Welcome!

By registering with us, you'll be able to discuss, share and private message with other members of our community.

SignUp Now!
  • Welcome to Talk Jesus Christian Forums

    Celebrating 20 Years!

    A bible based, Jesus Christ centered community.

    Register Log In

Is abortion ever ok???

Is abortion ever ok?

  • Yes! Always! It's the woman's choice!

    Votes: 8 8.5%
  • Only if the woman was raped...

    Votes: 2 2.1%
  • It is NEVER ok, despite any situation that may have occured.

    Votes: 78 83.0%
  • I am undecided on this issue.

    Votes: 6 6.4%

  • Total voters
    94
Who are we to decide when to end a life?

I have never been in that place and I pray I never am where I have to either choose my life or the baby's.

How could anyone choose to live while their baby dies? I don't know if I could live with myself. Quilt...you know.

That is why 'playing God' should be left to God and not us. God's ways are higher than ours. He knows what is going on.

Because the baby isn't born...does not mean we take its life.

Why would the mother's life be more valuable than the babies?

I stand for life. I stand for BOTH the mother and the baby to live! And no, I will not answer questions that ask me 'what if it was me?' Because it hasn't happened and I won't lie and say something when I would do something else if it happens.

I don't ask this kind of decision on anymore.
 
Last edited:
it is hard

I am not saying that the mother is "more important" I guess the issue is -- is one death better than two, or flip it and say are two deaths better than one?

I was in a situation with my last child of pre-term labor. The meds they were giving me were playing havoc on my system (extremely high BP and pulse were the worst I suppose) I became "stable" and they sent me home with the oral meds. The directions from the dr on call specifically said take every 4 hours DO NOT take if heart rate is above 110. I was going back the next morning to see the dr again, my heart rate was well above 110 all night and I never took any of the pills over night (contractions were extremly minimal at this point, or my decissions may have been different) but I had to make a decission. Risk stroke or death, which if death would have occured the baby would have died as well, so all would be for naught. Even with stroke that the baby may have survived but I may have ended up dead or completely "useless", I had 3 other children I also had to think about, and I love them all. I loved that baby even before she was born and continue to love her very much. Sometimes these decissions are hard. Thankfully God kept us both safe, even though I didn't take the pills. I did get reemed out by the next's days doc, as she asked if I wanted to loose this baby (I had 2 miscarriages and I know the pain of loosing a child) I said of course not but I was following the directions the other doctor gave me. Besides if I had stroked, how would that have been in the best interest of this baby? She did not really know what to say. If they would have told me to abort that baby to prevent me from stroking, etc I really don't think I could have. I weighed the risks and felt stable enough to not take the pills.

Not everything is black and white and I would never want to be in a situation where I have to choose my life or another's. I guess my point is that sometimes there are difficult decissions that include abortion, in which that decission has to be between you and God. Conjoined twins, to seperate or not, there are times that seperating becomes a choice of saving one by sacraficing the other or letting both perish. It is the same scenario as choosing mother or letting both mother and baby die, what does one do? How do you decide what God wants you to do? Why did Moses end up in the river to be saved while many others perished?

Maybe I was wrong, maybe I should have taken the pills, trusting that God would keep me safe, instead I didn't take them trusting that God would keep my baby safe. Maybe I was wrong, but I don't think that I love my daughter any less because I made the decission I made.
 
Absolutely not. Man does not have the right to play God, and that is what happens in these situations. Man tries to alter God's path for us.

Murder is murder any way you look at it!


God doesnt make mistakes. Is not our path already planned? Did he not know that this would happen to our world? Our lack of faith shows in many situations. Isnt birth control playing God then too? I feel that He gives us a gift of our own: Trinity of Family. Father plus mother plus baby. All are one. Why is it so hard to accept the most beautiful gifts he offers us, yet we wander or even run to fulfill our own selfish needs daily. I pray he comes to the Hearts of those seeking answers, including me.
 
I feel, and this is just me, that in a case where the Mothers life is hanging in the balance, would it ever be considered.

For if the Mother dies, the baby would too, so in a life and death situation, maybe it might be necessary.
No other time, for that Baby is a living human being, Not a choice.

Then perhaps now they can take the baby, and keep it alive, and the Mother also?
Not sure how far advanced they are in those things.
Someone talked about a certain span of 30 weeks?



Wow that makes me wonder too but I think I would still act according to wat conscience tells me(if i were a woman).:embarasse
 
God doesnt make mistakes. Is not our path already planned? Did he not know that this would happen to our world? Our lack of faith shows in many situations. Isnt birth control playing God then too? I feel that He gives us a gift of our own: Trinity of Family. Father plus mother plus baby. All are one. Why is it so hard to accept the most beautiful gifts he offers us, yet we wander or even run to fulfill our own selfish needs daily. I pray he comes to the Hearts of those seeking answers, including me.


