If you do not have the gifts of the Holy Spirit, then get baptized

[Bill]

Many people who go to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit will find that they do not have the gifts as if they were never baptized. The reason for this is that their heart was not in the right place when they were baptized in the Holy Spirit.

You must be humble of heart to receive the baptism of the holy spirit in its fullness. If your heart is hardened and unforgiving even though you are receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit it will not stay with you it will be like grain falling onto Stone just bouncing off

This is what you must do because the future is coming and it is coming quickly. The first thing is to repent of your sins. You must open your hearts to the love of God, and give to God all of the sin all of the darkness that has collected there. All the prejudice against other religions against other people, against your brothers and sisters Catholics or Christians.

This must be done.

Then go and receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit will fill you with God's love. The gifts of the Holy Spirit are abundant. The only limit to the gifts of the Holy Spirit is your own imagination. The list that is shown in the scripture is just the beginning.

The greatest gift of the Holy Spirit is love.

The second greatest gift of the Holy Spirit is the gift of discernment. You must learn to use it exercise it Build It Up let it be a part of you of your everyday life. If you go forward without it or go forward without the gifts of the Holy Spirit you will be lost.

When the future comes, and all heck is breaking loose. And the devil will be there trying to deceive you left and right. What will save you is the gift of discernment to recognize the devil and to know God's peace in your heart

I am pleading with you, please learn please grow and be baptized in the Holy Spirit do not be afraid because Jesus himself asks this of us.

Learn to use the gift of discernment

 

[Waggles]

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Amen, Amen, I say unto thee, Except one be born of water and Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 What is born of the flesh is flesh; and what is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said to thee, Ye must be born from above.
8 The Spirit breatheth where he willeth, and thou hearest his voice, but knowest not whence he cometh, and whither he goeth: so is everyone born of the Spirit.

Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Spirit fell on all that heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision that believed were amazed, who came with Peter, because that on the nations also was poured out the gift of the Holy Spirit.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can anyone forbid the water, that these should not be baptized, who have received the Holy Spirit as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then asked they him to tarry certain days.

Acts 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper regions came to Ephesus, and found certain disciples:
2 and he said unto them, Whether ye received the Holy Spirit when ye believed? And they said unto him, Nay, we did not so much as hear whether there is a Holy Spirit.
3 And he said, Into what then were ye baptized? And they said, Into the baptism of John.
4 And Paul said, John baptized a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe unto him that should come after him, that is, unto Jesus.
5 And when they heard this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them; and they spoke with tongues, and prophesied.
7 And they were in all about twelve men.

 

[Waggles]

Spiritual Gifts
1Corinthians 12:1 Now concerning the spirituals, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
2 Ye know that as nations ye were led away unto those dumb idols, howsoever ye might be led.
3 Wherefore I make known to you, that no one speaking by God’s Spirit saith, Jesus is anathema; and no one can say, Jesus is Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.
4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5 And there are diversities of ministrations, and the same Lord.
6 And there are diversities of workings, but the same God, who worketh all the things in all.
7 But to each is given the manifestation of the Spirit to profit.
8 For to one is given through the Spirit a word of wisdom; and to another a word of knowledge, according to the same Spirit:
9 to another faith, in the same Spirit; and to another gifts of healings, in the one Spirit;
10 and to another workings of powers; and to another prophecy; and to another discernings of spirits: to another kinds of tongues; and to another interpretation of tongues;
11 but all these worketh the one and the same Spirit, dividing to each severally even as he willeth.

 

[Bill]

Spiritual Gifts
1Corinthians 12:1 Now concerning the spirituals, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
2 Ye know that as nations ye were led away unto those dumb idols, howsoever ye might be led.
3 Wherefore I make known to you, that no one speaking by God’s Spirit saith, Jesus is anathema; and no one can say, Jesus is Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.
4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5 And there are diversities of ministrations, and the same Lord.
6 And there are diversities of workings, but the same God, who worketh all the things in all.
7 But to each is given the manifestation of the Spirit to profit.
8 For to one is given through the Spirit a word of wisdom; and to another a word of knowledge, according to the same Spirit:
9 to another faith, in the same Spirit; and to another gifts of healings, in the one Spirit;
10 and to another workings of powers; and to another prophecy; and to another discernings of spirits: to another kinds of tongues; and to another interpretation of tongues;
11 but all these worketh the one and the same Spirit, dividing to each severally even as he willeth.

