Marriage, a failure of church & Christian

[MontanaCowboy]

As I sit here wondering why I am about to be dragged into a divorce by a Christian woman, I wonder why? And to answer the question before you ask, No, there is no biblical reason for her to seek a divorce unless she has been committing adultery on me during our separation.

Why is it that the Christian divorce rates are equal to secular divorce rates? Is not marriage to a Christian man or woman also a Covenant with God as well? WHERE IS OUR FAITH, OUR CONVICTION, OUR SUBMISSION TO HIS WILL?

When I was not a Christian, I divorced without care. But since I have been saved I find a Christian divorce is an abomination to me because it is to God. Why are so many Christians so willing to get divorced so freely, knowing that we are not meeting God's standard for a divorce and thereby knowingly sinning in God's face? Why are Christians so willing to disobey Jesus and throw our marriages away so easily? What is driving this tend?

Is it the failure of the church? I mean many churches today only preach the feel good message. They don't talk about Jesus coming back as a Lion & judging people, casting the ones he does not know, or who were luke warm for him, into hell. Nor do they ban the sinful spouse who seeks the divorce from the church unless he/she repents. Its like well OK Joe (or Sue), just keep sending the check every week & you can get a divorce, Jesus will forgive you.


Or is it simply the selfishness of ourselves who are to blame? We don't want to fight for the righteous act of keeping a marriage together anymore. No we would rather take the easy way out, even though it is a horrible sin that tears apart what God has joined together as well as crushes our children & other loved ones & families.

I remind you, Faith without works is dead & dead faith equals hell. Use Jesus's blood not to just forgive your sins but to also be born again & to change your evil ways. What did Jesus say to the prostitute, the woman at the well, etc? He said, Go and sin no more. We can't keep sinning freely like this, as an individual Christian, as an individual church or as the body of Christ as a whole.

It just fills me with anger & embarrassment that we who call ourselves Christians can disobey the Lord so easily & so often. Christian marriages should remain together 100% of the time. Even if we are having a "bad year" as Christians overall, maybe 95%. But to be consistently equal with the secular population at a 50% divorce rate, we are failing Christ beyond belief & our moral inability to witness to the secular people is at the very least, worthless and worse, part of the reason for all the immorality in the world.

Think about it. Are we not damned if we continue on this path of selfish behavior? Is this not the most urgent thing Christians need to correct? Per God's command, Marriage is forever, right? A Christian Marriage glorifies God, a Christian divorce only bears false witness against God that he is impotent to keep marriage as a sacred & holy Covenant of his people, of his flock. Of course we know the truth, it is our selfish flesh we would rather serve then the Covenant of marriage & all of our past testimony for God all becomes nothing but hypocritical hype.

So I ask you all, what can we do to start to change this downward to hell trend NOW?

 

[Lion_of_Judah]

My answer to your many questions..





the answer to the mystery is in His Word..





Psalm 42:7 Deep calls to deep.





God bless your journey in Him, MCowboy,

LoJ

 

[jiggyfly]

There is a solution MC, but it get's confused with many of the religious activities that man has concocted. The solution is to grow in Christ and is quite different than growing in biblical knowledge or familiarity with religious liturgy and tradition.

There are plenty of examples in the new testament scriptures that show these same differences. Jesus had around 500 followers at the time of His ascension, He also had at least 72 disciples, and yet a much smaller number of disciples that became His apostles. Was it scriptural knowledge that set them apart? Was it their obedience to the law and practice of religious tradition? Maybe it was their social skills or their commitment to gathering with each other frequently? Is it possibly their compassion towards others in need? No, it was none of these things, it was simply their level of intimacy with Christ.

It seems that many today have it backwards. Many go to church, tithe, support missions, participate in liturgy faithfully, thinking that doing all these things will bring them closer to Christ. While it does make you a better church member it doesn't make you more intimate with Christ.

One of my favorite accounts in Acts is found in chapter 4 verse 13. *

Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus.

 

[MontanaCowboy]

There is a solution MC, but it get's confused with many of the religious activities that man has concocted. The solution is to grow in Christ and is quite different than growing in biblical knowledge or familiarity with religious liturgy and tradition. *

Jiggy, You hit the nail on the head. It is intimacy with Christ that makes our relationship with him effect you in the way he desires. We are the bride & we need to become 1 with our groom & to do so we must act as one with Him. Not live an independent worldly life with him as the groom of an unintended bride.

