Just who are the ELECT? (The Truth will surprise you)

[Charlie24]

I understand what you're saying, BAC. There are so many views involving this, and I'm certainly not saying my view is the absolute truth. Taht would be foolish on my part.

The way I see it, the remnant is the 1/3 of the Israel left at the Second Coming that the prophet Zechariah told us about. All of this remnant will be saved according to Paul.

Zech. 13:8-9
"And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.

And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God."

Then Zechariah continues in 14:1 to tell us how this happens.
Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city."

Zechariah goes further to tell us that when Israel actually see's Christ save them from the anti-christ, and then realizing it is Jesus "of Nazareth, we are told there will be great weeping in the land (Israel) as one weeps for their firstborn.

This is when ALL of Israel (the one third left) is saved when they see for their own eyes who the Messiah really is.

I couldn't remember the rest of the Scripture in Zechariah, so I had to look it up.

Israel will be saved from the total defeat of the anti-christ by Christ Himself at the Second Coming. Israel will see Him do it, as Zechariah said. "and they shall look upon ME, whom they have pierced, and shall mourn for Him..."

Zech. 12:8-14
"In that day shall the Lord defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the Lord before them.

And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.

And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart;

The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart;

All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart.

 

[B-A-C]

We may be slowly diverging from the elect here.

Zec 14:9 And the LORD will be king over all the earth; in that day the LORD will be the only one, and His name the only one.
Zec 14:10 All the land will be changed into a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem; but Jerusalem will rise and remain on its site from Benjamin's Gate as far as the place of the First Gate to the Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Hananel to the king's wine presses.
Zec 14:11 People will live in it, and there will no longer be a curse, for Jerusalem will dwell in security.
Zec 14:12 Now this will be the plague with which the LORD will strike all the peoples who have gone to war against Jerusalem; their flesh will rot while they stand on their feet, and their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongue will rot in their mouth.
Zec 14:13 It will come about in that day that a great panic from the LORD will fall on them; and they will seize one another's hand, and the hand of one will be lifted against the hand of another.
Zec 14:14 Judah also will fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the surrounding nations will be gathered, gold and silver and garments in great abundance.
Zec 14:15 So also like this plague will be the plague on the horse, the mule, the camel, the donkey and all the cattle that will be in those camps.
Zec 14:16 Then it will come about that any who are left of all the nations that went against Jerusalem will go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to celebrate the Feast of Booths.
Zec 14:17 And it will be that whichever of the families of the earth does not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, there will be no rain on them.
Zec 14:18 If the family of Egypt does not go up or enter, then no rain will fall on them; it will be the plague with which the LORD smites the nations who do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Booths.
Zec 14:19 This will be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all the nations who do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Booths.
Zec 14:20 In that day there will be inscribed on the bells of the horses, "HOLY TO THE LORD." And the cooking pots in the LORD'S house will be like the bowls before the altar.

I can't help but wonder if these people outside the city, ( which I suspect will be the New Jerusalem ) are the same people mentioned here.

Rev 21:24 The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it.
Rev 21:25 In the daytime (for there will be no night there) its gates will never be closed;
Rev 21:26 and they will bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it;

Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city.
Rev 22:15 Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.

Rev 22:2 in the middle of its street. On either side of the river was the tree of life, bearing twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit every month; and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

Who are the people in these nations who still will need to be healed from time to time? Who are these dogs and sorcerers outside the gates?

 

[Charlie24]

We may be slowly diverging from the elect here.

Zec 14:9 And the LORD will be king over all the earth; in that day the LORD will be the only one, and His name the only one.
Zec 14:10 All the land will be changed into a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem; but Jerusalem will rise and remain on its site from Benjamin's Gate as far as the place of the First Gate to the Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Hananel to the king's wine presses.
Zec 14:11 People will live in it, and there will no longer be a curse, for Jerusalem will dwell in security.
Zec 14:12 Now this will be the plague with which the LORD will strike all the peoples who have gone to war against Jerusalem; their flesh will rot while they stand on their feet, and their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongue will rot in their mouth.
Zec 14:13 It will come about in that day that a great panic from the LORD will fall on them; and they will seize one another's hand, and the hand of one will be lifted against the hand of another.
Zec 14:14 Judah also will fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the surrounding nations will be gathered, gold and silver and garments in great abundance.
Zec 14:15 So also like this plague will be the plague on the horse, the mule, the camel, the donkey and all the cattle that will be in those camps.
Zec 14:16 Then it will come about that any who are left of all the nations that went against Jerusalem will go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to celebrate the Feast of Booths.
Zec 14:17 And it will be that whichever of the families of the earth does not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, there will be no rain on them.
Zec 14:18 If the family of Egypt does not go up or enter, then no rain will fall on them; it will be the plague with which the LORD smites the nations who do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Booths.
Zec 14:19 This will be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all the nations who do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Booths.
Zec 14:20 In that day there will be inscribed on the bells of the horses, "HOLY TO THE LORD." And the cooking pots in the LORD'S house will be like the bowls before the altar.

