Must A Christain Be Perfect To Enter Into Heaven?

[kyval82]

Hello.

I am a christain, I have been about two years now, so I am still quite a young christain. I am of pentecostal faith, and where I go to church, Our preacher has many sermons on christains needing to be perfect to go to heaven.. Usually it is said like, a christain cannot have a spot or blemish to enter into heaven, we must remain without sin, if we do sin, it must be forgiven.

I understand striving to be perfect, but do we really have to be perfect, sinnless and without blemish to go to heaven?

What does the bible say??/

Thank you all and God Bless

 

[Faith4Bride]

Luk 8:14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of [this] life, and bring no fruit to perfection.


Luk 8:15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep [it], and bring forth fruit with patience.

 

[Faith4Bride]

Jesus was made perfect through sufferings

Hbr 2:10 For it became him, for whom [are] all things, and by whom [are] all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

We are also because it takes patience to be fruitful and patience is only needed in tempations and sufferings

Rom 5:3 And not only [so], but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

Hbr 10:36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

Jam 1:4 But let patience have [her] perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

Through our sufferings, we will grow in patience. When patience have her perfect work, we will be perfect.

Perfect through sufferings just like Christ Jesus.


These sufferings cause us to be glorified in him, without them we will not be.

 

[Kit Carson]

Hello.

I am a christain, I have been about two years now, so I am still quite a young christain. I am of pentecostal faith, and where I go to church, Our preacher has many sermons on christains needing to be perfect to go to heaven.. Usually it is said like, a christain cannot have a spot or blemish to enter into heaven, we must remain without sin, if we do sin, it must be forgiven.

I understand striving to be perfect, but do we really have to be perfect, sinnless and without blemish to go to heaven?

What does the bible say??/

Thank you all and God Bless

Ask that preacher if he is without sin. I know exactly your feelings, as I was baptized in a Pentecostal Church, I was supposed to come up and say some enlightened saying in tongues. I mumbled something so they would not push me down and drown me again . My wife was scared to death.

Some of them are simply fanatics, no way you can do what they say to do, as they judge by human values. The animal, the person the corn the whatever must be perfect, without blemish or bent limb, and if so not to be touched by the priests, carried forward and does cause a lot of fear and heartache for many.

God does not wish you to live in fear, or to be fearful, he wishes you to enjoy life, to be you, to laugh and just follow his word. Those type preachers will cause you to live in fear. Been there seen it and done that one.

Quite simply when you ask Jesus for salvation it is granted by Grace. As long as you do try to live a good life and to be guided by Gods Word you are fine.

None of us are sinless , never will be, but that is ok as Jesus gave his life for us to make us sinless before God. That does not mean to go and do things that are wrong, but to just do your best. It is your heart that God is aware of, and he knows, yes he knows your true feelings and does not demand a lot. At least it does not seem to be much as one does desire to simply do the right thing. God puts that into you and the more you listen to him the more it comes naturally. And that is the whole secret, read Gods word and listen to him not any man.

Kit

 

[sunshineaaks]

Hello.

I am a christain, I have been about two years now, so I am still quite a young christain. I am of pentecostal faith, and where I go to church, Our preacher has many sermons on christains needing to be perfect to go to heaven.. Usually it is said like, a christain cannot have a spot or blemish to enter into heaven, we must remain without sin, if we do sin, it must be forgiven.

I understand striving to be perfect, but do we really have to be perfect, sinnless and without blemish to go to heaven?

What does the bible say??/

Thank you all and God Bless

Weren't the Scribes and Pharisees perfect (in their own eyes I might add) and Jesus said to do as they say not as they do? (Matthew 23:1-3) And then He gave examples of these men. They preached a good sermon but didn't live by their own words.

There was only one man perfect enough to enter heaven on His own merit which is why He died for us so that we can enter through Him.

I had to smile at the poster who says “Ask that preacher if he is without sin.” Most times they will not give you a direct answer to that question (because they know they are not perfect) or will accuse you of stirring the pot by that question (because they know you know they are far from perfect) but maybe only on a few occasions will you get them to say that they are without sin (take note of the glassy eyes). No matter what which answer they give, I would run as fast as you can from that church (you might soil them being imperfect an all) and find a Bible believing one.

No one will be free of sin on this earth (Hebrews 7:11-25) otherwise there would have been no need for Christ's death and resurrection.

