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Homosexuality

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Helping gays see the Light

I know some gay people and the biggest problem I have is finding a way to approach them. The "Turn or Burn approach" as some of the Pagans call it have just the opposite effect of what we try to share with them and they even love to toy and mock with the people trying to reach them. Trying to reason with them either makes them mad or they counter every thing you say and quoting the Bible to them only results in scorn for as they would quickly tell you "I do not believe in God, so why should I care about something someone long ago wrote."

Now they are not bad people, just in need of the Light of Jesus but how do you help those who do not want to be helped (don't know they need help?). Most of them accepted being gay only after many years of searching, questing and tears.

The churches of today are not equipped to help those people and many of us would turn a blind eye - condemming ourselves for letting our brothers and sisters continue in sin because God will hold us accountable for their damnation!

I see we have a real problem here and we need a action plan to do our part in His plan. Have any of you been able to minister to gays? and If so how did you go about it?

I would really like to help those people to break free of this web of lies the Devil have spun around them and to win them over for our Lord.
 
God bless you brother mecartz.

GOD is our source of Truth, Christ being our Living Word. Nothing less will be settled for on Talk Jesus. Nothing.
 
Phumba said:
I know some gay people and the biggest problem I have is finding a way to approach them. The "Turn or Burn approach" as some of the Pagans call it have just the opposite effect of what we try to share with them and they even love to toy and mock with the people trying to reach them. Trying to reason with them either makes them mad or they counter every thing you say and quoting the Bible to them only results in scorn for as they would quickly tell you "I do not believe in God, so why should I care about something someone long ago wrote."

Now they are not bad people, just in need of the Light of Jesus but how do you help those who do not want to be helped (don't know they need help?). Most of them accepted being gay only after many years of searching, questing and tears.

The churches of today are not equipped to help those people and many of us would turn a blind eye - condemming ourselves for letting our brothers and sisters continue in sin because God will hold us accountable for their damnation!

I see we have a real problem here and we need a action plan to do our part in His plan. Have any of you been able to minister to gays? and If so how did you go about it?

I would really like to help those people to break free of this web of lies the Devil have spun around them and to win them over for our Lord.
What would Jesus do? How would He handle the situation? Anything He did that was recorded in Scripture was done under specific instruction from the Father. He depended on the Father for instruction on what to do, when to do it, and how to do it. It wasn't as though the man Jesus was a dummy. It was just that He knew that His wisdom and power came from the Father, not from himself (since He had humbled Himself and taken on human form).

In situations such as you refer to, we need to do our very best to be tuned in to what God is doing in the situation at that very moment. Look at the story of the woman at the well in John 4. It was no mere coincidence that Jesus was at the well when she came to draw water. Jesus went to that well under Divine Inspiration from the Father. He knew He wasn't there just to slake his thirst. His whole conversation with that woman was orchestrated by the Father.

Approaching people with the intention of "preaching the gospel" to them is bound to be fraught with difficullty unless you use Jesus' system. With the woman at the well, He started out by building a relationship with her, which led to her investing some trust in Him. Only then did He begin to draw her toward salvation. And He was totally dependent on His father for the power and wisdom to do that work. In John 5:19, Jesus says, "...the Son can do nothing by Himself. He can only do what He sees His Father doing, because whatever the Father does, the Son also does."

When you are in situations such as you describe, look to the Father for moment to moment direction on what to do and what to say. When you speak a message to those people that the Lord gave you for that specific moment, they will not be able to couinteract it. In Mark 13:11, Jesus says "Whenever you are arrested and brought to trial, do not worry beforehand about what to say. Just say what is given you at the time, for it is not you speaking, but the Holy Spirit."

SLE


SLE
 
Maximus Decimus said:
Since reading this thread, an idea has formed in my mind.. and I wonder what other's opinion is.

Could it be possible, or even likely that, People in this world who say they are 'attracted to others of the same sex', or more often.. 'are not attreacted to those of the opposite sex, so therefore must be gay' could really, given a TRUE faith in God and a closeness to the Holy Spirit... actually be those given the 'gift' of singlesness as Paul would describe it?

I know it seems an odd thought.. but our Lord does work in ways beyond our understanding.