I can't help but wonder if these people outside the city, ( which I suspect will be the New Jerusalem ) are the same people mentioned here.

Rev 21:24 The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it.
Rev 21:25 In the daytime (for there will be no night there) its gates will never be closed;
Rev 21:26 and they will bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it;

Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city.
Rev 22:15 Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.

Rev 22:2 in the middle of its street. On either side of the river was the tree of life, bearing twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit every month; and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

Who are the people in these nations who still will need to be healed from time to time? Who are these dogs and sorcerers outside the gates?

It's obvious to me that Matt. 24-25 is directly associated with the Book of Revelation. The entire theme is Israel coming to Christ while God uses the anti-christ to gather all the nations of the Gentile world to bring them to Christ. The end result is the nations that hate Israel will serve God's chosen people of Israel for a 1000 years. God will show the world that He has always loved Israel even when they were apart from Him. Paul tells us that Israel is no better than the born-again Gentile, but Israel will be placed on the top of this world for the 1000 year reign of Christ.

Zechariah told us that all the nations of the world at this time will come (believed to be by representatives from all nations) and will "take hold of the skirt of him who is a Jew, and say, we will go with you to worship the King, for we have heard that God is with you."

Israel will be the premiere nation in all the world at that time because Christ is there, and that was what God intended for Israel to be, and will be.

Many times through the years I have faced off with the Universalists over the "the dogs and sorcerers outside the gates." They believe Hell is temporary and condemned man will eventually get out of Hell. "The dogs and sorcerers outside the gates" is part of their confused points on this.

If you read the context in Rev. 20:14-15 you will see that that those who have obeyed Christ in salvation "have the right to the tree of life" but those "Without" are dogs and sorcerers. They are "WITHOUT" the rights of access to the Tree of Life. They are not outside the gates of the New Jerusalem, they are still in Hell "without" the right to the Tree of Life.

Rev. 22:14-15
Blessed are they that do his commandments (the saved), that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

For without (the unsaved without the right to the tree of life) are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

But try as I have many times to explain this to the Universalist, and see what happens! They will not accept it!

As far as the Tree of Life in Rev. 22:2 being the healing for the nations, this is proof, or at least I think it to be proof, that there will be on earth people who have glorified bodies as Christ had after His resurrection, and there will continue to be regular people as we are now, forever.

I know this sounds strange, but there is very much this possibility. Those with the glorified bodies will not need this fruit for healing, but the those with the same bodies we have now will need it.

The idea is that this fruit will stop any kind of sickness before it even begins worldwide. But it's only for those who have not been through the grave and received glorified bodies at the resurrection.

So the end result of this view is that life as we know it in the reproductive cycle will continue forever. But only for the natural people, not the glorified people.

 

[Charlie24]

It's obvious to me that Matt. 24-25 is directly associated with the Book of Revelation. The entire theme is Israel coming to Christ while God uses the anti-christ to gather all the nations of the Gentile world to bring them to Christ. The end result is the nations that hate Israel will serve God's chosen people of Israel for a 1000 years. God will show the world that He has always loved Israel even when they were apart from Him. Paul tells us that Israel is no better than the born-again Gentile, but Israel will be placed on the top of this world for the 1000 year reign of Christ.

Zechariah told us that all the nations of the world at this time will come (believed to be by representatives from all nations) and will "take hold of the skirt of him who is a Jew, and say, we will go with you to worship the King, for we have heard that God is with you."

Israel will be the premiere nation in all the world at that time because Christ is there, and that was what God intended for Israel to be, and will be.

Many times through the years I have faced off with the Universalists over the "the dogs and sorcerers outside the gates." They believe Hell is temporary and condemned man will eventually get out of Hell. "The dogs and sorcerers outside the gates" is part of their confused points on this.

