I want opinions.. be gentle.. just read please.

[Ed]

I don't know why, but you're really stretching it, Ed. You list your address as Las Vegas, Nevada. This is the hottest town in a state with legalized prostitution. All those brothels have homosexual males & females available 24/7. In addition there's the homosexual only brothels. You have homosexual female impersonators performing on the strip. You have many of the most active homosexual bars & nightclubs in the nation. These nighclubs often feature homosexual strippers, and rooms full of homosexual patrons. You have homosexual dating ads in the local papers and on local websites, often with pictures.

You list your age as 44. So, you live in Las Vegas, Nevada, often called the 'Sin Capital of the World', and you're 44 years old, and you STILL don't know what a homosexual looks like; is that what we're to believe?

You know JD, I do live in Las Vegas. And yes, I have seen a gay man/men (actually I used to work as a doorman for La Cage, if you know what that is. All the performers there are gay, but when they walk into the casino, you wouldn't know it.)

But walking into into a crowded room, I couldn't tell you who was gay in there or not. The only clue I would have really, is either their voice gave them away, or they were kissing their boyfriends.

I also have a lady friend who is gay, but just looking at her, you wouldn't know it.So no, JD, I wouldn't know a homosexual if I did see one.

 

[Ed]

What something "looks like" can include both appearance and behavior because behavior is known by seeing. The context of my statement is clear enough, your line of questioning is without excuse.

And you obviously missed the point of my question allforihs.


I was making the observation that by simply looking at a man you cannot tell whether he is a homosexual or not. He may or not be, but you couldn't tell just because he is standing there.

 

[allforihs]

And you obviously missed the point of my question allforihs.


I was making the observation that by simply looking at a man you cannot tell whether he is a homosexual or not. He may or not be, but you couldn't tell just because he is standing there.

You are being a troll. I understand the point of your question, to feel self-righteous at my expression of stereotyping. But, your smugness comes at the expense of you playing stupid about the subject of discussion. You know what effeminate behavior is and you know that sometimes homosexuals act in an effeminate manner, to advertise that they are homosexual.

I didn't say or imply that all homosexuals and only homosexuals act effeminately. But, what's a Liberal to do when he's trying to defend the perverse and indefensible? Troll and obfuscate.

 

[JDFree]

I'll freely admit to missing that point entirely, Ed, and reall did wonder what you were up to with that line of questioning or reasoning. I think I still do, because you seemed to be making quite a point of it but the point isn't clear to me yet.

Obviously we cannot tell anything about the heart of a man by looking at outward apperance, except for clothing, jewelry & sometimes tatoos, but they may be from another time & another man. So I don't know what you were trying to add, unless it was a sideways "Judge not, that ye be not judged."?

 

[Ed]

You are being a troll.

A troll that has been around here ever since the site opened, and that has 118 valid posts under his belt, compared to your 48.

I understand the point of your question, to feel self-righteous at my expression of stereotyping.

I'll leave that one alone....

But, your smugness comes at the expense of you playing stupid about the subject of discussion. You know what effeminate behavior is and you know that sometimes homosexuals act in an effeminate manner, to advertise that they are homosexual..

And where does your own smugness come from allforhis? You've been attacking me ever since I ask a valid and simple question...one that you have refused to answer. You know what the definition of stupid really is? Stupid is not being able to answer a simple question. I mean, a wise man would simply say "I don't know!"

I didn't say or imply that all homosexuals and only homosexuals act effeminately.

THANK YOU for Finally answering my question!

But, what's a Liberal to do when he's trying to defend the perverse and indefensible? Troll and obfuscate.

 

[SpiritLedEd]

But surely a Christian would never put himself into the power of any bodily appetite.

I think it would be more fitting to say that a mature Christian should not put himself into the power of a bodily appetite. Drastic moral change is never a quick and easy thing.

