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Is God One or is He Three?

anyone who does not believe that Jesus is God (the IAM) does not know him
Anyone who believes that Jesus is God (the I AM) does not know him.

(See how that works?)
Furthermore, they commit blasphemy.

Rhema
People who have three persons inside them either suffer from schizophrenia, or are possessed.
I'm not comfortable proclaiming that God is possessed.
 
You need to take all of your JW propaganda and burn it in a fireplace and then find a Church that is teaching the Gospel.
Curtis, with all due respect, given the time, I can show you that your Church is not teaching the Gospel.

But I can pull back on the rhetoric for now.

Rhema
 
Where did you come up with that one? (Seriously. I'm interested.)

I did a quick search on spirit and die, and only three unrelated verses popped up.

Within the Greek language, "you" are a psuche. You don't have one, you are one. But psuche isn't pneuma. It's most often translated "soul."

And the soul can die. It's not immortal.

Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life (PSUCHE - SOUL), what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?​
(Matthew 6:25 KJV)​
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul (PSUCHE): but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.​
(Matthew 10:28 KJV)​

Rhema
Evidently, you have not been reading all the posts.


Luk 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
Luk 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Whar part of Jesus went to paradise after his physical death on the cross? What about the thief?
 
JW garbage on full display. Yea, right the creator created himself.


2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
Curtis:

That's what you and all Trinitarians are claiming when you insist that Jesus, who scripture says was BEGOTTEN aka CREATED, is also God.

Alter2Ego
 
Anyone who believes that Jesus is God (the I AM) does not know him.

(See how that works?)
Furthermore, they commit blasphemy.

Rhema
People who have three persons inside them either suffer from schizophrenia, or are possessed.
I'm not comfortable proclaiming that God is possessed.
I see you are in the same boat as the other guy on this forum who also does not believe Jesus is God. Like Jesus said.......

Joh 8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
Joh 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
 
First and the Last:

John 1:1 has three independent clauses, as follows:

(1) In the beginning was the Word,
(2) and the word was with God,
(3) and the word was God.


Everything you posted above was debunked by the first clause where it says the Word had a beginning. According to Christendom's Trinity, the Word/Jesus Christ/the son is supposed to have always existed along with Jehovah the Father. John 1:1 contradicts that belief and exposes the third clause "and the word was God" as a deliberate manipulation of scripture. Below is how other Bibles correctly rendered that third clause.


The trinitarian translators deliberately capitalized the word "god" in order to promote the Trinity doctrine. They did that despite the fact the first clause within John 1:1 says the Word (Jesus) had a beginning. Therefore, the Word could not possibly be in a trinity with Jehovah the father. As all reading this thread can see, at least six Bibles correctly used lower case "god."


Alter2Ego
The discussion regarding the worship of Jesus and the interpretation of John 1:1 involves important theological considerations. In response to the assertion that John 1:1 undermines the doctrine of the eternal divinity of Jesus, it’s essential to understand the context and implications of the text. The verse reads, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” This passage reveals that Jesus, identified as the Word, exists from the beginning and shares the divine essence with God. The phrase “the Word was God” signifies that Jesus is fully divine and embodies the nature of God.

The argument that John 1:1 implies Jesus had a beginning is a misunderstanding of the text’s theological message. The phrase "In the beginning" refers to the commencement of creation and time, not to the origin of the Word’s divine nature. John’s Gospel emphasizes that Jesus is eternal and pre-existent with God. The variant translations you mentioned, which use “a god” or “a divine person,” are interpreted by some as attempts to align with particular doctrinal positions, but they do not reflect the broad, consistent testimony of the early church regarding the divinity of Christ.

The doctrine of the Godhead asserts that God is one, and Jesus is the full manifestation of that one God. Worshiping Jesus is not separate from worshiping the Father, but rather an acknowledgment of the complete revelation of God in Jesus Christ. The fullness of the Godhead dwells in Christ, as noted in Colossians 2:9, and worshiping Jesus aligns with honoring the Father, who is revealed through Him. Therefore, embracing Jesus’ divine identity and role in our salvation is fundamental, recognizing Him as the one true God who has fully revealed Himself in flesh for our redemption.
 
Curtis:

That's what you and all Trinitarians are claiming when you insist that Jesus, who scripture says was BEGOTTEN aka CREATED, is also God.

Alter2Ego
How can know what scripture means if you don't even know Jesus is God who is the Word that you think you know?
 
Curtis, with all due respect, given the time, I can show you that your Church is not teaching the Gospel.

But I can pull back on the rhetoric for now.

Rhema
My Church? It's not my Church it's the Church of the Lord Jesus Christ who is its head! You might want to talk to the "head" of the Church and see what he says.
 