Yes the fertile heart receives the Holy Spirit, but the hardened heart does not

 

[Sue D.]

A hardened heart won't be repentant nor accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.
Immediately upon salvation a person will be given a spiritual gift. It is from the Holy Spirit. It is not the result of our asking for them.
And our being baptized has othing to do with the Holy Spirit giving a person spiritual gifts.

 

[Bill]

A hardened heart won't be repentant nor accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.
Immediately upon salvation a person will be given a spiritual gift. It is from the Holy Spirit. It is not the result of our asking for them.
And our being baptized has othing to do with the Holy Spirit giving a person spiritual gifts.

There are some who do not know thier hearts are prejudice against others. Being brought up in a certain way, whether it's from the north, or from the south, or from california, or from Middle America. There are all sorts of prejudice that comes from learned experience.

Not everyone who has received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit actually receives the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. This is only because their heart has not become fertile enough to receive the Holy Spirit in the first place.

And there are some who have received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, and have lost or been suspended from using the gifts because of pride.

A good example of this, are the charismatic groups that were so plentiful back in the '80s and '90s. Look at where they're at now, barely even see them out there. There was a spirit of pride that ran through them like a fire.

I have personally gone to some of these groups, and when they start trying tell everyone in the group that this is what their vision is. The first thought to comes to my mind in hearing the so-called vision is they are false.

I am well aware of when a person makes a false statement, when they are talking about spiritual things.

Even people who are here at this very website, I already know when people are talking to me, who has the gifts of the Holy Spirit and who does not. And to be quite honest, it's kind of easy to see those who do not because of the fruit that they are dishing out, definitely not something of the Spirit.

 

[Sue D.]

@ Bill -- you are so off base Biblically it's really sad.

 

[Twistie]

A hardened heart won't be repentant nor accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.
Immediately upon salvation a person will be given a spiritual gift. It is from the Holy Spirit. It is not the result of our asking for them.
And our being baptized has othing to do with the Holy Spirit giving a person spiritual gifts.

I know many who claim they follow Christ yet sit comfortably in a false light.. filled on mans words and ways they do not follow they Way of YH but follow what man has taught them to follow..

Is


Twistie

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings Bill,

You must be humble of heart to receive the baptism of the holy spirit in its fullness. If your heart is hardened and unforgiving even though you are receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit it will not stay with you it will be like grain falling onto Stone just bouncing off

yes, unforgiveness closes the door on God and His forgiveness and therefore the giving of His gifts.

and as you mentioned, pride also clashes with all Who God is.

Discernment is vital but having that relationship with the Lord Himself is the priority. It is His Helper, Who helps us and shows us discernment, not ourselves.

Mercy Grace and Peace


Bless you ....><>

 

[B-A-C]

Matt 7:21; "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
Matt 7:22; "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
Matt 7:23; "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

I don't know any way to put this without touching on OSAS unfortunately. But there are at least a few views on this passage.

1. They never had the gifts of the Spirit ( they only thought they did ) and either never did any miracles, or else they did them by the power of demons.
I don't know of any place where anyone was healed by a demon in the Bible, however there are a couple of places where demons gave people the power to prophesy.
The Bible says Satan definitely doesn't cast out his own demons.

Acts 16:16; It happened that as we were going to the place of prayer, a slave-girl having a spirit of divination met us, who was bringing her masters much profit by fortune-telling.
Acts 16:17; Following after Paul and us, she kept crying out, saying, "These men are bond-servants of the Most High God, who are proclaiming to you the way of salvation."
Acts 16:18; She continued doing this for many days. But Paul was greatly annoyed, and turned and said to the spirit, "I command you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her!" And it came out at that very moment.

2. They were saved for a while, and actually did the miracles and cast out the demons, at least for a while, and then went back to "practicing lawlessness" ( iniquity, sin ).

3. There is of course the unbiblical view of cessationism ( they believe the gifts were only for the apostles in the first century ).