The Corinthian church was an infant church, very immature (see 1Cor 3:1-2). They had grown up in a culture wherein promescuity was morally and legally permitted - it was allowed by the law and had been widely practiced for a century or more. Christianity presented a huge culture challenge. These people had to be fed God's Word gradually and no doubt many of them kept up the old behaviors and beliefs for awhile until they became mature enough to digest the "meat" of the Word.

SLE

 

[Ed]

So I don't know what you were trying to add, unless it was a sideways "Judge not, that ye be not judged."?

BINGO! And how long did it take for you to figure that one out?!

 

[JDFree]

BINGO! And how long did it take for you to figure that one out?!

Actually, Ed, I figured it out sometime back in the way that your posts were going. I was trying to be polite and not suggest that you were going to stoop so low as to trot out one of the #1 verses used by the homosexual community to justify their own behaviors, or stop Christians from telling them that homosexuality is an obscene, disgusting and sinful lifestyle, according to God himself.

I mentioned it elsewhere, but I'll run it by you again: A text taken or quoted out of context is a pretext. That phrase, used in the way you seem to have intended, is a pretext leading to sins, peversions and even denial of heavenly reward. So while you're adding platitudes, try this one, "For we know Him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge His people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." Hebrews 10:30-31

That applies directly to men who lead others into sin, in any way.

 

[JDFree]

I think I errred, SpirLedEd, should have said:

But ideally a Christian would never put himself into the power of any bodily appetite.

In my own mind I wasn't thinking of a baby Christian, but they shouldn't either hah!

 

[Ed]

Actually, Ed, I figured it out sometime back in the way that your posts were going. I was trying to be polite and not suggest that you were going to stoop so low as to trot out one of the #1 verses used by the homosexual community to justify their own behaviors, or stop Christians from telling them that homosexuality is an obscene, disgusting and sinful lifestyle, according to God himself.

I mentioned it elsewhere, but I'll run it by you again: A text taken or quoted out of context is a pretext. That phrase, used in the way you seem to have intended, is a pretext leading to sins, peversions and even denial of heavenly reward. So while you're adding platitudes, try this one, "For we know Him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge His people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." Hebrews 10:30-31

That applies directly to men who lead others into sin, in any way.

Thanks for clearing that up, and you are absolutely correct JD.

 

[Hona]

Anthropic principle

Greetings brother in Christ. It seems to me that we begin in the same place in our thinking regarding the Lord. There are two certainties in this life, sin and its consequence death. Most people know this or at least should, but the real question relates to the nature of life, its origins and its purpose. If we don't deal with this first important question, it follows that everything else will be a conflict of some sorts. The only explanation for a thinking expressing deity or a being like ourselves known to humanity is contained in the first verse of Genesis with the use of the Hebrew term "Elohim" for God. It is only applied in the plural tension to indicate to us the presence of three distinct equal beings whose mutual reciprocal actions between themselves represents a unity in 'thought' and 'will'. If any systems doesn't begin with a thinking expressing concept like the one in Genesis 1:1 it can't begin unless it begins as if Christianity is true. When we say God is love, we are merely identifying the nature of the relationship between the members of the Trinity; a unity of 'thought' and 'will'.

When we try to come to an understanding of the nature of love as it effects us, we must run it through the Christian concept of Genesis 1:1 to see where it fits or doesn't fit. When a man leaves his father and mother and cleaves to his wife, the two become 'one flesh' according to Genesis. What this means, is that the masculine aspect of the male and the feminine aspect of the female are united as one so that the fullness of God is seen in the external world, first by their children, then others that see them also. God is not male or female because these terms relate to things created or made and not things eternal. However God places the man and the woman into the sphere of His thinking influence like a three cord tie. Because God makes us thinking expressing beings like Himself, He also creates a field of thinking influence mostly contained in the Bible.

My wife and son have bipolar disorder which is like a living daily hell for them, yet they live. We have understood the importance of a thinking history because bipolar people only have photo's minus the experience and a thinking historical account bouncing out from the Bible is their only means of relief.