Yes our actions are pre-known but God knows that we will, many times, take the wrong path...he knows we will screw up.

We can not change what is going to ultimately happen, but as humans we will still do things that we should not. We can only do that which God already knows what we are going to do, but that does not change the fact that we will do them.
 
I weighed the risks and felt stable enough to not take the pills.

I just wanted to clarify that when I said stable enough to not take the pills, I meant contraction wise, I felt the contractions were minimal enough to not take the meds, while my heart rate/blood pressure were not stable enough to take the meds. I may have just made that statement more confusing.
 
I was undecided, but now I'm thinking about the after effects women who have aborted go through. It tears them apart. Insetead of looking at it like it is justifiable because of the circumstance (rape), maybe we should be looking at it like, why add on any more pain for the woman. In the long run, an abortion on top of rape, might be cumulative, rather than remedial. The woman will be going through the after effects of being raped, as well as the after effects of haveing an abortion.

Maybe we could protect both the woman and the child by counselling in a manner that honors both. God's laws are wise, and centered around his love for ALL of us.

Ultimately it is not our place to judge, but to make these decisions for ourselves, and to have compassion for people who might make other decisions. Who is anyone here, in a place to judge? Especially if we take the high road of being judgmental of others? Break one of God's laws to express our belief about another? Compassion has to be central. We can't be anywhere near to God's wisdom if we are not both humble and compassionate.

The tone of some of these replies is a bit scary to read, especially from Christians.
 
Last edited:
Exactly, dc (I can't remember the rest of your name :-S).

My husband and I were talking about the side effects of abortions. The physical, the mental, the emotional. Abortions could make it unlikely to ever have children. The side effects, for me, turn me off, too. Nothing abortion is wrong...it is murder...and then the side effects...makes the gray area smaller...non-existent for me.
 
101 USES FOR A DEAD (or live) BABY
by Olga Fairfax, Ph.D

. When I saw the first ad on TV advertising collagen-enriched
cosmetics I was speechless. We'll be apologizing to Hitler, I
thought; at least he didn't kill for money!
. Collagen is the gelatinous substance found in connective tissue,
bone and cartilage. Nick Thimmesch's syndicated column, "Our Grisly
Human Fetal Industry" documents that amniotic fluid and collagen can
come from fetal material, since the Food and Drug Administration does
not require pretesting or the identification of cosmetic ingredients.
. A glance through a local drug store revealed that the leading 12
shampoos and five hand creams all contained collagen.
. Check your beauty products and you may be shocked! Unless your
beauty product specifies animal collagen or bovine collagen, the
product probably contains human collagen. The drug company should be
challenged at once. Even collagen taken from a human placenta raises
questions about respect of life and ownership of the placenta.
. A letter from Mary Kay Cosmetics emphasizes that their collagen
all comes from animals. A similar letter from Hask has also been
received.
. Since there are 1.5 million abortions every year, there is an
abundant source of fetuses for commercial use.
. There's triple profit to be had. The first is from the abortion
(estimated at a half billion dollars a year by Fortune magazine). The
second profit comes from the sale of aborted babies' bodies. The
third profit is from unsuspecting customers buying cosmetics.
. Babies' bodies are sold by the bag, $25 a batch or up to $5500 a
pound. The sale of later-term elective abortions at D.C. General
Hospital brought $68,000 between 1966 and 1976. The money was used to
buy a TV set and cookies and soft drinks for visiting professors.
Personally, I hope that they choked on the Kool-Aid!
. Call your local abortuary and hospital and ask them some pointed
questions about the disposal and possible sale of fetuses. Would an
abortionist who kills a baby think twice about selling its body? One
prenatal killer said, "A baby is becoming property. We kill, keep or
sell the property."
. In the Pittsburgh Women's Health Service there's a sign in the
lab areas asking doctors not to carry dead fetuses without wrapping
them since it disturbs the patients.

