Is Heavy Metal Evil?

[JonahofAkron]

Hey:

Never considered you a jerk. Just a fellow Christian with an opinion like we all have. I try always to understand, to make a friend, and never ever say an unkind word deliberately or fuss. If I have to back up two steps to keep things calm I will back up three.
This is the internet and we are not face to face in discussion and one has to realize all things have many facts and none of us express them all perfectly in any situation.

There will come a time when your new spirit will show you right and wrong instantly. When you listen to this, it is always right.

Many things can and do cause influence in our lives, some good some bad, but most things associated with heavy metal music even though not always apparent to be bad, many times are. But as one person has said, he appreciates the discussion, but what is wrong with heavy metal in pure form in the worship to God. Nothing , nothing at all. In that form.

Music, drugs, drinking to excess, girls with short skirts and dancing eyes, you can sit in the midst of it all, just beware of allowing any of it to sit in your pocket.

I got a call last week about a stopped up drain in a bar. It was late at night and I could have made a couple hundred bucks to run the call, but you see, I have no desire to visit any bar for any reason, be it pleasure or profit and simply will not. When you enter you have to scream to be heard, the music is so loud, dancing girls play on poles, and the work is nasty and one feels like one needs to be sprayed with bug spray when one leaves.

In the form of truth and heavy metal in some forms, and in worship to God is cool.

Just grin if Kit asks for ear plugs.

Kit

I understand. Good call. I'll bring the plugs.

 

[Fraction]

I didn't say, nor was I implying that people (including you) "seek" violent movies because they like violence. I just questioned why someone would accept it in the first place.

Job (chap 31) talks about Job making a covenant with his eyes. It was about women but I think the concept can be applicable to other things, such as violence, immorality, etc. Don't you?

Are we making a covenant with violence and evil when we watch it? I don't know, just thinking out loud, some food for thought.
Also, would God say, "okay, you can watch that horribly violent movie because there are some good characters in it"?

I will not deny that the movie, "Unforgiven", starring Clint Eastwood and Gene Hackman, has awesome acting and other elements that won it several Oscars. But I will not watch it because of the gratuitous violence and filthy language, among other things, because I have made a covenant with my eyes not to revel in things that are not profitable to me.

If we as Christians are setting our minds on Christ, as we should, why would we participate in things that He would not approve of? It has to be for more than simplistic reasons like we like the sound of a band's guitars, or we like a certain actor in a movie, or similar.

I agree that a lot of movies have the types of plot lines you mention, But I'm not sure if we're talking about 2 different things or not in our perspective posts. So I am trying to ascertain by what criteria you decide whether something is good or bad.

Are you saying that because a movie has these elements you mentioned, or similar : "a hero that rises above fear and doubt, accepts courage, and conquer the bad guy", that it doesn't matter how much evil, violence or other unsavory aspects is in the movie?

I don't believe violence in a movie makes it "bad", unless it is gratuitous, mindless, senseless violence. An example would be the movie, "Hostel", which is about nothing more than people being tortured for other people's fun.
I am hoping that you would not think that movie would be okay to watch, just because there is a "good guy" who rescues one woman at the end of the movie. Do you see what I'm getting at?

Same goes for heavy metal music. To continue with my Motley Crue example (for convenience sake), no matter how much you may like the guitar riffs, the way Tommy Lee drums, or whatever in it, is there anything redeemable about their song, "Ba***rd"?, that nonchalantly and callously talks about murdering someone?

Perhaps the simple answer is, there are baby Christians and mature Christians, and they respond differently to the Holy Spirit? The Holy Spirit can be ignored if we choose to. If we are gratifying the flesh we can miss out on His words as well.

I haven't attacked any genre, let alone an entire one. I have attacked ungodly lifestyles, lyrics and attitudes of bands though. And as to your next comment, are you seriously suggesting that if we toss out ungodly metal bands that we should toss out Christianity as well?????
:shock:

You might want to rethink that assertion!

Well, from the satanic bands you mentioned, perhaps you have some grey areas rather than black and white views on it.

You mentioned liking the band, DEICIDE, of which their songs include many vehement anti-Christian themes, with blasphemous song titles that I can't even print here. Their drummer said, "The whole point of Satanic music is to blaspheme against the Church."

Now tell me please why you like this band? As long as the guitars sound cool, blasphemy is okay? As long as they play the style of music you like (fast, thumping, powerful, whatever), evil is okay?

