No Tribulation Temple On The Earth

[MightyAngel1]

I still believe he is referring to David’s descendants. If he is talking about a temple it is not a physical temple. 1 Corinthians 3:16.

Howdy Bambi!

First of all, You can believe anything you want. You can believe that milk cows are green. I really don't care. However, When the Bible says Nathan spoke to David as God directed Nathan to do, Then I will not write on a message board that I believe that Nathan spoke to someone else.

Secondly, 2 Samuel is in the Old Testament. There was no Spiritual Temple in the Old Testament only a physical Temple. So, When this prophecy comes to pass from the Old Testament, the people who are there in the future will see a physical Temple.

Bambi--What is the Law of Double reference. Do you have any scriptural references?

Sure. Just take a look at your own verses you posted in your post. Matter of Fact, You gave me the definition of the Law of Double Reference in your post. Then, You ask me what is the Law of Double Reference?

Bambi--Herod's temple was Prophesied for destruction in Daniel 9:26-27 and in Daniel 12:11. And by Christ in Matt 24:15 and Mark 13:14.

Ok, So, What do you do with Solomon's Temple being destroyed and the Jewish people scattered in 586 BC? Ignore this Temple destruction?

Bambi--Where in the New Testament are the Feast of Trumpets, Feast of the Great Day of Atonement and the Feast of Tabernacles talked about?

Well, You would have to have the understanding of these Feasts to recognize what is happening. If you do not understand the Feasts, Then, You will not recognize what is being described in these passages of Scripture.

The Feast of Trumpets is described in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17.
The Feast of the Great Day of Atonement is described in Matthew 24:31, Luke 1:32-33, Zechariah 14:4-5 and Leviticus 16:30-33.
The Feast of Tabernacles is described in Revelation 20:4 and Matthew 19:28.

Bambi--I would think the Great Day of Atonement was at the cross. The Feast of Tabernacles might also be at the day of Pentecost when the Holy Ghost came upon the church dwelling in them. I don’t understand the meaning behind the Feast of Trumpets, I’ll have to look that one up.

The Bible teaches that My people perish for a lack of Knowledge. I would strongly suggest that you study on all 7 Feasts of the Lord before you make any more statements like you have just done. What you have said is totally off the mark.

Do you see? You can't be trying to teach the Bible with I would think so and so or whatever might also be. Nope nope nope. Either you know the subject, Or, You don't. And, Right now, You don't know. What you are doing is guessing. Guessing is a very big NO NO.

Bambi--The 7th trumpet in Revelation blown by a created angel is not necessary the last trumpet. It says in 1 Thessalonians 4:16 …with the voice of the archangel… is this Christ’s voice or an angel? Whom does it say that blows the trumpet in this passage? Christ or the archangel? What difference does it make who blows?

Well, It makes a very big difference because of what Jesus said in Matthew 5:17-18. Jesus said that He came to fulfill the law. Jesus did not say that a created angel came with him to help him fulfill the Law. Why don't we take a look at this verse.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (KJV)

First of all, Do you see anything? Do you recognize anything? With the voice of the archangel and with the Trump of God are Jewish Idioms written in the Greek Language that have a very specific meaning.

The Voice of the Arch Angel literally means with a Commanding Voice. Why? Because, The Arch Angel is a Leader or Commander in the Lord's Army in Heaven.

With the Trump of God literally means that when Jesus Christ Commands the dead in Christ to rise out of their graves, His Voice will sound like a trumpet. Scripture reference is Revelation 4:1.

Hence the fulfillment of the Feast of Trumpets by Jesus Christ when the Rapture occurs before the Tribulation period begins. Again, Revelation 4:1. The Tribulation period begins in Revelation 6.

I can assure you of this. Revelation 4:1 DOES NOT OCCUR after Revelation 6.

Bambi--At Christ return in 2 Peter 3 is when the church will be rapture just before the destruction. Matt 24:37-38, Luke 17:26-27.

You have said this before. I then asked you a question and you have not answered my question. My question was...Where will you be? No response from you. You are giving me the impression that you do not know the answer.

Bambi--My mistake, your right, there is no division.

Very good.

Bambi--But the word “difference” in the Greek is “diastole” which also means “distinction“. The same word used in 1 Corinthians 14:7. Either way you look at it. Believing Jews and believing Gentiles are all part of the church.