 

[01redeemed]

Yes!

Without a true desire to please the Lord, which comes from an intimate relationship with Him, there is only selfishness to be had!


God grant me the Serenity to accept the things I cannot change, The courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

This always helps keep things in perspective for me...may it bless you as well!

Pray for her and wait upon the Lord.

 

[stephen]

A challenging question brother M/C

Before I read your reply, I had copied brother jiggy's line

No, it was none of these things, it was simply their level of intimacy with Christ

I feel that sums it up.......We need to be more devoted to His cause, and relationship with Him.

All are guilty !

 

[Repent2BSaved]

When I was not a Christian, I divorced without care.

That is it right there. Perhaps your wife had a false conversion. You can still memorize scripture and go to church even if you are not "truly" saved. You can even speak in tongues! Did you know that the head of Freedom from Religion, Dan Barker, was a pastor for 17 years? He could speak in tongues. He drove all over the country helping others get saved. He says he still has people send him letters and emails to thank him for helping them get saved.

Now he is an athiest. He changed his mind.

??????????

How does that happen if you have the Holy Spirit in you?

It doesn't. Dan was never truly repentant of his sins. He was like the pharisees, the whitewashed tombs full of dead men's bones. (Matt. 23:27). Repentance and Faith go hand in hand. The New Testament has many entries (over 40) for Christians to repent (daily- gotta keep on top of it), and for new believers to repent. It is a crucial step for salvation. Faith alone does not get the job done. If you don't clean out your temple (repent) there is not room for God. You can't serve 2 masters.

I know this because I was falsely converted when I was young. I skipped the repentance, and my life drifted away from what God wanted to whatever I wanted. A true Christian WANTS to replace their "self" for God. And in a true Christian marriage you desire the happiness of your partner, not your self. If they do the same, then it works great. When you marry, you join with God. That should cause people to jump out of bed in the morning and say "Praise God! And thank you for my loving husband/wife!!"

I will pray for you brother. In some way, God will get Glory from this situation. Keep praying and staying in the word!

Mae

 

[MontanaCowboy]

Wonderful post Repent2bsaved, I could not agree with you more. Christians need to stop seeing Jesus's blood as free gift that holds no responsibility for its use. So much is aid b=about bearing fruit or being cut from the vine, even a window of opportunity can be argued from John 15 (I believe) from what Christ said while hanging on the cross.
To many feel good do as you want & you are forgiven anyway believers out there. Tat is one of the reasons we are now hated, because so many false witnesses have tainted his blood & used his forgiveness to victimize many in his name.
And I freely admit that I was one of them when I was a new Christian. But if you truly ask, seek & knock God will open your eyes to the wisdom of repentance & servitude.
Blessings
MC

 

[comingjoy]

Being one who had a spouse walk out with out biblical cause I know how hurtful it can be.

Intimacy begins with Christ. I have been hearing changes in how Christians see marriages and even dating. There is a trend amongst Christians that it is even okay to be intimate before marriage.

One must go into the relationship the way God intended. With respect and honor for each other but most of all for HIM.

If we begin a relationship with someone away from how God intended it to be then we are already starting off on the wrong foot. We can not expect God to bless us if we are intimate before marriage. Intimacy is meant to be for a husband and a wife. Christ is the husband and we are HIS bride.

Our standards no longer reflect we are HIS it is being lead by the flesh not by the spirit. We justifiy what we are doing. How do I know this? Sad to say I also thought this way.

Intimacy FIRST with Christ then He will show us who HE knows is right for us. Wait on His timing doing it HIS way.

It is hard to understand but we each are givin free will. God hates divorce but HE wont make the other person stay no matter how much we want them too. BUT our Father WILL and does bring healing.

 

[Repent2BSaved]

Our standards no longer reflect we are HIS it is being lead by the flesh not by the spirit.

Exactly right. And very sad. We are in some evil, corrupt times. The last 20 years have really been all about me, me, me, more so than any other time in history.

