How not to talk about assurance of salvation

[Strypes]

I love a song by Mercy Me titled "Flawless".

It is my favorite song currently. If you haven't seen the official video to it, I would highly recommend finding it on youtube.

Some of the lyrics in that song ...

"Could it possibly be that we simply can’t believe that this unconditional kind of love would be enough...
To take a filthy wretch like this and wrap him up in righteousness, but that’s exactly what He did"

"The cross has made you flawless"

"Take a breath smile and say right here right now I’m ok, because the cross was enough"


Thank you Jesus! \O/



So let's talk about that rich young ruler...

Matthew 19, Mark 10, and Luke 18..

He said "Good teacher what must I do to inherit eternal life?"

Then Jesus listed a few of the ten commandments and the young man said ...

"Teacher all of these I have kept from my youth"

Then Jesus tells the guy that he lacks one thing.. and tells him to go and sell all he has and give it to the poor an he would have treasure in heaven then come and "follow me".

After that the young man goes away sad because he had lots of stuff.

The other folks with Jesus were confused especially by Jesus saying it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. And then Jesus said "With man it is impossible, but not with God. For all things are possible with God."

Jesus didn't mention the commandments regarding Idolatry,blasphemy, keeping the Sabbath and worshiping only God when talking to the rich young ruler. You see Jesus knew the young man's heart and knew he had not been "perfect" in keeping the law. Jesus then instructed him to give up the stuff he idolized and to come follow Him.

Here is the point.. It is impossible for any of us to perfectly keep the law. ONLY Jesus did. That is why ONLY Jesus could do what He did on the cross. What was impossible for man (to completely keep the law), God/Jesus did (Jesus is the only one ever to completely and perfectly keep the whole law/ He was completely sinless).

The young man wanted to know what he could do to inherit eternal life.."What he could do"..

Thankfully, Jesus made the impossible Possible!

When we believe in Jesus, we exchange our imperfect/ flawed selves for His righteousness. So in God's eyes/view we are flawless before Him. Knowing that, we have boldness to do all He asks of us. That is why we must keep our helmet of Salvation on at all times to protect our minds. If we think our good needs/works will get us into the kingdom, we are quite mistaken. Jesus is the door. He alone is the narrow gate. Only through faith in Him do we inherit eternal life and receive the Kingdom within our hearts.. And through faith in Him, we know Him. It is through His power and strength we are the righteousness of God. It is God, by The Holy Spirit, that assures us that we are His. It is awesome to know that the cross was enough!

The Parable of the seeds (Matthew 13)
Jesus explains the parable
Only the ones who hear the word of God and UNDERSTAND it grow deep roots and bears fruit. Those that are seeking "fire insurance" don't understand God's desire/provision for relationship. They only want a "get out of hell free" card.

Matthew 7:21-23 is quite sobering..

"Not everyone who says to me 'Lord, Lord' will enter the kingdom of Heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in Heaven. On that day many will say 'Lord Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do mighty works in your name?' Then i will declare to them 'I never knew you; depart from me you workers of lawlessness'"

"Works" are in vain if you don't understand that it is the relationship with God that matters.

It is a good idea to keep all the armor on (Ephesians 6)... Tiz true!

BTW
Strypes<===gave her heart and life to Jesus during an alter call.

 

[B-A-C]

I thought we were talking about eternal life not what happens after you die.

Everyone has eternal life. Even Satan and the beast.
The difference is... where you spend eternity.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

Everyone has eternal life. Even Satan and the beast.
The difference is... where you spend eternity.

Eternity means no beginning and no end,always was and always will be.
If there is no beginning or end to your torment and if your torment always was and always will be then the torment would be your idea of normal because you would not know the difference between torment and pleasure.

John 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
If Jesus came that we might have life then that means we never had life.
Living is not life,living is like surviving until you can't anymore.

Satan and the beast never had life and they go right back where they came from just like Jesus went back where he came from.
John 5:25 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Well didn't we die with him and ascend with him already?
Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
1 John 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

Adam was made a living soul and Jesus is a life giving spirit.
Why are we trying to get into heaven when we are like Jesus,a life giving spirit that came from heaven.

 

[B-A-C]

Eternity means no beginning and no end,always was and always will be.
If there is no beginning or end to your torment and if your torment always was and always will be then the torment would be your idea of normal because you would not know the difference between torment and pleasure.

If this is the case, then none of us can ever have eternal life, because none of us (besides God) always existed.
On the other hand, if eternity can have a beginning, as in forever from now on then the phrase that we can have eternal life is still valid.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

Thanks for responding,

If this is the case, then none of us can ever have eternal life, because none of us (besides God) always existed.
On the other hand, if eternity can have a beginning, as in forever from now on then the phrase that we can have eternal life is still valid.

We are living because God breathed his eternal spirit into dust and it became a living soul.
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
The spirit is eternal but the soul is not,it had a beginning and so must have an end.

If we examine the word soul we find the word used in many ways in both old and new testaments.
Hebrew soul=
nephesh=Strong's 5315= a soul, living being, life, self, person, desire, passion, appetite, emotion
Greek soul= psychē =Strong's 5590= vital breath, breath of life, the human soul, the soul as the seat of affections and will, the self, a human person, an individual.

The soul is self and we are supposed to deny self are we not?
I have died And the life I now live I live through the spirit of christ Jesus in us.
The question is are you a soul or a spirit?

Luke 23:46 Jesus called out with a loud voice, "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit." When he had said this, he breathed his last.
Acts 7:59 While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit."