Feelings and experiences are not what we base our Christian life upon but rather we mus base it upon a deep understanding of the nature of the one being felt or the one being experienced. When my friends tell me about dramatic experiences that they have had, most times they are unable to explain to me, who was being felt or who was being experienced. Carl Jaspers the existentialist thinker believed in this type of world. As a Christian with 12 children, it is imperative that our children be able to explain the set of beliefs their faith is based upon if they themselves expect change in their lives or the lives of those around them.

I will say this, your thoughts and feelings are valid before the God who makes moral motions plausible and acceptable. Gay marriage is also a valid idea but having said that we must differentiate between the gay marriage and the non gay marriage. Firstly the people involved are different and second, the results of the two different marriage unions would also differ. What we have here is the Christian or moralist who argues from his Christian ideology and the gay person who argues from linguistic analysis ideology and the two can never communicate. Linguistics wins a temporary battle until the Christian relativises the linguistics tablet which is very fragile. My point here is, it seems both the Christian and the non Christian have not understood their own ideas about reality because neither begins in Genesis 1:1, but rather they begin with their ideas and bring them to the moral concept, whatever that is.

For the Christian, there are no questions, rather there are only answers for the Christian to apprehend in his or her thinking as opposed to feeling or experience.

God Bless and Strengthen you my brother in arms!

Hona:shade:

 

[Montovine]

God made this world perfect, sin has corrupted all that was good. I acted on my desires, heterosexuals desires. When I was younger, I thought it was the only way to get a man to truly love me. 3 marriages, four abortions, and two beautiful children messed up because I chose sin over Gods perfect way. Its hard to forgive myself of this, its hard not to feel the pain that sin has caused. Sin is a corrupter of all that is good. Your homosexuality is only apart of a corrupted world, I can say to you only this, sin is a cancer, when you give into it, it destroys. Gods ways are perfect, anything apart from Him is destruction.

 

[sunshineaaks]

God made this world perfect, sin has corrupted all that was good. I acted on my desires, heterosexuals desires. When I was younger, I thought it was the only way to get a man to truly love me. 3 marriages, four abortions, and two beautiful children messed up because I chose sin over Gods perfect way. Its hard to forgive myself of this, its hard not to feel the pain that sin has caused. Sin is a corrupter of all that is good. Your homosexuality is only apart of a corrupted world, I can say to you only this, sin is a cancer, when you give into it, it destroys. Gods ways are perfect, anything apart from Him is destruction.

My heart goes out to you, but I also praise God that you have much to teach others and a compassion to understand what others may believe no one on earth could possibly understand.

It is definitely hard to feel the pain that sin has caused, but in seeing all that God has forgiven and praising Him for this will end the fallacy that society has ingrained in our minds with 'forgiving myself'.

Satan has one of the strongest tools to keep a believer down and that is the misconception of a 'need' to 'forgive myself' for sins that I have already taken to God in repentance, remorse, sorrow and deep despair begging His forgiveness. Knowing His forgiveness is true, the burden is lifted and we are free. And yet, our guilt is back to haunt. Satan will keep us down with one reminder after another.

One of the quickest ways to rid myself of the 'forgive myself' idiom is to praise God each and every time the guilt of my sin is brought to mind. ("Yes, I did that, I am guilty, and I'm so grateful that You have forgiven my sin, Dear Lord and taught me your ways instead") Not only does the praise make me know that God's forgiveness is all I need, but also dismisses 'forgive myself' . My forgiveness of myself is nothing but in believing that I can't forgive myself after God already has, I place more power on myself than I do on God, which is Satan's intent; to undermine God in any way he can.

One thing that Satan hates more than anything is the Christian praising God for anything and that includes praising Him for the forgiveness of sin that Satan aimed to use in bring us down. With the praise comes less and less that an offence being brought to mind but you can be sure Satan will work other angles since praise has foiled his plans. The lessons learned from our short comings, repentance and forgiveness can't be forgotten as the purpose and path become quite clear.