There is no way the Holy Spirit is okay with you liking that band, and making the excuse you did, which is what it is my friend, an excuse, that the Holy Spirit guides Christians individually and differently, is just making a mockery out of the goodness of God.

Isaiah 5:20
Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.

The more we sin, the more reprobate our minds get. We either live by the flesh or by the Spirit. God will spit the lukewarm out of His mouth.

Yes, if we believe the satanic lie in Led Zeppelin's song, "Stairway to Heaven", that "there's still time to change the road you're on".

It sounds like maybe this is the reason you have no problem with satanic metal, evil movies, etc.? Because of grace you think you have a license to sin, or that sin is not a big deal?

That's a very dangerous attitude. The Apostle Paul admonished us not to think that because we are under grace that it means sin can abound.

Romans 6:15
What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means!

That's fine if you are not having trouble with this issue. Please remember though, that we should not trust our own judgment, we should trust God's.

Proverbs 14:12
There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death.

Nope, I'm not doing that. You asked a question to start this thread and I am answering it. What you do is between you and God, but on the other hand, we as Christians are to reprove one another if necessary, in the spirit of love.

Peace, brother and God be with you!

That's what this is about though, the judgement of people who watch these types of movies. People assume that they are evil people because they listen or watch something they do not approve of. Something that they cannot handle. When opinions are different, they usually clash. They clash harder when it comes to strong beliefs and views on subjects, religion being the top fought over topic in the world.

When I brought up the main characters or the heroes of a movie, I pointed out what they usually triumph over. I forgot to mention the fact that it is what we take from these movies. We can watch a violent movie, but after we have a choice. Will we go out and murder people? Try to rob a bank? How about the people that only single out the good in these movies, and use that good to better themselves? What about the person who takes joy in the downfall of the bad in a movie, and sides with the good elements of the hero? My point being is, it's what we take from the movies. It's what we take from all of the things around us everyday. Anyone can turn a negative, and take the good in that negative and use it to their own benefit. However, there are sometimes no good that can be taken from movies and music. That I can honestly agree with. Those we should stay away from. Movies and songs mean vastly different things to every single different person, no one is the same when it comes to personality.

Continuing to the Holy Spirit subject now. So you honestly think that the Holy Spirit guides every single Christian in the exact same way? Some people don't recognize it or ignore it or are confused about it? Seeing the pure fact that every Christian I have ever met never has 100% the exact same thing to say on every subject, I would beg to differ with that logic. Is it possible that the Holy Spirit will guide us depending on what God knows we can handle and how to get to us individually? This makes much more sense. Just because something works for you, doesn't mean it works the same way for everyone else. We are all one of a kind. This is simply my opinion and view though.

You missed my point on comparing Christianity and metal by a large distance. If we are to judge an entire genre of music and cast it out, why would we even be Christians? Christianity has it's dirty little secrets and horrible past in the hands of humanity. So if we are able to immediately refuse something that is some parts bad, some parts not bad, and some parts even Christian (christian heavy metal), it would make more sense to not be Christian at all. If we are to judge music, movies, or even people because of our past. we might want to take a look at the history of our faith as well. As Christians we know it was the choices of man who bend and twisted Christianity for power and personal gain in history and still to this day. We understand that it is the choices of humanity. So what is stopping us from making a choice in what to take from certain music that actually has something to take from it that is good?

I understand the process of downfall in Christianity. The further we are from God, the less we feel him, then we don't feel him at all, then we doubt the existence. It's a process that involves a many number of things. The ultimate goal is the same though, getting rid of faith. (not a positive thing btw) Everyone sins, or else there wouldn't be a need for faith. I understand the difference between sinning wildly without care, and sinning while understanding you're doing so.

You can't exactly single out a song here. I don't know what you think that song means, but it's obviously not the same as what I took from it. So we don't have time to switch roads we are on? We can't go from a non-belief to a belief in Jesus Christ? We can't change something bad about ourselves into something good? (ex. going from a smoker to a non-smoker) That's what I got from that song.

I don't have a problem with satanic music and movies. If it is satanic, it's obvious it's satanic. I don't listen or watch satanic things that glorify satan. Yes, I do believe in the "license to sin" concept. I don't think that I should go out sinning without care. I do know though, if I do sin or when I do, I know it doesn't change what Jesus Christ did 2000 years ago. I know it doesn't remove my faith and salvation. If it did, everyone would be in big trouble.