Ah, No They are not part of the Christian Church. The Panagureis are not part of the Christian Church. This is why we have a distinction in the Bible as you have correctly pointed out. See Hebrews 12:23.

The Bible specifically states...To the general assembly (panagureis) and Church (ekklesia) of the First born (KJV). This is why we have a distinction in the Bible between the panagureis and the ekklesia. We clearly see this distinction in Ephesians 2:19.

The Ekklesia (Christian Church) are fellowcitizens with the panagureis (Saints) in the Spiritual Kingdom of God. This relationship in the Spiritual Kingdom of God produces a Joint body in Christ. See Ephesians 3:6. The Greek word used here is sussomos which means joint body.

Bambi--You say the Panagureis keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus, but then you say that the Ekklesia just have the Faith of Jesus. Does not the church keep the commandments of God as well? Hebrews 10:16.

No, The Christian Church does not keep the Commandments of God. We are not allowed to keep them. See Galatians 5:3. We can only keep the Commandments of Christ which is the Faith of Jesus.

But, The Jews are a different story. Hence the Distinction in Scripture. Now, Have you ever wondered why Paul Preached the Gospel of UNCIRCUMCISION and Peter preached the Gospel of circumcision? See Galatians 2:7.

Now, You know the rest of the story.

Bambi--You give me a choice to choose which seed to choose that’s in Galatians 3:7. Look to Galatians 3:16, 26, 28-29 for your answer.

I already know what these verse say. That is why I asked you the question on Galatians 3:7 of which you cannot answer. So, Let us look at the choices once again...


1) Abraham's Seed multiplied as the dust of the earth. Genesis 13:16.
2) Abraham's Seed multiplied as the stars of the Heaven. Genesis 15:4-5.
3) Isaac's Seed multiplied as the stars of the Heaven. Genesis 26:4.
4) Jacob's Seed multiplied as the dust of the earth. Genesis 28:14.

The question once again is...Who is this seed in Galatians 3:7?

Here is the answer. The Answer is choice #2.

Now, I will ask you a question. Why don't you look at Hebrews 10:16 and looking at the choices above, please tell me who the specific audience is in that verse? Thank you.

God Bless You!

 

[MightyAngel1]

I just remembered something. Wasn't the law fulfilled at the cross. Romans 8:4 And doesn't all of your feasts deal with the sinfulness of man? I believe all of the feasts were fulfilled at the cross.:confused2:

Howdy Bambi!

No, The Law was not fulfilled at the cross. The Curse of the Law was nailed to the cross. Not the Law itself. Christ fulfilled the first 4 Feasts of the Lord because each Feast of the Lord is a picture that points to Jesus Christ. And, Each Feast of the Lord will tell you what Christ will do or has already done.

Here is an example. Christ was the Sacrificial Lamb of God that taketh away the sin of the World. John 1:29. Hence, The Fulfillment of the Feast of Passover when Christ died on the cross.

Jesus said that He was the bread that came down from heaven. Once Christ died on the cross, Jesus became the dead bread from heaven. Hence, The Fulfillment of the Feast of UnLeavened bread which is dead bread. In other words, Bread with no yeast. Bread that does not rise.

When Christ rose from the dead 3 days later, Christ was the first born from the dead. In other words, The First person to come back from the grave. Hence, The Fulfillment of the Feast of First Fruits because Christ was the first fruits from the grave of the dead.

Then, The Last Feast of the Lord that Christ fulfilled at His First Advent was the Feast of Pentecost. Do you notice the name of this feast?

Christ fulfilled this Feast of the Lord in Acts 2:1. This is when the 120 in the upper room were filled with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. This Indwelling occurred when the Day of Pentecost was fully come. Acts 2:1.

Now, If you think that all of the 7 Feasts of the Lord have already been fullfilled, Then, After Acts 2:1, Please show me the Scripture references that clearly indicate Christ fulfilling these last 3 Feasts of the Lord in the first Century.

God Bless You!

 

[MightyAngel1]

I just remembered something. Wasn't the law fulfilled at the cross. Romans 8:4 And doesn't all of your feasts deal with the sinfulness of man? I believe all of the feasts were fulfilled at the cross.:confused2:

Howdy Bambi!

