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Just who are the ELECT? (The Truth will surprise you)

Rhema

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Jun 28, 2021
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2,381
But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.​
(Mark 13:24-27 KJV)

As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.​
(Matthew 13:40-43 KJV)

"Elect" is the common gloss used in English for the Greek word ἐκλεκτός. But that's not a "special" word in Greek. It just means the things that are "selected."

LINK to the Liddell Scott Greek Lexicon for ἐκλεκτός
A.picked out, select,
As one can see from the above parallel passages. The ones selected to be gathered by the angels are those who do iniquity. It's pretty obvious to anyone who can read plain Greek, or even plain English. "His Elect" are the ones He selected to be gathered by the angels and be cast into a furnace of fire.

(But I can feel the indignation rising.)

@Brightfame52 might start posting that Christ died for the Elect. To which I can readily agree:
For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.​
(Romans 5:6 KJV)​
The "Elect" are "the ungodly," those who "do iniquity" and shall disappear at the end of the world, when removed by the angels.

:scream:

But... But... But... (first, go read through the above scripture passages again.)

But... But the Elect are those chosen to go to heaven !!! No? (Again, go read through the above scripture passages again.)

Over the Two Millennia, the Christian Church has created it's own vocabulary, which it then teaches by rote as it indoctrinates the initiates. And yes, the Church does teach (in spite of scripture) that the Elect are the "Believers" who are "saved."

And one could even use three verses from Matthew 24 as a Proof Text to show that "The Elect" are these "special people" selected to be saved.

And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.​
(Matthew 24:31 KJV)​
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
(Matthew 24:24 KJV)​
And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.​
(Matthew 24:22 KJV)​

But this is an illusion of translation. What is sometimes called an artifact. As is clearly shown in Matthew 13, if those selected by Jesus to be removed from the Earth by the angels are those who do iniquity, the above three passages should read without contradiction when the word "elect" is replaced by "iniquitous."

Matthew 24:22 GRK) και ει μη εκολοβωθησαν αι ημεραι εκειναι ουκ αν εσωθη πασα σαρξ δια δε τους εκλεκτους κολοβωθησονται αι ημεραι εκειναι

First, I post this because there are no variants in the manuscripts. Second, the word "sake" is not in the text. Furthermore, the word "Elect" is not in the Genitive Case, so there can be no possessive (the elect's) anything. The text does Not read, "for the sake of the elect." Now I can understand that people would reject my translation (no matter how accurate) so let's look at the Young's Literal Translation:

And if those days were not shortened, no flesh would have been saved; but because of the chosen, shall those days be shortened.​
(Matthew 24:22 YLT)

And when we make the simple substitute, we get "And if those days were not shortened, no flesh would have been saved; but because of the Iniquitous, shall those days be shortened.

And that makes perfect sense. There are certain "Iniquitous" people who will do something SO bad that it would cause the extinction of all flesh. While the thoughts of many might just jump to nuclear weapon obliteration, y'all just came through COVID, which I consider to be a test run. But I don't want to hijack my own thread. It's enough to prove here, that if those days were not shortened, no flesh would have been saved; but because of the Iniquitous, shall those days be shortened.

Let's now look at the second "problem" scripture verse from Matthew:

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.​
(Matthew 24:24 KJV)​

Surely this means that these false Christs and false prophets are trying to deceive the very "Saved Believers" (if possible).

First, there's no real issue here in Greek, but again, looking at the Young's Literal Translation:

for there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and they shall give great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, also the chosen.​
(Matthew 24:24 YLT)​

Again, recognizing that in Matthew 13, the chosen, the ones chosen to be removed from the earth are the iniquitous, (it says that), we can read: there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and they shall give great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, also the Iniquitous.

Even the iniquitous could be fooled into following these false Christs and false prophets when seeing the great signs and wonders. Do you think that the iniquitous really want to get involved in any religious system? Not really, but if that were possible, these false cult leaders (there I said it) might even convince them. So verse 24 presents no problem when one reads "Iniquitous" instead of "Believer." And it creates no conflict with Matthew 13.