Like I said before, this is what I am comfortable with. This is my view and my opinion. I am not claiming that it is correct, or correct for other people. I just haven't had any challenges with it. When I come in contact with things that make me uncomfortable, I avoid it. I mean no disrespect or to challenge anyone here. I am also not directly challenging your logic or views Peace Seeker, but I am merely expressing my own. That is all.

 

[gdemoss]

I will set no wicked thing before mine eyes: I hate the work of them that turn aside; it shall not cleave to me (Psalm 103:3)

The above is God's opinion not mine. If there is any wicked thing in a movie, why then would you watch it knowing what God has said?

 

[Peace Seeker]

That's what this is about though, the judgement of people who watch these types of movies. People assume that they are evil people because they listen or watch something they do not approve of. Something that they cannot handle. When opinions are different, they usually clash. They clash harder when it comes to strong beliefs and views on subjects, religion being the top fought over topic in the world.

This is in no way, shape or form about me calling you evil. And I don't think we're clashing, do you really?
By all means, do what is best for you, I am not trying to put a stumbling block before you. Other than to tell you my opinion, with the mind of helping you to consider a viewpoint that you may not have. If you don't want my thoughts just tell me and I will not reply anymore.

Continuing to the Holy Spirit subject now. So you honestly think that the Holy Spirit guides every single Christian in the exact same way? Some people don't recognize it or ignore it or are confused about it? Seeing the pure fact that every Christian I have ever met never has 100% the exact same thing to say on every subject, I would beg to differ with that logic.

I think your questions contain some of the answers, plus I answered this before, when I said that if we are living by the flesh we will not as easily respond to the urgings of the Holy Spirit. This is why - to answer your question - Christians don't agree 100% on every subject. We are all at different stages in our walk with Christ, so I agree with you that the Holy Spirit knows what we can handle, and we are a work in progress with Him.

BUT, I wouldn't use the excuse that because I haven't been pricked with a conscience pang from the Spirit, like someone else may have, that that means what I am doing is okay. Like you said, you know right from wrong, and the scriptures tell us to examine ourselves so as to have a good conscience and to know if we are in the faith, etc.

Just because something works for you, doesn't mean it works the same way for everyone else. We are all one of a kind. This is simply my opinion and view though.

Then are you implying that different Christians should or do have different rules to follow, based on what the Holy Spirit does or doesn't say to each of us? Because it seems you are saying that although it may not be okay for me to listen to satanic metal (based on what the Holy Spirit has told me about it), it is okay for you to, because the Holy Spirit hasn't told you not to, and because it works for you. That works for you part sounds to me like that phrase, "if it feels good do it".

You missed my point on comparing Christianity and metal by a large distance.

I'm not so sure I did, but I am listening to your explanation again.

If we are to judge an entire genre of music and cast it out, why would we even be Christians?

Okay, I will say it as clear as I can. I am judging the entire genre of satanic metal. So that means I shouldn't be a Christian anymore??? That's absurd! How about if I judge pornography? Can I be a Christian and do that? If you don't like the word, "judge", how about I use the word, "discern"? Am I allowed to discern and test the spirits?

Why are you making such an idol out of metal, that you would actually defend it against Christianity? :shock:
Specifically about satanic metal, it is evil and there is nothing redeemable about it. And I don't believe any Christian should be listening to it. Sorry if the truth hurts, but you need to stop kidding yourself that the Holy Spirit teaches us different things about morality issues and the choices we need to make. If you really can't see that satanic metal is evil, then you need to do some praying about it.

I say again, I agree with you that the Spirit deals with each of us as individuals, but He doesn't teach error to one and truth to another! I will not accept that He would allow us to do things we shouldn't, without saying something about it. HE controls us, not we Him.

Christianity has it's dirty little secrets and horrible past in the hands of humanity. So if we are able to immediately refuse something that is some parts bad, some parts not bad, and some parts even Christian (christian heavy metal), it would make more sense to not be Christian at all. If we are to judge music, movies, or even people because of our past. we might want to take a look at the history of our faith as well.

Sounds like you have a big problem with Christianity! Where did that spirit come from? You are really missing the mark on this whole thing. You tell me if what I am taking from your statements is wrong. Your premise is : "because Christianity has it's dirty little secrets and horrible past, we have no right to judge anything, and therefore because Christianity has a bad past you are allowed to do what you want, listen to what you want, etc???

I understand the process of downfall in Christianity. The further we are from God, the less we feel him, then we don't feel him at all, then we doubt the existence. It's a process that involves a many number of things.