I wanted to come back to this post of yours for a moment. I was thinking about what you said and began to ponder what would not happen if all of the Law was fulfilled at the cross. So, I came up with a list of things that will not happen if all of the Law of God was fulfilled at the cross. Here is the list...

1) The Feast of Trumpets--The Rapture of all believers in Christ. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
2) The rebuilding of the Tabernacle David. Acts 15:16-17
3) The Tribulation period. Revelation Chapters 6 -16
4) The Glorious Return of Jesus Christ. Matthew 24:29-30
5) The Gathering of the Seed of Jacob multiplied as the dust of the earth. Matthew 24:31
6) The Feast of the Great Day of Atonement. Matthew 24:31, Luke 1:32-33, Zechariah 14:4-5, and Leviticus 16:30-33
7) The Judgment of the Nations. Matthew 25:31-46
8) Satan bound for 1000 years in the Bottomless pit. Revelation 20:1-3
9) The Feast of Tabernacles--The 1000 Year Reign of Christ here on this Earth. Revelation 20:4
10) Matthew 19:28
11) Satan loosed for a season and the final rebellion. Revelation 20:7-9
12) Satan cast into the Lake of Fire. Revelation 20:10
13) The Great White Throne of Judgment. Revelation 20:11-15.

This list is not exhaustive. But, This list should give you something to think about in believing all of the Law of God was fulfilled at the cross. People who believe that all of the Law of God was fulfilled at the cross do not teach this list. I wonder why?

The next point I wanted to show you is simply this regarding the distinction you brought up earlier between the panagureis and the ekklesia.

The panagureis are overcome by the antichrist in Revelation 13:7. The Bible says...And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

The Panagureis (Saints) are overcome by the antichrist. The ekklesia (Christians) are never overcome by the devil. Isn't this a fascinating distinction? It is for me.

God Bless You!

 

[Bambi]

?????

I'm not sure about all you wrote so I'm going to have to disagree with you, MA.

The seed of Abraham is Christ.
Gal 3:16
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.


The Jews are part of the church.

Acts 7:38
38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:
(KJV)

The Christ fulfilled the law and the prophets. See Matt 5:17, and study the whole book of Hebrews.

 

[MightyAngel1]

I'm not sure about all you wrote so I'm going to have to disagree with you, MA.

Howdy Bambi!

May I make a suggestion? Instead of disagreeing, Get your Bible along with a Hebrew/Greek Concordance and begin studying the 7 Feasts of the Lord with the Seed Covenant of Abraham and the Covenant of Circumcision, Genesis 17:10-14.

Study these 2 Covenants until you know them with your eyes closed. Then, Go to the New Testament and begin identifying the specific audience in each Chapter of each book of the New Testament. Doing this will help you understand much better End Time Bible Prophecy.

When someone tells you that the Panagureis are part of the Ekklesia, You will know better. Hebrews 12:23 and Genesis 17:10-14. Case in point...

1. The Panagureis are the promised Seed of Abraham called in Isaac. Genesis 21:12, Romans 9:7 and Hebrews 11:18. The Apostle Peter preached the Gospel of Circumcision.

2. The Ekklesia are the faith Seed of Abraham. Genesis 15:4-5, Galatians 3:7, and Ephesians 5:27. Additional Scripture reference is Acts 15:14 and Colossians 2:14. The Apostle Paul preached the Gospel of UNCIRCUMCISION.

Bambi--The seed of Abraham is Christ.
Gal 3:16
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Right. The Seed of Abraham is Jesus Christ. And, According to God the Father in Genesis 21:12, Romans 9:7, and Hebrews 11:18, Jesus Christ is the Seed of Abraham called in Isaac. Because, Jesus Christ is the Promised Messiah.

Jesus Christ IS NOT CALLED in Abraham. The Panagureis are called in Isaac. The Ekklesia is called in Abraham. This concept is the Father and Son Concept that is clearly taught in the Seed Covenant of Abraham. Where will you find this teaching? Back in Genesis.

Bambi--The Jews are part of the church.

The Christian Church IS NOT the panagureis. The Christian Church is the Ekklesia. Hebrews 12:23.

