Is it right to criticize a man of God?

[ThatGuy]

Try quoting his entire response instead of picking what you want. That's called honesty and decency. I've watched Osteen's show many times, so don't assume I'm lacking knowledge. You obviously have no idea what your saying when you assume people here have not watched him at all. If they did or did not, how on earth do you even have the audacity to assume such a thing? Do you have proof? No. Just a cheap shot in the dark assumption.

He's being honest. He said he believes what the Bible says. He's talking with Larry King, well known for being a cornering interrogator. Clearly, you do not know this now do you? He very likely made Osteen a little uncomfortable. I see all his guests that way. In response to Osteen's response, he explained what he means. You took his wording out of context. You even only quoted the first sentence. The man said the right thing. He mentioned his visit to India as an example. He's talking about their sincerity. The people are lost, so they are not "wrong" in the sense they purposely reject Christ. That is clearly what Osteen is speaking about. They may be lost, but they sincerely believe in GOD.

They are deceived if they do not believe in the real Jesus, as the real GOD. Does them being deceived and lost make them "wrong"? No! Osteen is being careful in speaking out of love, yet Scripturally sound. He is not swaying around, but being careful to speak what is gentle and loving while truthful. What if he came out with a response such as "if you reject Christ you'll burn in hell forever"? Guess what? This is true, BUT this is not the proper approach to preaching to the lost souls. There is a right time for the right words. This is why we need the Holy Spirit to guide us.

Anyway, stick to the topic. Perhaps if Christians spent more time looking at Jesus, welcoming the Holy Spirit to guide them and praying for others instead of pointing fingers, things just might be better than they are.

Actually, if you watched the interview, Larry King was trying as hard as he could to squeeze the gospel out of Olsteen. Why is that? Because even Larry King who is not saved knows he is a false teacher. Joel Olsteen in currently the most popular "preacher" in America, his church is a former basketball auditorium that can fit up to 60,000 people. This guy had a chance to preach to literally millions of unsaved sould on Larry King, but he blew it, and for what? The same gospel that many Christians follow, this "well God wouldn't send anyone to hell, God just loves us too much" gospel. That is not what my bible says. I'm not attacking you personally brother I'm trying to expose Mr. Smiley for the truth, he is NOT a man of God. Since you brought up excerpts from the interview, so will I.

KING: But you’re not fire and brimstone, right? You’re not pound the decks and hell and damnation?

OSTEEN: No. That’s not me. It’s never been me. I’ve always been an encourager at heart. And when I took over from my father, he came from the Southern Baptist background, and back 40-50 years ago, there was a lot more of that. But, you know, I just—I don’t believe in that. I don’t believe—maybe it was for a time. But I don’t have it in my heart to condemn people. I’m there to encourage them. I see myself more as a coach, as a motivator to help them experience the life God has for us.

KING: Do you share Billy’s beliefs of life after death in a sense of going somewhere?

OSTEEN: I do, I do. We probably agree on 99 percent. I do. I believe there’s a heaven you know. Afterwards, there’s, you know, a place called hell. And I believe it’s when we have a relationship with God and his son Jesus and that’s what the Bible teaches us. I believe it.

[Where is the gospel in this quote? It's like the guy is allergic to saying hell, well I kinda you know sorta maybe maybe not believe people go to hell. What a joke. How come he didn't say if you don't have Jesus you are going to hell?]


KING: Because we’ve had ministers on who said, your record don’t count. You either believe in Christ or you don’t. If you believe in Christ, you are, you are going to heaven. And if you don’t, no matter what you’ve done in your life, you ain’t.

OSTEEN: Yeah, I don’t know. There’s probably a balance between. I believe you have to know Christ. But I think that if you know Christ, if you’re a believer in God, you’re going to have some good works. I think it’s a cop-out to say I’m a Christian but I don’t ever do anything . . .

[Here Larry King is leterally trying as hard as he can to squeeze the gospel out of Olsteen....still nothing.]


