Jesus never stopped being God

[bdavidc]

And Jesus increased in wisdom and in stature and in favor with God and man. ~ Luke 2:52 ESV

Jesus did not stop being God or give up His divine attributes when He became man. Instead, He took on a human nature—an addition rather than a subtraction—and willingly submitted the use of His divine attributes to the Father's will (John 5:19, 30; 8:28; Philippians 2:5-8). As a result, there were moments when His omniscience was evident (Matthew 9:4; John 2:24-25; 4:17-18; 11:11-14; 16:30) and other times when it was intentionally veiled by His humanity in accordance with the Father's will (Mark 13:32).

Luke 2:52 states, "And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and man." This verse does not deny Jesus’ divinity but instead highlights His humanity. The Bible teaches that Jesus is fully God and fully man (John 1:1, Colossians 2:9), and in His earthly life, He willingly took on human limitations (Philippians 2:6-8). His growth in wisdom demonstrates that He experienced human development, learning as He matured, just as any human would. This does not contradict His divine nature but rather affirms the mystery of the Incarnation—God the Son taking on human flesh. His increasing favor with God reflects His perfect obedience to the Father’s will, showing that as the Messiah, He lived in complete righteousness. Therefore, rather than denying His deity, Luke 2:52 underscores the reality that Jesus, while fully God, also lived as a true human, growing in wisdom and favor as part of His earthly mission.

Consequently, Christ experienced the natural process of human growth—intellectually, physically, spiritually, and socially.

March 17 - Daily Bible Reading

 

[Rxlx]

Jesus is not GOD and GOD is not Jesus.

Deleted by Moderator.

 

[Rhema]

And Jesus increased in wisdom and in stature and in favor with God and man. ~ Luke 2:52 ESV

How could God increase in wisdom and in stature?

Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:​

- Romans 1:3-4 KJV

 

[Johanabrahams]

Jesus always existed as the Beloved Son in the Mind and Heart of the Living God, Jehovah. And at the right time God created for Himself a body in Mary to reveal His Mind and Heart to us. And His Thoughts and Feelings on His Son, Jesus, became the Word of our Creation. But only those desiring the Living God to be their "Abba Father/Daddy" in Love enters the actual Revelation of these Words. He elects because He sees the hearts of every man and its desires. And some enter the Greatness of His Saving Grace in the Manifestation of this Great Life of Jesus Christ in the Earth.

 

[bdavidc]

How could God increase in wisdom and in stature?

Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:​

- Romans 1:3-4 KJV

Luke 2:52 describes Jesus growing in wisdom, stature, and favor with God and man, highlighting His full humanity alongside His divine nature. While Jesus is fully God, He also took on full humanity in the incarnation. In His human nature, He experienced growth just as any other person would—physically maturing and developing in understanding. His increase in wisdom does not imply that He lacked divine knowledge, but rather that in His humanity, He learned and grew as a man, submitting to the Father’s will and experiencing life as we do. This demonstrates the mystery of the incarnation, where Jesus, while remaining fully God, willingly took on the limitations of human experience. His growth in favor with God and man reflects His perfect obedience and sinless life, displaying righteousness that ultimately fulfilled God's redemptive plan.

 

[Rhema]

Luke 2:52 describes Jesus growing in wisdom, stature, and favor with God and man,

This is just more irrational gobbledygook. God (you say Jesus is God, yes?) God growing in wisdom with God. Such a sentence carries no semantic meaning.

Were Luke to have been Trinitarian, he would have written, Jesus growing in wisdom, stature, and favor with the Father. But that's not what was written, and wouldn't you agree that we should read what is written the way it is written?

So, in essence, Trinitarians play word games when replacing the word God with Father. And it typically happens up inside their head without them realizing it.

His increase in wisdom does not imply that He lacked divine knowledge

Again, more word games. I had said nothing about "divine knowledge," and truth be told, any and all divine knowledge Jesus may have had was revealed from the Father, exactly as Jesus said:

Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.​

- John 8:28 KJV

So yes, in and of himself Jesus did lack divine knowledge but for that "as my Father hath taught me."

You would have it that God grew in wisdom with God, a thing that is irrational. You would have that Jesus had divine knowledge apart from that which his Father had taught him, something that contradicts the very words of Jesus.

