Is God in control of the government?

[jabattler8888]

I was told that God is control of whoever is in government

 

[Sosthenes]

Daniel 4:17 This decision is the decree of the watchers, the verdict declared by the holy ones, so that the living will know that the Most High is ruler over the kingdom of mankind, and He gives it to whom He wishes, setting over it the lowliest of men.'

Daniel 4:17 - Nebuchadnezzar's Dream of a Great Tree

This decision is the decree of the watchers, the verdict declared by the holy ones, so that the living will know that the Most High rules over the kingdom of mankind and gives it to whom He wishes, setting over it the lowliest of men.'

biblehub.com

 

[PloughBoy]

If you believe that Our GOD is Sovereign, there is nothing to think about But if you have to think about, you do not know "The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is . That Has Created all things, that exist, invisible and visible, It would be nice for you to learn about HIM, and there is only one Way to get to know Him, You must go through His Son, and His Son will have to reveal Him to you, And if you Love the SON, Then The true GOD will love you and you have "communion" with "The Father" and you will get to know HIM The government, is temporal. Everything even The Devil himself is under the "Sovereignty of The True GOD"

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

I was told that God is control of whoever is in government

Can you tell where in the Bible that it says God is in control in the Earth? It says WE are in contol....It says that God is sovereign but it does not say He is in control in the Earth.

 

[backNforth]

I was told that God is control of whoever is in government.

That would be Godly government. And there is no end to HIS government, the Real Deal...

Meanwhile, Satan's counterfeit, the purported authority, is the usurper. Satan is the present prince of the power of the air, working through unbelievers (aka "the children of disobedience"); we're not to be found in that camp, where "The kings set themselves, and the rules take counsel against the Lord and against his anointed..." (Psa 2). There's no Godly ordination there.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

That would be Godly government. And there is no end to HIS government, the Real Deal...

Meanwhile, Satan's counterfeit, the purported authority, is the usurper. Satan is the present prince of the power of the air, working through unbelievers (aka "the children of disobedience"); we're not to be found in that camp, where "The kings set themselves, and the rules take counsel against the Lord and against his anointed..." (Psa 2). There's no Godly ordination there.

May I suggest you tell what the Bible says Romans 13:1 for a start. Nobody gets into a position of authority unless God sets them there I really wish you would learn WORD. You would enjoy it.

 

[Primordial Light]

Can you tell where in the Bible that it says God is in control in the Earth? It says WE are in contol....It says that God is sovereign but it does not say He is in control in the Earth.

YUP, the CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE IS IN CONTROL OF EVERYTHING.
Imagine that!!

God works ALL THINGS after the counsel of HIS OWN WILL - Ephesians 1:11

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

YUP, the CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE IS IN CONTROL OF EVERYTHING.
Imagine that!!

God works ALL THINGS after the counsel of HIS OWN WILL - Ephesians 1:11

OK But where in the bible does it say God has control in the Earth? He is most definitely sovereign but where does it say He is in Control?

 

[Andyindauk]

Romans 8:28 when all things work together for good, is that vain hope, by chance or by design? God is in control of every minute detail, every moment, every minute, every day. Does He constantly exert that control is a different question.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

Romans 8:28 when all things work together for good, is that vain hope, by chance or by design? God is in control of every minute detail. Does He constantly exert that control is a different question.

Nobody seems to be able to tell me WHERE in the bible it says God is in control in the Earth...Can you? I contend that God is not in control in the Earth..Sovereign yes, but in control? No. Mankind is in control

 

[Andyindauk]

Nobody seems to be able to tell me WHERE in the bible it says God is in control in the Earth...Can you? I contend that God is not in control in the Earth..Sovereign yes, but in control? No. Mankind is in control

I just did. That verse would be hollow rhetoric or a platitude if God wasn't in control. Man is not in control, he thinks he is; he's not. God is in total control, just because He doesn't exert that control, doesn't mean to say He isn't. God allows a measure of free will, we have to cope as best we can with the consequences of our inherent sinful nature, that's why bad things happen. Earthquakes, wars, famine, floods, accidents and tragedies. Man doesn't want these things, they're just part of his baggage, but there will come a day when God takes a more interventionalist role and does exert His control when He puts His son Jesus in charge of the Earth Revelation 20:4-6.

Read the parable of the wicked husbandmen in Matthew 21:33-41 and tell me, were the husbandmen in control of the vineyard or did they just think they were?

 

[Primordial Light]

Romans 8:28 when all things work together for good, is that vain hope, by chance or by design? God is in control of every minute detail, every moment, every minute, every day. Does He constantly exert that control is a different question.