As a follower of Christ we do strive toward perfection (2 Corinthians 13:11) in turning from sin as it is pointed out to us or God reveals it to us (2 Corinthians 7:1; 1 Peter 1:13-19; Philippians 3:8-13; 2 Chronicles 7:14; Jeremiah 36:3; Acts 26:18).

When we stumble (as we all will even the ‘perfect’ ones more so than the repentant ones) He has made a way of escape through Christ. (1 Corinthians 10:12-13; 2 Peter 2:9)

The Bible is full of over confidence referred to in verse 12 (Lk 22:33, 34, 54-62; Rev 3:1-3, 17; Is 37:36-38 to name a few) Most of your ‘perfect’ community do not want to look into God’s wrath and will angrily hold to their own 'perfection' rather than God’s perfection.

 

[The Robster]

Op you're blameless and washed clean like me. Get out of these churches that are preaching Law and that are preaching you have to justify your righteousness or prove your righteousness each day. I'll tell you American c hurches are really falling behind with the other churches on this planet. We are under grace and we have so many churches in America preaching a mixture of Law and Grace. Putting proplr under Law is how you knock people down from grace and make Christ of no effect in your life. Hello...is this microphone on...we are living under Grace people, not Law!

 

[kyval82]

Thank you all for helping me to understand a bit more.
So the preaching is based on the law of the Old testiment? I know that jesus was the only perfect and sinnless man, and i know that through Him my sins are forgiven. I know that we are perfect through Jesus, but do we have to stay perfect? Through jesus is the only way that we are sanctified, so when we sin, we ask for forgivness again, is that staying perfect.?

 

[The Robster]

Thank you all for helping me to understand a bit more.
So the preaching is based on the law of the Old testiment? I know that jesus was the only perfect and sinnless man, and i know that through Him my sins are forgiven. I know that we are perfect through Jesus, but do we have to stay perfect? Through jesus is the only way that we are sanctified, so when we sin, we ask for forgivness again, is that staying perfect.?

Sure doesn't sound like grace preaching to me. Ask that preacher which laws you have to keep in order to become perfect. I'm sure he'll give you quite a list, thus proving my point. Churches like that bug me because they drive people away from the Lord. When we screw up, God looks at the blood of Jesus and His finished work. Its not the blood of bulls and rams and some churches treated as such preaching messages that suggest that you have to labor with your hands to prove you're righteous or justified before God. You don't have to. The Lord wants us to produce fruit, but producing fruit has nothing to do with the gift of righteousness and how God sees us. We are the bridgegroom of Christ. Anyway, I don't want to sound like I'm judging your pastor as a bad one. I just disagree with the preaching of Law and Grace when we live under grace. The law has been done away with. It was called the ministry of death. Why would preachers even want to try and put people under that again? The Law does not produce holiness.

 

[sunshineaaks]

Thank you all for helping me to understand a bit more.
So the preaching is based on the law of the Old testiment? I know that jesus was the only perfect and sinnless man, and i know that through Him my sins are forgiven. I know that we are perfect through Jesus, but do we have to stay perfect? Through jesus is the only way that we are sanctified, so when we sin, we ask for forgivness again, is that staying perfect.?

Matthew 5:14-19 makes it clear that Jesus didn’t come to destroy the law but to fulfill it. He is the only man who could keep all 10 commandments and not break one of them.

Verse 18 makes it plain that ‘until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.” (NASB – Matthew 5:18) (also Luke 16:13-17) Makes it pretty clear that we are to obey His word. (Matthew 7:11-23 is also helpful)

Jesus also said that if you break just one of the commandments you have broken them all. He never broke one. A good beginning to a study of this would be a word search “commandments” or 'obedience' in Biblegateway.com

Much to be said about obedience to God's word. It kind of takes away the excuse ‘I can do as I please and am forgiven anyway” or the ‘I’m perfect and don’t need to repent and turn from sin”.

 

[The Robster]

Through jesus is the only way that we are sanctified, so when we sin, we ask for forgivness again, is that staying perfect.?