Bambi--Acts 7:38
38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us: (KJV)

Who is Stephen talking about in his defense before he was stoned to death? Stephen is talking about the Congregation, i.e. Church, of the Wilderness. The Old Testament Church which consisted of Old Testament Jewish believers in the ONE LORD of Deuteronomy 6:4.

The Church of the Wilderness in the Old Testament practiced Judaism. What is Old Testament Judaism? Jewish Believers, i.e. Old Testament Saints, in the I AM THAT I AM, who kept the Commandments of God.

The Descendents of the Church of the Wilderness are clearly shown in Acts 2 on the Day of Pentecost Worshipping the ONE LORD of Deuteronomy 6:4 with the Feast of Pentecost when Peter stood up and preached the Gospel of Circumcision, i.e. the Gospel of the Kingdom see Matthew 24:14, regarding the Resurrection of Jesus Christ the Son of the Ever Living God.

After the Cross, Jewish believers in the Messiah Jesus Christ worshiped the Ever Living God and His Holy Son Jesus Christ with New Testament Judaism. See John 14:1.

What is New Testament Judaism? Jewish Believers in Jesus Christ the Messiah who keep the Commandments of God because of the Covenant of Circumcision and have the Faith of Jesus Christ. See Acts Chapter 2, Revelation 14:12, and Galatians 5:3.

You have just received a crash course in the Seed Covenant of Abraham and the Covenant of Circumcision.

Bambi--The Christ fulfilled the law and the prophets. See Matt 5:17, and study the whole book of Hebrews.

Hebrews 10:16 THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THEM AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAITH THE LORD, I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR HEARTS, AND IN THEIR MINDS WILL I WRITE THEM;

1) Abraham's Seed multiplied as the dust of the earth. Genesis 13:16.
2) Abraham's Seed multiplied as the stars of the Heaven. Genesis 15:4-5.
3) Isaac's Seed multiplied as the stars of the Heaven. Genesis 26:4.
4) Jacob's Seed multiplied as the dust of the earth. Genesis 28:14.

Now, I will ask you a question. Why don't you look at Hebrews 10:16 and looking at the choices above, please tell me who the specific audience is in that verse? Thank you.

Looking at the choices above the correct answer for Hebrews 10:16 is Choice #4. Jacob's Seed Multiplied as the dust of the earth. They are also found in Romans 11:8.

This seed of Jacob is the surviving remnant of Zechariah 13:8-9 who come through the Tribulation period and when they see Christ coming in all of His Glory, Matthew 24:29-30, will say BLESSED IS HE WHO COMETH IN THE NAME OF THE LORD. Matthew 23:39.

God Bless You!

 

[Stephen1]

The next temple of the Lord's on the earth will be built for His millennial kingdom on the earth .... after the battle of Armageddon at the end of the tribulation period [Ezekiel 38,39,40] [Revelation 14,16,19]

The will be no temple of Lord's on the mount during the coming tribulation period .... but there will be a temple of the little horn's god on the mount .... it is there at this time, the Al Aqsa mosque

 

[MightyAngel1]

The next temple of the Lord's on the earth will be built for His millennial kingdom on the earth .... after the battle of Armageddon at the end of the tribulation period [Ezekiel 38,39,40] [Revelation 14,16,19]

Howdy Stephen1!

The Temple that is built during the Millennial Reign of Jesus Christ will be a smaller version of the New Jerusalem which is in Heaven right now as we speak. Jesus Christ will build This Temple Himself according to Scripture. Ezekiel 40:2-4.

Ezekiel Chapters 37-39 describe the renewing of the Nation of Israel and the Invasion of Israel from Russia, Iran and other countries of Europe and the Middle East to include Germany, Turkey, Lebanon, Jordan, Ethiopia, Libya, and Saudi Arabia. See Ezekiel 38:5-6.

When these countries invade Israel, God will destroy 5/6th of this Army. See Ezekiel 39:2. Only 1/6th of this Army will survive. And, Israel will spend 7 months burying the dead and spend 7 years burning the invaders weapons of war. Ezekiel 39:8-12.

Now, Allow me a moment to show you something here. A Distinction between this Invasion in Ezekiel 39:2 and the Battle of Armageddon at the end of the Tribulation period. Revelation 19:15-21.

1) Ezekiel 39:2 Invasion by Russia and other countries--1/6th of the Army survives according to God. There are no resurrections.