Yes, God is Omnificent - He does all that is done. He is constantly doing Good and Evil in every nanosecond of everything in the Universe, including me typing this and you thinking about what you are reading.

"The Lord creates good and evil, I the LORD do ALL THESE THINGS - Isaiah 45:7

Hey @Admon Mikha'el here is your 'Earth' scripture
Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying,
"All authority has been given to Me in heaven and ON EARTH.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

I just did. That verse would be hollow rhetoric or a platitude if God wasn't in control. Man is not in control, he thinks he is; he's not. God is in total control, just because He doesn't exert that control, doesn't mean to say He isn't. God allows a measure of free will, we have to cope as best we can with the consequences of our inherent sinful nature, that's why bad things happen. Earthquakes, wars, famine, floods, accidents and tragedies. Man doesn't want these things, they're just part of his baggage, but there will come a day when God takes a more interventionalist role and does exert His control when He puts His son Jesus in charge of the Earth Revelation 20:4-6.

Read the parable of the wicked husbandmen in Matthew 21:33-41 and tell me, were the husbandmen in control of the vineyard or did they just think they were?

Actually you just didn't. You did give me a verse that says All things work for good. For whom? To those who love God and who are The called according to His purpose FOR THEM The verse says God is working on behalf of those who love Him. Not that He is in contol in the Earth. Yes..In the future, when He sets Jesus on HIs throne on the Earth He will have control again Good try my friend Try again?

 

[Christ4Ever]

Dear Brothers & Sisters,
I think there is a bit of conflict between how the question is phrased to begin with, and what the Author and Scripture intends to convey. One the question/topic "Is God in control of the government?" I would say the answer is no, but the question "Are those in Government given the authority by God?", and my answer would be yes. What one might be seeking is does what those in authority do/do not do have the approval of God for the all the things they do?

All you have to do to see the answer to this is those who were in authority from the OT - NT and know that there were many in authority who went against God's Laws given to them, and abused the authority given to them, as was shown by Jesus on more than one occasion. Who we should pay attention to, since as He said in Matthew 28:18 ..."All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth." Does this mean that God approves or dictated what all those in authority have done? Personally, I believe the authority of man in government has been given to them by our Lord, but what they do with it, is entirely up to them. Both to the good, and to the bad, of which like all of us, as will they, have to give account for.

To believers we should keep these verses in mind. As long as it doesn't conflict with what our Lord has told us to do. As was the case with Peter and John in Acts 4:19.

Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. Romans 13:1-2 NKJV

But Peter and John answered and said to them, "Whether it is right in the sight of God to listen to you more than to God, you judge. Acts 4:19 NKJV

I do have a feeling that this thread in one way or another will be moving in the direction/discussion of "Free Will".

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[backNforth]

Nobody gets into a position of authority unless God sets them there I really wish you would learn WORD. You would enjoy it.

It is this very smugness that has resulted in the terrible bind we find ourselves in today.

The problem remains: most do not distinguish righteous government from unrighteous pretenders. Romans 13 is ALL ABOUT righteous government; it gives no life to the unclean thing.

May I suggest you tell what the Bible says Romans 13:1 for a start.

So let's do that. I will now "tell what the Bible says about Romans 13 for a start." (BTW, this was a favorite passage of Adolph Hitler's, used to justify his brand of submission.)

There's only one Lawgiver, and the government is on his shoulders. And this would be GODLY government - not the counterfeit most ignorantly insist we should serve today.

Many stumble with the reality that there is a counterfeit “authority” seeking our obeisance. Satan said, “I will be like the most High” (Isaiah 14:14).

It is Satan’s “higher power” that is behind the merchants, the rich men of the earth, the present temporal “governing authorities."

In reply to the blind opinion that all kings, princes, and governments are set up and "ordained" by God, we will quote the following passage, which is spoken into the ears of Hosea by God Almighty himself. We pray that those who have eyes to see and ears to hear will no longer engage in such opinions:

They have set up kings, but not by me: they have made princes, and I knew it not. (Hos 8:4)

Also,

Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying, Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us. (Psa 2:1-3)

There's no Godly ordination there.

When scripture speaks of obeying and submitting ourselves to those who have the rule over us, God’s word is not talking about heathen governments, but those "rulers" within Jesus Christ's assembly. Notice carefully this verse says these rulers (i.e. “them that have the rule over you”) "watch for your souls" (Heb. 13:17). Governments of men cannot govern or watch for anyone's souls, for they can only govern outward acts, not the inward being. But true spiritual leaders do watch for our souls.