KING: What if you’re Jewish or Muslim, you don’t accept Christ at all?

OSTEEN: You know, I’m very careful about saying who would and wouldn’t go to heaven. I don’t know . . .


There's your proof.

 

[Chad]

Fair enough ThatGuy. You made your point and I understand where your coming from. I don't think Osteen is purposely trying to avoid the word hell. I think he is just being careful not to push away the lost souls who would listen in the first place. He also says he does not condemn. That is Scriptural. It is wrong for us to condemn anyone. Jesus did not condemn either and He said it Himself.

John 3:17
For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

Let me point out something very important here. I believe GOD uses Osteen as a great tool. He attracts many thousands (Jesus did too). Now, the audience (specifically the unsaved, yet) are attracted to what Osteen preaches and guess what? They will obviously become interested in reading the Holy Bible. Osteen says great things about Jesus, about GOD in general. They are truthful.

I certainly admit he does not emphasize preaching of sin/repentance, but does that undermine those who become interested in reading the Word? They will obviously find out right away that they must repent. Its all over the Word, OT and NT.

See now? It makes perfect sense. You keep mentioning that he attracts X amount of people. So what? What's the point? How is the number of audience right or wrong? Makes no sense evening mentioning it.

Talk Jesus attracts about 500 unique visitors a day and holds nearly 10,000 members. Does it make TJ suspicious? If the site drew in 20,000 members a day, would it change its honesty and preaching to be Scriptural or not? No.

To say "he blew it" is wrong. Your accusing him of something more based on your opinion. Let me ask you, did the Holy Spirit positively confirm to YOU that Osteen is a false teacher and "he blew it" on Larry King or are you merely going by your own heart?

 

[Maureen]

Did any of you watch the 'Baby Bible Bashers' on TV that was the title
we had it here last night?
it was about 3 children all who preached the Gospel.
2 were American, 1 black boy age 9, 1 white boy age 7 and a Brazilian girl she was preaching from very young.

I'll wait to see if any of you know what I'm talking about before discussing it.
No point if no-one knows what I'm speaking about.

I know they're not Men of the Gospel, but supposedly Children of the Gospel.

Let me know.

 

[Chad]

I didn't see it sister, but I'm curious to what its about. I look forward to your update about this. I won't even look it up on youtube or anything else.

 

[rizen1]

I've seen them on youtube.

I dont see anything wrong with kids talking about hell.....even if its a show we as humans have no right to judge or condemn them.

The world is giving these kids bad reviews because they dont want a child telling them what to do, calling them fanatics, some say the parents are being abusive.

What they are trying to do is find some "disturbing truth behind child evangelism "..Reality Check the director Amelia Hann is she a Christian ?????

I praise God if kids at 7yrs want to spread the gospel.
I praise God if Kids want to stand outside of Abortion clinics with their parents.

The documentary was made to make fun of Christianity and their " brainwashing ways " .
Director Amelia Hann vision was to show the disruptive side of kids evangelist. Not all kids who spread the gospel or go out witnessing with their parents or church act extreme as these kids. The Motives of this film is very questionable.

These are kids not adults they have alot more in life to learn to become Men and Women of God.

It would be interesting..but " bible baby bashers" can not be used as the source because the documentary was not Christian based but from a worldly point of view.

award-winning filmmaker Amelia Hann considers the lives of these kids, whom their parents all say have been touched by God, though others might consider them exploited, brainwashed by their parents'fanatical beliefs.

Yes hell and sin is fanatical beliefs according to the director.

Sister Maureen..I think " Child evangalist " deserves its own thread, great topic for us to take in.
I look forward to reading what you have to say.:sure::happy:

 

[stephen]

I didn't see it sister, but I'm curious to what its about. I look forward to your update about this. I won't even look it up on youtube or anything else.

I chose not to watch this programme.