Yet you think that listening to satanic bands like Deicide will not affect you spiritually. You are sadly mistaken to think music is some weak little thing that does not affect us in powerful ways.

You can't exactly single out a song here. I don't know what you think that song means, but it's obviously not the same as what I took from it.

Obviously not. And I can't even post the lyrics here because they are so repulsive and I would probably get banned! You are in error and I am not going to tickle your ears and agree with you that such songs are okay for a Christian to listen to.

I will ask this again, why is metal such an idol to you, that the very idea of someone suggesting to you that it may not be good to listen to, brings up such defensiveness in you? To the point that you will even point a finger at Christianity to defend the music?

I don't have a problem with satanic music and movies. If it is satanic, it's obvious it's satanic. I don't listen or watch satanic things that glorify satan. Yes, I do believe in the "license to sin" concept. I don't think that I should go out sinning without care. I do know though, if I do sin or when I do, I know it doesn't change what Jesus Christ did 2000 years ago. I know it doesn't remove my faith and salvation. If it did, everyone would be in big trouble.

If you believe in the "license to sin" you need to read the book of Romans! And how do you know whether or not everyone is in big trouble?

Like I said before, this is what I am comfortable with.

"If it feels good, do it".

This is my view and my opinion. I am not claiming that it is correct, or correct for other people. I just haven't had any challenges with it.

Why can't you consider the possibility that the reason you haven't had any challenges with it is because you are doing your own thing and not willing to listen to and hear the Spirit? And that listening to Deicide and defending it will definitely draw you away from the Spirit.

I mean no disrespect or to challenge anyone here. I am also not directly challenging your logic or views Peace Seeker, but I am merely expressing my own. That is all.

I understand that and you need not remind me of this. And I suspect you will not like some of the things I have said because we differ so much on the issues discussed. I just ask that you consider what I've said, or even better, pray to God and ask Him what the right answer is. And be willing to listen if it's something you don't want to hear.

 

[Fraction]

This is in no way, shape or form about me calling you evil. And I don't think we're clashing, do you really?
By all means, do what is best for you, I am not trying to put a stumbling block before you. Other than to tell you my opinion, with the mind of helping you to consider a viewpoint that you may not have. If you don't want my thoughts just tell me and I will not reply anymore.

I think your questions contain some of the answers, plus I answered this before, when I said that if we are living by the flesh we will not as easily respond to the urgings of the Holy Spirit. This is why - to answer your question - Christians don't agree 100% on every subject. We are all at different stages in our walk with Christ, so I agree with you that the Holy Spirit knows what we can handle, and we are a work in progress with Him.

BUT, I wouldn't use the excuse that because I haven't been pricked with a conscience pang from the Spirit, like someone else may have, that that means what I am doing is okay. Like you said, you know right from wrong, and the scriptures tell us to examine ourselves so as to have a good conscience and to know if we are in the faith, etc.

Then are you implying that different Christians should or do have different rules to follow, based on what the Holy Spirit does or doesn't say to each of us? Because it seems you are saying that although it may not be okay for me to listen to satanic metal (based on what the Holy Spirit has told me about it), it is okay for you to, because the Holy Spirit hasn't told you not to, and because it works for you. That works for you part sounds to me like that phrase, "if it feels good do it".

I'm not so sure I did, but I am listening to your explanation again.

Okay, I will say it as clear as I can. I am judging the entire genre of satanic metal. So that means I shouldn't be a Christian anymore??? That's absurd! How about if I judge pornography? Can I be a Christian and do that? If you don't like the word, "judge", how about I use the word, "discern"? Am I allowed to discern and test the spirits?

Why are you making such an idol out of metal, that you would actually defend it against Christianity? :shock:
Specifically about satanic metal, it is evil and there is nothing redeemable about it. And I don't believe any Christian should be listening to it. Sorry if the truth hurts, but you need to stop kidding yourself that the Holy Spirit teaches us different things about morality issues and the choices we need to make. If you really can't see that satanic metal is evil, then you need to do some praying about it.

I say again, I agree with you that the Spirit deals with each of us as individuals, but He doesn't teach error to one and truth to another! I will not accept that He would allow us to do things we shouldn't, without saying something about it. HE controls us, not we Him.

Sounds like you have a big problem with Christianity! Where did that spirit come from? You are really missing the mark on this whole thing. You tell me if what I am taking from your statements is wrong. Your premise is : "because Christianity has it's dirty little secrets and horrible past, we have no right to judge anything, and therefore because Christianity has a bad past you are allowed to do what you want, listen to what you want, etc???