Treated like trash

. What have abortuaries done with fetuses in the past before they
realized that they could make another profit out of them?
. Well, "Richmond's shame" marked a new low in disposal of wastes.
An abortion center there filled a long bin on the rear of its property
with the remains of its day's nefarious doings. Its trash compactor
neatly mashed 100 babies' bodies which were then tied up in plastic
bags and thrown on top of the bin.
. "The hungry dogs came along and dragged the bags away. There
were frequent fights and the contents of the bags would be strewn up
and down the streets until the dogs separated the gauze, sponges and
pads and devoured the placenta, bones and flesh of the babies." said a
mother.
. She went to the police, health department and city hall and felt
that she got nowhere: but the bags, of warm human babies' mutilated
parts disappeared from the streets even though the clinic increased
its abortions from 25 to 150 a week. They've since moved to larger
quarters.
. The Jacksonville, Florida, Womens' Center for Reproductive
Health, which is run and owned by the Clergy Consultation Service,
advertises "celebrating a decade of service."

Nothing to Celebrate

. What they don't advertise is that they leave aborted babies out
for the trash pickup. Rev. Marvin Lutz, the director explained that
the practice of leaving the remains out was perfectly legal and
approved by the "good housekeeping" Judases, the National Abortion
Federation and the Florida Abortion Council.
. Dr. Jeronimo Dominguez of New York wrote that "on any Monday you
can see about 30 garbage bags with fetal material in them along the
sidewalks of several abortion clinics in New York."
. In Odessa, Texas, city ordinance 69-91 forbids placing a dead
animal in a dumpster. But that didn't stop one abortionist from
depositing large brown plastic bags full of sock like gauze bags into
the city dumpster prior to closing every night.
. A Baptist minister opened the bags and to his horror found a
little "perfectly formed hands and feet of a 13-week old baby and the
complete body, in pieces, of a 17-week old baby. Everything except
one foot was there: the rib cage, sexual organs, head, finger nails
and toe nails."
. He nearly died of shock. I nearly did too, reading about it.

They Burn Babies, Don't They?

. Babies used to be burned on the altar to Baal; now they're burned
in furnaces at the sites of their deaths.
. In Cincinnati, a prenatal killer allowed dense smoke to emanate
from his chimney. When firemen were called they were told, "They're
burning babies," as if that was routine.
. One wonders how life saving firemen could continue their
dedication amid such a contradiction!
. One pro-lifer overheard her children (ages five and seven)
discussing the infamous picture of the babies in the trash can the
first time they saw it.
. "It's dolls, It has to be dolls," said the kindergartner. "No,"
said his pre-school sister, "it's babies." The older child couldn't
believe it. "It has to be dolls," he insisted. "Why would anyone
throw away babies?"
. When their mother explained to them that it was babies, both
children grew very quiet. Silently they studied the picture and then
recalled the times they had gone on trips to the city dump with the
family. "Will the rats eat the babies when they take them to the
dump?" the boy asked.

The New Laboratory Rat

. Some researchers insist that the reason they must do research on
human fetuses is because they are human, not animal.
. In a it-shouldn't-happen to a dog story, 47 senators voted in
1974 to protect dogs from experimentation with poisonous gas but then
voted down Senator Jess Helm's amendment to prevent federal funds from
being used for abortion. One liberal, pro-abortion Senator gave an
emotion laden speech to protect dogs. Man's best friend came out
better than man himself!
. Who is pressing for the "right" to experiment? No one less than
the nation Institutes of Health. A stacked national commission gave
them the "right" and this experimentation is funded by you, the
taxpayer!
. There is another sequel to the erosion of the value of human
life. Abortion, fetal experimentation, infanticide and euthanasia are
four walls of the same coffin.
. Even Planned Parenthood's anti-life lawyer Harriet Pilpel was
shocked. "What mother (sic) would consent to an experiment on her
fetus?" she asked.
 
I think asking this question is the same as asking: "When is it OK to kill somebody you don't like?"
 