I was aware of it. But I am also aware that the godless media latch on to such to discredit Christian faith.

 

[Richie]

Dear Friends,

I think it is better not to discuss about the preachers and judge them if their program is good or not, because if we raise the topic about a certain preacher, some of you may like him, but some of you may not. Eventually it may lead to unnecessary discussions which will obviously not produce a fruitful result, but instead of pointing out at some preachers and starting the discussion (obviously leading to tearing arguments) it is better to point out at ourselves:

1) Where do we tend to fall down spiritually because of talking about other preachers (pointing out at them)?

2) In what way should we be careful in order to keep ourselves away from this gossip?

One thing we should remember, "Pointing out at other preachers will not benefit us in any way?"

One more point that I want to make is, "There are certain preachers who criticize other preachers and point out at them." They do this because of:

1) Jealousy
2) Inferiority complex which is appearing to be superiority complex
3) To divert the attention of the people at Church.
4) Ultimately to defame the pastor they criticized.

Criticism is obviously not of God, it is from Satan. Criticism arises mainly because of lack of love. If you don't have love, how can you call yourself a Christian? If this is the case, in God's eyes, "Your a liar.".

This is what, I wanted to share with you.

God bless you.

 

[ThatGuy]

Fair enough ThatGuy. You made your point and I understand where your coming from. I don't think Osteen is purposely trying to avoid the word hell. I think he is just being careful not to push away the lost souls who would listen in the first place. He also says he does not condemn. That is Scriptural. It is wrong for us to condemn anyone. Jesus did not condemn either and He said it Himself.

Push away lost souls? Telling the TRUTH is pushing away lost souls? Didn't Jesus say "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."? Brother I respect you but candy coating the gopel never saved anyone, I can tell you by my own personal testimony that the reason I got saved was a because someone was honest enough to tell me I was going to hell if I died. The problem is political correctness in the the church, we need less of that and more of the truth, and do you know what the truth is? Please answer this question for me, and be honest from your heart. If someone dies without knowing Jesus Christ, will they make heaven their home?

For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

Let me point out something very important here. I believe GOD uses Osteen as a great tool. He attracts many thousands (Jesus did too). Now, the audience (specifically the unsaved, yet) are attracted to what Osteen preaches and guess what? They will obviously become interested in reading the Holy Bible. Osteen says great things about Jesus, about GOD in general. They are truthful.

I certainly admit he does not emphasize preaching of sin/repentance, but does that undermine those who become interested in reading the Word? They will obviously find out right away that they must repent. Its all over the Word, OT and NT.

See now? It makes perfect sense. You keep mentioning that he attracts X amount of people. So what? What's the point? How is the number of audience right or wrong? Makes no sense evening mentioning it.

Talk Jesus attracts about 500 unique visitors a day and holds nearly 10,000 members. Does it make TJ suspicious? If the site drew in 20,000 members a day, would it change its honesty and preaching to be Scriptural or not? No.

To say "he blew it" is wrong. Your accusing him of something more based on your opinion. Let me ask you, did the Holy Spirit positively confirm to YOU that Osteen is a false teacher and "he blew it" on Larry King or are you merely going by your own heart?

You know why the people are attracted to Olsteen?

2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

This is an end times prophesy, that in the last days (you know the days we are living in now), people will forsake the true gospel, and follow after their own lusts. Now let me ask you another question, and again I ask you to be honest. Do you really believe that the 30,000 people in Joel Olsteen's church are all saved born again believers in Jesus Christ? Of course not. Do you know why? This phenomenon even happened in the days of Jeremiah and other old testament prophets, the gullible masses would be fooled by slick false prophets, who would prophesy in the name of God, and speak things from their own wicked hearts that the people would automatically assume were true because well, this guy is successful, look how good he looks! He MUST be a true prophet! Don't believe me? Read these scriptures please.

Jeremiah 23:16-18 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD.

17They say still unto them that despise me, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you.