Jesus, while remaining fully God, willingly took on the limitations of human experience.

Then he wasn't fully God, but God with limitations. This is an irrational statement, and I would ask that you please not try to explain what your own theologians claim is unexplainable.

His growth in favor with God and man reflects His perfect obedience and sinless life, displaying righteousness

As a human yes. Exactly as I've quoted. And scripture describes these things about Jesus, a man.

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;​

- 1 Timothy 2:5 KJV

Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:​

- Acts 2:22 KJV

The above two verses ought to read "Father" or somehow identify God as Father, were the authors to have believed in this Trinity. But the text was not written that way. Scriptures says here, "God" not "God the Father." It's that simple.

This demonstrates the mystery of the incarnation

A mystery you cannot explain, correct?

righteousness that ultimately fulfilled God's redemptive plan.

Indeed - the teachings of Jesus that declare the Father forgives sin when we ask in prayerful repentance.

Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:​

- Acts 13:38 KJV

Kind regards,
Rhema

Now please, there is no need to dump myriads of Trinitarian proof text scriptures, as if mere volume would settle a matter. And I would prefer to talk with you, not some rando cut and paste drive-by article. If there is any particular item you would wish to discuss, then I would be glad to do so, if the Moderator Nick decides not to CANCEL-DELETE me. Who knows? You might make a point I have not considered.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Were Luke to have been Trinitarian, he would have written, Jesus growing in wisdom, stature, and favor with the Father.

So, in essence, Trinitarians play word games when replacing the word God with Father. And it typically happens up inside their head without them realizing it.

You speak of word games with God's Word and now speak for what one of the writers would have done.

Take care of how you communicate things. Because you've just made a generalization which included me and every Trinity believing person ever!
You know I don't take to that.

Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[bdavidc]

Now please, there is no need to dump myriads of Trinitarian proof text scriptures, as if mere volume would settle a matter. And I would prefer to talk with you, not some rando cut and paste drive-by article. If there is any particular item you would wish to discuss, then I would be glad to do so, if the Moderator Nick decides not to CANCEL-DELETE me. Who knows? You might make a point I have not considered.

I do not agree with any of your statements. I have already studied the doctrine of the Trinity and am convinced of its truth based on Scripture. The Trinity is a profound mystery that is revealed in Scripture, not through sheer volume of proof texts, but through the consistent testimony of God's nature—from the Old Testament hints (Genesis 1:26, Isaiah 9:6) to the New Testament's clear revelation of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as distinct yet fully God (Matthew 28:19, John 1:1, 2 Corinthians 13:14). Since you are unwilling to consider biblical evidence fairly, arguing endlessly is unlikely to be fruitful (2 Timothy 2:23-25). The truth of God's Word can speak for itself if someone actually wants to know the truth.

Just a reminder, this is my thread, and you were the one who initiated this debate.

 

[bdavidc]

So, in essence, Trinitarians play word games when replacing the word God with Father. And it typically happens up inside their head without them realizing it.

The doctrine of the Trinity is not based on wordplay or mental gymnastics but on the consistent revelation of Scripture. The Bible presents God as one in essence (Deuteronomy 6:4) while also revealing three distinct persons—Father, Son, and Holy Spirit—who share that divine essence (Matthew 28:19, 2 Corinthians 13:14). When Scripture refers to "God," context determines whether it is speaking of the Father specifically, the Son, or God as a whole. Jesus Himself distinguishes between the Father and Himself while affirming His divine nature (John 10:30, John 17:5). Likewise, the Holy Spirit is not merely a force but is spoken of as a distinct person with divine attributes (John 14:26, Acts 5:3-4). Trinitarian belief is not about arbitrarily replacing terms but about faithfully following how Scripture presents the nature of God. Rather than being a human construct, the Trinity is a doctrine that emerges from the full biblical witness, harmonizing all that is revealed about God's identity and relationship within Himself.

 

[Rhema]

I do not agree with any of your statements.

Am I to be surprised? Shocked? Admonished? Of course you wouldn't, but you also haven't made any concerted effort to explain why. So...

I have already studied the doctrine of the Trinity and am convinced of its truth based on Scripture.