 

[OneVoice7]

The results of choices

I agree with you the problem for all humanty is just that, our mind and spirit are so connected one is trying to dominate the other and comes down to choosing (for the person to make ) of which you hope to make the right one . In my own life I deal with satan daily (he will never stop trying to trick you ) the way to win for yourself is ,fill your mind with the words jesus spoke remember his words only because there is power in his words and when you flood your mind with The Lords very words its like poison to the Devil and he goes away . Life means :Living In Full Engagement in other words you do have the power and use it ! Remember Jesus said : its not what goes in that condemns but what comes out ,so even if pain goes in let Love come out -thats the secret .

 

[Montovine]

Thank you so much for your reply, it means the world to me. Though I believe in Gods forgiveness, which took many many years for me, I am very apprehensive sharing this with Christians. I am more ashamed of sharing my life with them than I am a non believer.

However, my newness to this forum, I think I posted to the wrong place. There was a poster struggling with homosexual thought, that I was writing to or at least I thought I was. :embarasse

Bless you both

 

[SpiritLedEd]

Its hard to forgive myself of this, its hard not to feel the pain that sin has caused.

I'm a 74 year old man whose alcoholic behavior did much to mess up my 40 yr old daughter's life to the point that she refuses all contact with me.

I feel the pain of that situation most every day. But, I've found an effective antidote: daily prayer, meditation, and Scripture reading time PLUS worshipping God through Gospel music videos on YouTube. These things get my attention off of myself and onto Him.

Spirit Led Ed (SLE)

 

[JDFree]

Greetings brother in Christ. It seems to me that we begin in the same place in our thinking regarding the Lord. There are two certainties in this life, sin and its consequence death. Most people know this or at least should, but the real question relates to the nature of life, its origins and its purpose. If we don't deal with this first important question, it follows that everything else will be a conflict of some sorts. The only explanation for a thinking expressing deity or a being like ourselves known to humanity is contained in the first verse of Genesis with the use of the Hebrew term "Elohim" for God. It is only applied in the plural tension to indicate to us the presence of three distinct equal beings whose mutual reciprocal actions between themselves represents a unity in 'thought' and 'will'. If any systems doesn't begin with a thinking expressing concept like the one in Genesis 1:1 it can't begin unless it begins as if Christianity is true. When we say God is love, we are merely identifying the nature of the relationship between the members of the Trinity; a unity of 'thought' and 'will'.

When we try to come to an understanding of the nature of love as it effects us, we must run it through the Christian concept of Genesis 1:1 to see where it fits or doesn't fit. When a man leaves his father and mother and cleaves to his wife, the two become 'one flesh' according to Genesis. What this means, is that the masculine aspect of the male and the feminine aspect of the female are united as one so that the fullness of God is seen in the external world, first by their children, then others that see them also. God is not male or female because these terms relate to things created or made and not things eternal. However God places the man and the woman into the sphere of His thinking influence like a three cord tie. Because God makes us thinking expressing beings like Himself, He also creates a field of thinking influence mostly contained in the Bible.

I will say this, your thoughts and feelings are valid before the God who makes moral motions plausible and acceptable. Gay marriage is also a valid idea but having said that we must differentiate between the gay marriage and the non gay marriage. Firstly the people involved are different and second, the results of the two different marriage unions would also differ. What we have here is the Christian or moralist who argues from his Christian ideology and the gay person who argues from linguistic analysis ideology and the two can never communicate. Linguistics wins a temporary battle until the Christian relativises the linguistics tablet which is very fragile. My point here is, it seems both the Christian and the non Christian have not understood their own ideas about reality because neither begins in Genesis 1:1, but rather they begin with their ideas and bring them to the moral concept, whatever that is.
For the Christian, there are no questions, rather there are only answers for the Christian to apprehend in his or her thinking as opposed to feeling or experience.
God Bless and Strengthen you my brother in arms!
Hona:shade:

Not sure where you found your 'Christian' beliefs but it wasn't in the pages of Scripture. I see errors in thought, appearing more as speculation in things of Theosophy from the existentialist bent than any Christian Truth.