If you read the context in Rev. 20:14-15 you will see that that those who have obeyed Christ in salvation "have the right to the tree of life" but those "Without" are dogs and sorcerers. They are "WITHOUT" the rights of access to the Tree of Life. They are not outside the gates of the New Jerusalem, they are still in Hell "without" the right to the Tree of Life.

Rev. 22:14-15
Blessed are they that do his commandments (the saved), that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

For without (the unsaved without the right to the tree of life) are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

But try as I have many times to explain this to the Universalist, and see what happens! They will not accept it!

As far as the Tree of Life in Rev. 22:2 being the healing for the nations, this is proof, or at least I think it to be proof, that there will be on earth people who have glorified bodies as Christ had after His resurrection, and there will continue to be regular people as we are now, forever.

I know this sounds strange, but there is very much this possibility. Those with the glorified bodies will not need this fruit for healing, but the those with the same bodies we have now will need it.

The idea is that this fruit will stop any kind of sickness before it even begins worldwide. But it's only for those who have not been through the grave and received glorified bodies at the resurrection.

So the end result of this view is that life as we know it in the reproductive cycle will continue forever. But only for the natural people, not the glorified people.

LOL, BAC, you know how it is when you have something on your mind and can't shut it down. That's where I'm at right now with Zechariah.

Zechariah also tells us that during this time of the reign of Christ, all nations who will not come (again believed to be representatives from all countries) to the Feast of Tabernacles to worship in Jerusalem will receive no rain. He even tells us who one of these countries will be.

Zech. 14:16-19
"And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles."

So here we have the prophecy of the return of the animal sacrifices in The Feast of Tabernacles in the future. I'm sure you've heard of that return in the future, well, this is where it comes from.

There's much controversy over why the Feast of Tabernacles returns during this 1000 years, but I'll not get into that, to much conjecture.

 

[Rhema]

Of course you don't see it.

I don't see it because it isn't there.

You made a claim that Israel is the "fig tree." I showed you in detail where it is not, and what the fig tree represents.

The only scripture you provided to support your amazingly fantastical claim is Hosea 9:10, and it doesn't even say "fig tree," but "firstripe in the fig tree."

I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.​

(Hosea 9:10 KJV)

Twelve times, Israel is not the fig tree. There are twelve times where the "fig tree" is mentioned, and none of these means Israel.

Look again at Hosea - (but I'm resigned that you won't ... you'll just skim over this and make other rando comments that don't deal with the specifics I posted.)

The days of punishment have come, the days of recompense have come; Israel cries, "The prophet is a fool, the man of the spirit is mad!" Because of your great iniquity, your hostility is great. The prophet is a sentinel for my God over Ephraim, yet a fowler's snare is on all his ways, and hostility in the house of his God. They have deeply corrupted themselves as in the days of Gibeah; he will remember their iniquity, he will punish their sins. Like grapes in the wilderness, I found Israel. Like the first fruit on the fig tree, in its first season, I saw your ancestors. But they came to Baal-peor, and consecrated themselves to a thing of shame, and became detestable like the thing they loved.​

(Hosea 9:7-10 NRSV)

The fig tree is not Israel. It's the hope that God initially had about Israel. Israel was like finding grapes in the wilderness and the first fruit on the fig tree. A thing of innocence having a good future, but "they came to Baal-peor" and then embraced a thing of shame becoming detestable.

Do a deep dive intl "Baal-peor" and you'll see how Israel lost their innocence in the sexual rituals of the Baal of Peor.

Again, the first fruit on the fig tree and the wild grapes represent Innocence of Israel, and not Israel itself.

If God had meant to use a fig tree as a metaphor to represent Israel, the prophet would have said something like... Behold a Fig Tree, having first fruit but rejecting the living water of the law of God it's roots turned rotten, and the branches withered and fell off. Termites and worms have chewed out the center and the figs are only good to feed flies. And I'm talking about YOU Israel.

Now if something like that was written, it would be obvious that the Fig Tree is Israel. But the grapes and the figs are at best a passing metaphor about how God felt about the innocence of Israel, not Israel itself.

TWELVE TIMES you reject what scripture says the Fig Tree means.

In peace,
Rhema

 

[Rhema]

The truth is that Israel is the very center of the fulfillment of Revelation.

I praise the God in heaven for the wisdom of the Apostle Thomas to reject that book. No good has ever come from it.

God made great promises to Abraham concerning Israel and He will keep those promises.

What promises made to Abraham have not been fulfilled? (WITH scripture references.)

And don't make things up.

I'm not unfamiliar with the covenants that God made with Abraham, but I also allow that I might have missed something.

