Liberalism

[MisterObjective]

I agree but it is our call to say when they are not abiding in Him to correct them by the scriptures because they are still His even if they became former believers.

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

So we are to seek the good of other fellow believers so that they may obtained the eternal glory that comes with our salvation which is to be that vessel unto honor in His House to be received at the rapture event rather than left behind as denied by Him for being in iniquity and thus their spirits will be with the Lord in Heaven awaiting their resurrection after the great tribulation as vessels unto dishonors for He still abides in former believers & unrepentant saints left behind.

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:
12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

Incidentally, Jehovah is the name Jesus went by in the O.T. as the Lord that appeared unto men. Jesus The God That Men Had Seen In The O.T. <--- click on green words which is a link to that threa at Talk Jesus if interested.

I think it's God's call. We are not qualified to judge others or their doctrine. They may be wrong and we may be wrong. Given all the Christian sects, they can't all be right and they all could be wrong. And besides what others believe is really non of our business. We need not worry about the salvation and lifestyle of others because we are not the ones making the call. As long as people are law abiding it is none of our concern. If 2 men want to marry and do things that I find repulsive it is not for me to judge or criticize as long as they are good neighbor. We are COMMANDED by Christ to not condemn or shun them.

The criticism and the paranoia surrounding LGBTQ is absurd. Straight people can't be turned gay and statistically we have a lower percent of gays and bisexual since the Kinsey Report and Masters and Johnson. Their numbers are dwindling.

 

[GodB4Us]

I think it's God's call. We are not qualified to judge others or their doctrine. They may be wrong and we may be wrong. Given all the Christian sects, they can't all be right and they all could be wrong. And besides what others believe is really non of our business. We need not worry about the salvation and lifestyle of others because we are not the ones making the call. As long as people are law abiding it is none of our concern. If 2 men want to marry and do things that I find repulsive it is not for me to judge or criticize as long as they are good neighbor. We are COMMANDED by Christ to not condemn or shun them.

The criticism and the paranoia surrounding LGBTQ is absurd. Straight people can't be turned gay and statistically we have a lower percent of gays and bisexual since the Kinsey Report and Masters and Johnson. Their numbers are dwindling.

And yet having a major influence in politics and social media and news outlet because they have become bullying tyrants as bad as an oppressive Nazis movements in Germany before it became Nazis Germany..

The Word of God is the final authority that any Christian, a newbie or an elder, can refer to when correcting any believer by the scripture.

As for sinners, I'll let the Lord leads whomever to preach the gospel to any of those sinners in the LGBTQ + communities. Some will not want to hear it and that is when it is okay to walk away BUT if they engage after saying that to argue & complain, then they are opening the door to that discussion and opportunity to share the gospel.

 

[MedicBravo]

@MisterObjective We ARE called to judge others backed by God and the Bible. Whoever started and keeps spreading we are not to judge at all is 100% wrong.
If we never course corrected other Christians and couldn't spread God to the world b/c of that assumption then Christianity becomes a closed country club.
There is hypocritical judgment which we are not to do. There is a difference between the two.

 

[Laeomis]

If a person is intersexed/intergendered physically or neurologically and they want to change their body to fit their brain so what. Why is it anybody else business other than the patient and the doctor?

With all due respect, the anti-LGBT comments I read come out of ignorance and judgement that should be left to God. Do some research gender anomalies and you will be surprised at how often the occur. Maybe you think people with XYY syndrome or Klienfelter's or XXY or AIS are God's mistakes but if you do you would be wrong. Abnormalities of the sex chromosomes About 1 in 400 male and 1 in 650 female live births demonstrate some form of sex chromosome abnormality, although the symptoms of these conditions are generally much less severe than are those associated with autosomal abnormalities.

What the Bible says about intergendered...

What does the Bible say about hermaphrodites? | GotQuestions.org

What does the Bible say about hermaphrodites / the intersexed? What is the cause of hermaphroditism? Should a hermaphrodite have a 'gender selection' surgery?

www.gotquestions.org

Have you ever seen a brain scan of a heterosexual male or female brain compared with a gay male or female brain or a trans brain? Before you pass judgement, do some research.

Mark 9:42 " 42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea."

They are free to do so if they are an adult. The problem happens when they are doing this to children. Children are being persuaded to get a sex change using shoddy research that they should be rushed into doing so because they are less suicidal if they get a sex change. Actually it may make them more suicidal. They give them puberty blocking medication which can have irreversible effects of actually destroying their bone density seriously for life. Young trans-children have spoken up about how they were coerced to get this medical treatment and regret it, but it appears like their voices are getting silenced. There are also instances of medical workers trying to push children through this system without their parent's knowledge or consent. It almost looks to me like it is a modern attempt to castrate the gays, which used to be the law in some countries.