There are two certainties in this life, sin and its consequence death.
In Christ Jesus we have a third known certainty, and that is never dying and having life eternal in Christ.

mutual reciprocal actions between themselves represents a unity in 'thought' and 'will'.
The other is to see three distinct Beings together within a single Entity of God, rather than a sort of corporate agreement between Beings of God.

God is not male or female because these terms relate to things created or made and not things eternal
You mention that God is neither male nor female, which is antithetical to the thought expressed in all commonly known Christian doctrines & beliefs, and in all the pages of Scripture. If we accept Holy Scripture as the basis for our reality in Jesus Christ, and as being itself the Firm Foundation we have, that the Word is the Logos, and as said by John in the first few verses of his Gospel, "...and the Word was God..." then for a surety, Jesus the MAN is God. Additionally, every single reference in the entire Scripture that bears an indication of the gender of God, whether of Father, Son or Spirit, invariably refers to He, Him, His, Father, Son etc. that there's no doubt whatsoever that God is indeed male. In that, we as the Bride of Christ, and being married into one flesh, further identifies the gender of God and Jesus. Or maybe you read a Bible that says Mother God and the Daughter of man?

Gay marriage is also a valid idea but having said that we must differentiate between the gay marriage and the non gay marriage.
Homosexual marriage is not at all valid within Christian thought, not in any way. The apostle Paul is most surely a Christian, possibly the greatest Christian thinker of all time, seen if one reads Hebrews in depth and detail. 1Corinthians 6:9 tells us plainly, "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolators, nor adulterers, nor effiminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thives, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners shall inherit the Kingdom of God." the "Know ye not...?" inplies, "What, you say you're Christians and you don't know THIS?!"

We find again in Galatians 6:19-21, "...Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envying, murders, drunkeness, revellings, and such I tell before, as I have also told in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the Kingdom of God." The key points are "...emulations..." and "...variance..." which refer directly to a male pretending to be a female & vice versa. What does a marriage ceremnoy say? "I now pronounce you, ummm, uh, urrr, let's see here...?" No, it's "I now pronounce you MAN and WIFE!"

your thoughts and feelings are valid before the God
If you are referring to homosexual thoughts and feelings being 'valid' before God, then you have a different God from the One who wrote Scripture.

What we have here is the Christian or moralist who argues from his Christian ideology and the gay person who argues from linguistic analysis ideology and the two can never communicate.
This is an all too common fallacy, that there may be no meaningful conversation between the Christian world and the secular world, and this is most especially true in regard to Homosexuality, which I shall demonstrate here.

So, Homosexuality is 'Normal' huh? Okay, if it's 'normal', then why is the entire animal kingdom and all races of man throughout the entire history of man heterosexual? [Secular or Christian question]


That not only positively known to be true: but with that HETEROsexuality having been and currently being the one, only and single agent of physical act which may cause procreation of species, rather than extinction of species, HOW is Homosexuality or Homosexual Marriage NORMAL and acceptable? [Secular or Christian question]

And if the thought of a Homosexual world or marriage is 'normal', then how come it is 100% contrary to all that is known as 'normal' in the physical world? [Secular or Christian question]

Fully separate and even contrary to any Christian belief or viewpoint of any kind: how is it 'Normal' if it is also entirely & completely antithetical, contrary, and the diametrical opposite of that proposed by the 'Theory of Evolution' as well? We are either Created, or we are Evolved: and in any case of the true fact, as to which is indeed true of Created or Evolved, including Theistic Evolution Theory: Homosexuality is against all Laws regarding Procreation of Species, so how may it ever be viewed as 'normal' or 'acceptable'? [Secular or Christian question]

