftings you can slowly receive them.
If you ask Jesus for the Holy Spirit before you get baptized then when you receive it the Holy Spirit will tell you to get Baptized. and no that's not an option.

I can pray in tongues, but only after someone who can pray in tongues prayed over me and I received that gift from her so to speak.

What is the purpose of praying in tongues? Satan only hears the words we speak, and indeed someone on this forum got some information from Satan concerning my arguments with God.
And because i have many gifts of the Spirit, indeed i had them along with Christ in me when I was born on this planet, I've never asked for any of them, occasionally Jesus tells me to pray in tongues, because it is a protected prayer language that only your Heart knows. Your mind does not understand the words, because that is the point of praying in tongues, so that your mind and satan cannot understand the words, because part of satan is in your mind. he multiplied himself through the reptilian brain stem, the tree of knowledge of good and evil. part of your sin nature/corrupted flesh is your DNA.
oh, but the heart is deceitfully wicked too, don't get me wrong
I found that out in a dream a short time ago. maybe Jasonsloss will show up in this thread to tell you what i did.

take what i said up with God, i'm not going to argue about this.

btw: i can only pray in tongues when i have a reason to, any other "speaking in tongues is faking it, and Jesus told me not to do that. Indeed, I don't even intend to tell anyone, because they will probably blaspheme the Holy Spirit by saying i have a demon in me or something.

 

[B-A-C]

My "Spirit" of Elijah is getting angry at this...i think there's 7 Spirits of God. how they manifest is just details.
And when you get saved you have Christ in you.
When you get baptized you can receive the Holy Spirit, even if you don't ask for It.
however, you have to seek the Will of the Father, through Jesus, and Jesus will intercede on your behalf and you will receive the Holy Spirit in increasing measure over time. You may not even have to ask for giftings you can slowly receive them.
If you ask Jesus for the Holy Spirit before you get baptized then when you receive it the Holy Spirit will tell you to get Baptized. and no that's not an option.

I can pray in tongues, but only after someone who can pray in tongues prayed over me and I received that gift from her so to speak.

What is the purpose of praying in tongues? Satan only hears the words we speak, and indeed someone on this forum got some information from Satan concerning my arguments with God.
And because i have many gifts of the Spirit, indeed i had them along with Christ in me when I was born on this planet, I've never asked for any of them, occasionally Jesus tells me to pray in tongues, because it is a protected prayer language that only your Heart knows. Your mind does not understand the words, because that is the point of praying in tongues, so that your mind and satan cannot understand the words, because part of satan is in your mind. he multiplied himself through the reptilian brain stem, the tree of knowledge of good and evil. part of your sin nature/corrupted flesh is your DNA.
oh, but the heart is deceitfully wicked too, don't get me wrong
I found that out in a dream a short time ago. maybe Jasonsloss will show up in this thread to tell you what i did.

take what i said up with God, i'm not going to argue about this.

btw: i can only pray in tongues when i have a reason to, any other "speaking in tongues is faking it, and Jesus told me not to do that. Indeed, I don't even intend to tell anyone, because they will probably blaspheme the Holy Spirit by saying i have a demon in me or something.

There are seven spirits, in fact there are even more than that if you count unclean spirits. However there is only ONE Holy Spirit.
If you have scripture proving otherwise I would like to see it.

As for the reason to speak in tongues being so Satan can't understand us, that might be true part of the time.
But does he understand the interpretation of the tongues afterwards?

1 Cor 14:5 Now I wish that you all spoke in tongues, but even more that you would prophesy; and greater is one who prophesies than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may receive edifying.
1 Cor 14:6 But now, brethren, if I come to you speaking in tongues, what will I profit you unless I speak to you either by way of revelation or of knowledge or of prophecy or of teaching?

Because of these verses some churches believe that a public speaking out in tongues (usually fairly loudly to the whole congregation, not quietly or privately) must be followed up with
an interpretation. This could be a prophecy, a word of knowledge, or a teaching.

1 Cor 14:13 Therefore let one who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret.

This is different from the private prayer language, that some believers use.

 

[eldon]

There are seven spirits, in fact there are even more than that if you count unclean spirits. However there is only ONE Holy Spirit.
If you have scripture proving otherwise I would like to see it.

