Long Hair or Sex Change?

[CrazyForChrist]

This may be an odd name for a thread, but im not sure how else to start it. I was recently reading Corinthians when i came across this verse

" 14Doth not even nature teach you that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?
15But if a woman have long hair,it is a glory to her: for her hair is given to her for covering." Cor 11:14 Cor 11:15


Now at first i thought this was literal, that men+long hair = big no no. But then another understanding came upon me. That long haired symbolized woman-hood. It is bad for a man to be a woman, or as today we call it "sex change". Anyone have anythoughts? I thought men back then had long hair.
Also in a previous verse it said, " Every man praying ... , having his head coverd, dishonoreth his head. Cor 11:4

Also to the woman, " But every woman that prayeth ... with her head uncovered dishonoreth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven." Cor 11:4 Cor 11:5




Now if anyone could shed any light on this topic that would be deliciously awsome. Im quite stumped. God Bless and infinite Jesus' Hugs to you all!

 

[SpiritLedEd]

This may be an odd name for a thread, but im not sure how else to start it. I was recently reading Corinthians when i came across this verse

" 14Doth not even nature teach you that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?
15But if a woman have long hair,it is a glory to her: for her hair is given to her for covering." Cor 11:14 Cor 11:15


Now at first i thought this was literal, that men+long hair = big no no. But then another understanding came upon me. That long haired symbolized woman-hood. It is bad for a man to be a woman, or as today we call it "sex change". Anyone have anythoughts? I thought men back then had long hair.
Also in a previous verse it said, " Every man praying ... , having his head coverd, dishonoreth his head. Cor 11:4

Also to the woman, " But every woman that prayeth ... with her head uncovered dishonoreth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven." Cor 11:4 Cor 11:5




Now if anyone could shed any light on this topic that would be deliciously awsome. Im quite stumped. God Bless and infinite Jesus' Hugs to you all!

I suspect that the definition of long hair in 2007 is a great deal different than it was in the first century. I suspect that it was normal in first century Palestine that a woman's identity involved hair hanging down well below her shoulders and for men, shoulder length hair (which is considered long hair today), was seen as short hair and central to their identity as males.

SLE

 

[Eve]

Hi CFC,

'A woman must not wear men's clothing, nor a man wear women's clothing, for the LORD your God detests anyone who does this.' (Deut 22:5).

God Bless

Eve

 

[billyeah]

I agree as well that what we call long hair is a bit different than 2000 years ago. Womens hair went past her waist and was really long. Mens hair like was said before was usually probably shoulder length or shorter.

As far as the covering or un-covering portion goes, I think it breaks down like this. Men should have short hair. And when they pray, they should do it without anything on their heads. No hats or caps or anything. Women should have long hair. I know people with short hair might disagree, but the bible is pretty clear about this. Long hair is a glory to her, let it grow. As far as actually covering the head altogether with a shawl or something, that's up to interpretation. I come from a mennonite background where the women all wear headcoverings. I don't think it's necessary, but each to their own.

God Bless

Bill

 

[CrazyForChrist]

Thank you all, but i am still a bit confused on the wearing something upon the head while praying?

 

[Dreamer]

Women should wear women's clothing, have their hair cut and styled in a feminine matter (not necessarily short, but please, no "crew-cuts"), and act like a woman, because God made us that way.

Men should wear men's clothing, and not pray with a hat on because it is disrepectful.

 

[billyeah]

Here is how I have been taught. The line of authority goes something like this

God
l
Jesus
l
Man
l
Woman
l
Children

The man shouldn't cover his head because he is the image of God. The woman because she is under the authority of man, should cover her head.

Does that make sense?

 

[Jonah2005bt]

1 Corinthians 11:3,5-10
3 Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.
5 every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is just as though her head were shaved.
6 If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head.
7 A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man.
8 For man did not come from woman, but woman from man;
9 neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.
10 For this reason, and because of the angels, the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head.

I like wearing a head covering in prayer or when ever I may sit in a Bible Study when ever there are men around.

Because not only are we showing respect to our husbands or to man by doing so, but more important then that, we'er showing resect to GOD.

This is why a woman ought to show some sign on her head that she is respecting authority. And GOD'S Angels take notice of this. And who are GOD'S Angels but HIS Messages from Heaven. {1 Corinthians 11:10} And they do watch us. {Hebrews 13:2}

For if the Bible is The Word of The Almighty GOD & in the Bible states that women should wear a head covering in respect to her husband, Jesus Christ & The Almighty GOD - then she should.

I feel that GOD'S Word has not changed but it's man that has changed.

Should we follow man or should follow GOD's Word?

By all means let us all follow GOD'S Word.

 

[kenwyn]

I found this helpful...

The New Testament challenges exaggerated difference between the sexes (In Christ there is no male or female), but this does not mean that gender difference disappears entirely. It remains in two areas: marriage and physical appearance.