Those who "have the rule over you" at Hebrews 13:17 is specifically defined a few verses earlier in Hebrews 13:7, "Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation

As we can see, scripture itself defines these "rulers" as those who speak the word of God and have faith. Conversely, secular governments avoid, and often forbid, speaking the word of God within their system through outlawing prayer in their schools and replacing it with such unrighteousness as "the theory of evolution," and by taking down the "Ten Commandments" from their courtrooms. These are not the rulers we are to submit to.

Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. Romans 13:1-2 NKJV

In Romans 13, does verse 1 say, ‘let every soul be subject unto all governments’? Or does it say, "let every soul (including governing authorities such as kings, judges, police, etc.) be subject unto the higher powers"? Who do souls belong to? God says:

Ezekiel 18:4, "Behold, all souls are mine."

And the second part of verse 1 tells us who “the higher powers” is: "...For there is no power but of God".

The souls of the governmental powers belong to God, and they are not the higher powers, the higher powers are held by Christ himself (Matthew 28:18). Is our Lord not the higher power, then, if all power has been committed unto him (John 17:2)? Christ is the governor among the nations (Psalms 22:28). All power over earthly kings has been given unto him (Romans 14:9). All judgment has been given unto him (John 5:22, 27). Notice the separation of power in Romans 13:1. All power comes from, and belongs to, God (Psalm 62:11) and not the one exercising it. And remember that most men, especially those constituting the "governing authorities," usually deny that power given to Jesus (2 Timothy 3:2, 5):

“For men shall be...Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away."

Pertinent questions are: for what purpose does God allow an ungodly government to exist; and what should the born again's response be to that usurper.

If your reaction to being told that there are faults in Caesar's statutes is to rush to defend them, it is because you cannot envision life without them. This is normal for someone who can only see one kingdom: the kingdom of this world. Yet this world is passing away, as are our own bodies. There is only one thing in life more certain than Caesar's taxes. So we are really here as a test of whether we can “see” and then choose those things that have eternal value. Are our energies devoted to laying up earthly treasures, or treasures in heaven? Are we slaves devoted to building the kingdom of this world, or are we seeking first the kingdom of God? We cannot even know where to begin unless we can see God's kingdom, which is the true meaning of being born again.

God in his sovereignty has provided the perfect means of testing whether we can make the distinction between the two kingdoms. Caesar has usurped God's authority, but his kingdom is built entirely with our consent and by using legal fictions. His authority over us is imaginary. We do not have to render ourselves to him unless we believe that we belong to him. Most people believe with all their heart that they do, for they cannot see the alternative. But if you know that you belong to God, along with your labor, your family, and everything else you have, then you will already have a deep-seated unease with the multitude of demands Caesar makes on you.

If this is the case, then make a list of those things that rightly belong to God but you have in ignorance given to Caesar. Then develop a plan of action for returning them to their rightful owner. This is not easy, but it is necessary. You will need to learn much more about God's law so that you can discern what true obedience requires of you. If you trust the State to provide for your needs rather than trusting God, it should be clear which master you are serving. As no man can serve two masters, you have a choice to make. Scripture is clear that obedience to God comes at a price, and we must first count the cost. But once you can see the eternal kingdom, you will realize that any price is worth it.

The kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field. (Mat 13:44)

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

Dear Brothers & Sisters,
I think there is a bit of conflict between how the question is phrased to begin with, and what the Author and Scripture intends to convey. One the question/topic "Is God in control of the government?" I would say the answer is no, but the question "Are those in Government given the authority by God?", and my answer would be yes. What one might be seeking is does what those in authority do/do not do have the approval of God for the all the things they do?

All you have to do to see the answer to this is those who were in authority from the OT - NT and know that there were many in authority who went against God's Laws given to them, and abused the authority given to them, as was shown by Jesus on more than one occasion. Who we should pay attention to, since as He said in Matthew 28:18 ..."All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth." Does this mean that God approves or dictated what all those in authority have done? Personally, I believe the authority of man in government has been given to them by our Lord, but what they do with it, is entirely up to them. Both to the good, and to the bad, of which like all of us, as will they, have to give account for.

To believers we should keep these verses in mind. As long as it doesn't conflict with what our Lord has told us to do. As was the case with Peter and John in Acts 4:19.

Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. Romans 13:1-2 NKJV

But Peter and John answered and said to them, "Whether it is right in the sight of God to listen to you more than to God, you judge. Acts 4:19 NKJV

I do have a feeling that this thread in one way or another will be moving in the direction/discussion of "Free Will".