18For who hath stood in the counsel of the LORD, and hath perceived and heard his word? who hath marked his word, and heard it?


Hmmm, pretty interesting eh? So here are these false teachers telling everyone that God will not judge them, sound familiar at all Chad? I'll just leave my post here and I'll let you make up your own mind. I'll be looking forward to your response.

 

[Chad]

Please answer this question for me, and be honest from your heart. If someone dies without knowing Jesus Christ, will they make Heaven their home?

You have to be kidding me asking me this question. Is this sarcasm at its highest point? Your on my website. Read the statement of faith. Try swallowing your sarcasm and insults and keep them to yourself. I know for a fact Jesus is the only way to Heaven so please refrain from sarcasm. If sarcasm was not intended, it was still a lame question to ask an administrator of a website like this. Did you read the motto as well?

I'm not going to continue this debate of yours. You made up your mind, I made up mine as well. I did say to stick to the topic, you obviously did not listen. The topic is about whether or not we should criticize a man of GOD. The topic is not about you bashing Joel Osteen.

I'd like to know what you've done so great to glorify GOD and what credentials you have to speak so loud brother.

Do you really believe that the 30,000 people in Joel Olsteen's church are all saved born again believers in Jesus Christ? Of course not.

Who gave you the right to assume who is or who is not saved? Your a sinner, your not GOD so you have no right at all to assume such a thing. That's none of your business to make such a bold claim. Its also irrelevant to this thread's OP as well.

To finalize my statement on Osteen, my issue with him is that he does not speak enough about repentance. The rest is Scriptural and I'm on Scripture to know that I'm not in the know of others' hearts and their saved or not saved status to judge them. I'm also aware I have no right to condemn, so I will not.

I'm not going to respond to you about Osteen any more. Stick to the OP of this thread please.

 

[Richie]

Push away lost souls? Telling the TRUTH is pushing away lost souls? Didn't Jesus say "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."? Brother I respect you but candy coating the gopel never saved anyone, I can tell you by my own personal testimony that the reason I got saved was a because someone was honest enough to tell me I was going to hell if I died. The problem is political correctness in the the church, we need less of that and more of the truth, and do you know what the truth is? Please answer this question for me, and be honest from your heart. If someone dies without knowing Jesus Christ, will they make heaven their home?



You know why the people are attracted to Olsteen?

2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

This is an end times prophesy, that in the last days (you know the days we are living in now), people will forsake the true gospel, and follow after their own lusts. Now let me ask you another question, and again I ask you to be honest. Do you really believe that the 30,000 people in Joel Olsteen's church are all saved born again believers in Jesus Christ? Of course not. Do you know why? This phenomenon even happened in the days of Jeremiah and other old testament prophets, the gullible masses would be fooled by slick false prophets, who would prophesy in the name of God, and speak things from their own wicked hearts that the people would automatically assume were true because well, this guy is successful, look how good he looks! He MUST be a true prophet! Don't believe me? Read these scriptures please.

Jeremiah 23:16-18 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD.

17They say still unto them that despise me, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you.

18For who hath stood in the counsel of the LORD, and hath perceived and heard his word? who hath marked his word, and heard it?


Hmmm, pretty interesting eh? So here are these false teachers telling everyone that God will not judge them, sound familiar at all Chad? I'll just leave my post here and I'll let you make up your own mind. I'll be looking forward to your response.

Dear Brother,

Didn't I not tell you not to raise discussions about a pastor and try to judge him? Atleast see what I posted in this post:

Dear Friends,

I think it is better not to discuss about the preachers and judge them if their program is good or not, because if we raise the topic about a certain preacher, some of you may like him, but some of you may not. Eventually it may lead to unnecessary discussions which will obviously not produce a fruitful result, but instead of pointing out at some preachers and starting the discussion (obviously leading to tearing arguments) it is better to point out at ourselves:

1) Where do we tend to fall down spiritually because of talking about other preachers (pointing out at them)?