It remains in marriage, which should be between one man and one woman. That is the point Paul makes in Romans 1. He says homosexual or lesbian relationships are wrong because they do not reflect the difference between men and women that God created. It also remains in the difference in male and female physical appearance.

Difference also remains in the difference in male and female physical appearance. We see this most clearly in 1 Corinthians 11.3-5: “I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of the woman, and God is the head of Christ. Any man who prays or prophesies with something on his head disgraces his head, but any woman who prays or prophesies with her head unveiled disgraces her head.”

These words have caused enormous disputes over the centuries because the English word “head” carries the suggestion of authority.

But it seems clear that this passage uses “head” to mean something like “source”, as we sometimes use “head” to refer to the source of a river, or “first in order of creation”. Paul was referring back to the Genesis creation account.

This becomes obvious when we consider the order in which God, Christ, man and woman are mentioned. If Paul were talking about a hierarchy in which the Father is in authority over the son, the son in authority over the man and the man in authority over the woman, he would have mentioned them in that order. But they are not. Instead, the four are mentioned in the chronological order in which these figures came to earth.

Man, Adam, has his origin in Christ, the Word of God who was before all things, as John tells us. The first woman, Eve, had her origin in the man – she was made from his side. Lastly, when Christ came to earth in human form, he had his origin in God – he came to earth from the godhead of which he was and still is a part. So in verses 4 and 5 Paul is saying that because of this order in which these figures were created – or in Jesus’ case came to earth – men should avoid covering their heads and women should veil themselves (ie should look different).

Their culture’s way of observing difference was for women to veil themselves. Modern Western culture’s way is through men only wearing trousers and women sometimes wearing skirts, make-up, etc. Our appearance should show recognition of God’s work in creating men and women distinct from each other.

This does not mean that women must wear skirts and have long hair. It means simply that if you are a woman, people looking at you should know you are a woman. And if you are a man people looking at you should know you are a man.

As a word of warning to anyone tempted to read male authority into the passage, Paul adds verses 11 and 12. “For just as woman came from man, so man comes through woman, but all things come from God.”

​

 

[Eve]

Hi All,

There once was a time when it was proper for all women to show respect for man and the Lord and wear a hat/scarf to cover her head. There was a time when a man would doff his hat as he passed a woman in the street as mark of respect to her and would always hold the door open for a woman.

What a shame that these outward signs of mutual respect are not common practice anymore.

In Corinthians it refers to both the woman's hair and a covering for her hair.

However, that said the most important thing is to seek Jesus not so much an outward symbol or practise etc...

I now wear a covering for my hair when I pray or go to church and sometimes in general but it is not common practice in my church to do so.

God Bless

Eve

 

[CrazyForChrist]

I wish not to offend anyone, but it sounds like a dead cultural belief. It does not sound Jesus-like nor reasonable. I can understand the meaning behind the actions, but it still sounds very outdated to a period of time when woman were only a tool. Any thoughts anyone?

 

[billyeah]

I can see what your saying, but my problem with that is this....who are you to say what in the Bible is out dated and what isn't? If we start giving ourselves that kind of liberty, then I think we are in some deep trouble. This isn't about some sort of cultural tradition. It's about following God's commands. It can be interpreted that a woman should wear a head covering. Others maintain that she her hair is her covering. It is interesting to note though, up until maybe 75 years ago, women covered their heads to pray at least, if not all the time. Suddenly we get into the womens lib movement and what the bible says isn't quite as important anymore. The chapter does say a bit further along, "if any man be contentios, we have no such commands, neither does the church of God." Some may say see, we don't have to! But for me, I wonder...why would you want to be contentios? I leave it up to you to descide.

 

[Chad]

Hi CFC,

'A woman must not wear men's clothing, nor a man wear women's clothing, for the LORD your God detests anyone who does this.' (Deut 22:5).

God Bless

Eve

Amen to that. Sadly, transvestites are a good example today of rebelling against this simple rule.

I can see what your saying, but my problem with that is this....who are you to say what in the Bible is out dated and what isn't? If we start giving ourselves that kind of liberty, then I think we are in some deep trouble. This isn't about some sort of cultural tradition. It's about following God's commands. It can be interpreted that a woman should wear a head covering. Others maintain that she her hair is her covering. It is interesting to note though, up until maybe 75 years ago, women covered their heads to pray at least, if not all the time. Suddenly we get into the womens lib movement and what the bible says isn't quite as important anymore. The chapter does say a bit further along, "if any man be contentios, we have no such commands, neither does the church of God." Some may say see, we don't have to! But for me, I wonder...why would you want to be contentios? I leave it up to you to descide.

Well said brother. The Bible is impossible to be outdated. How can something from GOD, infinitely wise and out of time and space be outdated? Impossible. The Bible is the Living Word. If it stopped "living" it would be outdated, but we all know that Jesus is the Word and amen, He is alive! Therefore, the Word holds true then, now and forever.