We must keep praying and holding each other up in prayer. We all need all the help that we can give each other. We can be comforted during these heartaches when we remember what Christ did to atone for us. Every time I think of Him being crucified, I just shudder imagining the pain, and I start to cry.

But you are right, joy cometh in the morning!

MontanaCowboy- Heaven awaits with no more tears or sorrow. Keep your eyes on Jesus.

 

[Lion_of_Judah]

How does that happen if you have the Holy Spirit in you?

Sadly, it can. Just read this scripture yesterday:

Hebrews 6:4-6

>KJV
4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened,
and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance;
seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.


>NIV
4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened,
who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit,

5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age,

6 if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss
they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

A person doesn't loose their salvation as such..

They walk away from it.

 

[Repent2BSaved]

Sadly, it can. Just read this scripture yesterday:

Hebrews 6:4-6

>KJV
4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened,
and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance;
seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.


>NIV
4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened,
who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit,

5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age,

6 if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss
they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

I have read that scripture as well, and the key word in both passages is "IMPOSSIBLE". God is saying it does not happen that way. That you cannot have Christ in you and then turn your back. The Holy Spirit does not go away, and you cannot serve 2 masters. I believe that it is more likely to happen to someone who never really had the Holy Spirit to begin with. You can usually tell by their fruit, if the vine is actually alive and growing or dead/lifeless. This is the problem with people who "feel" their Christianity. (I don't feel God; It feels like I am alone and God is not listening, etc etc.) God is always with us once we have been truly saved. Accept that truth and continue in the way you have been taught (the bible) and keep moving towards God and a closer relationship with him.

I have seen it in my life many, many times. A friend of mine is currently divorced from her abusive, alcoholic husband. We knew him since high school and he was abusive and alcoholic then. She married him anyway. He got "saved" and water baptized so that she would finally marry him. He tried for awhile, went to church, was preaching to his friends, but 6 months later he was back to his old self. She stayed for many years, but now they are divorced because she just could not handle his abuse anymore. How strange? When did the abuse start? What? Before you got married? That was not a tip-off to not marry this man? How odd. Prior to this, she was with a guy for 5 years. She managed to get him water baptized and going to church for awhile, but he fell away too. (That is TWO ex-Christians that she has helped to their eternity).

Sometimes it takes longer, but if the fruit doesn't start growing right away, if there is not a continual progression towards God, some people just start letting those little sins creep in and take over. They do not even know how complacent they are, and the church seems to be afraid of saying something to them. We are all called to correct our brothers and sisters in the love of our common Saviour Christ Jesus. How I wish someone had done that for me, instead of being nice and praying I would change. Not as helpful, really. A defiant spirit can keep you in your sins forever (eternity in hell anyone?)

Now my friend is single (divorced) and dating a man who is not a Christian (see the pattern? find a guy you like and then try to convert him) and wondering why her life never seems to get better. She never actively seeks out Christian men.

This same "Christian" friend shared the gospel with me 30 years ago. And I followed her lead and now I know that I probably never really repented of my sins; or at least I did not understand the concept of daily repentance and turning away. And neither did she. Or else why is her life like this? Fortunately, God has been working in my life since I was a little child ( I can remember these times), so the watering my friend did with me was not the only time I had heard God calling to me. And I have prayed many times that God keep me in His hand and not let me go, because I wanted to do right by Him. Even if I wasn't.

Last autumn, God got right into my heart while I was listening to Christian radio on Sirius satellite everyday. I had a long commute and different shifts to work and got to hear a lot of really great pastors and speakers and I was convicted big time. Dr. Charles Stanley, Kirk Cameron, Todd Friel, Ray Comfort, Billy Graham and his family, and (if sports were on) lots of Christian music. It was the wake up call that I needed to get right with God. That is why I believe that repentance and faith are the two most important points in the gospel.

People must understand that they have to repent and turn away, or they just fall back into old or new bad patterns.

God does not want His children to live in defeat and unhappiness. Which is not to say that there will not be pain- that is the reality of sin in our lives. But if we are close to God and in His word daily, mining it for special treasures of wisdom, our happiness will be in the joy of knowing our creator and saviour. And nothing else matters after that. Heaven is coming- that is when we will be perfect and have no more tears or sorrow for eternity.