101 USES FOR A DEAD (or live) BABY
by Olga Fairfax, Ph.D

. When I saw the first ad on TV advertising collagen-enriched
cosmetics I was speechless. We'll be apologizing to Hitler, I
thought; at least he didn't kill for money!
. Collagen is the gelatinous substance found in connective tissue,
bone and cartilage. Nick Thimmesch's syndicated column, "Our Grisly
Human Fetal Industry" documents that amniotic fluid and collagen can
come from fetal material, since the Food and Drug Administration does
not require pretesting or the identification of cosmetic ingredients.
. A glance through a local drug store revealed that the leading 12
shampoos and five hand creams all contained collagen.
. Check your beauty products and you may be shocked! Unless your
beauty product specifies animal collagen or bovine collagen, the
product probably contains human collagen. The drug company should be
challenged at once. Even collagen taken from a human placenta raises
questions about respect of life and ownership of the placenta.
. A letter from Mary Kay Cosmetics emphasizes that their collagen
all comes from animals. A similar letter from Hask has also been
received.
. Since there are 1.5 million abortions every year, there is an
abundant source of fetuses for commercial use.
. There's triple profit to be had. The first is from the abortion
(estimated at a half billion dollars a year by Fortune magazine). The
second profit comes from the sale of aborted babies' bodies. The
third profit is from unsuspecting customers buying cosmetics.
. Babies' bodies are sold by the bag, $25 a batch or up to $5500 a
pound. The sale of later-term elective abortions at D.C. General
Hospital brought $68,000 between 1966 and 1976. The money was used to
buy a TV set and cookies and soft drinks for visiting professors.
Personally, I hope that they choked on the Kool-Aid!
. Call your local abortuary and hospital and ask them some pointed
questions about the disposal and possible sale of fetuses. Would an
abortionist who kills a baby think twice about selling its body? One
prenatal killer said, "A baby is becoming property. We kill, keep or
sell the property."
. In the Pittsburgh Women's Health Service there's a sign in the
lab areas asking doctors not to carry dead fetuses without wrapping
them since it disturbs the patients.

Treated like trash

. What have abortuaries done with fetuses in the past before they
realized that they could make another profit out of them?
. Well, "Richmond's shame" marked a new low in disposal of wastes.
An abortion center there filled a long bin on the rear of its property
with the remains of its day's nefarious doings. Its trash compactor
neatly mashed 100 babies' bodies which were then tied up in plastic
bags and thrown on top of the bin.
. "The hungry dogs came along and dragged the bags away. There
were frequent fights and the contents of the bags would be strewn up
and down the streets until the dogs separated the gauze, sponges and
pads and devoured the placenta, bones and flesh of the babies." said a
mother.
. She went to the police, health department and city hall and felt
that she got nowhere: but the bags, of warm human babies' mutilated
parts disappeared from the streets even though the clinic increased
its abortions from 25 to 150 a week. They've since moved to larger
quarters.
. The Jacksonville, Florida, Womens' Center for Reproductive
Health, which is run and owned by the Clergy Consultation Service,
advertises "celebrating a decade of service."

Nothing to Celebrate

. What they don't advertise is that they leave aborted babies out
for the trash pickup. Rev. Marvin Lutz, the director explained that
the practice of leaving the remains out was perfectly legal and
approved by the "good housekeeping" Judases, the National Abortion
Federation and the Florida Abortion Council.
. Dr. Jeronimo Dominguez of New York wrote that "on any Monday you
can see about 30 garbage bags with fetal material in them along the
sidewalks of several abortion clinics in New York."
. In Odessa, Texas, city ordinance 69-91 forbids placing a dead
animal in a dumpster. But that didn't stop one abortionist from
depositing large brown plastic bags full of sock like gauze bags into
the city dumpster prior to closing every night.
. A Baptist minister opened the bags and to his horror found a
little "perfectly formed hands and feet of a 13-week old baby and the
complete body, in pieces, of a 17-week old baby. Everything except
one foot was there: the rib cage, sexual organs, head, finger nails
and toe nails."
. He nearly died of shock. I nearly did too, reading about it.

They Burn Babies, Don't They?

. Babies used to be burned on the altar to Baal; now they're burned
in furnaces at the sites of their deaths.
. In Cincinnati, a prenatal killer allowed dense smoke to emanate
from his chimney. When firemen were called they were told, "They're
burning babies," as if that was routine.
. One wonders how life saving firemen could continue their
dedication amid such a contradiction!
. One pro-lifer overheard her children (ages five and seven)
discussing the infamous picture of the babies in the trash can the
first time they saw it.
. "It's dolls, It has to be dolls," said the kindergartner. "No,"
said his pre-school sister, "it's babies." The older child couldn't
believe it. "It has to be dolls," he insisted. "Why would anyone
throw away babies?"
. When their mother explained to them that it was babies, both
children grew very quiet. Silently they studied the picture and then
recalled the times they had gone on trips to the city dump with the
family. "Will the rats eat the babies when they take them to the
dump?" the boy asked.

The New Laboratory Rat

. Some researchers insist that the reason they must do research on
human fetuses is because they are human, not animal.
. In a it-shouldn't-happen to a dog story, 47 senators voted in
1974 to protect dogs from experimentation with poisonous gas but then
voted down Senator Jess Helm's amendment to prevent federal funds from
being used for abortion. One liberal, pro-abortion Senator gave an
emotion laden speech to protect dogs. Man's best friend came out
better than man himself!
. Who is pressing for the "right" to experiment? No one less than
the nation Institutes of Health. A stacked national commission gave
them the "right" and this experimentation is funded by you, the
taxpayer!
. There is another sequel to the erosion of the value of human
life. Abortion, fetal experimentation, infanticide and euthanasia are
four walls of the same coffin.
. Even Planned Parenthood's anti-life lawyer Harriet Pilpel was
shocked. "What mother (sic) would consent to an experiment on her
fetus?" she asked.


