Is God One or is He Three?

[Rhema]

Colossians 2:9 says, "For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily." This means that Jesus is not just some vessel for God's essence but fully God and fully man in one divine person.

No it doesn't.

For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,​

(Colossians 2:9 NRSV)​

Now I could tell you what that means, but you're pretty dug in on your view.

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

Colossians 1:15​

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;

Colossians 1:15 debunks the Trinitarian claim that Jesus the son has always existed along with Jehovah the father.

Hi Alter2Ego,

I can't believe I'm playing the context card here, but Paul has a way of using words to mean something specific to his teachings. Look again at your "debunking" verse.

Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every G2937:​

(Colossians 1:15 KJV~)​

So just what does Paul mean by G2937?

For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new G2937.​

(Galatians 6:15 KJV~)​

Within Paul's teachings, Jesus is indeed the first of the "new creation," because Paul is talking about the Resurrection of Jesus, and those who are born again.

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

Dear Member Alter2Ego,
Heresy! I'm sorry I will be banning you from Talk Jesus.

But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:
(Acts 24:14 KJV)





Nick, you kind of gave your word that this thread would be a safe place. (Or that's what I was led to believe by your earlier post.) Are things so bad that none of the members here can deal with viewpoints expressed by a JW ?

This is so disappointing in so many ways.

Rhema

​

 

[Rhema]

Well, these are some interesting things to know for some, I'm not a fan of history.

Your loss.

I'm only interested in the inspired Word of God.

If you mean the Bible, then you ought to say the Bible.
But if I'm not mistaken, you read translations.
Which out of necessity leads one to ask, are translations inspired?

I know who wrote the Scripture.

Which ones? The only scriptures you have are copies of copies of copies, and even scripture says that the scribes (the copyists) change things on purpose.

How can you say, "We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us," when, in fact, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie?​

(Jeremiah 8:8 NRSV)​

BUT... since this is getting way off OP, we can discuss this later if need be.

Blessings,
Rhema

 

[Charlie24]

Your loss.


If you mean the Bible, then you ought to say the Bible.
But if I'm not mistaken, you read translations.
Which out of necessity leads one to ask, are translations inspired?


Which ones? The only scriptures you have are copies of copies of copies, and even scripture says that the scribes (the copyists) change things on purpose.

How can you say, "We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us," when, in fact, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie?​

(Jeremiah 8:8 NRSV)​

BUT... since this is getting way off OP, we can discuss this later if need be.

Blessings,
Rhema

The Scripture (as Christ calls it) says that God places His Word above His name.

The difference in us seems to be that I'm trusting that God has kept His Word in tact for us to read exactly what He wanted us to read.

Just be careful which translation you read.

 

[Rhema]

So, please don't go telling me what I should say or not. It is rude.

You should have asked questions,

?????

But isn't that you telling me what I should say?

Nick, it's been decades since seminary. I just wanted to let you know that I haven't forgotten your post here, but it doesn't seem like you want a response. But I appreciate the references and shall check them out.

So far, I have been gracious to those who do not believe in the Trinity, or you'd be pecking away at your keyboard on another site.

Are such threats really necessary?
( @Br. Bear )

What's really going on here?

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

Just be careful which translation you read.

I don't read a translation, Charlie. I read the Greek directly.

As for Hebrew, I've switched several translations, and tend to quote the NRSV. But for important passages, I'll suss out the Hebrew on my own.

If things are really difficult, God will come and talk to me about it.

Blessings,
Rhema

The difference in us seems to be that I'm trusting that God has kept His Word in tact for us to read exactly what He wanted us to read.

Yeah, ... well ... that's a bit sus.

 

[Rhema]

Just be careful which translation you read.

Actually, those are very wise words. The NIV actually adds in words to change the meaning of the original texts.

Just wanted to say that,
Rhema

 

[Charlie24]

I don't read a translation, Charlie. I read the Greek directly.

As for Hebrew, I've switched several translations, and tend to quote the NRSV. But for important passages, I'll suss out the Hebrew on my own.

If things are really difficult, God will come and talk to me about it.

Blessings,
Rhema


Yeah, ... well ... that's a bit sus.

I'm a KJV only guy, never used another, in fact I'm lost when I read another. The KJV has key words that over the past 50 years I've looked up the Greek meaning and applied it to the context.

I've read the work of theologians and scholars on the harder to understand things.

I think I'm well rounded in the Scripture without being a Greek scholar, don't need to be.

 

[Charlie24]

I'm a KJV only guy, never used another, in fact I'm lost when I read another. The KJV has key words that over the past 50 years I've looked up the Greek meaning and applied it to the context.

I've read the work of theologians and scholars on the harder to understand things.

I think I'm well rounded in the Scripture without being a Greek scholar, don't need to be.

The Greek is like any other language, there are concepts to definitions. Many times the definition doesn't help, the flow of Scripture reveals the truth.

Understanding that flow speaks for itself.

 

[First and the Last]

No it doesn't.

For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,​

(Colossians 2:9 NRSV)​

Now I could tell you what that means, but you're pretty dug in on your view.

Rhema

I don't like the word Godhead anymore than you do. But it doesn't really change anything. I want you to explain what you think it means.

 

[Christ4Ever]

But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:
(Acts 24:14 KJV)





Nick, you kind of gave your word that this thread would be a safe place. (Or that's what I was led to believe by your earlier post.) Are things so bad that none of the members here can deal with viewpoints expressed by a JW ?

This is so disappointing in so many ways.

Rhema

​

Dear Rhema,
Operative words in what you wrote is "kind" and "safe place". There are limits to what is acceptable and what one would consider a safe place.