Maybe these unfortunate people that don't understand their sexuality are confused simply for the fact that they were designed by God to be selibate and devoted solely and powerfully to serving Him rather than themselves or each other.

Having read both this thread and the other thread asking the question ‘Homosexuality - is there a cure?’ , Brother Maximus Decimus’ forgoing post spoke to my heart and being an evangelist myself reaching (not exclusively) to the homosexual and pagan community, I have sought Lord and feel constrained as follows.

He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth the needy out of the dunghill. (Ps 113:7 KJV)

We are made right in God’s sight when we trust in Jesus Christ to take away our sins. And we all can be saved in this same way, no matter who we are or what we have done. (Romans 3:22 NLT)

Brother Maximus Decimus’ post brought to my mind one of the many accounts of what God can and is still doing. The following account (one of many) is a true story of which I have first hand knowledge and to which there is living witness. The parties therein are alive and personally known to me. I have permission to reproduce, however their names have been substituted for fairly obvious reasons.

Babu was a teenage male pagan idol worshiper and a male prostitue. With his whole family he was deeply involved in alcoholism, drugs, sexual immorality , violence and crime. Babu was encouraged by his family not to go to school but instead , by any means, to obtain money to feed his and his families wickedness.

One evening Babu, as was his custom, approached an older man and offered his young body in exchange for money. The older single man, Brian - a practicing homosexual, accepted the offer. However, a relationship developed and no money exchanged hands. The two developed a very close and loving bond. It was as though Babu had found the father he craved and Brian had found the son he craved. With Brians help, love and encouragement Babu abandoned his wicked family and turned from his bad ways of drugs and alcohol. After a a short time both gave up the homosexual practice in their relationship but continued to bond more closely.

Babu got a job and became self-sufficient and after a year or so met an older woman and 'fell in love' but all she really wanted was the security of his well-earned cash and was a bad influence on him and lead him into crime again. He finished up serving a longish prison sentence. At this point God put His Mighty Hand on Brians (yes, Brians) life and he became a celibate born again Believer receiving a massive Holy Spirit Baptism, turned from his wicked ways and turned to God. The change was phenomenal!

Now, as a Christian, Brian visited Babu prison and for the first time as a Christian. Brian earnestly wept and prayed before The Lord for his young friend Babu. Until the next visit a month later Brian continued in earnest prayer for his young friend. At the next visit Babu was different something had changed. He relayed to Brian, how during the night in his prison cell at about 3am he was awoken; his prison cell was filled with light. As he gazed into the light he saw a man and fell before Him in awe and repentance. He knew Jesus had come to him at the time of his greatest need and not being aware of his friends fervent prayers for him.

On release from prison, Babu got a good job. The bond between Babu and Brian strengthened but this time in The Lord. They became brothers in Christ. Babu received the joy of the Lord at Brians water baptism.

Babu married a lovely wife and Brian was his best man and a witness. Babu and his wife have been blessed with wonderful healthy children the older ones now being teenagers. Babu’s own mother and father died tragically from alcohol, his mother in a drunken state in her own vomit and his father of cirrhosis of the liver. Brian has taken over as the welcomed and loved, father, grandfather and father-in-law to the whole family.

God marvellously used this whole evil situation to manifest His Glory and Power over evil and turn it to good. What would have been an entire family - and their future offspring - of pagan idol worshipers are now followers and worshipers of Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. "Men meant it for evil, but God meant it for good, that many should be saved" (Joseph).

But the story does not end there. During the time of Babus's incarceration Brian attended a Christian meeting. The lady speaker related how she had a prayer partner; they both had sons, both named Brian. Both sons had been leading wicked lives. The lady speaker went on to say that after over twenty years of praying together for their sons, her prayer partners son had been wonderfully and miraculously saved only a few months previously and turned from his evil ways. To Brians utter amazement it transpired the lady speakers prayer partner was none other than his own elderly widowed mother.

We give Him all the Glory in Jesus’ precious name.