Kindly,
Rhema

 

[KingJ]

@Brightfame52

You are an EXPERT at dodging a question.

Dodging - Noun. deliberately avoiding; keeping away from or preventing from happening. synonyms: avoidance, shunning, turning away.

Question to Brightfame - Cherry picking some is partiality and partiality is wicked, explain to me how it is not!! Explain why YOU teach it when Job said this ''Job 34:12 it is UNTHINKABLE that God would do what is wicked'' and David said ''Psalm 145:17 God is righteous in ALL HIS WAYS.......Go, the floor is YOURS.....

More dodge INCOMING, everyone get your popcorn!!

 

[Rhema]

More dodge INCOMING, everyone get your popcorn!!

KJ, if you could be so kind as to keep your vain repetitions (and your fight with BF) out of my thread, it would be greatly appreciated.

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

Well, your OP is not petty and not comparable to a person worshipping on Saturday or Sunday!

As it is my OP, I greatly appreciate the kind words.

Rhema

(Aw shucks. You got lost and didn't mean to give me a compliment, did you. Oh well.)

 

[KingJ]

KJ, if you could be so kind as to keep your vain repetitions (and your fight with BF) out of my thread, it would be greatly appreciated.

Rhema

Is dodging a simple question 11 times not a popcorn moment? Am I wrong?

Oh wait, you did exactly the same thing in the abortion thread, so I can understand your need to defend someone else who is dodging.

 

[Rhema]

Oh wait, you did exactly the same thing...

Boy, when you get your panties in a twist it's like the Gordian Knot.

Just be careful lest Alexander the Great perform a bris.

 

[KingJ]

Boy, when you get your panties in a twist it's like the Gordian Knot.

Just be careful lest Alexander the Great perform a bris.

You know, I really do look forward to the day that you can talk like a normal person and not always try sound smart. It is so cringe.

 

[Brightfame52]

@Brightfame52

You are an EXPERT at dodging a question.

Dodging - Noun. deliberately avoiding; keeping away from or preventing from happening. synonyms: avoidance, shunning, turning away.

Question to Brightfame - Cherry picking some is partiality and partiality is wicked, explain to me how it is not!! Explain why YOU teach it when Job said this ''Job 34:12 it is UNTHINKABLE that God would do what is wicked'' and David said ''Psalm 145:17 God is righteous in ALL HIS WAYS.......Go, the floor is YOURS.....

More dodge INCOMING, everyone get your popcorn!!

Answering your questions isnt debating, and you arent teachable, u reject what I have already put out.

 

[Rhema]

Answering your questions isnt debating, and you arent teachable, u reject what I have already put out.

Black Pot meet Black Kettle

 

[KingJ]

Answering your questions isnt debating, and

Imagine this being the Trump / Harris debate.

Dear Harris - Question for you: All Christians and prophets in scripture teach that God is good EXCEPT for you. You teach He is partial. Can you better explain yourself? This sounds like something the devil would teach!!

Harris reply - ''your question isnt debating,''.

you arent teachable,

By you, for sure. I reject all you say as your premise is 100% false. That is why I ASKED YOU THE QUESTION ABOUT YOUR CLEAR INSINUATION OF GOD BEING EVIL!!! Which you REFUSE to answer......and I am must ''learn''' from you??? Oh my, your thinking is at a height of insanity.

u reject what I have already put out.

By you, for sure. I reject all you say as your premise is 100% false. That is why I ASKED YOU THE QUESTION ABOUT YOUR CLEAR INSINUATION OF GOD BEING EVIL!!! Which you REFUSE to answer......and I am must ''learn''' from you??? Oh my, your thinking is at a height of insanity.


This is a discussion forum NOT a message board.

 

[Rhema]

This is a discussion forum NOT a message board.

I think it's whatever the owner wants it to be.

 

[KingJ]

I think it's whatever the owner wants it to be.

And he is clear. This thread is in a 'bible study' forum.

 

[Brightfame52]

Black Pot meet Black Kettle

Since when is answering all your questions debating ?

 

[KingJ]

Since when is answering all your questions debating ?

I did not ask questions, no, only a question.

You need to give up on thinking you know what a debate is. You need to first learn what a discussion is. You are only posting your gunk. Not responding to any interrogation unless it is posting more of your gunk.

I also don't think you grasped Rhema's idiom.

 

[Rhema]

And he is clear. This thread is in a 'bible study' forum.

Allow me to clarify... I think it's whatever the owner allows it to be.