Matthew 24:35
Sky and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.

“Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things.”- Philippians 4:8

 

[kenwyn]

I think the biblical principle is that men should look like men and women should look like women.

Our task is to interpret that in our culture today.

Remember that John the Baptist and Samson both wore their hair long.

 

[billyeah]

Do we have biblical evidence John had long hair?

 

[Jonah2005bt]

Thank kenwyn, for sharing this us, it is well said & to the point. And it help me out too! *genesis

I found this helpful...

The New Testament challenges exaggerated difference between the sexes (In Christ there is no male or female), but this does not mean that gender difference disappears entirely. It remains in two areas: marriage and physical appearance.

It remains in marriage, which should be between one man and one woman. That is the point Paul makes in Romans 1. He says homosexual or lesbian relationships are wrong because they do not reflect the difference between men and women that God created. It also remains in the difference in male and female physical appearance.

Difference also remains in the difference in male and female physical appearance. We see this most clearly in 1 Corinthians 11.3-5: “I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of the woman, and God is the head of Christ. Any man who prays or prophesies with something on his head disgraces his head, but any woman who prays or prophesies with her head unveiled disgraces her head.”

These words have caused enormous disputes over the centuries because the English word “head” carries the suggestion of authority.

But it seems clear that this passage uses “head” to mean something like “source”, as we sometimes use “head” to refer to the source of a river, or “first in order of creation”. Paul was referring back to the Genesis creation account.

This becomes obvious when we consider the order in which God, Christ, man and woman are mentioned. If Paul were talking about a hierarchy in which the Father is in authority over the son, the son in authority over the man and the man in authority over the woman, he would have mentioned them in that order. But they are not. Instead, the four are mentioned in the chronological order in which these figures came to earth.

Man, Adam, has his origin in Christ, the Word of God who was before all things, as John tells us. The first woman, Eve, had her origin in the man – she was made from his side. Lastly, when Christ came to earth in human form, he had his origin in God – he came to earth from the godhead of which he was and still is a part. So in verses 4 and 5 Paul is saying that because of this order in which these figures were created – or in Jesus’ case came to earth – men should avoid covering their heads and women should veil themselves (ie should look different).

Their culture’s way of observing difference was for women to veil themselves. Modern Western culture’s way is through men only wearing trousers and women sometimes wearing skirts, make-up, etc. Our appearance should show recognition of God’s work in creating men and women distinct from each other.

This does not mean that women must wear skirts and have long hair. It means simply that if you are a woman, people looking at you should know you are a woman. And if you are a man people looking at you should know you are a man.

As a word of warning to anyone tempted to read male authority into the passage, Paul adds verses 11 and 12. “For just as woman came from man, so man comes through woman, but all things come from God.”

​

 

[Jonah2005bt]

Hi All,

There once was a time when it was proper for all women to show respect for man and the Lord and wear a hat/scarf to cover her head. There was a time when a man would doff his hat as he passed a woman in the street as mark of respect to her and would always hold the door open for a woman.

What a shame that these outward signs of mutual respect are not common practice anymore.

In Corinthians it refers to both the woman's hair and a covering for her hair.

However, that said the most important thing is to seek Jesus not so much an outward symbol or practise etc...

I now wear a covering for my hair when I pray or go to church and sometimes in general but it is not common practice in my church to do so.

God Bless

Eve

Quite true, the respect that once was so common is now lost & hardly ever in sight. Reminds me of something that Jesus said in Matthew 24:12; "the love of many will grow cold."

The whole chappter of Matthew 24 is one to learn from of the last days,too. I believe we are now living in the last days!

 

[CrazyForChrist]

I think the biblical principle is that men should look like men and women should look like women.

Our task is to interpret that in our culture today.

Remember that John the Baptist and Samson both wore their hair long.

I completely agree with this statement.

So if a woman didnt have a hat on when she prayed that is bad? What if a woman did not have a hat? Should she not pray at all?

 

[Faithin1]

One thing for sure, God is not the author of confusion. I think that the concept of men looking and behaving as men, and women looking and behaving as women, is of particular relevance today. If I had a dime for each time I recently have not been able to determine a person's gender, I would be rich indeed. Not to mention the dangling earrings men are wearing. Some women look so masculine that if they don't have noticeable breasts, you don't know if they are male or female. It is truly a sign of the times we are living in.

 

[Jonah2005bt]

I completely agree with this statement.

So if a woman didnt have a hat on when she prayed that is bad? What if a woman did not have a hat? Should she not pray at all?

Well, we can always go into a private room & pray.

But nontheless, if for some reason we need to pray & are with out a head covering, I'm sure The Almighty will understand.

But, remember we women wear a head covering only out of respect to our husbands, where he is head of the woman {and therefore house hold}.

And out of respect to GOD & Jesus Christ where as they are both head of man & women.

As it is written: For this reason, and because of the angels, the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head. {1 Corinthians 11:10}