Christians are still going to sin. Its just a fact of life. We're still going to get tempted by the enemy and sometimes we are just not going to put up a good fight to resist the enemy's temptation. WE should resist but even as Christians we don't do what we should. Don't be conscious of the Law when there is only commandment under the New Covenant and that is to love one another. That's your only commandment to follow. And I meant to ask you before are you nearly 2000 years old? Seems like a silly question right? Well when Jesus died, every single one of your sins were yet future. Every sin, past, present and future was forgiven at the Cross. Rest in that man. If you miss the mark, ask for forgiveness and rest knowing you got it and REMIND yourself that every sin was forgiven at the Cross. The blood of Jesus perpetually cleanses you. You are blameless in God's eyes no matter how bad you miss the mark so don't worry about being perfect because in God's eyes you are. You wear the robe of righteousness 24hrs a day/7 days a week. You need to reach out and make this yours! Once you do, you will walk much better in that grace. Took me some time to do it myself but once you believe this and get it into your spirit, you'll enjoy the Shalom that Jesus spoke of. God isn't recording your faults.

 

[Boanerges]

We already please God and simply put we need to be found in Christ. By faith we receive the good gifts that He gives and He has become our righteousness. If one be the greatest Apostle or the youngest babe in Christ we have but one leg to stand on and that the shed blood of Jesus Christ.
Our job then is (like Jesus in His earth walk) to be led of and empowered by the Holy Spirit trusting God each step. We are to walk a faith walk believing God to manifest His righteousness in and through us. In so doing we will see the power of God not only in our lives but also in the lives of others around us.

1Co 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Php 1:11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and

Php 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:


Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Tit 3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;


Col 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Rom 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

 

[soberxp]

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

Hebrews 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

 

[kyval82]

Thank ya'll again so much, I really needed to know more about this subject and I appreciate all your help, and scripture.. Blessings and I am happy I now undersatnd this better than I did.!

 

[The Robster]

Thank ya'll again so much, I really needed to know more about this subject and I appreciate all your help, and scripture.. Blessings and I am happy I now undersatnd this better than I did.!

Good to hear brother. Resist sin and resist temptation. But if you give in and you do sin, rest easy knowing that if you ask the Lord for forgiveness He forgives and forgets. And YOU should forget too! Jesus' blood is not the blood of bulls or goats. Everyone of your sins was forgiven before you were even born. Every one of your sins were yet future unless you're over 2000 years old.

 

[Boanerges]

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,



Hebrews 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

That my friend is where the grace of God comes in:
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
We are given a new spirit or inner man and he is indeed perfect in the image of God (Eph 4:24) but our soul (mind, will, intellect, emotions, etc) needs to be renewed daily. This is a process that shapes our thoughts ever more in the image of our creator and where our thoughts go our bodies follow. That is sanctification manifest.
However- it is only as we are walking (like Jesus Did in His earth walk- only doing what He saw the Father do and then only in the power of the Holy Spirit) in the Spirit (Gal 5:16). One single step from complete dependence on, leading of or empowerment of; one step into performing your own work in your own power is useless flesh. Since all flesh is anti-Christ in nature (Gal 5:17) it is to be continually put to the cross. So perhaps you may have met a sinless man but as of yet my friend I have not. I know many brothers who walk close to God and are really quick to repent and confess but they (like myself) can all relate to the great Apostle Paul when he cried out in the Epistle to the Roman Church:
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

 

[Faith4Bride]

Col 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
Col 1:29 Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

 

[Boanerges]

That would be easy to misunderstand without looking at the Greek- perfect meaning mature and complete

Col 1:28 WhomG3739 weG2249 preach,G2605 warningG3560 everyG3956 man,G444 andG2532 teachingG1321 everyG3956 manG444 inG1722 allG3956 wisdom;G4678 thatG2443 we may presentG3936 everyG3956 manG444 perfectG5046 inG1722 ChristG5547 Jesus:G2424
From the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
G5046
τέλειος
teleios
tel'-i-os
From G5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with G3588) completeness: - of full age, man, perfect.

From the Vines Expository Dictionary
Perfect, Perfectly

A. Adjectives.
1. teleios (G5049) signifies "having reached its end" (telos), "finished, complete perfect." It is used (I) of persons, (a) primarily of physical development, then, with ethical import, "fully grown, mature," 1Co_2:6; 1Co_14:20 ("men"; marg., "of full age"); Eph_4:13; Phi_3:15; Col_1:28; Col_4:12; in Heb_5:14, RV, "fullgrown" (marg., "perfect"), KJV, "of full age" (marg., "perfect"); (b) "complete," conveying the idea of goodness without necessary reference to maturity or what is expressed under (a) Mat_5:48; Mat_19:21; Jam_1:4 (2nd part); Jam_3:2. It is used thus of God in Mat_5:48; (II), of "things, complete, perfect," Rom_12:2; 1Co_13:10 (referring to the complete revelation of God's will and ways, whether in the completed Scriptures or in the hereafter); Jam_1:4 (of the work of patience); Jam_1:25; 1Jo_4:18.