2) The Battle of Armageddon--First, There is only one survivor of this Battle, satan, with 2 immediate resurrections which are The Antichrist and the False Prophet.

Both of these men, the antichrist and the false prophet, die during the Battle of Armageddon and are immediately resurrected and cast alive into the Lake of Fire. Revelation 19:20 and Daniel 7:11.

Secondly, The Entire Army at the Battle of Armageddon that stands against Christ does not survive but this entire army dies. Revelation 19:21.

In brief...

1) Ezekiel 39:2--1/6th of the invading army survives.
2) Revelation 19:15-21--Entire Army dies. No human survivors.

Would you care to explain how 1/6th of an army surviving is you seeing this event as the very same war where the entire army dies? At this point, This is what you have shown me...

1/6th of an Army surviving invasion = No Human Survivors. I would really like to see your explanation please.

Stephen1--The will be no temple of Lord's on the mount during the coming tribulation period .... but there will be a temple of the little horn's god on the mount .... it is there at this time, the Al Aqsa mosque

I was wondering when someone would bring this point up. God says that He will rebuild the Tabernacle of David. See Acts 15:16. I was just wondering...from your point of view, Can you tell me why some Christians do not believe what God says He will do?

The Tabernacle of David is rebuilt so that the Law of Moses can be re-instituted, see Malachi 4:4-6, so that Israel and the residue of men might seek after the Lord God Almighty during the Tribulation period. Elijah will be there with the other witness prophesying before this very Temple in Jerusalem for the first 42 months. See Revelation 11:3-4.

And, for your information, The Al Aqsa Mosque will be removed from the Temple mount so that the Tabernacle of David can be rebuilt. Right now, This will not happen. But, When the Peace Covenant between Israel and the man of sin is signed, See Daniel 9:27, The Al Aqsa Mosque is coming down.

Why? The Antichrist will have such power over the Muslims that they will believe everything that he says and allow the Mosque to be dismantled. See 2 Thessalonians 2:8-12 and Daniel 8:24.

The Antichrist will not sit in the Al Aqsa Mosque. The Antichrist sits in the Jewish Temple and desecrates this Jewish Temple with the abomination that he will set up. See Matthew 24:15 and Daniel 8:9-14.

The Tabernacle of David is rebuilt so that the prophecy of Luke 1:32-33 will come to pass as God has declared. God the Father will give to His Only Begotten Son the Throne of His Father David.

Jesus Christ will sit on this Throne of the Tabernacle of David and judge the Nations after the Battle of Armageddon and the gathering of the Seed of Jacob multiplied as the dust of the earth right here on this earth in Jerusalem. See Matthew 25:31.

God Bless You!

 

[Stephen1]

"The Al Aqsa Mosque will be removed from the Temple"

>Scripture please?

>Also, Ezekiel's vision has two parts separated by the 42 month rule of satan's little horn/beast, king of the north .... the invasion of Israel at the middle of the 70th week decreed ..... and the resultant battle of Armageddon at the end of the period

>This battle is the same as Revelation 14:14-21; 16:1-16; 19:11-21

>Gog is satan [Ezekiel 38:17], not a Russian, and his followers will all be today's Middle Eastern Islamics [Psalms 83; Ezekiel 38:4-7]

Gog [satan] will cause another human rebellion against the Lord at the end of His coming millennial kingdom on the earth whe he is released from the abyss [Revelation 20:7-10]

.... and there will be mortal human survivors of the tribulation period [Matthew 24:29-31; 25:31-46]

>There are no instructions to rebuild a tribulation temple of the Lord's on the mount in scripture [Revelation 11:1-2] .... it is the Lord's temple in heaven that is in view and the court [top of the mount] is "without" his earthly temple .... not there

... and the Lord said there would not be one stone of His temple left standing on the mount at the time of the end .... there is not today and there will not be during the coming tribulation period [Matthew 24:2]

>The mount and Jerusalem will be invaded and occupied by he adherents of Islam for 42 months [1260 days .... last half of the 70th week decreed] .... the battle of Armageddon will be fought in the next 30 days [Daniel 12; Micah 5]

>Study yourself approved son

 

[MightyAngel1]

"The Al Aqsa Mosque will be removed from the Temple"

>Scripture please?