4. Most Pentecostal denominations ( for example the Assemblies of God ) believe that the "indwelling" of the Spirit is a different thing than the "baptism" of the Holy Spirit.
You receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit at the instant you get saved. ( whether you keep it or not is another debate ), However the baptism of the Holy Spirit is a separate event.
In all five passages in Acts where people received the baptism of the Holy Spirit ( the vast majority were NOT apostles ) it happened some period of time after they were initially saved.
Most Pentecostal denominations would say you "should" be baptized in the Holy Spirit, but since you already have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, it isn't a requirement in order to be saved.

Pentecostals believe the gifts of the Spirit are alive and well today. But in reality, there is sometimes too much emphasis on the "gifts", and not enough emphasis on the fruit.
It's not the Spiritual gifts ( 1 Cor 12:8-10; ) that determine your maturity as a Christian, it's the fruit ( Gal 5:22-23; ). If we look at the passage from Matthew 7 above, it's not
having/doing the gifts that saves you. There are some denominations that believe even if you "fall away" from salvation, you get to keep the Spiritual gifts until you die.

Some Calvinist denominations do not believe that the indwelling and baptism are two separate events. If this is true, then in all five passages where people received the baptism
of the Holy Spirit ( sometimes several years ) after their initial acceptance of Christ, they did not have the Holy Spirit at all, and therefore were not saved until they did.
Virtually all Calvinists believe you are "sealed" by the Holy Spirit until you die. ( Eph 4:30; ) Most of the more accurate translations say you were "marked" with a seal, rather
than you were "sealed". In either case, Calvinists would say you are "sealed" until you are ( safely ?? ) with Jesus. Some Arminians partially agree with this.
They would also say you are sealed until you die. However they would go with the more Biblical view, that you aren't "safe" with Jesus. This is when Jesus judges everyone
and the people who had the Holy Spirit to help them, will be held to a stricter judgment because they had no excuse not to live as Jesus lived.

 

[B-A-C]

The title of this thread is somewhat ambiguous. "... then get baptized". Baptized how? In The Holy Spirit? In water? In both?

You don't necessarily have to be baptized in water before you get baptized in the Holy Spirit. It seems it usually happened that way, but not always.

Acts 9:17; So Ananias departed and entered the house, and after laying his hands on him said, "Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road by which you were coming, has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit."
Acts 9:18; And immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he regained his sight, and he got up and was baptized;

Paul was baptized in water.

Acts 19:2; He said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" And they said to him, "No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit."
Acts 19:3; And he said, "Into what then were you baptized?" And they said, "Into John's baptism."
Acts 19:4; Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus."

The disciples at Ephesus were baptized in water, long before they were baptized in the Spirit.

There is no record of the original 12 apostles ever being baptized in water ( we do know they baptized other people with water ). However it is "assumed" that they were
baptized in water at some point before before being baptized in the Holy Spirit in Acts 2.

Act 8:14; Now when the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent them Peter and John,
Act 8:15; who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit.
Act 8:16; For He had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Act 8:17; Then they began laying their hands on them, and they were receiving the Holy Spirit.

The Samaritans in Acts 8 had already been baptized in water, before they received the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Finally we have Cornelius and his family, ( he is the trouble maker here! ) Cornelius was the first Gentile to be baptized in the Holy Spirit.

Acts 10:44; While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message.
Acts 10:45; All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.
Acts 10:46; For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered,
Acts 10:47; "Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?"
Acts 10:48; And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days.

In Cornelius's case they were baptized by the Holy Spirit before they were baptized in water. So "water-first" must not be a hard and fast rule.

 

[Bill]

Greetings Bill,



yes, unforgiveness closes the door on God and His forgiveness and therefore the giving of His gifts.

and as you mentioned, pride also clashes with all Who God is.

Discernment is vital but having that relationship with the Lord Himself is the priority. It is His Helper, Who helps us and shows us discernment, not ourselves.