Rhema:

I quote from many Bible translations, but the New World Translation--in my experience--the most accurate.
Kindly, your experience is too limited, and I'm not sure you have the qualifications to make that claim of accuracy.
Rhema:

I can't find any faults with the New World Translation and find it to be excellent and accurate. I've compared it with other Bible versions that I've read over the years, so I speak from experience. Of course, I don't expect you to agree with everything I believe since we obviously don't belong to the same religion.


Alter2Ego
 
How can know what scripture means if you don't even know Jesus is God who is the Word that you think you know?
Curtis:

Jesus never said he is God, and none of his First Century followers taught it. That ideology didn't show up in Christendom until the third century AD when the Roman Catholics dreamed it up. That was 300 years after Jesus left the earthly scene and returned to heaven.


Alter2Ego
 
Repeating yourself will not make you suddenly become correct. I previously showed you scripture that you have chosen to ignore because you can't give up your personal philosophy aka Trinity. See below the points I previously raised when you claimed Jesus is the fleshly version of God.

Numbers 23:19

"God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good? (Numbers 23:19 -- King James Version)
Numbers 23:19—"God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?"—is sometimes cited to argue that Jesus cannot be God in flesh because the verse emphasizes that God is not a man. In this passage, the phrase "the son of man" is used to contrast the immutable and trustworthy nature of God with human fallibility. It highlights that, unlike humans who may need to change or repent, God's promises and actions are unchanging and reliable.

However, when Jesus uses the title "Son of Man" in the New Testament, such as in Matthew 8:20 and John 3:13, He is adopting a term with deep theological significance, connecting to Old Testament prophecy, particularly Daniel 7:13-14. In this context, "Son of Man" signifies both His genuine humanity and His divine authority as the prophesied Messiah, who is given an everlasting kingdom. While, Numbers 23:19 uses "son of man" to emphasize human limitations and God's divine distinctiveness, Jesus’ use of the term highlights His unique role as both fully human and fully divine.

While Numbers 23:19 underscores the difference between divine and human nature, it does not negate the New Testament understanding of Jesus as God in flesh. Instead, it reinforces the consistency of God's character and the fulfillment of divine promises through Jesus, who embodies both the divine and human aspects of God’s redemptive plan.
Jesus' disciples of the First Century and many other people saw Jesus face to face. Jehovah told Moses at Exodus 33:20: "You cannot see my face, for no man can see me and live." If Jesus were God manifest in the flesh, everyone that saw his face would have died.
The claim that seeing Jesus face to face contradicts His identity as God manifest in the flesh based on Exodus 33:20, which states, "You cannot see my face, for no man can see me and live," requires careful theological consideration. In this verse, Jehovah is expressing the idea that His full, unmediated glory is beyond human capacity to endure. The context of Exodus 33:20 indicates that God's essence, in its absolute divine form, is too overwhelming for humans to behold directly without experiencing death.

In contrast, the New Testament presents Jesus as the incarnate Word, the fullness of God revealed in human form. In John 1:14, it is written, "And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us," indicating that Jesus, while fully divine, took on a human nature that allowed for His divine presence to be approachable and visible to people. The incarnation means that Jesus, in His earthly ministry, manifested God's divine nature through a human body, which was adapted to human perception and interaction.
 
Jesus literally died. Scripture says God cannot die.


Alter2Ego
You are too focused on the fact that I am saying Jesus is God in flesh. Not understanding that I believe He is also fully Human, which means He flesh died. But the fully God part of His nature always was and always will be.
 
Not only that, the NWT has restored God's personal name, Jehovah, to the hundreds of places where it appeared in the original writings. Other Bibles have removed the Divine name and replaced it with the titles God and Lord God, usually in all caps.

I know that is very important to you, but... historically, (as in centuries ago) it had been considered too arrogant to actually speak or use "God's personal name."
Rhema:

I had a similar discussion with some Jewish people at another website where they kept telling me what I've known for years: that there are no "J's" in Hebrew. What you and other Jewish people of today won't admit is that the disobedience of the ancient Israelites is what caused the correct pronunciation of the Divine name to be lost to history. The ancient Israelites refused to utter God's personal name for centuries, using the excuse that it was too holy to be uttered. If God did not want his name to be uttered, why did he go to the trouble of having the Tetragrammaton (which represents his name in Hebrew) written in the Bible hundreds of times?

The tetragrammaton - Esoteric Online


And why did Almighty God instruct Moses to tell the Egyptian Pharoah who was enslaving the ancient Israelites as follows:


Exodus 9:16

But for this very reason I have kept you in existence: to show you my power and to have my name declared in all the earth.

So, tell me, which name was to be declared in all the earth? The name that nobody knows the correct pronunciation of due to the negligence and outright disobedience of the ancient Israelites?