Keira Bell case: What are puberty blockers?

Doctors can now judge whether under-16s can give informed consent to taking puberty blockers.

www.bbc.com

Parents speak out about the ‘rush’ to reassign the gender of their kids

The new documentary matters explored in the newly released film “Trans Mission: What’s the Rush To Reassign Gender?” explores the widely promoted notion that gender reassignment can prevent e…

nypost.com

 

[MedicBravo]

"
If a person is intersexed/intergendered physically or neurologically and they want to change their body to fit their brain so what. Why is it anybody else business other than the patient and the doctor?
With all due respect, the anti-LGBT comments I read come out of ignorance and judgement that should be left to God. Do some research gender anomalies and you will be surprised at how often the occur. Maybe you think people with XYY syndrome or Klienfelter's or XXY or AIS are God's mistakes but if you do you would be wrong. Abnormalities of the sex chromosomes About 1 in 400 male and 1 in 650 female live births demonstrate some form of sex chromosome abnormality, although the symptoms of these conditions are generally much less severe than are those associated with autosomal abnormalities." -
I'm so sick of this.
Just b/c something exist it doesn't mean it is good, normal, or accepted. I know your type. Every time I see this "argument" it's the same every time.
No minority defines a majority, group, or person. EVER.
The whole topic of intersex is very complicated. There are many combinations and 99% of them, once they find out will choose to live as male or female depending on how they've developed as with intersex DNA.
Knowing someone is intersex is, of course, other people's business. Especially if the two might pursue a relationship. Some of the intersex combinations can result in offpsring with even worse problems or the parent might be infertile b/c of being intersex.
God doesn't make mistakes. If you knew how the Fall tainted all of Creation then you'd know why we have them, LGB/T+, malformed, etc.
Your entire argument is pointless. It's like arguing rape every time someone brings up abortion.
IDK if you're a Christian but pushing the abnormal as normal is something a Christian would NOT do.

 

[Godbehonored]

I think it's God's call. We are not qualified to judge others or their doctrine. They may be wrong and we may be wrong. Given all the Christian sects, they can't all be right and they all could be wrong. And besides what others believe is really non of our business. We need not worry about the salvation and lifestyle of others because we are not the ones making the call. As long as people are law abiding it is none of our concern. If 2 men want to marry and do things that I find repulsive it is not for me to judge or criticize as long as they are good neighbor. We are COMMANDED by Christ to not condemn or shun them.

The criticism and the paranoia surrounding LGBTQ is absurd. Straight people can't be turned gay and statistically we have a lower percent of gays and bisexual since the Kinsey Report and Masters and Johnson. Their numbers are dwindling.

Did you ever read Romans 1? Apostle Paul said clearly sexual perversion with homosexuality at its helm is a result of God giving the wicked and unrepentant sinners over to a reprobate mind. In other words, God gave up on purifying them, stopped protecting them from evil influences and that is why they spiral down into that state of perverse sexuality. If God gives up on someone that person is a dwelling place for demonic spirits and this negatively affects generations of people down the line. That is why people are even born with sexual perversity now. They need DELIVERANCE not acceptance.

You have no idea that pointing out people’s sins has nothing to do with criticism or condemnation, it is to save them from the destructiveness of sins. Do you let your children play with fire and tell them it’s ok to be burned? By accepting them in their sins you are complicit in letting them destroy themselves with their evil ways. How deluded can one be to believe this is loving?

 

[Laeomis]

The point is not that puberty blockers should be withheld from actual issues like having an extra chromosome. Puberty blockers were made for certain things like girls born Turner Syndrome (only one X chromosome). They may undergo something called prococious puberty too early which can be extremely painful and lead to defects. These children were typically born infertile anyway.

Precocious Puberty - Symptoms, Causes, Treatment | NORD

Learn about Precocious Puberty, including symptoms, causes, and treatments. If you or a loved one is affected by this condition, visit NORD to find resources

rarediseases.org

Puberty blockers also lower bone mass density and increase the risk of osteoporosis and bone fractures in teenagers. It may also worsen their depression.

Puberty Blockers, Bone Scans, and Hormones for Transgender Youth

Bone growth is rapid during puberty. Bone density must increase in order for bone strength to maintain pace with growth. Hormones are vital for this.