I recognize there was a bond of sorts between the two of you. Thus, if the disappointment is too great, you are welcome at any time to join him in embracing the newfound liberty to traverse the expanse of the rest of the internet. Just let me know, and I will endeavor to accommodate your wishes.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Christ4Ever]

?????

But isn't that you telling me what I should say?

Nick, it's been decades since seminary. I just wanted to let you know that I haven't forgotten your post here, but it doesn't seem like you want a response. But I appreciate the references and shall check them out.

You started it.

You made a statement of my position as if no one believes as I do. I provided you a couple of individuals in time past that do. Glad you will look into it and see that I am not alone in seeing a hierarchy, but again I did not come by this through man. The Holy Spirit was gracious to provide me with this understanding. \o/

Are such threats really necessary?
( @Br. Bear )

What's really going on here?

Rhema

;( I would have assumed you had a thicker skin, especially after attending seminary. The theological debates there must have been quite intense and impressive to witness. Sometimes, even to the extent of running out of dessert at times for you during mealtimes it carried on/over so! You also, have a tendency to poke the tiger as well in others. Not that this was an attempt on my part to return the favor. However, since it does seem that you must feel put upon, I must then apologize that my assumption was wrong.

Now why ask my fellow toiler Br. Bear something when I the "threatener", as you see it, is open to being asked directly? Not that I mind in truth.
However, so to not overly take the thread off course, you are welcome to Private Message (PM) me and add Br. Bear to it as well. To ensure transparency, I would like to remind everyone that I have been forthright in this and other threads regarding the subject of the Trinity/Anti-Trinitarian debate, emphasizing that the latter contradicts the Statement of Faith of Talk Jesus. Others can or could have told you this as well if it has caught you unawares, since I have had PM's with others about the subject matter of this thread.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[First and the Last]

You made a statement of my position as if no one believes as I do. I provided you a couple of individuals in time past that do. Glad you will look into it and see that I am not alone in seeing a hierarchy, but again I did not come by this through man. The Holy Spirit was gracious to provide me with this understanding.

I know quite a few through multiple forums that do. But we can also look at it this way:

Jesus, as God incarnate, operated within the limitations of humanity, demonstrating perfect obedience and submission to the divine will. This submission, seen in passages like John 5:19, does not suggest a lesser deity but rather highlights the relationship between Jesus' human nature and the indwelling Spirit of God. Scriptures consistently reveal one indivisible God who manifested Himself in the flesh as Jesus Christ. The unity and oneness of God preclude any hierarchical structure within His being, affirming the belief that Jesus is the full and complete revelation of the one true God.

 

[Christ4Ever]

I know quite a few through multiple forums that do. But we can also look at it this way:

Jesus, as God incarnate, operated within the limitations of humanity, demonstrating perfect obedience and submission to the divine will. This submission, seen in passages like John 5:19, does not suggest a lesser deity but rather highlights the relationship between Jesus' human nature and the indwelling Spirit of God. Scriptures consistently reveal one indivisible God who manifested Himself in the flesh as Jesus Christ. The unity and oneness of God preclude any hierarchical structure within His being, affirming the belief that Jesus is the full and complete revelation of the one true God.

If you believed in the Trinity, you would understand that it is not lesser.
Jesus is fully complete as you have said. Fully God, fully man. Hypostatic union.
As far as what you said that the "unity and oneness of God preclude any hierarchical structure within His being" would be true if you believe as you do in the Oneness of God, but it does exist in co-equal essence and co-eternal communion as the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[First and the Last]

co-equal

How do we get a Hierarchy

 

[Christ4Ever]

How do we get a Hierarchy

They each have different roles.
Not of rank, but of relationships!
Father, Son, Holy Spirit
You know what their relationship are to each other, and yet they are of the same essence and so co-equal.

The best analogy I guess not in a triune sort of way that I did not reason out but read about, has to do with the example of marriage. You have Headship of the husband and submission of the wife, while still having equality of each of them as individuals. A poor example but an easily understood one to my way of thinking. Which should be appreciated by anyone who is or has been married. At least for a believing one!!!

To be honest, I don't know if I could go any further in explaining it, without trying to create a box to put God into. I do feel it is human nature to do with just about anything they don't fully comprehend. Which I won't do. I'm sure there are others who might have gone further with it and could explain it better. In fact, with this little bit, I believe you are able to reason well enough from what I have read of what you've written here, that you might be able to go further with it than I have been able to. I will tell you that this was sufficient for me to understand how the hierarchy within the Trinity works.

I/we have eternity to know God without the impediments we now have to deal with, in this flesh (corrupted), and spirit (battles powers/principalities). I guess you can say that is what Eternity is for. To know God!!! \o/

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings Brothers,

Nearly every thread and discussion on the 'Trinity' gets to a place where trouble brews.

May I suggest extra prayer for patience and longsuffering, gentleness and grace?

Whether anyone agrees with the 'Trinity' or not, TalkJesus is for the Trinity. Please respect that.

Conversation is tolerated if it is godly interaction and helpful at that.

If one has something to share, either way, it ought be seasoned with kindness and love according to the love and kindness we were and have and are shown by God in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us [the ungodly].

Post in Peace, accept if others do not accept your submission and do everything to the glory of God with thanksgiving.


Jesus Christ is the Lord


Bless you ....><>

 

[Rhema]

We can define it and are subject to it.
God is not. He created Time.

I thought that some might enjoy the fact that time is an illusion.

(This 7 minute video is really, really, close.)

Rhema

 

[MedicBravo]

I thought that some might enjoy the fact that time is an illusion.

(This 7 minute video is really, really, close.)

Rhema

Time is NOT an illusion.