Mortal sins?

[RJ]

The unpardonable sin is not actually a sin at all though. As unbelievers, we all rejected God in some way. Some more so than others. I personally know people who fir the "blaspheming the Holy Spirit" description perfectly but are now living examples of what Christ can do in your life. If one truly repents, there is no sin that can keep that person bound. The unpardonable sin is not a sin but rather, a state of hopelessness where one has seen all he can see and heard all he can hear yet still rejects and even attributes the power of the Spirit to Satan. For this person, it is hopeless that they will ever see the Light for what it is.

That being said, for the unbeliever all sins are mortal. For the believer, all sins have been defeated by the propitiation of Christ which makes us clean.

I am starting to believe that you are a natural born disagreeable person, It must be something to do with building yourself up by cutting down what others say.
So, the "unpardonable sin" is not a sin, that defies explanation!

You must think that you are the only one who can think or reason. Most born again Christians knows that the blaspheme of the Holy Spirit is the same as "unbelief". And, that an unbeliever will die spiritually because of their sin. So, your the Teacher and I am the Student: Let me get this straight.... The unpardonable sin is not a sin, it is just "called" a sin, I wonder if anyone else has thought of that before?!

Matthew 12:31 (New King James Version)

The Unpardonable Sin

31(A) Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but(B) the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.
Hmmm! This Bible says that the blasphemy of the Spirit is a sin and is the unpardonable sin, but of course it really isn't a sin according to the Bible of Rojoloco
In the Old Covenant, if you blasphemed God, it was punishable by death!!! Hmmm!, that certainly sounds like an unpardonable sin to me, what does the Bible of Rojoloco say?


Matthew 12:31 (English Standard Version)

31 “Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men.
This Bible must disagrees with the Rojoloco Bible too!

Rojoloco translate means "Crazy Red" ....I'm a believer!!!!

Man you are contradictive, confusing and some of your ideas can lead to a person being put into bondage...now if that is not a sin, I guess I am lost!

 

[rojoloco]

I am starting to believe that you are a natural born disagreeable person, It must be something to do with building yourself up by cutting down what others say.

Actually, I agree with people quite often. It just doesn't happen on this forum very often. As much as I like this forum, I also see a lot of confusion regarding the Doctrines of Grace.

So, the "unpardonable sin" is not a sin, that defies explanation!

Not when you understand what sin is. Sin is a separation from God. That's it! It takes form in our actions. It takes form in our mind set. More so, it takes form in the chasm between us and God. To be truly unpardonable means that chasm will never be closed. Is the blood of Christ really insufficient to forgive a particular action? Are you really prepared to limit its power that way?

You must think that you are the only one who can think or reason.

Not at all. However, I do expect those who think and reason to use the Bible in full context.

Most born again Christians knows that the blaspheme of the Holy Spirit is the same as "unbelief".

Actually, blaspheming the Holy Spirit is not synonymous with unbelief. It comes from unbelief. Although, there is a state of constant rejection, blasphemy does not necessarily follow. To state that blasphemy is synonymous with unbelief, in your current belief system, you are compelled to say that nobody would ever believe or be forgiven considering we were all unbelievers at one point.

And, that an unbeliever will die spiritually because of their sin. So, your the Teacher and I am the Student: Let me get this straight.... The unpardonable sin is not a sin, it is just "called" a sin, I wonder if anyone else has thought of that before?!

It is very much so a sin. It just is not a particular action. Once again, this can be proven by looking at fellow Christians who, at one time in their lives, blasphemed the Holy Spirit willingly. Do you doubt their salvation because of an act they committed while they did not yet believe? With your belief, you are again compelled to say yes.

Matthew 12:31 (New King James Version)

The Unpardonable Sin

31(A) Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but(B) the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.
Hmmm! This Bible says that the blasphemy of the Spirit is a sin and is the unpardonable sin, but of course it really isn't a sin according to the Bible of Rojoloco

I refer you to my above point.

In the Old Covenant, if you blasphemed God, it was punishable by death!!! Hmmm!, that certainly sounds like an unpardonable sin to me, what does the Bible of Rojoloco say?

In the Old Covenant, God showed his truth through prophets. Tell me you don't believe those still exist? Your point is moot.

Matthew 12:31 (English Standard Version)

31 “Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men.
This Bible must disagrees with the Rojoloco Bible too!

Here are a few for you:

"Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins."

In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace

I suppose one could always say this is being said in the general sense still leaving room for that one unpardonable action of unrighteousness. Here's another one:

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

That one pretty much sums it up. There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING that is beyond forgiveness. ALL unrighteousness will be forgiven to the one who confesses his sins unto God. This action is because of the blood of Christ that was powerful enough to overcome the sins of the world. No sin is too strong to escape it if only we are washed in it.