As for the reason to speak in tongues being so Satan can't understand us, that might be true part of the time.
But does he understand the interpretation of the tongues afterwards?

1 Cor 14:5 Now I wish that you all spoke in tongues, but even more that you would prophesy; and greater is one who prophesies than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may receive edifying.
1 Cor 14:6 But now, brethren, if I come to you speaking in tongues, what will I profit you unless I speak to you either by way of revelation or of knowledge or of prophecy or of teaching?

Because of these verses some churches believe that a public speaking out in tongues (usually fairly loudly to the whole congregation, not quietly or privately) must be followed up with
an interpretation. This could be a prophecy, a word of knowledge, or a teaching.

1 Cor 14:13 Therefore let one who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret.

This is different from the private prayer language, that some believers use.

There are 4 references to the seven Spirits of God in Revelation.
1:4, 3:1, 4:5, 5:6

one prophet who i have not gotten confirmation on said the seven Spirits of God move through the earth in 7 year cycles. --this explains why there's always someone who thinks its the end of the world lol.

i can't see why the Lord would ever ask me to speak in tongues to anyone. unless we're talking about a foreign language, which is a different "tongue"

 

[EphremHagos]

Yes, there surely are the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

I submit that "speaking in tongues" is the same as "speaking in our own languages about the great things that God has done". (Acts 2:11) The subject is about "the secrets of the Kingdom of heaven" and is learnable only by disciples of all times. (Matt. 13: 11-13)

The syllabus specifically refers to the mandatory requirement of change in one's way of thinking for understanding of and commitment to Christ's death on the cross as the unique instrument of his self-revelation for posterity. This rules out the use of gibberish language!

I believe in the gifts on the Holy Spirit and believe many people do and should speak in tongues. But I don't believe you have to speak in tongues to get 'baptized' in the Holy Spirit.

I believe once you get saved you have the Holy Spirit. It isn't Holy Spirit type A + Holy Spirit type B. The Bible says there is one Spirit. 1Cor 12:13
The Bible says not all speak in tongues. 1 Cor 12:30

 

[eldon]

Yes, there surely are the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

I submit that "speaking in tongues" is the same as "speaking in our own languages about the great things that God has done". (Acts 2:11) The subject is about "the secrets of the Kingdom of heaven" and is learnable only by disciples of all times. (Matt. 13: 11-13)

The syllabus specifically refers to the mandatory requirement of change in one's way of thinking for understanding of and commitment to Christ's death on the cross as the unique instrument of his self-revelation for posterity. This rules out the use of gibberish language!

speaking in Tongues for the purposes of sharing the gospel with those who speak a different language is surely a differant gift then praying in tongues, which is something i am commanded to do on occasion.
Why then would God tell me to learn Russian?!

even if you are given the gift of speaking in a foriegn tongue for the purpose of sharing the gospel, you still cannot understand what you said!
speaking gibberish is right! this is exactly the reason the Lord of Hosts told me not to fake it!.

 

[tinks]

Your answer raises more questions than it responds to. Here is why.

Being "spiritually born again of the Spirit", without the given Terms of Reference (specific to Christ's death on the cross), is "satanic" as testified by Nicodemus et al. and Simon Peter, respectively.

(John 3: 1-15; 19: 30-42; Matt. 16: 21-23; ff.)

The body of Christ I am obviously referring to is "the church"

 

[B-A-C]

Yes, there surely are the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

I submit that "speaking in tongues" is the same as "speaking in our own languages about the great things that God has done". (Acts 2:11) The subject is about "the secrets of the Kingdom of heaven" and is learnable only by disciples of all times. (Matt. 13: 11-13)

The syllabus specifically refers to the mandatory requirement of change in one's way of thinking for understanding of and commitment to Christ's death on the cross as the unique instrument of his self-revelation for posterity. This rules out the use of gibberish language!

I'm not really sure what you are saying here, but I agree with you as far as "gibberish languages".
As for speaking "in our own language", I don't think that is what it is saying here.