Yet you think that listening to satanic bands like Deicide will not affect you spiritually. You are sadly mistaken to think music is some weak little thing that does not affect us in powerful ways.

Obviously not. And I can't even post the lyrics here because they are so repulsive and I would probably get banned! You are in error and I am not going to tickle your ears and agree with you that such songs are okay for a Christian to listen to.

I will ask this again, why is metal such an idol to you, that the very idea of someone suggesting to you that it may not be good to listen to, brings up such defensiveness in you? To the point that you will even point a finger at Christianity to defend the music?

If you believe in the "license to sin" you need to read the book of Romans! And how do you know whether or not everyone is in big trouble?

"If it feels good, do it".

Why can't you consider the possibility that the reason you haven't had any challenges with it is because you are doing your own thing and not willing to listen to and hear the Spirit? And that listening to Deicide and defending it will definitely draw you away from the Spirit.

I understand that and you need not remind me of this. And I suspect you will not like some of the things I have said because we differ so much on the issues discussed. I just ask that you consider what I've said, or even better, pray to God and ask Him what the right answer is. And be willing to listen if it's something you don't want to hear.

Never said you were calling me evil, I still don't know where you got hat from. We are obviously clashing, you should check out the definitions for this word. (not meaning to be rude, but its nice to expand ones vocabulary) I understand where you're coming from, it's very good and healthy to discuss things with one another, especially something so important with an open mind.

Different stages of our walk with God? It doesn't exactly make sense to me. I understand that Christianity is an instant gift, but a changing process throughout our lives. There are some Christians who will never see the way that others do, while both claim the Holy Spirit has guided them 100%. One person could very well lead a homosexual lifestyle from the time they converted, to the time they die. The other person despises the sin of homosexuality, and will never ever convert from being a straight person to a homosexual. Both have strong faith in Jesus Christ, are they both not saved? How could the homosexual person be as equally happy as the non-homosexual Christian? The exact same comfort level? This has happened before, it will continue to happen, and it is happening as I type this. Different stages? Highly possible, and I am not saying your wrong. There just seems to be something missing in this theory for me is all.

I am not exactly implying that different Christians should have different rules. That would be like saying a certain Christian can go around murdering whoever they want because they can control it to some extent. I am saying that we all have different perspectives on things, one of the most popular being scripture. We all read the bible completely different, but we come together always on one thing: faith in Jesus Christ. However when it comes to various other topics in the bible, and topics in modern day that we sometimes can't exactly ask the bible about, we all react differently and on different levels. Some of us will despise something, some of us will not care, some of us will love it. Why would the phrase "if it feels good. do it" be bad? Your faith doesn't make you feel good? I wouldn't apply this to everything, but in some areas I am sure that it is perfectly fine.

You have lost the point again, in what is obvious for the sake of a dispute or a debate. "Satanic" metal, is obviously satanic and not a good thing for Christians to listen to. This is first grade bible study, which has been said over and over. Satanic, is bad. I am not talking about satanic heavy metal, because it is obvious that something satanic would be bad. I wouldn't defend something satanic over Christianity, that wouldn't be logical and would cancel each other out entirely. Metal isn't an idol to me, I don't see where you are getting this from either. "HE controls us, no we him" God controls no man, or it will cancel out free will. It would also mean that God himself forces people to believe in other religions like Islam. However, I do see where you are coming from. God makes the rules and laws, God urges us to not break these rules and laws, God guides us down certain paths in life and gives us knowledge.

Where did which spirit come from? The Holy Spirit is a gift from God to guide us. Our spirit is another gift from God, due to the fact that he is the creator. We do have a right to judge some things, but to immediately judge an ENTIRE genre of music (heavy metal, pop, alternative, rap, etc) because of one song in that genre would mean that we should take a closer look at the history of the religion we practice in the hands of humanity. I wouldn't go as far as say we are allowed to do anything we want, we can do that, but we would obviously be in the wrong. I was in no way using the fact that Christianity has a bloody past and even present as a way to excuse sin or evil. I am saying if someone is so quick to judge something so vast because of one single separate part that is wrong, then why would they even be a Christian. It would be a form of denial.

I never said listening to actual satanic music is alright, this has NEVER once been said by me.

Did we hear or research the same song? I see nothing in this song about anything evil. I mean, we obviously have taken different things from it which is okay, so I respect your opinion. Metal isn't an idol to me, you're making a false assumption here about me again. I am not defending metal, but humanity. I didn't point at Christianity, well true Christianity, I pointed at the people who abused it's power and control. Which is stated every single time when I brought this topic up. Please notice the "in the hands of humanity/humankind" parts.