This brings us to my point. It is only if we are washed in the blood. I actually do not believe the unpardonable sin is possible in this day and age. I believe it was possible during the time of Jesus and will again be possible in "the age to come" when Jesus returns. I believe it is only possible to commit when one has full awareness of Jesus and who he is yet still rejects him and even attributes his work to Satan. For this person, it is not the particular blaspheming that is unforgivable for, if he decided 2 days later to confess Christ as his Savior, his unrighteousness would be forgiven. Rather, it is the very fact that he will not receive Christ as his Savior because he has already been given everything yet still condemns Christ.

I do want to amend my point slightly. If one does die in a state of unbelief, he technically would die in a state of unforgivable sin. However, it would not be a particular sin but every single sin he had ever committed.

Man you are contradictive, confusing and some of your ideas can lead to a person being put into bondage...now if that is not a sin, I guess I am lost!

You are teaching that one can commit a particular sin that can never be forgiven while I am saying the blood is powerful enough to forgive ALL sins if one confesses them to God. Who is teaching bondage here?

 

[RJ]

Actually, I agree with people quite often. It just doesn't happen on this forum very often. As much as I like this forum, I also see a lot of confusion regarding the Doctrines of Grace.



Not when you understand what sin is. Sin is a separation from God. That's it! It takes form in our actions. It takes form in our mind set. More so, it takes form in the chasm between us and God. To be truly unpardonable means that chasm will never be closed. Is the blood of Christ really insufficient to forgive a particular action? Are you really prepared to limit its power that way?



Not at all. However, I do expect those who think and reason to use the Bible in full context.



Actually, blaspheming the Holy Spirit is not synonymous with unbelief. It comes from unbelief. Although, there is a state of constant rejection, blasphemy does not necessarily follow. To state that blasphemy is synonymous with unbelief, in your current belief system, you are compelled to say that nobody would ever believe or be forgiven considering we were all unbelievers at one point.



It is very much so a sin. It just is not a particular action. Once again, this can be proven by looking at fellow Christians who, at one time in their lives, blasphemed the Holy Spirit willingly. Do you doubt their salvation because of an act they committed while they did not yet believe? With your belief, you are again compelled to say yes.



I refer you to my above point.



In the Old Covenant, God showed his truth through prophets. Tell me you don't believe those still exist? Your point is moot.




Here are a few for you:




I suppose one could always say this is being said in the general sense still leaving room for that one unpardonable action of unrighteousness. Here's another one:



That one pretty much sums it up. There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING that is beyond forgiveness. ALL unrighteousness will be forgiven to the one who confesses his sins unto God. This action is because of the blood of Christ that was powerful enough to overcome the sins of the world. No sin is too strong to escape it if only we are washed in it.

This brings us to my point. It is only if we are washed in the blood. I actually do not believe the unpardonable sin is possible in this day and age. I believe it was possible during the time of Jesus and will again be possible in "the age to come" when Jesus returns. I believe it is only possible to commit when one has full awareness of Jesus and who he is yet still rejects him and even attributes his work to Satan. For this person, it is not the particular blaspheming that is unforgivable for, if he decided 2 days later to confess Christ as his Savior, his unrighteousness would be forgiven. Rather, it is the very fact that he will not receive Christ as his Savior because he has already been given everything yet still condemns Christ.

I do want to amend my point slightly. If one does die in a state of unbelief, he technically would die in a state of unforgivable sin. However, it would not be a particular sin but every single sin he had ever committed.



You are teaching that one can commit a particular sin that can never be forgiven while I am saying the blood is powerful enough to forgive ALL sins if one confesses them to God. Who is teaching bondage here?


I am going to answer this one statement and that is it:

You are teaching that one can commit a particular sin that can never be forgiven while I am saying the blood is powerful enough to forgive ALL sins if one confesses them to God. Who is teaching bondage here?[/QUOTE]

YES,YES, YES: THE UNPARDONABLE SIN IS UNBELIEF. I suppose now you will tell us that unbelief is not a sin, IT SURE THE HECK IS UNPARDONABLE IF YOU DIE IN IT!! It can not be a Mortal Sin unless you die in it, oh WISE ONE!!!!! UNPARDONABLE SIN IS DYING IN UNBELIEF, IT IS A PLAY ON WORDS, ITS' A CONUNDRUM. Well all know that anyone can be saved, ESPECIALLY THE UNBELIEVER.

AND TO SAY I TEACH THE OPPOSITE, WHAT ARROGANCE AND GALL YOU HAVE!!!!!

YES UNBELIEF CAN BE FORGIVEN!!!!!!!!! WHILE YOU ARE STILL ALIVE.........WHAT AM I MISSING HERE????


Crazy Red, "Your A Legend In Your Own Mind" BUT YOUR ARROGANCE AND SELF LOVE IS WAY OUT THERE!