Mercy Grace and Peace


Bless you ....><>

When you want to work with tools that you're unfamiliar with. Maybe you want to get into some carpentry, and learn how to make things like rocking chairs or bookcases or even a roll up desk. If you're unfamiliar with the tools or even in the process of making these things you have to read books and you have to explore and hone the skill. The same thing is true with understanding the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Certainly there are some that are gifted right off the bat that have a fullness of understanding of the gifts without even using them one time. But those people are few and far between the vast majority of people will learn to experience the gifts of the Holy Spirit the hard way. The gift of understanding discernment takes a while to really be able to pinpoint everything.
The scripture that shows this to be true is when it states that he will even try to deceive the elect. The elect are the children of God. A good example of this will be when the mark of the beast comes along when you will not be able to buy or sell in fact you'll probably lose your job lose your house lose everything you own because of it because of not receiving the mark of the beast.

I know that many of you dwell in the thinking that you're going to be hurled up to heaven before all the crap hits the fan. But I'm telling you it's at our doorstep. And you like me will live through it.
And when the time comes there will be preachers out there that will tell you it's okay to take the mark of the beast because we are the elect of God or the children of God. But those preachers that preach it and those that take the Mark will all go to hell. Because they are the ones who are going to basically say to God we know better than you and we know that we are saved and we don't care God that you state in the Bible that if you take the mark you're done. It's because their pride will control them.

Unfortunately Brother Bear many that you know many strong Believers that you know that you would say today that would go to heaven because of their faith will fall to the mark of the beast.

You must work on the gifts of the Spirit. You must learn to know the difference between the peace of God in your heart and the falsehood of the devil.

 

[Twistie]

@ Bill -- you are so off base Biblically it's really sad.

I don't see where he is off base...

Can u explain

Twistie

 

[Bill]

The title of this thread is somewhat ambiguous. "... then get baptized". Baptized how? In The Holy Spirit? In water? In both?

You don't necessarily have to be baptized in water before you get baptized in the Holy Spirit. It seems it usually happened that way, but not always.

Acts 9:17; So Ananias departed and entered the house, and after laying his hands on him said, "Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road by which you were coming, has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit."
Acts 9:18; And immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he regained his sight, and he got up and was baptized;

Paul was baptized in water.

Acts 19:2; He said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" And they said to him, "No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit."
Acts 19:3; And he said, "Into what then were you baptized?" And they said, "Into John's baptism."
Acts 19:4; Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus."

The disciples at Ephesus were baptized in water, long before they were baptized in the Spirit.

There is no record of the original 12 apostles ever being baptized in water ( we do know they baptized other people with water ). However it is "assumed" that they were
baptized in water at some point before before being baptized in the Holy Spirit in Acts 2.

Act 8:14; Now when the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent them Peter and John,
Act 8:15; who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit.
Act 8:16; For He had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Act 8:17; Then they began laying their hands on them, and they were receiving the Holy Spirit.

The Samaritans in Acts 8 had already been baptized in water, before they received the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Finally we have Cornelius and his family, ( he is the trouble maker here! ) Cornelius was the first Gentile to be baptized in the Holy Spirit.

Acts 10:44; While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message.
Acts 10:45; All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.
Acts 10:46; For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered,
Acts 10:47; "Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?"
Acts 10:48; And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days.

In Cornelius's case they were baptized by the Holy Spirit before they were baptized in water. So "water-first" must not be a hard and fast rule.

I did not mean to mislead you as far as which baptism. It is the baptism of the holy spirit that you must seek.

A man may go to a Church and at the altar call be called up to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit. But if his heart is unrepentant if he has not forgiven his brothers and sisters if he has any debts that need to be forgiven he will not receive the fullness of the Holy Spirit. I have seen it before for a person receives some of the gift of the Holy Spirit but not the fullness of it. And I have seen others who have been baptized and not received any of the gift of the Holy Spirit at all.

So I'm telling you all of you to repent of your sins before receiving the gifts of the Holy Spirit to open your heart to God's love to forgive those who need to be forgiven and to receive forgiveness from those that need to give it. For the fertile heart is the heart of God's love. And it's in the fertile heart that the holy spirit will grow tremendously in

 

[Bill]

Matt 7:21; "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
Matt 7:22; "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
Matt 7:23; "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

I don't know any way to put this without touching on OSAS unfortunately. But there are at least a few views on this passage.