Should we not instead maintain the true, actual, factual, provable and repeatable proofs and visible, knowable Scientific, physical, historical and archaeological evidences of genuinely NORMAL view, seen and proven as the 'NORMAL' condition throughout the history of the world in every animal species and throughout the human races that indeed, without doubt or equivocation or exception: Homosexual behavior and acts are entirely, completely and unquestionably ABNORMAL IN EVERY WAY WITHOUT EXCEPTION?! [Secular or Christian question]

What thing, or fact, or proof, or evidence from anywhere within the history of the human race or animal species shows that it should ever be accepted as 'Normal' if all other scientific facts, proofs, evidences, historical societal viewpoints and higher morals of all cultures demonstrate that, without doubt, it is fully ABNORMAL in every single way?? [Secular or Christian question]

I have other physial biological proof of the abnormality of Homosexuality but it is too graphic for this forum.


I suggest you actually read and study Scripture before making posts here that could cause another to suffer damnation in hell forever. Also the penalty for leading a person into sin is far greater than that of the one who was decitfully led!

 

[sunshineaaks]

I agree with you the problem for all humanty is just that, our mind and spirit are so connected one is trying to dominate the other and comes down to choosing (for the person to make ) of which you hope to make the right one . In my own life I deal with satan daily (he will never stop trying to trick you ) the way to win for yourself is ,fill your mind with the words jesus spoke remember his words only because there is power in his words and when you flood your mind with The Lords very words its like poison to the Devil and he goes away . Life means :Living In Full Engagement in other words you do have the power and use it ! Remember Jesus said : its not what goes in that condemns but what comes out ,so even if pain goes in let Love come out -thats the secret .

Very well said thank you!

 

[sunshineaaks]

Thank you so much for your reply, it means the world to me. Though I believe in Gods forgiveness, which took many many years for me, I am very apprehensive sharing this with Christians. I am more ashamed of sharing my life with them than I am a non believer.

However, my newness to this forum, I think I posted to the wrong place. There was a poster struggling with homosexual thought, that I was writing to or at least I thought I was. :embarasse

Bless you both

I totally understand the apprehension in sharing your story with Christians. I'm sure we have all met the 'perfect' christian willing to condemn anyone in their path or the one who rejects you because your life was less than perfect, but in remembering Jesus talked with many like this many years ago; we should pity them rather than fear them.

These are Christian in name only and should be pitied for the fact that Jesus will say "Depart from me, I NEVER knew you".

I also understand the ease in talking with the unbeliever, these (I believe) are the ones more important. These are the ones His purpose and plan include with all that He has gotten you through in your life.

There are the true believers who will walk with you through any distress you might have and they will not condemn you for your past but will praise God with you for all that Christ has formed and molded you with in your walk with Him.

Eh, don't worry about posting in the wrong area. I've gotten to where I don't much believe in accidents or chance or fate any more...... and I'm sure I've made my share of mistakes along the way in one forum or another...... lol. I just hope I've helped you in one way or another through what appears to me to be a struggle at times.

 

[OneVoice7]

your welcome too as far as the question of gay or not be well it really seems to me that the answer is all around, what should be to continue the race of humans is what God has intended 2 become one, I agree is what is meant to be but there is a point where this can cause real delema . The natural world does speak quite loudly about what is ordained by their creator and ours what is acceptable to his judgement not ours there must be order for creation sake . This is a fallen world and sin is the cancer it and affects all of this creation but I will say this :IF ANY HUMAN BEING LOVES GOD THE WAY HE ASKS US TOO THEN THERE IS NOTHING TO FEAR FOR HE SO LOVED US THAT, YES HE DID GIVE AWAY HIS LIFE TO KNOW OURS . Jesus lived as the example to us on how to live in this crazy world just let him drive give him the keys and relax . If he went knowing and willingly to that cross without so much as condemnation to those who were doing that to him (father forgive for know not what they do ) how much love for humanity would it take to do that? answer:Eternal love, the last command was too what? Love one another so I will say I Love you and take care: onevoice7