If we exhale spirit of anger, hatred, and opposition

[this human]

In this world, as is seen here, a human will casually glance at a writing and immediately breathe spirit of opposition without consideration of the matter that is addressed nor the influence/spirit from which the spirit breathed arises/originates.

 

[KingJ]

what you quoted was before the fall I think, because then we have scripture saying

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Dave, don't read that passage with Calvinistic glasses on, please.

The context is He allows for free will. He put the devil (who sinned of his own free will) on earth. He put lions with big teeth (who were to use them from Adam's sin) on earth. He created evil in the sense that He created space, time and all we have to allow for an environment of free will.

To read that line and the few others Calvinists love quoting as God being behind evil, does a ''GROSS'' injustice to discerning and representing God.

A Christian should never post such a verse in isolation!

 

[KingJ]

Greetings brothers @Dave M @Bendito @Brad Huber

This snippet of a commentary by the late Albert Barnes might interest you. (19th century theologian)

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Isaiah 45:7

I form the light, and create darkness - Light, in the Bible, is the emblem of knowledge, innocence, pure religion, and of prosperity in general; and darkness is the emblem of the opposite. Light here seems to be the emblem of peace and prosperity, and darkness the emblem of adversity; and the sentiment of the verse is, that all things prosperous and adverse are under the providential control and direction of God. Of light, it is literally true that God made it; and emblematically true that he is the source of knowledge, prosperity, happiness, and pure religion. Of darkness, it is literally true also that the night is formed by him; that he withdraws the light of the sun, and leaves the earth enveloped in gloomy shades. It is emblematically true also that calamity, ignorance, disappointment, and want of success are ordered by him; and not less true that all the moral darkness, or evil, that prevails on earth, is under the direction and ordering of his Providence. There is no reason to think, however, that the words 'darkness' and 'evil' are to be understood as referring to moral darkness; that is, sin.

That was a good find Fragrance. Thanks for sharing!

 

[KingJ]

The Bible attributes the origin of human evil to people exercising their free will; when they choose to disobey God’s standards, it brings suffering.

God said “You can eat the fruit of every other tree, but if you eat from this one, you will surely die” (Gen. 2:16-17). The Bible says “the wages of sin is death” (Romans 6:23). We are free to choose, but there will be severe consequences if we choose to disobey. The first man and woman chose that path, and when they did evil, death and suffering kicked in.

Scripture does not distance God from disasters and secondary evils the way his children often do. God makes an unapologetic statement about himself: “I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things” (Isaiah 45:7).

As we see in Jeremiah 11:17 and 32:23, so in Isaiah 45 God brings ra,disastrous consequences, to deal with people’s ra, moral evil. God righteously brings terrible judgment upon human evil.


full article here

Did God create evil? - Eternal Perspective Ministries

The Bible attributes the origin of human evil to people exercising their free will; when they choose to disobey God’s standards... answer from Randy Alcorn

www.epm.org

You said ''God creates evil'' in your first post here. Now you are saying 'darkness'. Darkness we can work with. Evil always implies moral evil inline with Gen 3:22.

Darkness is explained in Bendito's post # 8. God removes Himself / the light from the wicked, leaving them with their sin. In John 3:19 Jesus is referenced to light and wickedness / evil to loving darkness.

 

[KingJ]

We will inhale it from those with whom we interact. If we inhale God/Jesus' spirit of peace, love, and fellowship from the Bible, we will walk in it's exhalation among humanity and have it returned that we might breathe and live. John 20:22

I get what you are trying to say. You are making a good point. I think people missed it by reading into your words.

 

[Sue D.]

Dave, don't read that passage with Calvinistic glasses on, please.

The context is He allows for free will. He put the devil (who sinned of his own free will) on earth. He put lions with big teeth (who were to use them from Adam's sin) on earth. He created evil in the sense that He created space, time and all we have to allow for an environment of free will.

To read that line and the few others Calvinists love quoting as God being behind evil, does a ''GROSS'' injustice to discerning and representing God.

A Christian should never post such a verse in isolation!

KingJ -- and Why do you keep including Calvinism into your posts?

 

[KingJ]

KingJ -- and Why do you keep including Calvinism into your posts?

The bible tells us to identify and expose heresy. If you kept on posting atheistic posts, would you ask me this same question?

Calvinism is worse in that it flies under a Christian flag. Making it false teaching. Heresy. Something that needs to be exposed every time it is spotted.

 

[Sue D.]

