Meaning of Life (yes. i'm serious)

[B-A-C]

My point was.. we are no longer in the garden. The rules of the garden no longer apply.

 

[Kirby D. P.]

My point was.. we are no longer in the garden. The rules of the garden no longer apply.

I beg to differ.

Where does it say that?

Are we no longer to hold dominion over fish and birds and cattle? Not supposed to mark the Sabbath? Name newly discovered creatures? Are man and woman no longer able, or expected, to be married?

Is not the ground whence Man was made THE SAME material to which he still returns? The same ground Man came from, which man was instructed to till?

Are we not still obliged to multiply and REPLENISH the earth? If we ARE still required to cultivate the earth, after the Fall, are we not ALSO still expect to abide the second part of the SAME verse and protect it? Is there any injunction in Genesis, pre-Fall, whereupon, after the fall, God says, “You know that [X, Y or Z] requirement? You no longer have to worry about that.”?

I think this might be a pretty big deal, made bigger that I can’t think of anytime, in print, on video, on audio, or from the pulpit anybody ever trying to make it a big deal.

This only recently occurred to me. I haven’t done a deep dive on the interwebs to see who else out there has seized on this. It CANT be just me and they CANT all be atheist.

I’ll be back with whatever I find. But as I go, I confess I am honestly surprised at how excited this has made me.

Who knows? I may come to the opinion the being responsible for this doctrine might be worthy of veneration.

 

[B-A-C]

I beg to differ.

Where does it say that?

As previously posted...

Here are some of the things that changed.

Gen 3:14; The LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this, Cursed are you more than all cattle, And more than every beast of the field; On your belly you will go, And dust you will eat All the days of your life;

It may be possible snakes didn't "slither", but possibly had legs like a lizard. (when in the garden, before the fall)

Gen 3:16; To the woman He said, "I will greatly multiply Your pain in childbirth, In pain you will bring forth children; Yet your desire will be for your husband, And he will rule over you."

It seems childbirth wasn't painful before the fall.

Gen 3:17; Then to Adam He said, "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'; Cursed is the ground because of you; In toil you will eat of it All the days of your life.
Gen 3:18; "Both thorns and thistles it shall grow for you; And you will eat the plants of the field;

It seems the ground wasn't "cursed" before the fall, in the garden. Now there are thorns, thistles and weeds...

Of course without sin, there was no death.... but after the fall.

Gen 3:19; By the sweat of your face You will eat bread, Till you return to the ground, Because from it you were taken; For you are dust, And to dust you shall return.

Man was "driven out of the garden". We are no longer in the garden.

Gen 3:23; therefore the LORD God sent him out from the garden of Eden, to cultivate the ground from which he was taken.
Gen 3:24; So He drove the man out; and at the east of the garden of Eden He stationed the cherubim and the flaming sword which turned every direction to guard the way to the tree of life.

Now this affected everything, all through the Bible... even into the new testament.

Rom 5:12; Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned—

Guess who the "one man" is in the verse above.

 

[Kirby D. P.]

As previously posted...

Here are some of the things that changed.

Gen 3:14; The LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this, Cursed are you more than all cattle, And more than every beast of the field; On your belly you will go, And dust you will eat All the days of your life;

It may be possible snakes didn't "slither", but possibly had legs like a lizard. (when in the garden, before the fall)

Gen 3:16; To the woman He said, "I will greatly multiply Your pain in childbirth, In pain you will bring forth children; Yet your desire will be for your husband, And he will rule over you."

It seems childbirth wasn't painful before the fall.

Gen 3:17; Then to Adam He said, "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'; Cursed is the ground because of you; In toil you will eat of it All the days of your life.
Gen 3:18; "Both thorns and thistles it shall grow for you; And you will eat the plants of the field;

It seems the ground wasn't "cursed" before the fall, in the garden. Now there are thorns, thistles and weeds...

Of course without sin, there was no death.... but after the fall.

Gen 3:19; By the sweat of your face You will eat bread, Till you return to the ground, Because from it you were taken; For you are dust, And to dust you shall return.

Man was "driven out of the garden". We are no longer in the garden.

Gen 3:23; therefore the LORD God sent him out from the garden of Eden, to cultivate the ground from which he was taken.
Gen 3:24; So He drove the man out; and at the east of the garden of Eden He stationed the cherubim and the flaming sword which turned every direction to guard the way to the tree of life.

Now this affected everything, all through the Bible... even into the new testament.

Rom 5:12; Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned—

Guess who the "one man" is in the verse above.

First, just (to me) an amusing note on Satanic lore. I accept science’s consensus on serpentine natural history. (But, then, I just would, wouldn’t I?) Snakes are thought to have evolved from lizards. They are still classified as “tetrapods,” their forbears had legs and occasionally today there are instances of snakes with vestigial, atavistic limbs. And there is no denying they are belly crawlers today. BUT, while this is one authentic example of the biblical narrative agreeing broadly with natural science, it undermines any interpretation of the Garden serpent as Satan. Forget that he is never named as such in Genesis, when Satan does take the biblical stage in Job, his very first words are, “From going to and fro in the world, and WALKING up and down in it.” (Job 2:2, KJV) Hebrew of the period had distinct words for “going” and “traveling” but 2:2 uses the word for bipedal locomotion, human walking on foot. The inconsistency actually doesn’t bother me, but I am always amused when readers deliberately overlook this plain gaffe.