2) In what way should we be careful in order to keep ourselves away from this gossip?

One thing we should remember, "Pointing out at other preachers will not benefit us in any way?"

One more point that I want to make is, "There are certain preachers who criticize other preachers and point out at them." They do this because of:

1) Jealousy
2) Inferiority complex which is appearing to be superiority complex
3) To divert the attention of the people at Church.
4) Ultimately to defame the pastor they criticized.

Criticism is obviously not of God, it is from Satan. Criticism arises mainly because of lack of love. If you don't have love, how can you call yourself a Christian? If this is the case, in God's eyes, "Your a liar.".

This is what, I wanted to share with you.

God bless you.

Who are you to criticize Joel Osteen? Are you better than him? He is also a man like you. The bible is very clear on this matter of criticizing others:

James 4:11-12:

Verse 11: Don’t speak evil against each other, my dear brothers and sisters. If you criticize each other and condemn each other, then you are criticizing and condemning God’s Law. But you are not a judge who can decide whether the law is right or wrong. Your Job is to obey it.

Verse 12: God alone, who made the law, can rightly judge among us. He alone has the power to save or to destroy. Who are you to Judge one another?

Even the angels of God didn't dare to accuse Satan, but instead they said, "The Lord Rebuke you.", while on the contrary we criticize, accuse and judge the Lord's servants.

Jude 1:8-9:

Verse 8: Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

Verse 9: Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

So please don't raise the discussion about other preachers. I will certainly not reply to any of your posts that criticize other preachers, but I will only ask you one question, "Are you better than him/her you criticised?, Who are you to point out at them?"

Remember, when a man of God dies, he is not answerable to you that you have to point out at him and magnify his faults, he is answerable to God.

God bless you.

 

[Maureen]

not sure were to place this new thread on these kids 'Baby Bible Bashers' any ideas?
under which topic heading?

Thank you

 

[Chad]

Sister Maureen, Ethics & Morality should be fine.

 

[Maureen]

Oh Chad your gonna bust me
I've placed it under polls but didn't do a poll for it didn't think it required it.

Perhaps you can move it Chad, if it's not too much trouble.

Leave it to me.

 

[Chad]

LOL. That's alright sister. Polls is fine.

PM me the poll questions you'd like and I'll add them myself.

 

[Singlemom]

Keep the unity of the Spirit............

............Through the bond of peace.


I say that before I start this post.......talking about this is like opening a can of worms..........ay, ay, ay!!!

I have given my comments on J.Osteen before and received negative, almost hostile feedback.

But am posting about this subject once again, in order to give balance to the subject at hand.

I should say that I feel the same about the scam con-artist evangelical pastors we see on t.v and everyone knows they are scamming the people.

When they say, sow your seed faith.....give $100 or other larger pre-decided upon amount (set by their ministry) and you will get what you are asking for (deliverance)

And then when you don't get it, they say it was because you did not have enough faith! (faith as small as a mustard seed is what Jesus said was needed)

We hear about people like Tammy Faye and her husband who are openly discredited and it should break our hearts.

It discredits the Precious Name of Jesus, when someone who calls themselves Brothers or Sisters does such things.

Come on! Let us agree to disagree, but at least consider that what is being said, God can teach and lead through. I personally agree with ThatGuy...........but I still love to fellowship with believers, because we have the most important Matter in common!

Jesus, His death, burial, and resurrection. We all can agree on this I hope.

 

[Singlemom]

removal of post?

I thought I added a second post here, did someone remove it?

 

[Richie]

............Through the bond of peace.


I say that before I start this post.......talking about this is like opening a can of worms..........ay, ay, ay!!!

I have given my comments on J.Osteen before and received negative, almost hostile feedback.

But am posting about this subject once again, in order to give balance to the subject at hand.

I should say that I feel the same about the scam con-artist evangelical pastors we see on t.v and everyone knows they are scamming the people.