Mae

Sorry MC- did not mean to hi-jack your thread with my "book" above. I am just a lot more passionate about God than I used to be. I am still praying for you. Keep the faith!

 

[comingjoy]

Love is a choice. We each need to decide every morning if we will love or not. To often one hears I fell in love. No we made a choice. If we have not received the love of Christ then how can one really know what it means to be loved so they can love?

It has become way to easy in our country to leave when things get tough. When my ex walked out the courts did not care he had no reason to leave. I did not have people feel remorse nor did I see a lot of saddness. What I heard was well divorce rates are just as high with Christians as with non Christians.

It hurts to know that it does not stir us into action. It is a domino affect. THe pain and damage that occurs when two divorce effects more then just them. It also effect society.

 

[MontanaCowboy]

Repent2bsaved, no worries about hijacking my thread. I enjoyed what you wrote & concur with it too! We are in the same boat, I feel more passionate about the Lord than even too. Satan is trying his hardest to turn my pain to anger vs mercy, love & forgiveness & he is also trying to get me to blame God as I have been here before.

Simple fact is, like ComingJoy has said, we choose to love. We all free will. And pray all you want about someone else, if they are not asking, seeking or knocking the Lord will not force them to do our will (or His). So I know it is not Gods fault but Thanks & praise be to him, my relationship with Him is getting more intimate as He carries me through this fire. I am blessed in that!

 

[Lion_of_Judah]

I have read that scripture as well, and the key word in both passages is "IMPOSSIBLE". God is saying it does not happen that way.

That you cannot have Christ in you and then turn your back

. I have seen it in my life many, many times. A friend of mine is currently divorced from her abusive, alcoholic husband. We knew him since high school and he was abusive and alcoholic then. She married him anyway. He got "saved" and water baptized so that she would finally marry him.

She managed to get him water baptized and going to church for awhile, but he fell away too.

I can't agree with your analysis R2BS.

When you boil down your arguement: the element of free will choice is removed at the point of Jesus coming into you.

Are you suggesting a person is unable, and unwilling to freely walk away from Christ once they ask Him into their life?
That once they truely accept Christ, it is impossible for them to walk away from Him?

If this is what you are concluding, then what your saying is that at the point of salvation, a person is reduced
to a walking robot...
who'll never ever again have the free will to "turn their back" on Christ.


Your free will is still intact to steal a pen at the grocery store,
as much as it is to walk away from the free gift of salvation.


I think your missing the independent nature of the sentence. This would be the sentence:

It is impossible for those who were once enlightened to renew them again unto repentance.

Does that make sense?
In other words, when the adjective, adverb and dependent clauses are removed from the sentence, you have
the independent clause of the sentence left. Which is the foundation of what's being spoken about.

When you read this sentence, it makes sense that if someone is enlightened...
they would not need to be renewed again unto repentance, because they have already repented.

This scripture is spoken in past-tense. Someone who tasted, were made partakers,
who have tasted the goodness of the Word, but to their loss, have fallen away.



The issue of an alcoholic is altogether separate from salvation.


God bless you with understanding and wisdom,

LoJ

 

[Repent2BSaved]

When you boil down your arguement: the element of free will choice is removed at the point of Jesus coming into you.

Are you suggesting a person is unable, and unwilling to freely walk away from Christ once they ask Him into their life?
That once they truely accept Christ, it is impossible for them to walk away from Him?

I am suggesting that once the Holy Spirit takes up residence with us, He does not just go away once you are done with Him. My belief (correct me if I am wrong) is that not all who think they are saved are truly saved. They may follow all the steps and appear to be Christian, but may not truly have repented. Their hearts are not right with Jesus to begin with, so the Holy Spirit is not a real part of their lives. Of course, then He is easy to leave because He was never really there. They may have heard God calling - as He calls us all with the beauty of His creation- however they may not have really heeded ( is that a word??) the call.

I just read the paragraphs above and below in the scripture and that is what I got from it. Not that you cannot walk away, but that the Holy Spirit doesn't just get evicted.

In other words, when the adjective, adverb and dependent clauses are removed from the sentence, you have the independent clause of the sentence left. Which is the foundation of what's being spoken about.