We need hormones to keep our bones strong, which is evidenced in women who have gone through menopause. As their hormone levels reduce, so does the density of their bones, putting them at greater risk of fracture.

Teenagers on puberty blockers, or those who experience a naturally late puberty, may miss out on essential bone growth. It’s important to ensure that puberty isn’t delayed any longer than necessary and that hormones are introduced as soon as the person is ready. This may involve stopping the blockers and reverting to birth hormones or introducing hormones as medication.

When hormones are reintroduced, evidence shows that bone density quickly catches up. Bone scans may also be a valuable tool to monitor bone density accrual to ensure it is sufficient when the maximum bone development has occurred.

Puberty Blockers for Transgender Youth & Bone Health

Despite the abundance of online information regarding puberty blockers for transgender youth we're here to peel away the misinformation.

www.gendergp.com

Bone health
Using puberty blockers can make your bones weaker while you are taking them. The medical term for this is
“decreased bone density.” Your bones may get stronger when you stop taking puberty blockers or start taking
hormone therapy.
We recommend you do the following things to keep your bones as healthy as possible.
• Take a calcium supplement
• Take a Vitamin D supplement
• Do exercise that makes your bones stronger, such as walking, jumping and weight lifting.
Your doctor might check your bone density before you start taking puberty blockers. You might also need it
checked while you are taking them.
Because blocking puberty hormones can weaken your bones, it is best to take them for just 2 to 3 years.
Fertility
Taking puberty blockers alone should not affect your ability to have a baby in the future. However, taking
estrogen or testosterone can affect it. Talk with your doctor about your options for having a baby in the future,
before you start taking any medication.
Mental health
Puberty blockers can affect your mental health. This is different for different people. You might have less energy
if you just started taking puberty blockers. Or you might feel more depressed if you were depressed before.
These problems usually get better after a few weeks. Talk with your doctor if you have any concerns.
It can help to work with a therapist who is experienced with gender identity. They can:
• Help you make decisions about your gender transition
• Help you understand how your decisions affect your goals for your body
• Watch for signs of depression, and treat it if needed
• Help you and your family support each other
• Support you when you make changes, such as changing your name, talking with your school, or
changing gender
• Write letters to doctors and insurance companies about your needs for care

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.ohsu.edu/sites/default/files/2020-12/Gender-Clinic-Puberty-Blockers-Handout.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjzwv-cxaj5AhX_mmoFHfloCJgQFnoECA8QBg&usg=AOvVaw0PNjVbWlUG1bt91A456dU8

Puberty blockers have also been used to chemically castrate sex offenders.

Chemical castration, sometimes called medical castration, refers to the use of chemicals or drugs to stop sex hormone production. While many people know about this process as a way to stop sex offenders, medical castration is used as a treatment for tumors that feed on sex hormones.

Chemical Castration: Treatment, Procedure & Side Effects

Chemical castration refers to a medical treatment for some kinds of cancer. Chemical castration isn’t permanent.

my.clevelandclinic.org

So, when use of these drugs is to be used on perfectly healthy children it is to be made subject. Children are impressionable and a lot of these kids may be nurtured into thinking they are the opposite sex. It is important to protect them from abuses they may face at an early age from destroying their lives before they even know what it means. These drugs are for real medical conditions, not for any kid experiencing a fad of being transgender.

 

[complete]

Is it possible to be a liberal and Christian?

Share your thoughts, comment below. Why is your answer yes/no?

Hello @Chad,

Would you please define what being a liberal means, so that I can make a judgment? Is this a political question? Or is there a liberal faction within the Church, in contrast with a conservative faction? If so, how are they identified?

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Brother Paul]

I do agree since those elected officials on both sides seem to love money more than God and so it is really on the church to take care of the poor and do the very things Christ taught us to do by His grace & by His help.

And liberalism ad conservatism can be corrupted on both sides but I believe the poll was addressing liberalism as making moral compromises with favored social values which my former church did & got corrupted for why I voted against it.

The stance of politics that changes with the wind...is why we should not put confidence nor trust in man nor princes to do the will of God.

Psalm 118:8 It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man. 9 It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in princes.

Thank you for sharing, brother.

" liberalism as making moral compromises with favored social values"

An interesting definition though it sounds a bit politicized. Under this definition, most of us would agree but if conservative equals being nationalist and favoring the the top 2 or 3% at the expense of others, elevating a man or group of old whit men, like many of today's alleged conservatives, then that is just as heinous. These factors are why I refuse to identify with either extreme. You go one way because of some good they dangle like a carrot and you end up having to put up with all the hidden agenda they REALLY want to accomplish (both sides do this).