 

[Faith4Bride]

bo- i totally agree. I believe it is very very imporant for us to learn biblical terms and their meanings and not use the idea that we have of words outside of the bible to understand truth

 

[jiggyfly]

That would be easy to misunderstand without looking at the Greek- perfect meaning mature and complete

Col 1:28 WhomG3739 weG2249 preach,G2605 warningG3560 everyG3956 man,G444 andG2532 teachingG1321 everyG3956 manG444 inG1722 allG3956 wisdom;G4678 thatG2443 we may presentG3936 everyG3956 manG444 perfectG5046 inG1722 ChristG5547 Jesus:G2424
From the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
G5046
τέλειος
teleios
tel'-i-os
From G5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with G3588) completeness: - of full age, man, perfect.

From the Vines Expository Dictionary
Perfect, Perfectly

A. Adjectives.
1. teleios (G5049) signifies "having reached its end" (telos), "finished, complete perfect." It is used (I) of persons, (a) primarily of physical development, then, with ethical import, "fully grown, mature," 1Co_2:6; 1Co_14:20 ("men"; marg., "of full age"); Eph_4:13; Phi_3:15; Col_1:28; Col_4:12; in Heb_5:14, RV, "fullgrown" (marg., "perfect"), KJV, "of full age" (marg., "perfect"); (b) "complete," conveying the idea of goodness without necessary reference to maturity or what is expressed under (a) Mat_5:48; Mat_19:21; Jam_1:4 (2nd part); Jam_3:2. It is used thus of God in Mat_5:48; (II), of "things, complete, perfect," Rom_12:2; 1Co_13:10 (referring to the complete revelation of God's will and ways, whether in the completed Scriptures or in the hereafter); Jam_1:4 (of the work of patience); Jam_1:25; 1Jo_4:18.

Very good Boanerges and Faith4Bride, so now let's continue, just so it wont be misunderstood, how does Paul say this maturity is accomplished?

 

[RJ]

Thank you all for helping me to understand a bit more.
So the preaching is based on the law of the Old testiment? I know that jesus was the only perfect and sinnless man, and i know that through Him my sins are forgiven. I know that we are perfect through Jesus, but do we have to stay perfect? Through jesus is the only way that we are sanctified, so when we sin, we ask for forgivness again, is that staying perfect.?

No one but Jesus entered heaven perfect! We are not perfect now and never will be in this physical world. If we could make ourselves perfect, what is there a need for Jesus.

You should always allow the Holy Spirit to convict you and try to improve when you think you have sinned. But to stay up with every sin you commit and do it 24/7, is impossible. What do you do when you sin and you didn't know it? I tell you God is absolute perfection, for instance, there is no negative or doub in his being. Negativity and doubt can not coexist with God. Are you ever doubtful about anything in your life or negative? Do you ask for forgiveness for each of those?

I am not talking about the "Nasty Five" or the "Dirty Dozen" but sin is sin; it is our imperfection that separates us from God.

Look, please understand that if you are "Born Again", it is the Holy Spirit that lives in you that seals your salvation with God. But, Paul himself said that we only know in part, meaning we only have the first fruits of the spirit; and we continue to sin to some degree.

And don't let some unbeliever say that if you don't make yourself "perfect" every day, then you don't care about sin! It's not that we don't look at our sin, we do but Grace is that God said he doesn't!

Go read Romans 7 and see what St. Paul said about his own sin, he certainly didn't die perfect!!! And then look at Roman 8:1 and see what Paul has to say about the outcome of his sin!!!

When you see sin in your life, thank the Holy Spirit for revealing it to you and thank Jeus for what he did on the cross.

Please remember this one last thing, the "Finality of The Cross"!

Jesus died one time for all sin and for all of us. If you ritually go to God every day and seek forgiveness, the Bible says that is like asking Jesus to die on the cross all over again and much to his public shame!!!...And that ain't going to happen!

Yes, we have to constantly work at allowing the Holy Spirit to reveal all sorts of things in our lives, including sin but, rest assured my friend, you are forgiven! When you die and go to heaven, God will take one look at you and see Jesus Christ living in you and then he will make you perfect!

By the way, God does not say anything about you being perfect but he does say that you are blameless, Holy and Righteous!

God Bless