No, I don't quite get your meaning here. Please enlighten me. I want to be clear which words we are focusing on here so that I can follow along on your train of thought.

This scripture is spoken in past-tense. Someone who tasted, were made partakers,

who have tasted the goodness of the Word, but to their loss, have fallen away.

Does this mean they are saved or that they have heard the Word but chose not continue on with it? My bible shows this exact debate, with some who believe Paul is talking about those who were saved, but renounced their faith vs. those who prefessed a faith and through outward appearance seem to be Christians, but then changed their minds but were they really saved?

The issue of an alcoholic is altogether separate from salvation.

This is only in reference that his god was alcohol and he wanted to follow this god rather than Our Living God. And because he became a Christian just to get his wife to marry him, then their is a good evidence that he was not truly repentant and also not willing to rely on God to clean up his life for him.

God bless you with understanding and wisdom,

LoJ

My prayer every day! I hope He does too!

 

[MontanaCowboy]

Does not Jesus himself give the exact same message as R2BS is saying when he talks about the seeds. Some fall on hard ground & never take root. Some fall in cracks and start to take root but then they die because they never take root. And others will fall in soft (think heart) soil & take root & grow producing more seeds.

Obviously you can think you are a Christian but Christ never really took root in your heart & soul. Therefore you will die.

 

[Lion_of_Judah]

Some fall on hard ground & never take root. Some fall in cracks and start to take root but then they die because they never take root. And others will fall in soft (think heart) soil & take root & grow producing more seeds.

Obviously you can think you are a Christian but Christ never really took root in your heart & soul. Therefore you will die.

Good analogy to bring up MC. Very appropriate.

I am suggesting that once the Holy Spirit takes up residence with us, He does not just go away once you are done with Him. They may follow all the steps and appear to be Christian, but may not truly have repented. Their hearts are not right with Jesus to begin with, so the Holy Spirit is not a real part of their lives.

Not that you cannot walk away, but that the Holy Spirit doesn't just get evicted.

Does this mean they are saved or that they have heard the Word but chose not continue on with it?

Paul is talking about those who were saved, but renounced their faith vs. those who professed a faith and through outward appearance seem to be Christians, but then changed their minds, but were they really saved?

This is well said too R2BS.

I'm sure, as you'd agree, the HS doesn't get evicted.. but could He, or would He, just leave..?

You bring up a very good point.
I do know someone (who used to be very close) who recieved the HS, spoke in tongues, and now has just walked away over the years and has become a bitter/angry person. Unresolved issues in their life, and blame toward God for such things not working out.. I just wonder?

One scripture which came to mind is that "the gifts and callings of God are without repentence" Romans 11:29

There have been individuals who have shown the gifts of God exhibited in their lives, and yet have gone off track.

I'm no expert on the word concerning this subject. Tryin to figure it out along the way like yourself and others.

No, I don't quite get your meaning here. Please enlighten me. I want to be clear which words
we are focusing on here so that I can follow along on your train of thought.

Out of time this morning.. I'll get back to you on that ; )

Have a great day in God all,
LoJ

 

[Repent2BSaved]

Well, getting back to the original post, I just think it is deplorable how the church is letting all this stuff just slide on by. Yes, I know, we ARE the church. But it is like these new churches do not understand the concept of 'brotherhood' at all. Where are the people you fellowship with? Are they helping this situation or adding to your pain?

I think most churches have these small pockets of people who are close to each other, but not so much to the rest of the congregation. It is hard to have fellowship with people that don't know you. I just left a church that was quite large, but due to my working on most weekends, it was hard for me to connect. This is different from the last 2 churches I attended, which were smaller and cozier (I moved both times). I also found that people did not make much effort to connect to me either, maybe because they sat waaaaaay over there and I sat waaaaay over here?

Who can I look to for advice and help if not my Christian brothers and sisters? I think God wants us to seek the advice of Godly counsel- which is our brotherhood of believers. If we are all sticking together (which is what fellowship is) then other Christians should be able to catch wind of things and get on top of them faster. So if you can't see things, someone else should be able to and can alert you before it gets out of control. Is that not what family is for?