Sorry to tell you, but if you believe in saved by grace through faith then the "license to sin" theory is obviously true. However I do not support sinning without care. Can we sin and still be saved? Yes, if we couldn't then none of us are saved or at least very very few are saved. Should we sin? No, of course not. Sin doesn't have a say over whether we have eternal life or not, God does. Sin has no control over that. Which is what I took from the gospel at least.

If it feels good to you, then do it. This is not any type of negative phrase, and needs to be treated as so. Christianity feels right to you, it feels good to you, you do it and believe in it.

I don't listen to Deicide, in fact I have never heard of them I don't think. If it's actual satanic music that worships satan, then I obviously would not listen to them. I also do consider that possibility, but you don't consider what I believe is a possibility. You are fixated on what you believe and could be blind in that belief for all I know. Which, mind you, isn't exactly a negative thing. I find that respectable.

I only remind you because I like to be clear on who I am and what I stand for, and even what I am trying to understand or learn. I don't repeat it because I think you have forgotten it or anything. I don't exactly dislike some of the things you say, but I do disagree with them in a healthy manner. I think arguments and debates are beyond pointless, but expressing oneself and learning is invaluable. I consider every word and look at it from my own perspective, I find most of the things you say to be valuable and reasonable despite my own opinions.

 

[JonahofAkron]

Metal is good. Satanic metal is bad.

 

[Peace Seeker]

We are obviously clashing, you should check out the definitions for this word. (not meaning to be rude, but its nice to expand ones vocabulary)

How nice that you're not meaning to be rude!! (or sarcastic either!)

One person could very well lead a homosexual lifestyle from the time they converted, to the time they die. The other person despises the sin of homosexuality, and will never ever convert from being a straight person to a homosexual. Both have strong faith in Jesus Christ, are they both not saved?

Lev 18:22-23 "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."

Lev 20:13 "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death."

1 Cor 6:9 "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals"

1 Tim 1:9-10 "realizing the fact that (civil) law is not made for a righteous man, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers"

Rom 1:26-27 "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error."

Why would the phrase "if it feels good do it" be bad? Your faith doesn't make you feel good? I wouldn't apply this to everything, but in some areas I am sure that it is perfectly fine.

Have you never heard that phrase before, and as such are unaware of it's context? It is not referring to faith but Godlessness. It's a worldly saying as an excuse to sin.

I don't listen to Deicide, in fact I have never heard of them I don't think.

Yes I now realize I was mistaken about that. It's another poster that mentioned he likes that band. Please accept my apology.

 

[Fraction]

How nice that you're not meaning to be rude!! (or sarcastic either!)

Lev 18:22-23 "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."

Lev 20:13 "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death."

1 Cor 6:9 "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals"

1 Tim 1:9-10 "realizing the fact that (civil) law is not made for a righteous man, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers"

Rom 1:26-27 "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error."

Have you never heard that phrase before, and as such are unaware of it's context? It is not referring to faith but Godlessness. It's a worldly saying as an excuse to sin.

Yes I now realize I was mistaken about that. It's another poster that mentioned he likes that band. Please accept my apology.

Don't worry, I wasn't being sarcastic either. I am just a person who believes that knowledge is power. Outside of faith, knowledge is humanities best tool. Since your misused the word, I figured you should look it up and clarify it's definition.

I know all the passages that talk about homosexuality. So you agree with a lot of Christians that say homosexuals can't be saved? They are going to hell? I find that strange, because in the actual Gospel of Jesus Christ salvation requires faith and not being a straight male or female. Seems a bit contradicting. HOWEVER, this is an entirely different topic that I should have never drug into this anyway. It should end right now. To be fair, I accept your scriptures and will do further investigation on it. Thank you very much.

I have heard of the phrase before, but it was usually applied to what made you happy in life. Choice of religion, profession, etc etc. Like "do what makes you happy/feels right", which is what I get a lot when college searching.

No worries about the confusion, it happens.

Due to the fact that our discussion has in my opinion gone on long enough, and taking up an entire topic isn't my thing, this all should stop now. We have bother clearly expressed ourselves. I just think that some pieces are off topic, and that it's long enough. Feel free to respond and know that I will read it, but will sadly not be responding.