Your brother in Jesus Christ
David
 
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So are people that are simply sexually attracted to the same sex sinning? It doesn't really seem like a choice someone could make for themselves. I know that I do not choose who I am attracted to, but rather that I am just attracted. I cannot do anything to make myself feel an attraction to a water bottle, a giraffe, or even a sheet of aluminum. I don't think people choose who, or what, they are attracted to.
 
fevoldj2 said:
So are people that are simply sexually attracted to the same sex sinning? It doesn't really seem like a choice someone could make for themselves. I know that I do not choose who I am attracted to, but rather that I am just attracted. I cannot do anything to make myself feel an attraction to a water bottle, a giraffe, or even a sheet of aluminum. I don't think people choose who, or what, they are attracted to.
Yes, they are sinning and yes they DO have a choice. The desire/lust of same sex is a dirty spirit that must be and can only be removed in Jesus' name.

Leviticus 18:22 (KJV): "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind it is abomination."
 
The desire is not a sin, though indulging in the thoughts or acts is sin. I, personnally, think of homosexuality as a tendancy. For example I have a tendancy to alcohol since on both sides of my family there are alcoholics- therefore is is genetic. Homosexuality and thoughts of it, I believe can be aroused (by watching, hearing about..etc gay things) and can have a pre-existing tendancy. These two combined and the whole gay movement these days makes it very convenient... but having a tendancy is not a sin... anywho...
Someone asked about ministering to gays... I have a very close friend who's confused in that department and I have found a couple things that are very productive: a) be a friend because you want to be a friend, b) don't judge what she/he is doing is wrong because God condemns us ALL as sinners and one sin is not worse or better than another, c) present both points of views to her/him (why the scriptures aren't actually referring to homosexuality...but just homosexual rape, and in those where it isn't they aren't God's law, but only ceremonial laws- things that don't apply today) and let them choose, d) encourage them to read the Bible and pray and if homosexuality is wrong the Holy Spirit will convince them, not you.
If they aren't a Christian there is NO, I repeat No... once again NO point in trying to convince them being gay is an abomination... they don't give a flying funk. Be a friend and preach God to them.

God Bless* have a great day. Jesus loves you, that's why.
 
I disagree with the whole thing that being gay is a choice, tendancy or whatever flattering word you may want to use. The Bible is specific and no one can undermine the authority of God's word.

Being gay is a choice, as is sin. It was just a tendancy and choice for a non believer to hate all that Jesus stands for and follow their own worldly ways. Just like it is a choice for that unbeliever to stop with their ways and start following Jesus so He can change them.

Stop, I say this with all the love in the world. Read the word and let the Bible speak for itself, not through human interpretation. It's an abomination and the fact is no sweet talk or flattery or human phsycology can change that fact.

God works in mysterious ways, but the Devil works in wonderous ways.
 
Demon or illness?

Chad said:
Yes, they are sinning and yes they DO have a choice. The desire/lust of same sex is a dirty spirit that must be and can only be removed in Jesus' name.

Leviticus 18:22 (KJV): "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind it is abomination."

Blessings to you Brother Chad.

Could I ask you please enlighten me on the following points:

1. What do you mean by a 'dirty spirit' please, it is not a term I am familiar with? If, as a guess, you are ascerting that the homosexual person is possessed of a demon, it would be useful to learn the scripture which teaches this.

2. What is your scriptural authority that the 'dirty spirit' of homsexuality can only be removed in Jesus' name, instead of a 'healing' in the name of Jesus?

3. Are you singling out homosexuality as a 'dirty spirit' and not e.g. Adultery, promiscuity, sex outside of marraige? Are all the 'abominations' demonic possessions in your veiw or are they abominable 'sin'?

In Jesus
David
 
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Chad: When you think that a woman is beautiful, you are lusting after her? Attraction is not lust. I am talking about homosexuality here, not lying with a man, nor intercourse between two men. How can you be so absolutely sure that it is a choice? I am attracted to guys physically, but I yearn to be with a woman. I would not choose this for myself, for it is confusing, as you may gather. When did I have the choice to feel this way? I'd give it up in less than a heartbeat if it were possible.
 
We are all born into sin and do the works of our father the devil until such time as we make a choice to accept jesus and turn away from our birth father toward our heavenly father. This is our condition since Adam.

"If a man says he has not sinned he is a liar and the truth is not in him."

This choice is clear to all who truly search for it.

It is not a sin to have a momentary thought about another woman or as you have said another man. It becomes sin when we let ourselves dwell upon it and imagine it. When Christ was explaining the commandment concerning adultery he clearly described this sin in the thought process.