Now the final verse in Matthew 24 that needs to be addressed in order to understand that the Iniquitous are removed at the "Rapture" is verse 31:

And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.​
(Matthew 24:31 KJV)​

In this verse, we can just make a direct substitution from the lexicon, "they shall gather together his selected from the four winds." The Greek phrase is:
τους (THOSE) εκλεκτους (SELECTED) αυτου (BY HIM)​
And from Matthew 13, we know that those selected were the ones that do iniquity.

YES, this disagrees with all you were taught. But it doesn't disagree with what is written. But to MAKE the scripture say "Believers," the Eschatology Circus Engine goes into high gear claiming that Matthew 13 and Matthew 24 are speaking about two separate things, which to the common reader means there are Two end of the worlds, and Two second comings, and even Two Raptures. You can buy the pig in the poke if you want, but within the doctrinal frame of reference in Matthew (within its context), the "Elect" (those selected to be removed) are the ones who do Iniquity.

Jesus even confirms this in Matthew 24:

But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.​
(Matthew 24:37-41 KJV)

Who are the "THEY" ???

They were eating. They were drinking. They were marring and giving in marriage, and They knew not, right up until the flood came and took them all away (them that do iniquity). The flood took the evil ones away.

So there are two in the field, one is taken, one is left. The two women grinding, one is taken the other is left.

Who are taken?

The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather (take) out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.​
(Matthew 13:41-43 KJV)

Who hath ears to hear, let him hear,
Rhema
 
But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.​
(Mark 13:24-27 KJV)

As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.​
(Matthew 13:40-43 KJV)

"Elect" is the common gloss used in English for the Greek word ἐκλεκτός. But that's not a "special" word in Greek. It just means the things that are "selected."

LINK to the Liddell Scott Greek Lexicon for ἐκλεκτός
A.picked out, select,
As one can see from the above parallel passages. The ones selected to be gathered by the angels are those who do iniquity. It's pretty obvious to anyone who can read plain Greek, or even plain English. "His Elect" are the ones He selected to be gathered by the angels and be cast into a furnace of fire.

(But I can feel the indignation rising.)

@Brightfame52 might start posting that Christ died for the Elect. To which I can readily agree:
For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.​
(Romans 5:6 KJV)​
The "Elect" are "the ungodly," those who "do iniquity" and shall disappear at the end of the world, when removed by the angels.

:scream:

But... But... But... (first, go read through the above scripture passages again.)

But... But the Elect are those chosen to go to heaven !!! No? (Again, go read through the above scripture passages again.)

Over the Two Millennia, the Christian Church has created it's own vocabulary, which it then teaches by rote as it indoctrinates the initiates. And yes, the Church does teach (in spite of scripture) that the Elect are the "Believers" who are "saved."

And one could even use three verses from Matthew 24 as a Proof Text to show that "The Elect" are these "special people" selected to be saved.

And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.​
(Matthew 24:31 KJV)​
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
(Matthew 24:24 KJV)​
And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.​
(Matthew 24:22 KJV)​

But this is an illusion of translation. What is sometimes called an artifact. As is clearly shown in Matthew 13, if those selected by Jesus to be removed from the Earth by the angels are those who do iniquity, the above three passages should read without contradiction when the word "elect" is replaced by "iniquitous."

Matthew 24:22 GRK) και ει μη εκολοβωθησαν αι ημεραι εκειναι ουκ αν εσωθη πασα σαρξ δια δε τους εκλεκτους κολοβωθησονται αι ημεραι εκειναι

First, I post this because there are no variants in the manuscripts. Second, the word "sake" is not in the text. Furthermore, the word "Elect" is not in the Genitive Case, so there can be no possessive (the elect's) anything. The text does Not read, "for the sake of the elect." Now I can understand that people would reject my translation (no matter how accurate) so let's look at the Young's Literal Translation:

And if those days were not shortened, no flesh would have been saved; but because of the chosen, shall those days be shortened.​
(Matthew 24:22 YLT)

And when we make the simple substitute, we get "And if those days were not shortened, no flesh would have been saved; but because of the Iniquitous, shall those days be shortened.