Howdy Stephen1!

Well, for starters, Why don't you study 1 and 2 Samuel, 1 and 2 Kings, and 1 and 2 Chronicles. You will find, for an example, that King David never shared the Glory of the Ark of the Covenant that he brought to Jerusalem with any other group of people. Fascinating isn't.

Secondly, Study Isaiah 42:8 and ponder what God is saying in this verse. For me, God does not give His Glory to any other neither does God share His Glory with the Muslim god allah right next door on the very same Temple mount in Jerusalem. God said it. I believe it!

Thirdly, God said in Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. The Muslim Temple for their god allah sitting next door to the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem on the very same Temple Mount would be a violation of this Holy Commandment.

Stephen1>--Also, Ezekiel's vision has two parts separated by the 42 month rule of satan's little horn/beast, king of the north .... the invasion of Israel at the middle of the 70th week decreed ..... and the resultant battle of Armageddon at the end of the period

>This battle is the same as Revelation 14:14-21; 16:1-16; 19:11-21

Sorry friend, But No, These battles are not the same battle. Allow me a moment to show you something here.

Revelation 14:14-21 clearly describes the final therizo of the panagureis in the Tribulation period before Revelation 16 occurs. The Panagureis in Revelation 14:14-21 who are reaped, see Revelation 14:16, are Isaac's Seed multiplied as the stars of the Heaven.

God removes them from this earth before He pours out the 7 vials described in Revelation 16. When this final therizo takes place, we clearly see a battle taking place in and around Jerusalem. And, It shore ain't pretty.

Revelation 19:11-21 occurs after Revelation 16. Why? Christ does not return to this earth when the antichrist is sitting on the Throne of the Jewish Temple. Christ returns when the antichrist and his army are gathered at the valley of Armageddon which is north of Jerusalem by the way.

Stephen1>--Gog is satan [Ezekiel 38:17], not a Russian, and his followers will all be today's Middle Eastern Islamics [Psalms 83; Ezekiel 38:4-7]

I disagree with you. Gog is a human being and at this point in time, No one knows his name as far as I know. When you study Ezekiel 38 out in its fullest capacity, You will find that satan was not prophesied by the Old Testament prophets.

Again, See Ezekiel 38:17. What you will find is that a person, i.e. human being, was prophesied by the Old Testament Prophets that God would bring him against His Chosen People.

Stephen1--Gog [satan] will cause another human rebellion against the Lord at the end of His coming millennial kingdom on the earth whe he is released from the abyss [Revelation 20:7-10]

Yes, Satan is released after the 1000 year Reign of Jesus Christ here on this earth. Who satan possesses at this future time after the Millennial Reign of Christ to lead this rebellion is not known. This person is a mystery and we know this rebellion will happen.

Stephen--.... and there will be mortal human survivors of the tribulation period [Matthew 24:29-31; 25:31-46]

I have never said there would not be.

Stephen1>--There are no instructions to rebuild a tribulation temple of the Lord's on the mount in scripture [Revelation 11:1-2] .... it is the Lord's temple in heaven that is in view and the court [top of the mount] is "without" his earthly temple .... not there

There most certainly is an instruction to rebuild the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem. Specifically, The Tabernacle of David. See Acts 15:16. This is when Elijah comes back bringing the Law of Moses with him along with the other witness of Revelation 11:3-4.

The Law of Moses will be re-instituted during Daniel's 70th Week. See Daniel 9:27 and Malachi 4:4-6. There is a very specific reason for this which I will tell you next.

Stephen1--... and the Lord said there would not be one stone of His temple left standing on the mount at the time of the end .... there is not today and there will not be during the coming tribulation period [Matthew 24:2]

Well, I suggest that you continue reading in this very same Chapter of Matthew until you get to Matthew 24:14. Jesus specifically prophesies And this Gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Do you truly understand this prophecy of Jesus Christ? I really don't think you do because you do not understand Kingdom operation. The Gospel of the Kingdom cannot be preached unto all Nations without a Jewish Temple in Jerusalem. This is what this prophecy is all about.

Want more proof? Look at the Gospel that Jesus Christ preached. See Matthew 4:17. What was in place when He began His Ministry preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom? The Jewish Temple in Jerusalem which happened to be the Temple of Herod.