 

[Halodude1717]

But why not? I'm christan, though i am not a heavy christian. music or more specificly matel is my life. try listening to stuff life "Demon hunter", one of the best christian metal bands out there. no offence bro but, what your saying is just plain arrogant. in a way i get it, but still. bands like behemoth is satanic music, but still it sounds sick. and i love it.

 

[james1523]

I will try and show how heavy metal music is contrary to Christianity by considering the person of God and our relationship with Him. Rather than me taking a religious or legalistic approach in which I would try to find some law, commandment, or rule in the Scriptures about music.

Starting with this verse:

1 Kings 19:11-13 12 And after the earthquake a fire; but the Lord was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice.

As 1 Kings 19:11-13 shows, there was a great display of God's power, the earthquake, the fire.. but the Lord was not in these things. The Lord came as a still small voice.

Please note the meaning of the words "still" and "small".

The characteristic nature of the Lord is still, small, calm, peaceful. Although He is all-powerful and can be violent, His true nature is one of meekness, quietness and humility.

The Lord values these same characteristics in His people:

1 Peter 3:4 "the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, .....is of great worth in God’s sight."

Listening to heavy music will, over time, condition your soul away from gentleness and quietness.

Heavy metal music itself does not display Godly characteristics of peace, harmony, contentment. Those who express heavy metal music are not doing it out of a peaceful and quiet spirit. Rather they express rage, anger, violence, loudness, boisterousness and pride.

Heavy metal is not a good testimony of the Lord to unbelievers. Suppose the Lord Jesus came to the crowd of people seeking his healing, shouting, screaming, being angry.. He would chase them all away!

Heavy metal is another tool of satan used to deceive the minds of believers by filling souls with harmonies, sounds and noises that drown out the voice of God who is the still small voice within. Classical music on the other hand, provides a calm pleasant atmosphere that encourages the voice of God to be heard.

Heavy metal music entertains your soul (mind and emotions), but it hinders ,rather than helps, your spiritual growth in the Lord.

The Lord's desire is for His characteristics of peace and quietness to be infused into your mind and emotions. If you have filled it with heavy metal music, there is no room for the Lord to grow in you. Spiritual growth in the Lord is important for full satisfaction in this life, full joy, full peace, contentment, and proper relationship with God and others (family, friends, colleagues), as well as full rewards in the next life.

So it is not about "don't listen to heavy metal music because it's evil, bad, wrong, or because there is some law or rule about it (I an unaware of any written rule against it, other than the law about not having any idols, which refers to anything which comes between us and God). It is about how heavy metal music is contrary to God's nature, and can hinder you being the person with the kind of nature that God wants you to be.

 

[PrayerWarr1or]

Yes @Halodude1717 I am arrogant at times. But I'd like to think that the fact that I do really care makes a big difference. Maybe you know somewhere logical that a Christian might have something to say in response to a statement above like "I am not a heavy Christian". I guess we might just not understand someone who fully believes in the existence of Jesus, but only partially likes him.
And I believe Christian heavy metal is awesome for the record. As for music with aggression in it, I think no matter the genre it is against God

 

[james1523]

I dare say that those who promote heavy metal music for the worship of God are out to enjoy themselves, not worship God.
Because the primary purpose of music is to worship God, the question we must ask is whether or not God is pleased with the "smoke" of aggression and anger rising up to the heavens.
If worship is about us, then we may do as we please.
But if worship is about God, we should check that God is pleased with our "sacrifice of praise" first, before we offer it.
I'm afraid that those who claim that God is pleased with heavy metal music, don't truly know Him. If we know a person, we get to know what they like and what they don't like, their characteristics and their nature and I don't think God likes heavy metal music, jazz, swing, R&B and any other tunes.
Thousands and thousands of songs and hymns have been written by some of the most Spirit-led godly men in history, such as Charles Wesley. And none of these hymns resemble anything like worldly music fashion of today.

 

[PrayerWarr1or]

I dare say that those who promote heavy metal music for the worship of God are out to enjoy themselves, not worship God.
Because the primary purpose of music is to worship God, the question we must ask is whether or not God is pleased with the "smoke" of aggression and anger rising up to the heavens.
If worship is about us, then we may do as we please.
But if worship is about God, we should check that God is pleased with our "sacrifice of praise" first, before we offer it.
I'm afraid that those who claim that God is pleased with heavy metal music, don't truly know Him. If we know a person, we get to know what they like and what they don't like, their characteristics and their nature and I don't think God likes heavy metal music, jazz, swing, R&B and any other tunes.
Thousands and thousands of songs and hymns have been written by some of the most Spirit-led godly men in history, such as Charles Wesley. And none of these hymns resemble anything like worldly music fashion of today.