When they say, sow your seed faith.....give $100 or other larger pre-decided upon amount (set by their ministry) and you will get what you are asking for (deliverance)

And then when you don't get it, they say it was because you did not have enough faith! (faith as small as a mustard seed is what Jesus said was needed)

We hear about people like Tammy Faye and her husband who are openly discredited and it should break our hearts.

It discredits the Precious Name of Jesus, when someone who calls themselves Brothers or Sisters does such things.

Come on! Let us agree to disagree, but at least consider that what is being said, God can teach and lead through. I personally agree with ThatGuy...........but I still love to fellowship with believers, because we have the most important Matter in common!

Jesus, His death, burial, and resurrection. We all can agree on this I hope.

Dear Sister,

All I can say is, the preachers need money to do God's work, help the poor, feed the hungry, clothe the naked, spread the Gospel. When they say give and it shall be given unto you, you need not receive it in the form of money, you can receive it in any form (mostly spiritually because we are supporting God's work). In such kind of cases God looks after our finances and blesses us the whole month.

I have experienced it. My father is a covenant partner of Benny Hinn Ministries. We send our donations to Benny Hinn ministries every month because of the idea that God's work is being done. Whenever we don't send the money to Pastor Benny Hinn, we struggle a lot to manage the whole month financially, but when we send the money to pastor Benny Hinn, the entire month goes on well and confortable.

This is what my family has experienced over the years.

Remember, whenever you give to a pastor who is doing God's work, you are actually supporting God's work and so God blesses you because He sees with what intention you have given the money.

As far as this post is concerned:

I thought I added a second post here, did someone remove it?

I just don't know what happened to what you posted, so I think it is better that you post it again.

God bless you.

 

[Singlemom]

With all due respect, this is only your opinion. God knows your heart. But this does not validate the wolves in lambs clothing that the Bible talks about.

Nor does it invalidate the careful research and Bible exposition that godly men, like Hank Hannegraff, for one of the many good Bible expositors. Hanks study of the Bible and exposition can be found at
(edited by LLJ)

I think that Christianity can and will be divided on this topic. Please allow me to point out my thought on this as I will allow you yours.

I can guarantee you that there are alot of godly people who are sending their money to the pastors in the private jets, luxurious hotels, trips, cars, etc.

Sorry, God/Jesus was an itinerant preacher...

The Bible is also clear on this subject. But thank you for your kind approach and thoughts.

But I never said that giving money to godly Pastors is wrong....I meant the scamming self-serving wolves in sheep clothing

 

[jiggyfly]

I thought I added a second post here, did someone remove it?

I read your post from Hank, maybe it was moved to another thread. Maybe you could try a search for it.

 

[Richie]

With all due respect, this is only your opinion. God knows your heart. But this does not validate the wolves in lambs clothing that the Bible talks about.

Nor does it invalidate the careful research and Bible exposition that godly men, like Hank Hannegraff, for one of the many good Bible expositors. Hanks study of the Bible and exposition can be found at bibleanswerman.org institute

I think that Christianity can and will be divided on this topic. Please allow me to point out my thought on this as I will allow you yours.

I can guarantee you that there are alot of godly people who are sending their money to the pastors in the private jets, luxurious hotels, trips, cars, etc.

Sorry, God/Jesus was an itinerant preacher...

The Bible is also clear on this subject. But thank you for your kind approach and thoughts.

But I never said that giving money to godly Pastors is wrong....I meant the scamming self-serving wolves in sheep clothing

Alright sister, now I got the real point your trying to focus upon. You see when we know that a pastor is cheating (not really giving the money he has, for God's work), it is better to avoid giving money to them. Instead of giving money to such kind of pastors, it is a lot better to give money to the pastors who are doing God's work. When we can see a pastor doing God's work, I think nothing should forbid us from giving money to them.

When we give to a pastor who is not really doing God's work, it is a sin on our part to continue giving money to them.

God bless you.