One does not have to physically act on the thought for it to become sin to him.
 
I agree DeaconBob, you all may try and vindicate your ways and standard of living, you will receive no vindication from God for your actions.

4Jesus, please read in context what Chad is saying, your actions seem to seek an attempt of agrivating Chad, he does and says what he says by and through the Holy Spirit. Chad lives for Jesus and he does not deserve to be singled out in this conversation.

Read what the Bible verses say and then you guys can comment, don't comment if you haven't read in context.
 
I think we must be very careful when we make catagoric statements that homosexuals have a choice to be or not to be homosexuals.

Clearly anyone has a choice whether or not to participate in the homosexual act.

Many years ago I served as a Police Officer in the UK. At that time homosexual acts between males (female homosexual acts were legal) in private or in public places were a criminal offence. Buggery was a felony tried before the Court of Assize and a prison sentence was inevibitalby passed down. I personally arrested and charged about 50-60 males for this offence - with the exception of 4 (two couples) they were all 'happily' married men.

It seems clear to me (and I find nothing Biblically to instruct me differently) that many males and females are actually born with an attraction for the same sex and as they grow up they never experience opposite sex attraction. Others however, are perfectly normally attracted to the opposite sex but for reasons best known to themselves, will indulge in same sex activity out of sheer lust.

When we, as Christians preach 'the abomination of homosexuality' we need to seek the Wisdom and Love of God. The Bible warns us not to be literalistic. "We should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter." (Romans 7:6) "The letter kills, but the spirit gives life." (2 Corinthians 3:6). What use is it preaching 'homosexuality is abomination' to the unbeliever (unsaved)? They are condemned alread (John 3:18). Once they are saved and receive the Holy Spirit, He will do His work of teaching, convicting of sin and sanctifying - that is the promise of Jesus as they read the word and hear the teaching of the Word.

I know several previously active homosexuals but who, by Gods Grace, are celibate but still have no attraction to the opposite sex. They have heard the Word of God by His Holy Spirit, "My Grace is sufficient for you."

Lets get the saved first - Amen?

In the Love of Jesus
David
 
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Exactly, there seems to be a misconception that homosexuality is acting on something. I do follow Christ. I just have a very hard dtime hearing that I am living some sort of lifestyle (that I am not) and that I will go to hell for it. I try my best with this; I try to keep lustful thoughts out of my mind, I don't act on my thoughts. I wish I could be normal in this respect. Please don't get me wrong here. I am not advocating homosexual activity.
 
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teraside said:
I agree DeaconBob, you all may try and vindicate your ways and standard of living, you will receive no vindication from God for your actions.

4Jesus, please read in context what Chad is saying, your actions seem to seek an attempt of agrivating Chad, he does and says what he says by and through the Holy Spirit. Chad lives for Jesus and he does not deserve to be singled out in this conversation.

Read what the Bible verses say and then you guys can comment, don't comment if you haven't read in context.

Dear Brother,

My regrets. I did not deliberately single Brother Chad. I have simply asked him to quote scripture to support his belief on three specific points.

After all, I think it is quite important for a homosexual to know whether they are committing a sin, possessed of a 'dirty spririt' or even both. Unclean (dirty) spirits are 'cast out' in Jesus' name. Sins are cleansed by the Blood of Jesus.

In Him
David
 
fevoldj2 said:
Exactly, there seems to be a misconception that homosexuality is acting on something. I do follow Christ. I just have a very hard dtime hearing that I am living some sort of lifestyle (that I am not) and that I will go to hell for it. I try my best with this; I try to keep lustful thoughts out of my mind, I don't act on my thoughts. I wish I could be normal in this respect. Please don't get me wrong here. I am not advocating homosexual activity.

Many blessing to you my precious brother.

I understand you but what is more so does Jesus. He came not to condemn you but to love and save.

In Jesus.
 
fevoldj2 said:
If homosexuality was actually something I am "doing," I would stop "doing" it.

Walk close to the Saviour my young brother. Let no one condemn you. Keep praying - be honest and contrite before the Lord. We all have all sinned in thought and in deed. I for one will be praying for you in love.

If you feel it would help please feel free to privately message me.

In the Love of Jesus
David
 
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