Let's think this through a minute,we know that "God changes not".
Yet God causes changes like creating a garden.
When we speak a word our voice goes out as a wave through time and space.
Once our word is launched into time and space it will continue with the momentum it was sent unless it encounters interference.
God's word went forth from eternity and is busy describing the Glory of God.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 5:25 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
The word is still with God and is God but went forth from God without causing God to lack the word that he sent forth.
That word will not return to him void but will accomplish all that God sent it to do.

God's son's also known as the son's of God were always with God but we are experiencing the glory of seeing how it happened.
Ecclesiastes 3:15 What is happening now has happened before, and what will happen in the future has happened before, because God makes the same things happen over
and over again.

 

[B-A-C]

The spirit is eternal but the soul is not,it had a beginning and so must have an end.

For me, the spirit and the soul are the same thing. (not to confused with the Holy Spirit).
Also for me.. neither my soul/spirit existed forever but had a creation date. ( 1 Cor 15:42-44; )

In any case.. wouldn't an eternal spirit = eternal life?
Whatever part of us is left over after we are separated from the flesh/body/earthly tent is capable of feeling physical pain and anguish.
Hell isn't forever, but the lake of fire (which hell is eventually cast into) is.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

For me, the spirit and the soul are the same thing. (not to confused with the Holy Spirit).

That's why used Strong's because unless we can agree on the definition of words we will only be exchanging opinions.
Spirit and soul are two different words and calling them the same thing leads to many inconsistencies and contradictions.
I think that's why there are so many conflicts in the way we each see things.
Unless we can agree on the word "eternal" then it's pointless to try to understand each other.

 

[Hekuran]

I in fact gave a very factual and accurate answer, in that: "Jesus said he would never lose whoever God gives him!"
If Jesus has vowed not to lose a born again Christian, that pretty much settles any issue with eternal assurance and there is actually no debate, period!

Well there is a debate. The pages of TalkJesus are full of it!

The part of my opening post that I've not seen a response to is the idea that the once saved always saved debate is a dead end. However anybody makes sense of the various biblical passages on the subject, they are still left with the problem of how and why people leave the faith.

 

[RJ]

Well there is a debate.

When God says he will never leave or forsake you and Jesus says he will never lose you....where is the debate, unless you don't believe either God or Jesus!

they are still left with the problem of how and why people leave the faith.

People leave the faith who have never truly been born again!
If God is, in fact, not in you, it is easy to leave the faith.
What makes you think that everyone who calls themselves a Christian are a Christian....the church is full of them!

 

[Hekuran]

There are pages and pages of discussion about once saved always saved on TalkJesus. All I am trying to say is that it seems to me that ultimately the debate is barren.

 

[RJ]

There are pages and pages of discussion about once saved always saved on TalkJesus. All I am trying to say is that it seems to me that ultimately the debate is barren.

I am confident and at peace with my previous statement and eternal security is true and real for the Born Again Christian! I pray that you have this blessed assurance!
1 John 3: 19-24 By this we shall know that we are of the truth and reassure our heart before him; 20 for whenever our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and he knows everything. 21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before God; 22 and whatever we ask we receive from him, because we keep his commandments and do what pleases him. 23 And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us. 24 Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God,4 and God5 in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us.

 

[Hekuran]

Thanks RJ. Thats a beautiful and powerful passage. I have complete trust in Jesus and confidence before God

 

[RJ]

Thanks RJ. Thats a beautiful and powerful passage. I have complete trust in Jesus and confidence before God

:thumbsup:

 

[TRUTH BE TOLD]

But rj unbelievers cannot have faith.... grace through faith and your a believer..... you also keep saying God will never leave you YET those who fall AWAY FALL AWAY from the HOLY SPIRIT.... fake christians cannot have faith, but your stuck in osas is what keeps you saying unbelievers can have faith...untrue

 

[TRUTH BE TOLD]

Rj said: because we keep hiscommandments and do what pleases him



TRUTH BE TOLD replies: and thats the whole thing right there IF.....IF WE KEEP....

 

[TRUTH BE TOLD]

Eternity means no beginning and no end,always was and always will be.
If there is no beginning or end to your torment and if your torment always was and always will be then the torment would be your idea of normal because you would not know the difference between torment and pleasure.

John 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
If Jesus came that we might have life then that means we never had life.
Living is not life,living is like surviving until you can't anymore.

Satan and the beast never had life and they go right back where they came from just like Jesus went back where he came from.
John 5:25 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Well didn't we die with him and ascend with him already?
Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
1 John 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

Adam was made a living soul and Jesus is a life giving spirit.
Why are we trying to get into heaven when we are like Jesus,a life giving spirit that came from heaven.

Satan goes into the lake of fire Not where he came from..and all people have eternal life.... daniel 12:1-2 says some awaken to eternal life and some to eternal shame...

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

Satan goes into the lake of fire Not where he came from..and all people have eternal life.... daniel 12:1-2 says some awaken to eternal life and some to eternal shame...

Hebrews 12:29 for our "God is a consuming fire."
Have you ever heard the term "on fire for God"?

If you hate God then that fire is not where you want to be.

Hebrews 12:29 "In the greatness of your majesty you threw down those who opposed you. You unleashed your burning anger; it consumed them like stubble.

If God is a fire then we will all burn one way or another.

 

[RJ]

But rj unbelievers cannot have faith

OK, we agree on that!

you also keep saying God will never leave you

I did not say that...I said that he said that! Also, Jesus said he would NEVER lose who God gives him...how do you reconcile that

what keeps you saying unbelievers can have faith.

OK, I disagree with that...please show me where I said that...never said it...don't believe it!