1. They never had the gifts of the Spirit ( they only thought they did ) and either never did any miracles, or else they did them by the power of demons.
I don't know of any place where anyone was healed by a demon in the Bible, however there are a couple of places where demons gave people the power to prophesy.
The Bible says Satan definitely doesn't cast out his own demons.

Acts 16:16; It happened that as we were going to the place of prayer, a slave-girl having a spirit of divination met us, who was bringing her masters much profit by fortune-telling.
Acts 16:17; Following after Paul and us, she kept crying out, saying, "These men are bond-servants of the Most High God, who are proclaiming to you the way of salvation."
Acts 16:18; She continued doing this for many days. But Paul was greatly annoyed, and turned and said to the spirit, "I command you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her!" And it came out at that very moment.

2. They were saved for a while, and actually did the miracles and cast out the demons, at least for a while, and then went back to "practicing lawlessness" ( iniquity, sin ).

3. There is of course the unbiblical view of cessationism ( they believe the gifts were only for the apostles in the first century ).

4. Most Pentecostal denominations ( for example the Assemblies of God ) believe that the "indwelling" of the Spirit is a different thing than the "baptism" of the Holy Spirit.
You receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit at the instant you get saved. ( whether you keep it or not is another debate ), However the baptism of the Holy Spirit is a separate event.
In all five passages in Acts where people received the baptism of the Holy Spirit ( the vast majority were NOT apostles ) it happened some period of time after they were initially saved.
Most Pentecostal denominations would say you "should" be baptized in the Holy Spirit, but since you already have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, it isn't a requirement in order to be saved.

Pentecostals believe the gifts of the Spirit are alive and well today. But in reality, there is sometimes too much emphasis on the "gifts", and not enough emphasis on the fruit.
It's not the Spiritual gifts ( 1 Cor 12:8-10; ) that determine your maturity as a Christian, it's the fruit ( Gal 5:22-23; ). If we look at the passage from Matthew 7 above, it's not
having/doing the gifts that saves you. There are some denominations that believe even if you "fall away" from salvation, you get to keep the Spiritual gifts until you die.

Some Calvinist denominations do not believe that the indwelling and baptism are two separate events. If this is true, then in all five passages where people received the baptism
of the Holy Spirit ( sometimes several years ) after their initial acceptance of Christ, they did not have the Holy Spirit at all, and therefore were not saved until they did.
Virtually all Calvinists believe you are "sealed" by the Holy Spirit until you die. ( Eph 4:30; ) Most of the more accurate translations say you were "marked" with a seal, rather
than you were "sealed". In either case, Calvinists would say you are "sealed" until you are ( safely ?? ) with Jesus. Some Arminians partially agree with this.
They would also say you are sealed until you die. However they would go with the more Biblical view, that you aren't "safe" with Jesus. This is when Jesus judges everyone
and the people who had the Holy Spirit to help them, will be held to a stricter judgment because they had no excuse not to live as Jesus lived.

It's very true what you just posted at the very top. When you go to the scripture where the man is saying to the Lord. But Lord I cast out demons in your name I healed people in your name. You see it is impossible for someone that is not in the Lord to cast out demons.
We know from scripture itself, that Jesus States that the devil cannot cast out the devil. And we know from Acts where the man tried to cast a demon out and the demon throttles him saying I know Jesus and I know Paul but I don't know you. So that already negates the two factors that a devil can't cast a devil out, nor can a demon be cast out by a human. Which only means that the only way a devil can be cast out is through Jesus/ God.

Which brings us back to the scripture Passage. You see the idea of once saved always saved fall through the floorboards on that. Because if the man was once saved he had to been once saved to cast out demons it's the only way. And now he's being cast out of heaven because the Lord says I never knew you. So there goes the one saved always saved philosophy right down the toilet

 

[theLeadmonger]

Baptism is the outward sign that you accept Christ, but not to leave the Ancient Jews out Naaman did tell the Syrian to wash in the river seven times, and it caused the miracle of healing from leprosy to occur. Also, the Holy Spirit descended like a dove when Christ was baptized, got it. But do you actually believe that baptism itself guarantees the gifts of the Spirit, because the epistles indicate that some people have one talent granted to them in that way, and that others have others. Now was that passage in Acts recorded before or after the upper room meeting at Pentecost, and do you see the two as being related? In other words, is it solely baptism, or is there more to it, in terms of spiritual gifts? That was a serious question, because baptism is one church covenant, but the tongues of fire in the upper room scene occur during the observance of a Passover. Baptism and communion both, the meeting between Jesus and John in the wilderness and the spirit descending on the disciples after the assentation, both services have an appearance by the Holy Spirit in them.