Jehovah's Witnesses do the best they can by using the name "Jehovah," because it's better than referring to the Almighty by the titles Lord, Lord God, or Adonai. Also, Jehovah is the most common accepted pronunciation of the Divine name.


Alter2Ego
 
Jesus never said he is God, and none of his First Century followers taught it. That ideology didn't show up in Christendom until the third century AD when the Roman Catholics dreamed it up. That was 300 years after Jesus left the earthly scene and returned to heaven.
John 20:28: “And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.” Thomas directly addresses Jesus as "My Lord and my God" after His resurrection.

Titus 2:13: “Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.” This verse refers to Jesus Christ as “the great God and our Saviour.”

Hebrews 1:8: “But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.” Here, God the Father calls the Son “God” and addresses His throne as eternal.

Romans 9:5: “Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen.” This verse refers to Christ as “God blessed forever.”
 
You are too focused on the fact that I am saying Jesus is God in flesh. Not understanding that I believe He is also fully Human, which means He flesh died. But the fully God part of His nature always was and always will be.
First and the Last:

Scripture says God is not a man. It also says he cannot die. If Jesus was the fleshly version of God, that would be a contradiction to the following scriptures that I'm now quoting to you for the fourth time.

Numbers 23:19

"God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good? (Numbers 23:19 -- King James Version)


Jesus' disciples of the First Century and many other people saw Jesus face to face. Jehovah told Moses at Exodus 33:20: "You cannot see my face, for no man can see me and live." If Jesus were God manifest in the flesh, everyone that saw his face would have died.


New Living Translation
"{13} And I charge you before God, who gives life to all, and before Christ Jesus, who gave a good testimony before Pontius Pilate, {14} that you obey this command without wavering. Then no one can find fault with you from now until our Lord Jesus Christ comes again. {15} For, At just the right time Christ will be revealed from heaven by the blessed and only almighty God, the King of all kings and Lord of all lords. {16} He alone can never die, and he lives in light so brilliant that no human can approach him. No human eye has ever seen him, nor ever will. All honor and power to him forever! Amen." (1 Timothy 6:13-16)


Read that a few more times and perhaps it will eventually sink in.


If you come back with the same argument, I will refer you back to these same scriptures each and every time.


The Bible doesn't contradict itself.


Alter2Ego
 
Charlie24:

Jesus would never have equated himself to the Almighty because he made it clear that he was created by the Almighty God, Jehovah.

Proverbs 8:22

Jehovah produced me as the beginning of his way, The earliest of his achievements of long ago.


Alter2Ego

LOL, this is a joke, right?
 
Curtis:

Jesus never said he is God, and none of his First Century followers taught it. That ideology didn't show up in Christendom until the third century AD when the Roman Catholics dreamed it up. That was 300 years after Jesus left the earthly scene and returned to heaven.


Alter2Ego
John 20:28: “And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.” Thomas directly addresses Jesus as "My Lord and my God" after His resurrection.
First and the Last:

John 20:28 is what Thomas said one single time. He didn't go around teaching that to other people. And you are ignoring the context at John 20:31 where the Bible reiterates that Jesus is the son of God. So obviously Thomas didn't have the final word and he was simply wrong.


English Standard Version
"but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name." (John 20:31)
 
John 20:28: “And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.” Thomas directly addresses Jesus as "My Lord and my God" after His resurrection.

Titus 2:13: “Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.” This verse refers to Jesus Christ as “the great God and our Saviour.”

Hebrews 1:8: “But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.” Here, God the Father calls the Son “God” and addresses His throne as eternal.

Romans 9:5: “Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen.” This verse refers to Christ as “God blessed forever.”

First and the Last:

Titus 2:13 where it uses the expression "the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ" is talking about two different spirit persons: "the great God" is Jehovah and "our Savior" is identified as Jesus Christ. But because you are reading the scripture with Trinitarian lenses, you've reached the conclusion (incorrectly) that "the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ" applies to Jesus alone. Earlier in that same Titus chapter 2 (context) it spoke only of God


Alter2Ego
 
Curtis:

Jesus never said he is God, and none of his First Century followers taught it. That ideology didn't show up in Christendom until the third century AD when the Roman Catholics dreamed it up. That was 300 years after Jesus left the earthly scene and returned to heaven.


Alter2Ego
The Bible in many places calls Jesus God, but you will never see it because you are not a believer. You can not see what you do not believe, even if it is right in front of your eyes. Jesus spoke of people like you........

John 9:39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.
John 9:40 And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?
John 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

If you were blind and did not see who Jesus claims to be, your eyes will be open to see.

If you say you see and not see who Jesus is you have been made blind and your sins remain.
 
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