KingJ -- Mr Calvin and Mr. Armenius were two men who took a strong stand on certain parts of Scripture. Mr. Calvin especially, probably. His 5-points of Calvinism -- they are His points and he's acquired quite a following in the world of believers. He's but a mere human -- kind of like Dr. Scoffield's notes on the bottom pages of some Bibles. I grew up with KJV with Scoffields' note. I did Not grow up with "Calvin's notes"

Mr. Calvin is not teaching heresy , he Did have some very strong points of view. There are some Bible colleges and Seminaries that are strong Calvinist in their teachings. My husband wanted to get into the Air Force Chaplaincy Many decades ago. He was advised to go to a particular seminary after going to FBBC in Ankeny, Iowa. Which he did. He didn't know that much of Calvinsim but he discovered he was Not a 5-point Calvinist - about a 4 point person,. As it turned out -- in Spite of his schooling he Still couldn't get in because there were only so many chaplaincy slots available -- since Then, that has changed.

But I really think you're going off a bit too strong relating to Calvinism. Heresy is teaching something other than the sufficiency of the cross of Christ / teaching that Jesus Christ was merely another human being of that day in time who was a really good teacher and had a lot of followers. And that eventually He would die and his followers would go to some Other religious teaching. Now the Truth, course, is that Jesus Christ was / Is the Son of God / He is our Risen Savior. And that the cross of Christ/ His Blood Is Totally sufficient to take care of All of our sins.

Part of Calvinism is absolutely true -- there Are the elect -- God Alone knows who His elect are. God does Not give us that information. We Are told to share the Gospel unto salvation with All who are willing to listen. God Knows the entire picture of Everything. He alone knows exactly when a person will accept His way of salvation -- 'we' are living day by day. 'we' plan our future with the knowledge that God is quite capable of Changing 'our' plans to comply with His plans.

There Is Scripture that supports predestination and other aspects of Calvinism and Mr. Armenian simply countered Those passages with Scripture that support what His stand had been. And those particular stands have picked up quite a following. And there are Lots of people who choose to Not identify with Either of them. So - Please -- just because I happen to believe some of those same things, Don't do your labeling of me.

And -- consider This -- how about those who are KJV onlyists and those who are NAS onlyists. Two extremes -- and there are those who will 'go to their graves' upholding KJV as being Superior and the same with the NAS. I grew up with KJV and have gone to the older NIV and somewhat the ESV and now mainly with NKJV. Does that suggest that I'm an 'unstable' believer? I should hope Not. It's All God's Word.

So -- the same thing with Mr. Calvin and Mr. Armenian. Two mere human beings who've voiced Their interpretations of numerous Scriptures.

You come across as being fairly educated about Calvinism -- good for you. There Are some labels I have no problem with. I Am a Pre-tribulation rapture person. I Also believe that Scripture teaches that Anyone who comes to God through Jesus Christ Will immediately become a son/ daughter of God. They Will be Eternally secure In Christ.

And I do Not believe in the Gap theory -- there was No huge gap in time between Genesis 1;1 and vs 2. That's where some Christian sci-fi people have a lot of fun. All kinds of speculations taking place. Sidetracking from ..............

 

[this human]

Speculation of speculations. It means nothing what we mere humans "believe" or think. What's most important is God/Jesus and what He is about. All of us mere humans are just physically dying "As the World Turns"(lol) or the clock ticks.

 

[Sue D.]

@ 'this human' -- of Course it Does matter what 'we' believe and think. And, yes, we All Will die at some point. And then there Is eternity waiting for each of us.

Our eternal life -- for ever and ever life -- depends on our personal salvation. And that depends on our accepting Jesus Christ as our personal Lord and Savior. And that is based on what we do or do Not believe. And That is No laughing matter.

Everyone has head knowledge of lots of stuff -- we have been learning since we've been physically born. Our brains are continually gaining knowledge. Some of it is negative and some positive. It's part of being alive and being a human being.

It's what we believe in our Heart that makes the difference between spending eternity in either a lake of fire and brimstone OR in being with God in the New Jerusalem / heaven/ for all eternity.

and 'now' while we are still alive in this physical body is when we make that decision.

And only God does know how long this present life will last.

 

[KingJ]

KingJ -- Mr Calvin and Mr. Armenius were two men who took a strong stand on certain parts of Scripture. Mr. Calvin especially, probably. His 5-points of Calvinism -- they are His points and he's acquired quite a following in the world of believers. He's but a mere human -- kind of like Dr. Scoffield's notes on the bottom pages of some Bibles. I grew up with KJV with Scoffields' note. I did Not grow up with "Calvin's notes"

Mr. Calvin is not teaching heresy , he Did have some very strong points of view. There are some Bible colleges and Seminaries that are strong Calvinist in their teachings. My husband wanted to get into the Air Force Chaplaincy Many decades ago. He was advised to go to a particular seminary after going to FBBC in Ankeny, Iowa. Which he did. He didn't know that much of Calvinsim but he discovered he was Not a 5-point Calvinist - about a 4 point person,. As it turned out -- in Spite of his schooling he Still couldn't get in because there were only so many chaplaincy slots available -- since Then, that has changed.