Act 2:5 There were many Jews staying in Jerusalem just then, devout pilgrims from all over the world.
Act 2:6 When they heard the sound, they came on the run. Then when they heard, one after another, their own mother tongues being spoken, they were thunderstruck.
Act 2:7 They couldn't for the life of them figure out what was going on, and kept saying, "Aren't these all Galileans?
Act 2:8 How come we're hearing them talk in our various mother tongues?
Act 2:9 Parthians, Medes, and Elamites; Visitors from Mesopotamia, Judea, and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia,
Act 2:10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya belonging to Cyrene; Immigrants from Rome,
Act 2:11 both Jews and proselytes; Even Cretans and Arabs! "They're speaking our languages, describing God's mighty works!"

What I gather here is that the Parthians, Medes, Egyptians, Arabs, etc... were amazed that the Galileans knew their language(s).
I also believe the Galileans didn't "know" these languages but were given a supernatural ability to speak them.

While the tongues were pretty amazing, I think for me, the tongues of fire on peoples heads, and the sound like a mighty rushing wind would have been more amazing.

Having said all this, I'm one of those that voted everyone doesn't have to speak in tongues in order to have the Holy Spirit.

 

[bgsda]

I would have to say that this thread by far is the scariest one yet. Sorry guys. To me I believe speaking in tongues(different language understood), like lets say i go to Phillipines and i go to preach and no one is there to translate but i preach the sermon in English but everyoone there understood it not knowing English, thats speakong in tongues. Not the one everyone is talking about.

I believe the one everyone is writting about is from a spirit but not the Holy Spirit.

 

[eldon]

I would have to say that this thread by far is the scariest one yet. Sorry guys. To me I believe speaking in tongues(different language understood), like lets say i go to Phillipines and i go to preach and no one is there to translate but i preach the sermon in English but everyoone there understood it not knowing English, thats speakong in tongues. Not the one everyone is talking about.

I believe the one everyone is writting about is from a spirit but not the Holy Spirit.

you got that backwards. If you went to the phillipines and preached a sermon in spanglish (sorry i'm a bit drunk right now) and didn't understand a word you said, but the Holy Spirit fell on the congregation and everyone in the room felt the presence of God, that would be speaking in tongues!

I suppose you could say the interpretation of tongues could also include discerning a foreign language spoken.

 

[B-A-C]

I would have to say that this thread by far is the scariest one yet. Sorry guys. To me I believe speaking in tongues(different language understood), like lets say i go to Phillipines and i go to preach and no one is there to translate but i preach the sermon in English but everyoone there understood it not knowing English, thats speakong in tongues. Not the one everyone is talking about.

I believe the one everyone is writting about is from a spirit but not the Holy Spirit.

Mark 16:17 "These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues;

Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance.

1 Cor 14:5 Now I wish that you all spoke in tongues, but even more that you would prophesy; and greater is one who prophesies than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may receive edifying.
1 Cor 14:6 But now, brethren, if I come to you speaking in tongues, what will I profit you unless I speak to you either by way of revelation or of knowledge or of prophecy or of teaching?

It says here if you speak in tongues to the church and no one interprets it, then it really doesn't help anyone.

1 Cor 14:22 So then tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophecy is for a sign, not to unbelievers but to those who believe.
You have to admit, if you saw someone you knew didn't understand a certain language start speaking it coherently, that would be a pretty amazing thing.

Especially back then, they didn't have the internet and computers to teach them, or even colleges to teach them foreign languages.
For most of the poorer Jews (especially Galileans) they couldn't have afforded a higher education anyway. Unless you were going to major in "religion" as a pharisee or scribe.

 

[EphremHagos]

IMPORTANT

Let's talk about and agree on the syllabus which specifically refers to the mandatory requirement of change in one's way of thinking for understanding of and commitment to Christ's death on the cross as the unique instrument for defining once and for all his divine identity and absolute authority over death and life (including the reality of man's spiritual rebirth).

All the good things in life (including being born again, salvation, heaven, etc.) are not in the works which originate from man's thoughts rather than God's. (Matt. 16:23)

 

[christbased]

I was wondering, I don't think I have ever heard anyone speak in tongues or done it myself (once I blurted something strange out but whatever).