But, back to G2:15 — you are absolutely right in all your citations. But don’t these simply add weight to my point? Yes. There are few terminators in all of human culture as bright as the one separating the states of the world before and after the Fall. But can we find ANY scriptural basis to think Man’s duty to protect creation from degradation is one iota less primary and urgent than when he was first set in the garden?

 

[Curtis]

If you want to know why everything exists, and its purpose, which also includes man, that answer is found in the Gospel of John.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

The word "Word" is the Greek word, "Logos" It is where we get our English word for "logic" There is a "logic" that is of this world, and there is a type of logic that comes down from above. These two are no where near the same thing.
Before any human or any spiritual being does anything, no matter what it is, there must first be a "purpose", and or a "reason". In the beginning that purpose was brought forth. In the beginning was the Word. The word logos is also translated purpose, and or reason. We all know who the Word of God is. Jesus Christ is the Word that became flesh. Now we can find out why everything exists whether it be visible or invisible.

Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Jesus Christ is the reason, and purpose why everything exists. All things were made by him, and FOR him!! But what about man? If all things were made for Christ, then all things were made for Christ and his Church since he is our head, and we are his body! This is no other reason why everything exists today.

1Co 3:21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours;
1Co 3:22 Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours;
1Co 3:23 And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.

 

[Kirby D. P.]

If you want to know why everything exists, and its purpose, which also includes man, that answer is found in the Gospel of John.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

The word "Word" is the Greek word, "Logos" It is where we get our English word for "logic" There is a "logic" that is of this world, and there is a type of logic that comes down from above. These two are no where near the same thing.
Before any human or any spiritual being does anything, no matter what it is, there must first be a "purpose", and or a "reason". In the beginning that purpose was brought forth. In the beginning was the Word. The word logos is also translated purpose, and or reason. We all know who the Word of God is. Jesus Christ is the Word that became flesh. Now we can find out why everything exists whether it be visible or invisible.

Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Jesus Christ is the reason, and purpose why everything exists. All things were made by him, and FOR him!! But what about man? If all things were made for Christ, then all things were made for Christ and his Church since he is our head, and we are his body! This is no other reason why everything exists today.

1Co 3:21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours;
1Co 3:22 Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours;
1Co 3:23 And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.

Hi, Curtis! And thank you for the thorough and cogent thoughts. Yes, I agree with your interpretation of the “meaning” or “purpose” of creation according to the Christian creed. I would add, however, that this understanding extends generically to all of creation, from neutron stars to bacteria. This is not to deny the Christian dogma that these are all subordinate to the human condition, which clearly occupies a special primacy in relationship to the creator.

But, I must confess a bit of good natured cheating. I am guilty of a tiny “bait and switch.” Please don’t be angry. When I ask of “meaning” or “purpose,” I am not speaking of higher, holy virtue. I am speaking of the much more practical role humans play as a dynamic element in the workings of the creation. Scripture, dogma and common sense... even science... seek and find a role or function and effect for every thing that exists.

Here I am interested in the role humans play as a part of creation. Again, again, and again people have declared to me that God created creations to function in concert with each other.

I am convinced that human activity is actively ruining those parts of the environment we require for our own survival and well being. Indeed, I think this represents THE most urgent threat confronting our species today, just as global nuclear war endangered Earthly life when I was growing up.

Given all that, I would call your attention to Gen 2:15. Please (I HATE to assign anyone homework) take a quick look at the verse and let me know what, if any, thoughts it provokes in you.

Thanks in advance if you do, and no hard feeling if for any reason you’d rather not.

 

[Curtis]

Hi, Curtis! And thank you for the thorough and cogent thoughts. Yes, I agree with your interpretation of the “meaning” or “purpose” of creation according to the Christian creed. I would add, however, that this understanding extends generically to all of creation, from neutron stars to bacteria. This is not to deny the Christian dogma that these are all subordinate to the human condition, which clearly occupies a special primacy in relationship to the creator.

But, I must confess a bit of good natured cheating. I am guilty of a tiny “bait and switch.” Please don’t be angry. When I ask of “meaning” or “purpose,” I am not speaking of higher, holy virtue. I am speaking of the much more practical role humans play as a dynamic element in the workings of the creation. Scripture, dogma and common sense... even science... seek and find a role or function and effect for every thing that exists.

Here I am interested in the role humans play as a part of creation. Again, again, and again people have declared to me that God created creations to function in concert with each other.

I am convinced that human activity is actively ruining those parts of the environment we require for our own survival and well being. Indeed, I think this represents THE most urgent threat confronting our species today, just as global nuclear war endangered Earthly life when I was growing up.

Given all that, I would call your attention to Gen 2:15. Please (I HATE to assign anyone homework) take a quick look at the verse and let me know what, if any, thoughts it provokes in you.

Thanks in advance if you do, and no hard feeling if for any reason you’d rather not.

When God formed man on this earth, he gave him a purpose. Sometimes I think most people think Adam just lounged around in the Garden of Eden all day eating fruit. Adam was given a "job", and that job was to tend, and protect the garden in which he lived. The word "keep" in Geneses 2:15 means to "guard". Adam failed in his job, and allowed the serpent into the garden which brought destruction, not only to his family, but also brought a curse to the earth. It was never intended that Adam to have authority over everything upon this earth alone. God gave Adam authority, and God had the power to back up that authority. Authority is useless if there is no power to back it up. We know because of man's sin death came upon earth. Later on it eventually brought a flood that destroyed everything except for eight people. Today, because of man's continue sin it will once again bring destruction upon this earth, but this time it will not be destroyed by water, but by fire.

2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.