As most all say. But again, you refused to address any scripture that disagree with the elements of this doctrine. Mere repetition is unbecoming of you. I can just say the same thing back - I have already studied the doctrine of the Trinity and am convinced of its falsehood based on Scripture.

The Trinity is a profound mystery

Meaning that nobody understands it? I shall grant you that.

Isaiah 9:6

I'm not sure how -

For a child is born to us, and a son is given to us, whose government is upon his shoulder: and his name is called the Messenger of great counsel: for I will bring peace upon the princes, and health to him.​

- Isaiah 9:6 Brenton

The Bible presents God as one in essence (Deuteronomy 6:4)

And yet you had to add in the word "essence," a word that is not to be found in Deuteronomy Is it wise to add in words? Is it wise to change words?

And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.​

- Exodus 3:14 KJV

Scripture does not say WE ARE THAT WE ARE. The "being" verb is used. And it is used in the singular. So what is a being? A person. Who is? You are. I am. When saying I AM, it just means that I am a person. One. One person. Were one to speak of more than one person, one would use the plural "we." This is a basic understanding of creation that each of us learns when achieving individuated sentient consciousness - that I am me, one person. And I am not you. Nor are there two or three of me up inside myself, in that I don't exhibit schizophrenia (or is it called multiple personality disorder now?).

And God spoke to Moses, saying, I am THE BEING; and he said, Thus shall ye say to the children of Israel, THE BEING has sent me to you.​

- Exodus 3:14 Brenton

When does any being have two or more persons inside?

Since you are unwilling to consider biblical evidence fairly,

At this point, I would say that you are unwilling to consider the elements of the Doctrine of the Trinity fairly.

Co-eternally co-equal? How does that square with BIBLICAL evidence?

Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.​

- John 14:28 KJV

I'm not the one unwilling to consider that biblical evidence.

Just realize that I am not denying the divinity of Jesus, just the contradictory and non-scriptural elements of the doctrine of the Trinity.

The truth of God's Word can speak for itself if someone actually wants to know the truth.

If one actually reads it. But then one must be comfortable with the truth that Jesus said the Father was greater than He. And this does conflict with certain elements of the Doctrine of the Trinity.

Just a reminder, this is my thread,

Threads exist for the purposes of conversation, not for polemics.

you were the one who initiated this debate.

This is a debate???

Imagine my surprise.

I thought we were just having a discussion. I am truly sorry that you cannot abide commentary on your claims.

In peace,
Rhema

 

[Butch5]

And Jesus increased in wisdom and in stature and in favor with God and man. ~ Luke 2:52 ESV

Jesus did not stop being God or give up His divine attributes when He became man. Instead, He took on a human nature—an addition rather than a subtraction—and willingly submitted the use of His divine attributes to the Father's will (John 5:19, 30; 8:28; Philippians 2:5-8). As a result, there were moments when His omniscience was evident (Matthew 9:4; John 2:24-25; 4:17-18; 11:11-14; 16:30) and other times when it was intentionally veiled by His humanity in accordance with the Father's will (Mark 13:32).

Luke 2:52 states, "And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and man." This verse does not deny Jesus’ divinity but instead highlights His humanity. The Bible teaches that Jesus is fully God and fully man (John 1:1, Colossians 2:9), and in His earthly life, He willingly took on human limitations (Philippians 2:6-8). His growth in wisdom demonstrates that He experienced human development, learning as He matured, just as any human would. This does not contradict His divine nature but rather affirms the mystery of the Incarnation—God the Son taking on human flesh. His increasing favor with God reflects His perfect obedience to the Father’s will, showing that as the Messiah, He lived in complete righteousness. Therefore, rather than denying His deity, Luke 2:52 underscores the reality that Jesus, while fully God, also lived as a true human, growing in wisdom and favor as part of His earthly mission.

Consequently, Christ experienced the natural process of human growth—intellectually, physically, spiritually, and socially.

March 17 - Daily Bible Reading

Is it safe to believe that you don't believe the apostle John?

1 IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Jn 1.

14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

The New King James Version (Nashville: Thomas Nelson, 1982), Jn 1:14.