Furthermore, the Old Testament wash in the river is sometimes invoked by faith healers, although I see their arguments as a fairly dodgy "physician heal thyself" spew, and the "Pentecostals" act like they don't need to be baptized at all, they can just commune with the Holy Spirit.

 

[Bill]

Baptism is the outward sign that you accept Christ, but not to leave the Ancient Jews out Naaman did tell the Syrian to wash in the river seven times, and it caused the miracle of healing from leprosy to occur. Also, the Holy Spirit descended like a dove when Christ was baptized, got it. But do you actually believe that baptism itself guarantees the gifts of the Spirit, because the epistles indicate that some people have one talent granted to them in that way, and that others have others. Now was that passage in Acts recorded before or after the upper room meeting at Pentecost, and do you see the two as being related? In other words, is it solely baptism, or is there more to it, in terms of spiritual gifts? That was a serious question, because baptism is one church covenant, but the tongues of fire in the upper room scene occur during the observance of a Passover. Baptism and communion both, the meeting between Jesus and John in the wilderness and the spirit descending on the disciples after the assentation, both services have an appearance by the Holy Spirit in them.

Furthermore, the Old Testament wash in the river is sometimes invoked by faith healers, although I see their arguments as a fairly dodgy "physician heal thyself" spew, and the "Pentecostals" act like they don't need to be baptized at all, they can just commune with the Holy Spirit.

There is one thing different, with the upper room incident, than with Paul baptising others. The Anointing of the Spirit. In the Old Testiment you can see the Anointing with Elijah and others, being given an Anointing.

All, the Baptism, The Gifts and the Anointing all come from the Holy Spirit.

 

[B-A-C]

Baptism is the outward sign that you accept Christ,

I hear many Christians say this from time to time. But is there any scripture to support this? Is there any scripture that says Baptism is just an outward sign to other believers?

Mark 16:16; "He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

Luke 7:30; But the Pharisees and the lawyers rejected God's purpose for themselves, not having been baptized by John.
Acts 2:38; Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 22:16; 'Now why do you delay? Get up and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name.'

1Pet 3:21; Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you—not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Now, do I believe that simply being baptized saves you? Of course not. But it's just as valid to take a verse like Mark 16:16; or 1Pet 3:21; and say that saves you, as it is to take a verse
like Acts 16:31; or Rom 10:9; and say that alone saves you.

 

[B-A-C]

Luke 11:11; "Now suppose one of you fathers is asked by his son for a fish; he will not give him a snake instead of a fish, will he?
Luke 11:12; "Or if he is asked for an egg, he will not give him a scorpion, will he?
Luke 11:13; "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?"

Acts 5:32; "And we are witnesses of these things; and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey Him."

But, what if I don't ask? What if I don't obey?

 

[Waggles]

To whom is Paul writing to?
As with all of the epistles they are letters to the Pentecostal Spirit-filled elect - the called out ones.
Disciples, believers, Christians of The Way who ALL obeyed the commandment to
repent from their dead works,
to be baptized in water for the forgiveness of their sins,
to confess their faith and call on the name of Jesus as their Lord and Saviour,
to be baptized in the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues so that they could pray in the power of the Holy Spirit,
to worship God the Father in Spirit and truth,
that Pentecostal disciples would shine out in the world not only by the transforming power of the Spirit of God dwelling within them, but also demonstrating
the truth and power of the gospel of salvation through signs following > tongues, miracles, healings, fruit of the Spirit,

1Cor 1:2 To the church of God that is in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints together with all those who in every place call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ,
both their Lord and ours:

The nine gifts of the Holy Spirit are distributed for use by Pentecostal saints who are the body of Christ by the indwelling Holy Spirit.