I think my life could have gone a lot easier if someone had smacked me in the back of the head a looooooong time ago about my Christian walk. I really don't know if I was falsely converted back in '79- and what I mean is accepting Christ without understanding what that implied as well as not understanding the concept of repentance- and if I was truly converted later, or if it has been 30 years of backsliding. Either way, I have not honored God with my behaviour and have probably led people away from God with my behaviour too.

But God is good. God has put my feet on a path that is straight and narrow. I find myself slipping back on some things (mostly at work- all those heathens! ), but just as often God reminds me that I have been re-created- a new being and that I do not have to be a slave of the old me. Keep walking forward and following God and it is amazing how far you can go and how fast.

I have been very, very lazy in my Christianity and very complacent, having no one to challenge me (no one at church- no one at work- best friend is in same situation). If God had not given me that job that required me to drive for 3 hours a day and I had not talked myself into spending the money on a satellite radio, I would not have had all those preachers preaching repentance to me on the drive to and from work, and I would probably still be wallowing in my sins and not know what to do about it. Still trying to figure out why my Christian walk does not seem too successful...

So God is good, and knows what I need before I need it. I thought that job was all about getting experience in my new chosen career, which I also believe God led me to because it has weekends off and I have not been able to get to church much in the past 5 years. Well! What do I know?? It appears that God has other plans for me!! God is truly amazing!! God deserves Glory for setting up a plan like that!

MC- I pray that God is letting you see clearly that He has a plan for you, regardless of your circumstances. This, too, shall pass.

Lion of Judah- can't wait!!

 

[Lion_of_Judah]

Where are the people you fellowship with? Are they helping this situation or adding to your pain?

I think most churches have these small pockets of people who are close to each other, but not so much to the rest of the congregation. It is hard to have fellowship with people that don't know you.

Still trying to figure out why my Christian walk does not seem too successful...

So God is good, and knows what I need before I need it.

I really hear what you're saying here. And unfortunetly I have to agree too. "Clicks" at church too.

Somebody once said, "If you want to have a friend, be a friend."
This of course means we have to become vulnerable.. but of course, there's the process along the way
in actually meeting someone with whom you'd like to be friends with.

I myself have maybe 2 or 3 friends at the church where I attend. I've been there about 6 years now and it's fine. Most others are really acquaintances by any definition of the word. A couple of the guys I can always count on for prayer on my behalf.

My friends I would 'hang' out with are from my previous church. We've known each other about 15 years and share similiar interests. One I share interest in 4wheelin with and the other we both served in the military as well as we were both single fathers doin our best to raise our sons.

The real connecting aspect with all these guys who I respect and feel comfortable with, is we all share a common interest in mens' groups and mens' issues. My two pals from my previous church.. where we first met was in a mens group which met ever Sunday morning, at church, before the service.

That mens group changed my life... probably saved it, as well as my kids too.

There were some guys who came to that mens group (at the church and lead by a pastor), but then went home afterward. They came for the mens group but not the service. Powerful!

And yeah... they heard about Jesus. They just weren't your traditional church goers.

Anyways.. What I'm kinda getting at is what you may be after in fellowship, may be closer than you think.
I for one would ask around, or surf around, and see what might be out there for a group you might want to find an interest in.

I myself, am not interested in a "bible" study group. I want to connect with like-minded men, and others
who are looking for support in their Christian walk. Iron sharpening Iron is what I'm after.

"He knows what you need before you need it", you said. My question back to you would be, " what do you need, ..that God allows you to go find?" Because He said if you'll seek (ie.. for a group your interested in), you'll find it. If you'll "ask" around, you might be given a name of contact ; )


A final note on the group I've attended for the last 3-4 years..
I've invited several friends & acquaintances at my church to this group. None have ever come. But I have several friends from my old church who do come, as well as new guys every month. The group averages 10-20 every week. We meet on monday nights in a private room at a local restaurant. It's titled 'Mens Night Out', and there are 4 of us who share leading in the weeks of the month.

Lion of Judah- can't wait!!

lol

Still trying to figure out why my Christian walk does not seem too successful..

BTW.. This you mentioned. Another question for you..

Do you have a daily devotional you read separate from your bible?

Look forward to your reply ...can't wait :b


LoJ