I think it is extremely important to not confuse the woman who goes for an abortion for her own reasons with this industry.

Even if she is misguided, selfish, immature, scared, just plain cold-hearted...whatever... this industry is beyond the woman who makes that choice. It is too easy to put the ferver of our passion against this sort of atrosity upon the woman, to demonize the woman. Really scary stuff happens that way.

God forgives. He will judge. We do not have the right or capacity to handle these things ourselves, as broken and sinful as we ALL are.
 
sharing

the bible says in psalm 139:13 (Amplifield) For you did form my inward parts, You did knit me together in my mother's womb.

sometime back i was listening to something on the radio and it just touched my heart. i was listening to Dr. Dobson and a young woman that is 31 yrs old. was giving her testimony her name is Gianna Jessen, she was a survivor of a abortion. check out her testimony for whoever may read this. i dont understand how someone can give up a life that is living inside a mother's womb. Babies are human they need to be loved and nurtured. whoever thought that a baby was a blob, then again whoever thought of abortion? one of the things i don't understand is how can a abortion dr have a family when he or she is working in their office performing abortions? the other day a question rose up in me and i thought for every baby that is born into this world does it really make a abortion dr mad? through my 13 yrs of walking with the Lord God taught me to love people but not their sin. i'm not going to judge someone but i am going to do what the Lord would want me to do which is to build someone up, love them, and be there for them.
 
We first have to be thought to love life,in whatever shape or form it may be.
Abortionist have billions of dollars at their disposal and they have top knotch counselors trained in the art of deception.

What we need is more Holy Ghost filled women to counsel and teach other women.
 
I strongly agree that abortion is wrong in any circumstance, no one should be punished for the crime of others. " What they ment for evil God ment for good " Godbless love in Christ.
 
I truly cannot come to understand how people rationalize killing unborn children. Is the baby not technically a human being until it comes out of the womb?? Pro-choice? What about the childs right to life and choice?? It comes down to selfishness pure and simple.

Anyway I'll get off my soap box before I begin to really rant and ask a serious question. I did'nt see an option for abortion when the mothers life is at stake. This is the only issue with abortions I'm on the fence about. There are certian circumstances when the mothers life is at stake if she goes through with the pregnancy. Where might this fall Biblically??
 
TimK,

How many women actually come to those circumstances where they must choose their life or the life of their baby? Or the choice be taken from her? What are the statistics?

In this day and age of technology, would this really happen?

I'm just asking because this to me is BLACK and WHITE. There is no gray space.

Either it is wrong to murder the baby or it isn't. You can't kill half the baby and the other half be alive. It is either death or life.

God will judge all of this.


If I was in that situation, PRAYER would come first. I would pray that God would give us guidance. To be in this place...who has the right to even choose this...none BUT God!
 
This article is from 1984:
101 USES FOR A DEAD (or live) BABY
by Olga Fairfax, Ph.D

I have searched and cannot find anything to validate it, except this:



"Many of Fairfax's statements were startling, but my favorite was this: "A study was done on the severed heads of 12 babies delivered by C-section who were kept alive for months."

Yes, folks, you read right: "severed heads of 12 babies . . . kept alive for months."

I don't buy it either.
LoJ
 
I don't believe that abortion is ever RIGHT, but I do believe it should be justifiable in case of rape or the mother's life is in danger if she carries the baby to term.
 
I am curious what people's opinions are on this topic. I have heard people say,"abortion is wrong...unless it's rape of course because then it's not the girls fault." Personally I believe that abortion is ALWAYS wrong even it was rape, but I am curious as to what others think. Please tell me why you believe what you believe.


I agree with you......In all circumstances abortion is wrong. This is the Christian view....and I support it 100%

But as servants of the Master......Compassion must be embraced, and excercised in our faith.

In the world today if abortion were forbidden......it would go 'underground' It would be done 'where-ever and at what price.... and the price would go to those affording such facility. And what pain and trauma to the lady?

Our Christian beliefs are high...........but we must not penalise those who have never met the Master.

Humanity is prone to error. Christianity must accommodate the error of fellow men, and endeavour through preaching, and social outreach be a blessing to save.

Except I be moved with compassion,
How dwelleth the Spirit in me?
In word or in deed burning love is my need
I know I can find it in Thee
 
Back
Top