What is the our Lord's heavly purpose of speaking in tounges? Not trying to be offensive, but if we are just blurting out something, how does that edify the Body or Christ ? Or is it more a natural response to Worship in the Holy Spirit ? I come from zip experience in ever seeing, experiencing or hearing it. By the way, is it not wonderful to be deeply filled with the Holy Spirit! Just allow it, invite it, and let it in, and it protects you from all sides! Walk all day with the Holy Spirit, don't grieve the Spirit and life is good. Praise the Lord

Forgive me, I have a tendency to get into Worship!
:surrender:

 

[EphremHagos]

How do you isolate the counterfeit work of Satan disguised to look like "an angel of light" or the truth? (2 Cor. 11: 1-15)

I was wondering, I don't think I have ever heard anyone speak in tongues or done it myself (once I blurted something strange out but whatever).

What is the our Lord's heavly purpose of speaking in tounges? Not trying to be offensive, but if we are just blurting out something, how does that edify the Body or Christ ? Or is it more a natural response to Worship in the Holy Spirit ? I come from zip experience in ever seeing, experiencing or hearing it. By the way, is it not wonderful to be deeply filled with the Holy Spirit! Just allow it, invite it, and let it in, and it protects you from all sides! Walk all day with the Holy Spirit, don't grieve the Spirit and life is good. Praise the Lord

Forgive me, I have a tendency to get into Worship!
:surrender:

 

[christbased]

Hi EphremHagos,
do you mean in regarding speaking to tongues, or myself being filled with the Holy Spirit ? They are different. I personally have never spoken in tongues to the best of my knowledge. But I do feel completely filled with the Holy Spirit at many times, often throughout the day, I just invite it in, ask the Holy Spirit to fill me.... and I am at total peace, and peace not of this world. I agree, humbly agree, we NEED to test the spirits! as otherwise we could be dealing with the wrong spirit and that is a problem. That is where I find: Worship, Confession of Divinity of Christ and Praising our Lord Jesus Christ comes into play. I would say, no evil spirit can withstand Worship, Confession and Praise of Jesus Christ, at least, that is what I do.

I "recognise" the Holy Spirit, because.... it's Holy and I am not Plus, it's peaceful and orderly. Also, I KNOW what an evil spirit feels like (aggression, lust, apathy, sloth, accusation). That specificly is a question for me as I constantly struggle with an evil spirit (I guess we should classify it correctly, demon) of lust, or I call it "eyes". It overcomes me and directly affects how I look at people, and not in a natural way in which I was born. That happened to me in Aug 1994 and has not left me for good since, though I can drive it away with confession of Christ, authority in rebuking, arguing with it, telling it to leave and outright Worship. I think that is the reason why I often "invite" the Holy Spirit into me, as it helps me deal with this evil spirit that torments me. I know what I am talking about might offend some... but I am amongst the saved, and that is a good thing I think I have to find it's rights, and deal with it at that level.

The thing that is interesting, I AM filled with the Holy Spirit often, especially when I ask it to fill me. When I am DEEPLY filled with the Holy Spirit, this evil spirit of Lust (which affects how I look at people) removes itself from me. Then I get lots of accusations and such. I guess that proves, the Spirit I am filled with is the Holy Spirit, because the evil spirit leaves. You asked EphremHagos, so I answered I hope I did not offend you my brother.

I am not a perfect person sir, but I KNOW who is, and he is seated at the right hand of the Father, and is praying and intervening for us right now! Peace of Christ only.

 

[EphremHagos]

Notwithstanding our other imperfections, which are many and more than covered by the matchless grace of the LORD Jesus, what is more important is that He has recreated and accepted us in his own "living" image. Praise the LORD!

Christ's death on the cross is our only security against the wiles of Satan, who was responsible for seducing, e.g., Simon Peter in the history of denials of Jesus Christ from his confession of faith all the way to the revelation of Christ's glory in his suffering.

I like your filling station. It's a beautiful illustration of Christ's death on the cross as the source of Spirit-filling once and for all. God bless you.

Hi EphremHagos,
do you mean in regarding speaking to tongues, or myself being filled with the Holy Spirit ? They are different. I personally have never spoken in tongues to the best of my knowledge. But I do feel completely filled with the Holy Spirit at many times, often throughout the day, I just invite it in, ask the Holy Spirit to fill me.... and I am at total peace, and peace not of this world. I agree, humbly agree, we NEED to test the spirits! as otherwise we could be dealing with the wrong spirit and that is a problem. That is where I find: Worship, Confession of Divinity of Christ and Praising our Lord Jesus Christ comes into play. I would say, no evil spirit can withstand Worship, Confession and Praise of Jesus Christ, at least, that is what I do.