 

[Butch5]

The doctrine of the Trinity is not based on wordplay or mental gymnastics but on the consistent revelation of Scripture. The Bible presents God as one in essence (Deuteronomy 6:4) while also revealing three distinct persons—Father, Son, and Holy Spirit—who share that divine essence (Matthew 28:19, 2 Corinthians 13:14). When Scripture refers to "God," context determines whether it is speaking of the Father specifically, the Son, or God as a whole. Jesus Himself distinguishes between the Father and Himself while affirming His divine nature (John 10:30, John 17:5). Likewise, the Holy Spirit is not merely a force but is spoken of as a distinct person with divine attributes (John 14:26, Acts 5:3-4). Trinitarian belief is not about arbitrarily replacing terms but about faithfully following how Scripture presents the nature of God. Rather than being a human construct, the Trinity is a doctrine that emerges from the full biblical witness, harmonizing all that is revealed about God's identity and relationship within Himself.

The Trinity is not the revelation of Scripture. You guys need to stop giving your argument a false sense of authority. The word God as used in Scripture is not used of an essence.

 

[bdavidc]

Is it safe to believe that you don't believe the apostle John?

No reason I would not believe John. Do you not believe him?

 

[bdavidc]

The Trinity is not the revelation of Scripture. You guys need to stop giving your argument a false sense of authority. The word God as used in Scripture is not used of an essence.

Jesus is clearly revealed in Scripture as God. From the very beginning, the Bible testifies to His divine nature. In John 1:1, it declares, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” A few verses later, it says the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, clearly identifying Jesus as God in human form. Throughout the New Testament, Jesus accepts worship, forgives sins, and speaks with divine authority—things only God can rightly do. The unity of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit is seen consistently across the biblical text, not as a man-made idea, but as the revealed truth of who God is. While some may distort Scripture to suit their own doctrines, the plain reading of the Bible affirms the full deity of Christ.

 

[Rxlx]

Jesus is GOD's son and dutifully allowed his essence to be transferred into Mary's womb. Just how we cannot know just as we cannot know how Jesus raised the putrefying Lazarus, Elijah raised the boy, etc etc.

GOD intended Jesus to be a sacrificial lamb onto which were poured all the sins of the Jews and Israelites.
THat is why he is called The Lamb of GOD - not because he as mostly meek and mild like a lamb.

 

[Butch5]

Jesus is clearly revealed in Scripture as God. From the very beginning, the Bible testifies to His divine nature. In John 1:1, it declares, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” A few verses later, it says the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, clearly identifying Jesus as God in human form. Throughout the New Testament, Jesus accepts worship, forgives sins, and speaks with divine authority—things only God can rightly do. The unity of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit is seen consistently across the biblical text, not as a man-made idea, but as the revealed truth of who God is. While some may distort Scripture to suit their own doctrines, the plain reading of the Bible affirms the full deity of Christ.

Yes, Jesus is referred to as God. However, that does not prove a Trinity.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Yes, Jesus is referred to as God. However, that does not prove a Trinity.

Back at it huh?! lol
Have fun!

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Butch5]

Back at it huh?! lol
Have fun!

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

Just show that Jesus being God doesn't prove the doctrine. People are equivocating.

 

[Butch5]

No reason I would not believe John. Do you not believe him?

You're countering what he said. That's why I questioned whether you believe him or not. John said the Word "was" God. He didn't say "is". He also said that the Word became flesh. He didn't say the Word put on or added flesh. The Trinity doctrine denies these two statements from John

 

[Rxlx]

Trinity is from Old Babylon.
There is no holy spook flitting round heaven; nor any dead humans either.
This website prattles on trying to push the idea of trinity when any Christian can clearly see the quotes refer to proper angel messengers just like the two who were at Jesus's empty tomb!
This is nonsense: Quote: In Isaiah 6:3, the angels surrounding God praise Him as being “holy, holy, holy.” The threefold repetition expresses the intensity and completeness of God’s holiness.' How that can be taken to prove a trinity is a mystery wrapped in an enigma as someone once said.

Is the Trinity taught in the Old Testament? | GotQuestions.org

Is the Trinity taught in the Old Testament? Can the doctrine of the Trinity be defended with support from the Old Testament?

www.gotquestions.org