But I really think you're going off a bit too strong relating to Calvinism. Heresy is teaching something other than the sufficiency of the cross of Christ / teaching that Jesus Christ was merely another human being of that day in time who was a really good teacher and had a lot of followers. And that eventually He would die and his followers would go to some Other religious teaching. Now the Truth, course, is that Jesus Christ was / Is the Son of God / He is our Risen Savior. And that the cross of Christ/ His Blood Is Totally sufficient to take care of All of our sins.

Part of Calvinism is absolutely true -- there Are the elect -- God Alone knows who His elect are. God does Not give us that information. We Are told to share the Gospel unto salvation with All who are willing to listen. God Knows the entire picture of Everything. He alone knows exactly when a person will accept His way of salvation -- 'we' are living day by day. 'we' plan our future with the knowledge that God is quite capable of Changing 'our' plans to comply with His plans.

There Is Scripture that supports predestination and other aspects of Calvinism and Mr. Armenian simply countered Those passages with Scripture that support what His stand had been. And those particular stands have picked up quite a following. And there are Lots of people who choose to Not identify with Either of them. So - Please -- just because I happen to believe some of those same things, Don't do your labeling of me.

And -- consider This -- how about those who are KJV onlyists and those who are NAS onlyists. Two extremes -- and there are those who will 'go to their graves' upholding KJV as being Superior and the same with the NAS. I grew up with KJV and have gone to the older NIV and somewhat the ESV and now mainly with NKJV. Does that suggest that I'm an 'unstable' believer? I should hope Not. It's All God's Word.

So -- the same thing with Mr. Calvin and Mr. Armenian. Two mere human beings who've voiced Their interpretations of numerous Scriptures.

You come across as being fairly educated about Calvinism -- good for you. There Are some labels I have no problem with. I Am a Pre-tribulation rapture person. I Also believe that Scripture teaches that Anyone who comes to God through Jesus Christ Will immediately become a son/ daughter of God. They Will be Eternally secure In Christ.

And I do Not believe in the Gap theory -- there was No huge gap in time between Genesis 1;1 and vs 2. That's where some Christian sci-fi people have a lot of fun. All kinds of speculations taking place. Sidetracking from ..............

Sue, thanks for sharing your personal story.

I feel your discernment on this topic is bad. It is not 'this guys view' verse 'that guys view''. It is not '''labels'''.

Jacob Arminius was a student of Calvinism. He saw Calvinism / Calvinists portraying God as a tyrant and executioner. He made a stand against this nonsense. It is only because of Calvinism that we have Arminianism.

It does not matter if someone identifies as a 1, 2, 3 ,4 or 5pt Calvinist. Every 'TULIP' can be interpreted falsely.

If someone makes a false statement that portrays God falsely, it is the work of the devil.

A Christian has '''one''' job. Properly represent God to the unsaved.

 

[Sue D.]

KingJ -- I just looked it up. Jacob Arminius was Not a student of Calvinism. He Did see problems With Calvinism and drew up his own 5-points of Arminiunism in rebuttal.

This sparked a debate back in That country that has existed to this day.

It was in the Dutch Reformed church if I'm remembering correctly from just a few minutes ago.

All a person has to do is Google it.

How about This -- a person needs to present God's plan for their personal salvation. It's Not properly presenting God to the unsaved. There is only one way to salvation -- made possible by God through Jesus Christ.

 

[KingJ]

Jacob Arminius was Not a student of Calvinism.

He was a student of Theodore Beza (Calvin's successor).

How about This -- a person needs to present God's plan for their personal salvation. It's Not properly presenting God to the unsaved.

We are here to reach the lost with the truth of God. A Christian has one job. Your personal salvation is already dealt with, that is why you are a Christian God is using to reach the lost.

 

[Sue D.]

The truth of God is that He is indeed God , Almighty -- and He's provided all of mankind with His gift of salvation. We Do need to acknowledge our personal Need of it. The Holy Spirit is the part of the trinity that convicts a person of their sinfulness and that they Do need salvation. And That has been provided by Jesus Christ through His death, burial and bodily resurrection. His blood takes away / covers our sins. When a person accepts Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior -- they thank Him for being their Savior. The Holy Spirit immediately comes to indwell that person and God sees that person as justified / just as if he'd never sinned.

As a believer we Are to grow in the grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. And we are Also -- as much as possible -- to publically identify ourselves through believer's baptism - as having already believed on a personal level that Jesus Christ died on the cross and rose again bodily for 'us' personally.

And That process is necessary for every single person who Does accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.

Because every single person is born with a sinful nature. We are born with the desire For sin. All we All deserve to spend eternity in hell. that's what Romans tells us. 'the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ the Lord.'

And John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that who so ever believeth on Him will not perish but have everlasting life.

And it's Very important to understand exactly what we're reaching the lost with. The Gospel unto salvation. And as the individual person Does accept Christ as His personal Savior -- the Holy Spirit Does give the person a desire To read His Word as well as a new understanding of it. The Holy Spirit's indwelling Does make a difference in a person's life. By their fruits they will be known.