And that makes perfect sense. There are certain "Iniquitous" people who will do something SO bad that it would cause the extinction of all flesh. While the thoughts of many might just jump to nuclear weapon obliteration, y'all just came through COVID, which I consider to be a test run. But I don't want to hijack my own thread. It's enough to prove here, that if those days were not shortened, no flesh would have been saved; but because of the Iniquitous, shall those days be shortened.

Let's now look at the second "problem" scripture verse from Matthew:

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.​
(Matthew 24:24 KJV)​

Surely this means that these false Christs and false prophets are trying to deceive the very "Saved Believers" (if possible).

First, there's no real issue here in Greek, but again, looking at the Young's Literal Translation:

for there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and they shall give great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, also the chosen.​
(Matthew 24:24 YLT)​

Again, recognizing that in Matthew 13, the chosen, the ones chosen to be removed from the earth are the iniquitous, (it says that), we can read: there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and they shall give great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, also the Iniquitous.

Even the iniquitous could be fooled into following these false Christs and false prophets when seeing the great signs and wonders. Do you think that the iniquitous really want to get involved in any religious system? Not really, but if that were possible, these false cult leaders (there I said it) might even convince them. So verse 24 presents no problem when one reads "Iniquitous" instead of "Believer." And it creates no conflict with Matthew 13.

Now the final verse in Matthew 24 that needs to be addressed in order to understand that the Iniquitous are removed at the "Rapture" is verse 31:

And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.​
(Matthew 24:31 KJV)​

In this verse, we can just make a direct substitution from the lexicon, "they shall gather together his selected from the four winds." The Greek phrase is:
τους (THOSE) εκλεκτους (SELECTED) αυτου (BY HIM)​
And from Matthew 13, we know that those selected were the ones that do iniquity.

YES, this disagrees with all you were taught. But it doesn't disagree with what is written. But to MAKE the scripture say "Believers," the Eschatology Circus Engine goes into high gear claiming that Matthew 13 and Matthew 24 are speaking about two separate things, which to the common reader means there are Two end of the worlds, and Two second comings, and even Two Raptures. You can buy the pig in the poke if you want, but within the doctrinal frame of reference in Matthew (within its context), the "Elect" (those selected to be removed) are the ones who do Iniquity.

Jesus even confirms this in Matthew 24:

But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.​
(Matthew 24:37-41 KJV)

Who are the "THEY" ???

They were eating. They were drinking. They were marring and giving in marriage, and They knew not, right up until the flood came and took them all away (them that do iniquity). The flood took the evil ones away.

So there are two in the field, one is taken, one is left. The two women grinding, one is taken the other is left.

Who are taken?

The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather (take) out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.​
(Matthew 13:41-43 KJV)

Who hath ears to hear, let him hear,
Rhema
You are making MAJOR errors right at the start of your post. Mark 13:24-27 is referring to the generation to whom Jesus was speaking v30, not the end of the world on "the last day". The clear modern English the timing reads:

"Truly I tell you: the present generation will live to see it all." (Mark 13:30 REB)

You try to equate this passage in Mark to that which you quoted from Matt. 13:40-43 but the Greek ἐκλεκτός eklektos does not appear in Matthew until 20:16, and then 22:14 where both times it is translated "chosen", but back in Matt. 13 it reads -

"The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth." (Matt 13:41-42 KJV)

That is clearly at "the last day" at the final judgment, not speaking about that generation to whom Jesus was speaking. Now, as to your use of the LSJ, Classical Greek Lexicon, those who have spent time in study knows that you cannot just willy-nilly lift a definition from the LSJ and insert it into the Greek NT.

In summary, while LSJ is an excellent resource for classical Greek, it is not always suitable for NT Greek due to differences in time period, context, and linguistic evolution. For accurate and nuanced understanding of NT Greek, it is recommended to consult specialized NT Greek lexica, such as BDAG.

Your post went off the rails right at the beginning.
 
Rom 5:6 the ungodly there is only the elect, they are by nature ungodly sinners like the nonelect.
Your position just doesn't make any sense, Brightfame52. Your definitional framework is very skewed. But I know that your very existence depends upon you digging in your heels to this useless doctrine that provides no edification.

Kindly,
Rhema
 
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