 

[rojoloco]

You are teaching that one can commit a particular sin that can never be forgiven while I am saying the blood is powerful enough to forgive ALL sins if one confesses them to God. Who is teaching bondage here?

YES,YES, YES: THE UNPARDONABLE SIN IS UNBELIEF. I suppose now you will tell us that unbelief is not a sin, IT SURE THE HECK IS UNPARDONABLE IF YOU DIE IN IT!! It can not be a Mortal Sin unless you die in it, oh WISE ONE!!!!! UNPARDONABLE SIN IS DYING IN UNBELIEF, IT IS A PLAY ON WORDS, ITS' A CONUNDRUM. Well all know that anyone can be saved, ESPECIALLY THE UNBELIEVER.

AND TO SAY I TEACH THE OPPOSITE, WHAT ARROGANCE AND GALL YOU HAVE!!!!!

YES UNBELIEF CAN BE FORGIVEN!!!!!!!!! WHILE YOU ARE STILL ALIVE.........WHAT AM I MISSING HERE????

You have a habit of doing this. Sometimes you back track and add things to what you said while other times you simply change your answer. There is no consistency except knowing there will be one of the two at almost every turn.

You said blaspheming the Spirit was synonymous with unbelief. First off, the text does not allow this. Jesus clearly said what he said after they had attributed his works to Satan. This means they had committed the unforgivable sin while they were still alive. It had already been done. However, Jesus knew their hearts and knew it would only be unforgivable, not because of their blaspheming but, because of the hopelessness of them ever seeing Him for who He was. They were so far lost that they would never see the Light. It was unforgivable because they would never ask for forgiveness. The caveat to that is what I said in my last post. If one died, unbelief is most definitely unforgivable. However, it does not stand alone. At that point, EVERY sin is unforgivable because they do not have an Advocate with the Father. Regardless, blaspheming is clearly not the same as mere death in unbelief.

Crazy Red, "Your A Legend In Your Own Mind" BUT YOUR ARROGANCE AND SELF LOVE IS WAY OUT THERE!

You'd be surprised actually. However, I am not afraid to point out false teaching when I see it. That is a part of my spiritual gift of discernment. I will admit I lack compassion at times but arrogance/self-love is never my motive or driving force.

 

[RJ]

QUOTE=rojoloco;169585]You have a habit of doing this. Sometimes you back track and add things to what you said while other times you simply change your answer. There is no consistency except knowing there will be one of the two at almost every turn.LOL.LOL.LOL.....Ya know " Big Red" If that is true, then we are a lot more like each other than we think, what you just said is the preverbal "Pot Calling The Kettle Black"!

You said blaspheming the Spirit was synonymous with unbelief.Wikipedia: Synonyms are different words with almost identical or similar meanings. What I succinctly said was not "almost", I said exactly!! First off, the text does not allow this.According to who? Please, I think you are missing out on something here, you need to publish YOUR commentaries ! Jesus clearly said what he said after they had attributed his works to Satan. This means they had committed the unforgivable sin while they were still alive.Yes, most people do!! It had already been done. However, Jesus knew their hearts and knew it would only be unforgivable, not because of their blaspheming but, because of the hopelessness of them ever seeing Him for who He was. They were so far lost that they would never see the Light. It was unforgivable because they would never ask for forgiveness.What a good description of anyone and everyone who remains dead to their sin! The caveat to that is what I said in my last post. If one died, unbelief is most definitely unforgivable.Go figure, where in the world did you come up with that statement? This is getting me nervous, I think we are the "mirror image" of each other. I know I have always maintained that exact same thing about unbelief. However, it does not stand alone. At that point, EVERY sin is unforgivable because they do not have an Advocate with the Father.Yep, that's pretty much why it's called death. Regardless, blaspheming is clearly not the same as mere death in unbelief.No it's it not but death is certainly right there brooding over you, if you don't reconcile and change your ways!

You'd be surprised actually. However, I am not afraid to point out false teaching when I see it. That is a part of my spiritual gift of discernment.I knew the pride thing had to come out sooner or later!There is definitely no lack of self-worth when it comes to your gift! I will admit I lack compassion at times( there we go again, that "mirror image" of each other! but arrogance/self-love is never my motive or driving force.O.K., I'll humbly give you a pass on that, but I'm still not sure about the heaviness with the pride thing![/QUOTE]

 

[rojoloco]

LOL.LOL.LOL.....Ya know " Big Red" If that is true, then we are a lot more like each other than we think, what you just said is the preverbal "Pot Calling The Kettle Black"!

Actually, I am very consistent in what I teach. I am also very careful about what I type on the internet because I know that anybody can read it and, if I mistype something, I am not there in real time to correct myself as I would be in person.