I wonder where the line is drawn. I wonder about what God considers as sweet smelling praise all the time, but i've never considered the notion of what genres of music he finds acceptable. I personally believe that God sees deeper than that when it comes to someone praising him with music. I choose to believe that the lyrics someone sings and writes about is the biggest insider into their Christian state. And even then I know not to judge someone since I cant read their heart and mind like God can

 

[CuddleBunny282]

Stryper, a Christian glam metal band.

 

[james1523]

Heavy metal is not evil and not a sin, but it is worldly. This is not a matter of "right versus wrong", but "life versus death". In Jesus Christ is found life, in the world is found death. If listening to heavy metal gives life, then by all means listen to it. But if it brings death, then don't listen to it. It's that simple. Christians should pursue Jesus Christ because He is the life. Life is not found in any other person or thing, and particularly not in things of the world. God may use many things to bring us to Jesus, He may even use music, but don't make the mistake of thinking that it was the music that gave us life. Pursuing music will leave us spiritually dead, this is the situation of many Christian artists who end up in the world of music. They pursue the thing of the world and confuse it with the spiritual life. Entertainment of the soul does not give us life, life is only found in Jesus Christ and particularly by studying His Word.

 

[james1523]

I choose to believe that the lyrics someone sings and writes about is the biggest insider into their Christian state. And even then I know not to judge someone since I cant read their heart and mind like God can

Their manner of speech, dress, hairstyle, habits, and pursuits are also insights into their Christian state. And if these matters are reflecting the world, which they are in most cases (tight fitting black pants, long hair styles, tattoos and adornments etc) it indicates they are worldly Christians. A Christian interior but a worldly exterior is a confused person, yet to be transformed in the mind. Our goal should be to reflect Christ inwardly and outwardly, which is the essence of holiness and purity. No one buys a piece of fruit at the market that looks bad on the outside, because we know that the inside will be bad also. We are so careful about the outside appearance of fruit and vegetables, we need to start paying attention to the outward matters in our Christian life.

 

[PrayerWarr1or]

Their manner of speech, dress, hairstyle, habits, and pursuits are also insights into their Christian state. And if these matters are reflecting the world, which they are in most cases (tight fitting black pants, long hair styles, tattoos and adornments etc) it indicates they are worldly Christians. A Christian interior but a worldly exterior is a confused person, yet to be transformed in the mind. Our goal should be to reflect Christ inwardly and outwardly, which is the essence of holiness and purity. No one buys a piece of fruit at the market that looks bad on the outside, because we know that the inside will be bad also. We are so careful about the outside appearance of fruit and vegetables, we need to start paying attention to the outward matters in our Christian life.

I definitely agree that its whats on the outside that counts as much as whats on the inside, in a sense that every Christian needs to act as Jesus would command us. If there is a Christian heavy metal band that performs, and then binges on alcohol and heroin parties, their actions betray their music and their faith. If the same band went to spend time with orphans after a concert, well, that's what I would expect from a Christian with high resources.

 

[icthus]

LISTEN HERE TO ALL U HEAVY METAL HATERS! IF IT WERE NOT FOR MY FAVORITE HEAVY METAL CHRISTIAN ROCK BAND WOULD HAVE NEVER GOTTEN THROUGH THE HARDEST TIME OF MY LIFE! AND ANYONE WHO THINKS HEAVY METAL IS WRONG THEN SAY THAT TO MY FACE! sorry i am pretty defensive about this topic cause i need to prove to my entire church staff that tfk is not a bad band

 

[conor]

Boy, am I late to this party or what...anyway, I love metal. Like the really bad stuff, I have had people tell me that I'm going to he'll after they hear what I'm listening to. I understand not all metal has a great message in it, I have ADD. Metal helps me focus and keep calm, ironic right? Music is my entire life, love it, almost all of it minus the Crap on the radio. Metal is only as bad as people make it out to be, these people are usually close minded. Sorry if that offends you but it's true. Bands like deeds of flesh, decide, and devildriver are some really nasty bands...regardless of the lyrical value the song is a great song. Then you have bands like demon hunter which is a Christian metal band, one of my personal favorites.

 

[rag4aCrown]

Reply to the OP
Greetings in the Lord
If it (doesn't matter what it is) anyway, if it is not exalting God, best to leave (it) alone. Amen