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC

Nick
I would have to agree with what you said here. God does set them into place that sit in positions of authority. But again, does He set them into place arbitrarily, or does he set them into place according to mans will. For example...Justine Trudeau in Canada...He's a traitorous wretch who cares nothing for Canadians but worships the dictators of China. That creature is not good for Canada but the majority, mostly millenials voted for him. God installed him. So...God puts them in the position but what's His criteria for doing so? There is scriptural precedent for this. God installed Saul as king when the people demanded against Gods counsel.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Nick
I would have to agree with what you said here. God does set them into place that sit in positions of authority. But again, does He set them into place arbitrarily, or does he set them into place according to mans will. For example...Justine Trudeau in Canada...He's a traitorous wretch who cares nothing for Canadians but worships the dictators of China. That creature is not good for Canada but the majority, mostly millenials voted for him. God installed him. So...God puts them in the position but what's His criteria for doing so?

Dear Brother,
I believe I answered this in my post. God sets them in the position of authority, but what they do with said authority doesn't mean He approves of how they use it.
Plus, we too often fail to look at the Society as a whole, and that I truly believe that God gives it the authority that it deserves. Might it also not be a test by God, to see what believers are going to do? Are we going to still follow the will of God for what He has for our lives, or follow the World because of the pressures that fall upon us?

I do appreciate what the daughter of Billy Graham once said to interviewer who questioned her about where God was during the storm Katrina that occurred down in the southern part of the US. She, answered them by saying You removed prayer from schools, removed the 10 Commandments from the government. Our God is a gentleman and just moved out of the way to let you handle it.

I'm sure with everything that is happening in Canada, as far as preachers being imprisoned because of preaching on homosexuality and I'm sure other subjects, could very well be a test, and/or a confirmation that a Society that allows such things, is deserving of those who are in the authority He has given them. Normally, in the OT when something went wrong after the Nation turned against doing what God wanted them to do, and they were taken off to captivity. It wasn't until they turned back to Him, crying out to Him, repenting, that they were given relief. I don't see the Nation of Canada or the US calling out to Him in any great number! At least not yet! I truly hope and pray that more hearts are changed to do so!!!!

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

Dear Brother,
I believe I answered this in my post. God sets them in the position of authority, but what they do with said authority doesn't mean He approves of how they use it.
Plus, we too often fail to look at the Society as a whole, and that I truly believe that God gives it the authority that it deserves. Might it also not be a test by God, to see what believers are going to do? Are we going to still follow the will of God for what He has for our lives, or follow the World because of the pressures that fall upon us?

I do appreciate what the daughter of Billy Graham once said to interviewer who questioned her about where God was during the storm Katrina that occurred down in the southern part of the US. She, answered them by saying You removed prayer from schools, removed the 10 Commandments from the government. Our God is a gentleman and just moved out of the way to let you handle it.

I'm sure with everything that is happening in Canada, as far as preachers being imprisoned because of preaching on homosexuality and I'm sure other subjects, could very well be a test, and/or a confirmation that a Society that allows such things, is deserving of those who are in the authority He has given them. Normally, in the OT when something went wrong after the Nation turned against doing what God wanted them to do, and they were taken off to captivity. It wasn't until they turned back to Him, crying out to Him, repenting, that they were given relief. I don't see the Nation of Canada or the US calling out to Him in any great number! At least not yet! I truly hope and pray that more hearts are changed to do so!!!!

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

Nods and smiles

 

[Dave M]

I believe I answered this in my post. God sets them in the position of authority, but what they do with said authority doesn't mean He approves of how they use it.

This gets me thinking about Nebuchadnezzar and how God raised him up for his own purpose and that was to punish Israel. Was the king just a puppet, I dont think so, but God did seem to control the situation.

your thoughts anyone?

 

[Andyindauk]

Actually you just didn't. You did give me a verse that says All things work for good. For whom? To those who love God and who are The called according to His purpose FOR THEM The verse says God is working on behalf of those who love Him. Not that He is in contol in the Earth. Yes..In the future, when He sets Jesus on HIs throne on the Earth He will have control again Good try my friend Try again?

Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. Romans 13:1 NKJV

“O Lord God of our fathers, are You not God in heaven, and do You not rule over all the kingdoms of the nations, and in Your hand is there not power and might, so that no one is able to withstand You? II Chronicles 20:6 NKJV

“We give You thanks, O Lord God Almighty, The One who is and who was and who is to come, Because You have taken Your great power and reigned. Revelation 11:17 NKJV