If you had evidence

[floor7]

Are there? Does that seriously change anything I have said?

You seem to be wrapped up in your take on things, so why are you bothering people here? I could give you more details and explanations, but do you really care or are you interested in winning something?

Just because a person is unable to answer your questions doesn't mean that his faith in God is wrong. We are all frail human beings and all of us sometimes miss a point.

When we say it right, God's is speaking through us. When we say it wrong it could simply mean we haven't been paying attention as well as we should. But, you said you had been a believer, so your should already know that part... or did you fall short in your understanding of what it was you thought that you had?

No, I took it all on, until it became unmanageable. One of the biggest reasons for leaving was the complete lack of answers, who likes blindly following something for lack of answers.

Anyway.

 

[Brad Huber]

Let's not be conceited, faith is useless after testing and proving a concept. I'll go as far as saying that faith and evidence is mutually exclusive, and works are not limited in scope or depth by anyone with a belief system.

VERY much of what science states as TRUTH has not been empirically tested to be true, and doesn't include all the variables involved. Much of science unfortunately is a religion designed to find a way it might be possible without God, and that's obvious to anyone not completely indoctrinated into that faith called man's science.

 

[floor7]

VERY much of what science states as TRUTH has not been empirically tested to be true, and doesn't include all the variables involved. Much of science unfortunately is a religion designed to find a way it might be possible without God, and that's obvious to anyone not completely indoctrinated into that faith called man's science.

And you're using a computer?

 

[Brad Huber]

And you're using a computer?

True, pure science is in no way evil. Only science that has been warped to satisfy the practitioner's desire to keep God out of the equation.

 

[floor7]

True, pure science is in no way evil. Only science that has been warped to satisfy the practitioner's desire to keep God out of the equation.

Well, equations work regardless of God being in them. Besides, formulating God in every equation you created might cause a serious headache.

 

[JesusGivesLifeMeaning]

floor7,

I'm unsure of your personal situation, and the cause of your pain, and of course, my human nature does reach out to you; I feel compassion towards any hurting soul. I've read the various replies in this thread, and I really only have this to add here...

At the end of the day, when all of this is "said and done...", you either believe in God, having a personal relationship with Jesus, or you don't.

If you do, and you believe the final consequences as outlined in the Bible, well, then you do know what the end game is, the final outcome.

For me personally, even though I have also been "through the ringer" in my life, and I've also been mad at God for things that have happened to me in the past...I still must cling to Him, because turning my back on Him, renouncing my Salvation would ensure my eternal place of residence in a literal burning hell... and that is far more "worse" than anything I can experience in this life.

I pray that the posts that you read here, the other forum members that are ministering, that our words may be Spirit led, and that God will do a mighty work in you, softening your heart.

God Bless You.

 

[Curtis]

One of the biggest reasons for leaving was the complete lack of answers, who likes blindly following something for lack of answers.

It would be very difficult if not impossible to explain to a first grader on how to do "calculus" with out first understanding the basic's of math.

It is not that the Lord does not answer our many questions we might have, it is because if he did we would not understand them. When I first got saved I had many questions, and when I asked I never got a response back. This bothered me greatly, I did not understand that the Lord is the "teacher", and it is the teacher who set his "curriculum" for the student, not the student. When I learned this I knew eventually I would have all my questions answered, but I first had to leaned elementary teachings in the bible before I could move on to more in depth understandings.

I have been saved more then 40 years, and now when I ask the Lord things I might not understand he tells me almost immediately. Spiritual growth as a Christian brings with it the speed of learning new things much faster than before.

 

[amadeus2]

No, I took it all on, until it became unmanageable. One of the biggest reasons for leaving was the complete lack of answers, who likes blindly following something for lack of answers.

Anyway.

You probably did not take it "all" on even though you may have thought that you did. What is "all"?

Even though too many ministers [or people so designated] too often do not have answers, or worse they provide wrong answers, doesn't mean there is NO answer in God's Way.

As for moving blindly, we may do so in a measure for we do live by faith, but if we are certain we are being led by right Leader, will not the result be good?

 

[Brad Huber]

Well, equations work regardless of God being in them. Besides, formulating God in every equation you created might cause a serious headache.

The theory of evolution of mankind taught as fact for some time, is based on bad science. That's an example, fit that into your equation.

 

[floor7]

You probably did not take it "all" on even though you may have thought that you did. What is "all"?