I "recognise" the Holy Spirit, because.... it's Holy and I am not Plus, it's peaceful and orderly. Also, I KNOW what an evil spirit feels like (aggression, lust, apathy, sloth, accusation). That specificly is a question for me as I constantly struggle with an evil spirit (I guess we should classify it correctly, demon) of lust, or I call it "eyes". It overcomes me and directly affects how I look at people, and not in a natural way in which I was born. That happened to me in Aug 1994 and has not left me for good since, though I can drive it away with confession of Christ, authority in rebuking, arguing with it, telling it to leave and outright Worship. I think that is the reason why I often "invite" the Holy Spirit into me, as it helps me deal with this evil spirit that torments me. I know what I am talking about might offend some... but I am amongst the saved, and that is a good thing I think I have to find it's rights, and deal with it at that level.

The thing that is interesting, I AM filled with the Holy Spirit often, especially when I ask it to fill me. When I am DEEPLY filled with the Holy Spirit, this evil spirit of Lust (which affects how I look at people) removes itself from me. Then I get lots of accusations and such. I guess that proves, the Spirit I am filled with is the Holy Spirit, because the evil spirit leaves. You asked EphremHagos, so I answered I hope I did not offend you my brother.

I am not a perfect person sir, but I KNOW who is, and he is seated at the right hand of the Father, and is praying and intervening for us right now! Peace of Christ only.

 

[christbased]

I understand that some of the spiritual issues I have spoken about above, some may have found offending, or found to be private, or not appropriate for a Christian forum. On the other hand there may be others (saved or not) who have similar spiritual struggles and find an openness to these problems to be a blessing, as they too are looking for help. And the benifit of talking roughly anonymously over the internet to be a safe place to expose ones problems (sin or not).

Regardless, I personally have spiritual issues and I am amongst the Body of Christ, which is good. I have been looking for some kind of Deliverance Ministry in my area, but it seems to be hard to find, at least where I live in Canada. Unsure why. One fellow I was talking to, was great and had a great foundation on spiritual issues.... but he wanted payment. I am OK with that, but I recently became unemployed due to serous health issues that put me in the hospital, and I litterly don't have the dollars. I was thinking of just finding a Church in my local area that might specialize in Deliverance, where I could be with the pastor.

Question, is there anyplace in this forum or internet or resources, where I could/should go for Deliverance ? That people know of...

Many Blessings, a friend in Christ and a friend in need

Edit: I was thinking of Theophostic Prayer, I think I need to get down to "rights"

 

[EphremHagos]

By the grace of God, this is how it is working for me for more than 40 years and counting (as it has for others in the Scriptures).

Keeping our mind, totally and without any reservation whatsoever, focused on the Scriptures specific to Christ's death on the cross, a.k.a., the "tree of life" , the Holy Spirit will reveal the power of immediate deliverance and wonder!

God bless you!

I understand that some of the spiritual issues I have spoken about above, some may have found offending, or found to be private, or not appropriate for a Christian forum. On the other hand there may be others (saved or not) who have similar spiritual struggles and find an openness to these problems to be a blessing, as they too are looking for help. And the benifit of talking roughly anonymously over the internet to be a safe place to expose ones problems (sin or not).

Regardless, I personally have spiritual issues and I am amongst the Body of Christ, which is good. I have been looking for some kind of Deliverance Ministry in my area, but it seems to be hard to find, at least where I live in Canada. Unsure why. One fellow I was talking to, was great and had a great foundation on spiritual issues.... but he wanted payment. I am OK with that, but I recently became unemployed due to serous health issues that put me in the hospital, and I litterly don't have the dollars. I was thinking of just finding a Church in my local area that might specialize in Deliverance, where I could be with the pastor.

Question, is there anyplace in this forum or internet or resources, where I could/should go for Deliverance ? That people know of...

Many Blessings, a friend in Christ and a friend in need

Edit: I was thinking of Theophostic Prayer, I think I need to get down to "rights"