Wikipedia: Synonyms are different words with almost identical or similar meanings. What I succinctly said was not "almost", I said exactly!!

Seriously? Wikipedia? lol. Dictionary.com: a word having the same or nearly the same meaning as another in the language.

According to who? Please, I think you are missing out on something here, you need to publish YOUR commentaries !

Actually, I AM in the process of writing a book that contains topics such as this. Regardless, logic, reasoning, and basic reading comprehension show how the text does not allow for your interpretation.

No it's it not but death is certainly right there brooding over you, if you don't reconcile and change your ways!

Okay, this is progress. You were adamant that blaspheming the Spirit was synonymous[/b] with dying in sin. Now you appear to be shifting a little. While dying in sin is definitely unforgivable, it is not necessarily blaspheming the Spirit. What makes it unforgivable is the final state; not a present act. All present transgressions can be forgiven.

I knew the pride thing had to come out sooner or later!There is definitely no lack of self-worth when it comes to your gift!

It isn't self-worth. Call it faith in action. A guard dog doesn't whimper as a thief breaks into a house. While it may not totally fit here as I do not believe you are teaching heresies on this subject (I think you are just a little confused on a relatively small matter), I still love this quote by John Calvin.

I neither hate you nor despise you; nor do I wish to persecute you; but I would be as hard as iron when I behold you insulting sound doctrine with so great audacity.

O.K., I'll humbly give you a pass on that, but I'm still not sure about the heaviness with the pride thing!

[/QUOTE]

Arrogance is most definitely something that is in our nature. Even Scripture says knowledge makes arrogant when it is practiced without love. As I said before, arrogance is never my driving force or motivation but I will admit it can come off that way at times due to my unfortunate lack of compassion. Lack of compassion is not the same as a lack of love (I have plenty of that) but, without compassion, the tough love (and sometimes solid blows depending on the severity of who/what I am rebuking) can appear to be arrogance.

 

[RJ]

Actually, I am very consistent in what I teach. I am also very careful about what I type on the internet because I know that anybody can read it and, if I mistype something, I am not there in real time to correct myself as I would be in person.



Seriously? Wikipedia? lol. Dictionary.com: a word having the same or nearly the same meaning as another in the language.
Yes sir. You just quote any source you want to or just kindly use your own please.




Actually, I AM in the process of writing a book that contains topics such as this. Regardless, logic, reasoning, and basic reading comprehension show how the text does not allow for your interpretation.
Yes, I do think that reading comprehension does apply here but, with all due respect, it's a matter of opinion who lacks that quality.



Okay, this is progress. You were adamant that blaspheming the Spirit was synonymous[/b] with dying in sin. Now you appear to be shifting a little. While dying in sin is definitely unforgivable, it is not necessarily blaspheming the Spirit. What makes it unforgivable is the final state; not a present act. All present transgressions can be forgiven. Now you see, would you please try and do some "basic" comprehension here! I beg you , dear Sir, please , for the benefit of all and who are definitely reading this: Please call up and copy a thread of mine that states just what you said above. Please! I am in a lot of "hot water" over my angst about you misquoting me!

I have always understood and maintained that "Blaspheme The Holy Spirit" is the act of rejecting the saving grace of Jesus Christ. And, most assuredly, is forgivable in this life, but if you die in that state, it is the "Unpardonable sin" and you will be condemned! I have even quoted verses in the Old Testament, showing it was punishable by death in this physical life, and verses in the New Testament that show it is forgivable in this life and only punishable upon your physical death!

So I am asking, please show us where I have stated to the contrary!




It isn't self-worth. Call it faith in action. A guard dog doesn't whimper as a thief breaks into a house. While it may not totally fit here as I do not believe you are teaching heresies on this subject (I think you are just a little confused on a relatively small matter), I still love this quote by John Calvin.

Arrogance is most definitely something that is in our nature. Even Scripture says knowledge makes arrogant when it is practiced without love. As I said before, arrogance is never my driving force or motivation but I will admit it can come off that way at times due to my unfortunate lack of compassion. Lack of compassion is not the same as a lack of love (I have plenty of that) but, without compassion, the tough love (and sometimes solid blows depending on the severity of who/what I am rebuking) can appear to be arrogance.[/QUOTE]
And, here is another, "I'm Begging", Please rebuke someone else, for I am already saved by Jesus Christ!

 

[shipwrecksoul]

1Ti 1:20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

Blaspheme who?
That they may learn what? Children of wrath cannot learn they love darkness remember.

Hearing the promise, Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, and not responding to the Holy Spirit.
HMMmmm to me that sounds like rejection of someones eternal salvation hope.
Thus blaspheme of the Holy Spirit.
You would not want to say no to him! Because you knew it was out of love, conviction, and you choose not the love of God, able to save ones soul.