Even though too many ministers [or people so designated] too often do not have answers, or worse they provide wrong answers, doesn't mean there is NO answer in God's Way.

As for moving blindly, we may do so in a measure for we do live by faith, but if we are certain we are being led by right Leader, will not the result be good?

I took it as far as it could go.

 

[floor7]

The theory of evolution of mankind taught as fact for some time, is based on bad science. That's an example, fit that into your equation.

Ok, why are we talking about evilution now?

 

[amadeus2]

I took it as far as it could go.

Perhaps as far as you could go, but not as far as "it" could go... or so I believe. I have found in my nearly 73 years [devout Catholic until age 18, pentecostal from age 32 and elsewhere from age 46] that the limit on how far I could go has always been me, rather than anything else, including and especially God:

"Yea, they turned back and tempted God, and limited the Holy One of Israel." Psalm 78:41

 

[Jax]

Lets not be rude and assume someone is conceited just because you cannot comprehend or relate to his experience. That's not your call to make.

God, through apostle Paul explains what faith is, in Hebrews 11 entirely.


Faith in Action

1Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see. 2This is what the ancients were commended for.

3By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.

4By faith Abel brought God a better offering than Cain did. By faith he was commended as righteous, when God spoke well of his offerings. And by faith Abel still speaks, even though he is dead.

5By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death: “He could not be found, because God had taken him away.”a For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God. 6And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

7By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in holy fear built an ark to save his family. By his faith he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness that is in keeping with faith.

8By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going. 9By faith he made his home in the promised land like a stranger in a foreign country; he lived in tents, as did Isaac and Jacob, who were heirs with him of the same promise. 10For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God. 11And by faith even Sarah, who was past childbearing age, was enabled to bear children because sheb considered him faithful who had made the promise. 12And so from this one man, and he as good as dead, came descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as countless as the sand on the seashore.

13All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth. 14People who say such things show that they are looking for a country of their own. 15If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return. 16Instead, they were longing for a better country—a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them.

17By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had embraced the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only son, 18even though God had said to him, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.”c 19Abraham reasoned that God could even raise the dead, and so in a manner of speaking he did receive Isaac back from death.

20By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau in regard to their future.

21By faith Jacob, when he was dying, blessed each of Joseph’s sons, and worshiped as he leaned on the top of his staff.

22By faith Joseph, when his end was near, spoke about the exodus of the Israelites from Egypt and gave instructions concerning the burial of his bones.

23By faith Moses’ parents hid him for three months after he was born, because they saw he was no ordinary child, and they were not afraid of the king’s edict.

24By faith Moses, when he had grown up, refused to be known as the son of Pharaoh’s daughter. 25He chose to be mistreated along with the people of God rather than to enjoy the fleeting pleasures of sin. 26He regarded disgrace for the sake of Christ as of greater value than the treasures of Egypt, because he was looking ahead to his reward. 27By faith he left Egypt, not fearing the king’s anger; he persevered because he saw him who is invisible. 28By faith he kept the Passover and the application of blood, so that the destroyer of the firstborn would not touch the firstborn of Israel.

29By faith the people passed through the Red Sea as on dry land; but when the Egyptians tried to do so, they were drowned.

30By faith the walls of Jericho fell, after the army had marched around them for seven days.

31By faith the prostitute Rahab, because she welcomed the spies, was not killed with those who were disobedient.d

32And what more shall I say? I do not have time to tell about Gideon, Barak, Samson and Jephthah, about David and Samuel and the prophets, 33who through faith conquered kingdoms, administered justice, and gained what was promised; who shut the mouths of lions, 34quenched the fury of the flames, and escaped the edge of the sword; whose weakness was turned to strength; and who became powerful in battle and routed foreign armies. 35Women received back their dead, raised to life again. There were others who were tortured, refusing to be released so that they might gain an even better resurrection. 36Some faced jeers and flogging, and even chains and imprisonment. 37They were put to death by stoning;e they were sawed in two; they were killed by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated— 38the world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, living in caves and in holes in the ground.

39These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised, 40since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.


Evidence is everywhere and the Holy Spirit reveals that to believers. However, if you have a stubborn attitude and a hardened heart what will you expect to be revealed to you or for you to even understand? Faith is trusting what God says in the bible, entirely and believing who He is.

Yes faith is capable of moving mountains believing the Lord in all things. True faith brings good fruit.