We definitely need more choice than one of the two that these two Parties choose for us to choose from. that is not actual choice at all.

 

[Brother Paul]

As an outsider, I can see clearly that conservatism and liberalism are being hijacked by political parties with an angle towards christianity for their own political gains. They make money. And those who blindly follow the political parties, they let their thought process seep and corrupt their spiritual identities.

Amen!

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

Is it possible to be a liberal and Christian?

Share your thoughts, comment below. Why is your answer yes/no?

What is our shared definition of Liberal that we are using?

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

Are we talking about Liberalism as a secular philosophical perspective related to humanity and freedoms?

Or are we talking about Liberalism as a political orientation geared towards the accomplishment of
specific agenda items?

Or are we talking about Liberalism as a Theological way of Biblical interpretation?

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

The word Liberal is often contrasted with the word conservative or other times Orthodox.

Liberal means to be "free thinking",
And Conservative relates to Conserving or preserving tradition or holding to certain foundational beliefs.


I can see Christians who have erred because they are trying to conserve some Bible teachings which are
based on improper interpretation of the scriptures.

And I see some Christians who try to think freely and move away from the grounded truth in the Bible.


I think scripture is truth and it is our authority, but I think we need to be take a step back and allow the
Holy Spirit to "freely" work in us so that we may come to know that truth.

Obviously a lot of the agenda points in the political Liberal movement is not Christ honoring,
yet I think we should always be free enough so that the Holy Spirit can work. Because God is not
a God that tells us not to think. He give us our minds for a reason, and we should remember that
the Pharisees were the ones holding to the tradition when Jesus came and his view seem
Liberal to the people of His day. But they were holding too tight and leaving no room for the
Holy Spirit to work in their hearts.

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

The word Liberal is often contrasted with the word conservative or other times Orthodox.

Liberal means to be "free thinking",
And Conservative relates to Conserving or preserving tradition or holding to certain foundational beliefs.


I can see Christians who have erred because they are trying to conserve some Bible teachings which are
based on improper interpretation of the scriptures.

And I see some Christians who try to think freely and move away from the grounded truth in the Bible.


I think scripture is truth and it is our authority, but I think we need to be take a step back and allow the
Holy Spirit to "freely" work in us so that we may come to know that truth.

Obviously a lot of the agenda points in the political Liberal movement is not Christ honoring,
I think we should always be free enough so that the Holy Spirit can work. Because God is not
a God that tells us not to think. He give us our minds for a reason, and we should remember that
the Pharisees were the ones holding to the tradition when Jesus came and his view seem
Liberal to the people of His day. But they were holding too tight and leaving no room for the
Holy Spirit to work in their hearts. So those are my thoughts on that.

Simply put.

Liberalism is bad when the "free thinking" is in order to remove oneself from the authority of God.

And

Conservatism is bad when what one is trying to preserve or hold on to is not the Truth and Love of God, or flawed by human fleshly biases and prejudices.


Any questions?

 

[complete]

'For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty;
only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh,
but by love serve one another.'
(Gal 5:13)

'But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours
become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.'
(1Co 8:9)

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

'For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty;
only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh,
but by love serve one another.'
(Gal 5:13)

'But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours
become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.'
(1Co 8:9)

Wow, beautiful.

What I was saying in my post but even better because you referenced scriptures. Thanks.

 

[Laeomis]

I rarely get into Paul about being liberal, but I mainly get it from King David's instruction to give liberally to every man. It's about strengthening the liberal hand. Here are a couple verses:

Proverbs 11:25-26

25The liberal soul shall be made fat: and he that watereth shall be watered also himself.

26He that withholdeth corn, the people shall curse him: but blessing shall be upon the head of him that selleth it.

Matthew 5:45

45That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 46For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 47And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? 48Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

There are many verses pro-liberal as there are pro-conservative. As Jesus says in Matthew, I think there has to be a healthy balance to strive for perfection like God is in heaven. God in his best aspect is providing for everyone.

I had never even heard of the extreme anti-liberal propaganda before the previous presidency. I knew there was a division between parties, but it got extreme last time. It had reached persecutory levels banning any liberal Christian.

I think Trump's eye-for-an-eye motto has gone to treason-for-treason. I agree some people on the left went as far as treason during the last presidency. That is no excuse to go that far back to be treasonous to the current President. That is what I think has happened, and who didn't see that coming?

Like James Madison the 4th President and others. Madison was enraged when he found certain sects persecuting other sects to the point of jailing them. This is why he promoted the separation of church and state. He was so angry at the persecution that he was almost ready to remove freedom of religion completely. Thomas Jefferson persuaded him to do otherwise, and he was eventually glad to provide the freedom.

This is a main reason why the church was separated from the state in the first place though. Keep persecuting one denomination for another and it will happen again and worse than the others. To make sure that one crazy interpretation does not try to persecute another one out of the nation.

 

[Brother Paul]

I rarely get into Paul about being liberal, but I mainly get it from King David's instruction to give liberally to every man. It's about strengthening the liberal hand. Here are a couple verses:

Proverbs 11:25-26


Matthew 5:45


There are many verses pro-liberal as there are pro-conservative. As Jesus says in Matthew, I think there has to be a healthy balance to strive for perfection like God is in heaven. God in his best aspect is providing for everyone.

I had never even heard of the extreme anti-liberal propaganda before the previous presidency. I knew there was a division between parties, but it got extreme last time. It had reached persecutory levels banning any liberal Christian.

I think Trump's eye-for-an-eye motto has gone to treason-for-treason. I agree some people on the left went as far as treason during the last presidency. That is no excuse to go that far back to be treasonous to the current President. That is what I think has happened, and who didn't see that coming?

Like James Madison the 4th President and others. Madison was enraged when he found certain sects persecuting other sects to the point of jailing them. This is why he promoted the separation of church and state. He was so angry at the persecution that he was almost ready to remove freedom of religion completely. Thomas Jefferson persuaded him to do otherwise, and he was eventually glad to provide the freedom.

This is a main reason why the church was separated from the state in the first place though. Keep persecuting one denomination for another and it will happen again and worse than the others. To make sure that one crazy interpretation does not try to persecute another one out of the nation.

"
I had never even heard of the extreme anti-liberal propaganda before the previous presidency. I knew there was a division between parties, but it got extreme last time. It had reached persecutory levels banning any liberal Christian.

I think Trump's eye-for-an-eye motto has gone to treason-for-treason. I agree some people on the left went as far as treason during the last presidency. That is no excuse to go that far back to be treasonous to the current President. That is what I think has happened, and who didn't see that coming?"

Yeah and very condemning in this case are the newly revealed Meadow's texts. But as true followers of Jesus (not the phony left and right political types) ours IS to love our neighbor as our self and find the way to strike the right balance. The extremes in both parties seem to be the root cause (with money or power motives) of most of the disputes and problems. We are to do our best to be His BODY (with Him as our head) until the Parousia (His return) to which I say Maranatha Lord

 

[Laeomis]

"
I had never even heard of the extreme anti-liberal propaganda before the previous presidency. I knew there was a division between parties, but it got extreme last time. It had reached persecutory levels banning any liberal Christian.

I think Trump's eye-for-an-eye motto has gone to treason-for-treason. I agree some people on the left went as far as treason during the last presidency. That is no excuse to go that far back to be treasonous to the current President. That is what I think has happened, and who didn't see that coming?"

Yeah and very condemning in this case are the newly revealed Meadow's texts. But as true followers of Jesus (not the phony left and right political types) ours IS to love our neighbor as our self and find the way to strike the right balance. The extremes in both parties seem to be the root cause (with money or power motives) of most of the disputes and problems. We are to do our best to be His BODY (with Him as our head) until the Parousia (His return) to which I say Maranatha Lord

I think if the persecution goes on like this, then one side will ban the other for good. Like what happened during the founding of this country when the people had become so frustrated at certain powers that religion was condemned. It couldn't have been condemned unless it had sinned so far against Jesus Christ as to remove itself from his actual body Romans 8:1.

Solomon says to avoid all extremes if you fear God in Ecclesiastes 7:16-18

16
Do not be overrighteous, neither be overwise-- why destroy yourself?
17
Do not be overwicked, and do not be a fool-- why die before your time?
18
It is good to grasp the one and not let go of the other. The man who fears God will avoid all [extremes]. [1]

In Revelations Jesus is telling us to be an extreme of fire or ice, but to buy enough gold, white clothes and eye salve to back it up.

Revelation 3:14-21

To the Church in Laodicea
14 “To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:

These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God’s creation. 15 I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16 So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth. 17 You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. 18 I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see.

19 Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent. 20 Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.

21 To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne. 22 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”