Therefore, When the 144,000 of Revelation 7:1-8 begin to preach the Gospel of the Kingdom as prophesied by Jesus Christ during the Tribulation period, what do you think will be in place? The rebuilt Tabernacle of David. See Acts 15:16 and Hosea 3:4-5.

Stephen1>--The mount and Jerusalem will be invaded and occupied by he adherents of Islam for 42 months [1260 days .... last half of the 70th week decreed] .... the battle of Armageddon will be fought in the next 30 days [Daniel 12; Micah 5]

>Study yourself approved son

Good Grief. I do in accordance with 2 Timothy 2:15.

God Bless You!

 

[Stephen1]

"And this Gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a wi tness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."

>He speaks of the time of the end when the gospel of the kingdom will be preached by the 144,000 national Israelites .... not in the first century, and not over the last 2,000 years [Revelation 14:6]

>You and I are miles apart son .... your interpretations are post-tribulational

>I hold to the pre-tribulational/dispensational/futuristic view of the prophetic scriptures

>No common ground is available to us for discussion

 

[MightyAngel1]

"And this Gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a wi tness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."

>He speaks of the time of the end when the gospel of the kingdom will be preached by the 144,000 national Israelites .... not in the first century, and not over the last 2,000 years [Revelation 14:6]

Howdy Stephen!

That is precisely what I teach. The 144,000 preach the Gospel of the Kingdom during the first 42 months of the Tribulation period. I think you misunderstood my question.

Stephen-->You and I are miles apart son .... your interpretations are post-tribulational

Well, That is because you do not know me. Everyone who knows me knows that I am staunchly a PreTribulation Rapturist. And, The Doctrine of PreTrib is precisely what I teach.

Stephen-->I hold to the pre-tribulational/dispensational/futuristic view of the prophetic scriptures

Well, Good for you.

Stephen-->No common ground is available to us for discussion

Sorry to hear that. You have a nice day.

God Bless You!

 

[MightyAngel1]

"And this Gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a wi tness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."

>He speaks of the time of the end when the gospel of the kingdom will be preached by the 144,000 national Israelites .... not in the first century, and not over the last 2,000 years [Revelation 14:6]

>You and I are miles apart son .... your interpretations are post-tribulational

>I hold to the pre-tribulational/dispensational/futuristic view of the prophetic scriptures

>No common ground is available to us for discussion

Howdy Stephen1!

I wanted to come back and comment on what you said here. You said quote I hold to the pre-tribulational/dispensational/futuristic view of the prophetic scriptures.

The Pre-Tribulational/dispensational/futuristic view of the prophetic Scriptures. In other words, You believe that the Christian Church began in Acts 2. Is that right?

Well, Here is the Seed Covenant of Abraham as God gave this Covenant to Abraham in Genesis...

1) Abraham's Seed multiplied as the dust of the earth.
2) Abraham's Seed multiplied as the stars of the heaven.
3) Isaac's Seed multiplied as the stars of the heaven.
4) Jacob's Seed multiplied as the dust of the earth.

Now, My question to you is...Who is the specific audience in Acts Chapter 2? If you are true Pre-Tribulational/dispensational/futuristic, Then, You will not hesitate to answer this question with the correct answer from the list above directly from God's Holy Word.

Remember, In this case of Acts Chapter 2, There are only two correct answers because God does not make any mistakes in any Dispensations of time, i.e. the Times of the Gentiles, or Covenants. I am certain you would agree.

God Bless You!

 

[Stephen1]

Believers in Jesus Christ are both Israelite and Gentile .... a few Israelites, many Gentiles

..... in matters regarding salvation only .... not national identity

Once the fullness of the Gentiles has come .... the Lord will bring His hour of trial

A believing remnant of national Israel will turn during this coming period of His wrath

Most of the Gentiles of the nations will not repent during the period and will be killed and lost forever .... billions

There will be no temple of the Lord's on the mount during this period [Revelation 11:2]

The temple that the little horn/beast will grandstand in will be the temple of his god who is satan

 

[MightyAngel1]

Believers in Jesus Christ are both Israelite and Gentile .... a few Israelites, many Gentiles

Howdy Stephen!

I am very glad that you did not show a division here. What you are showing me is a distinction. Very good. This Distinction is the Sussomos in the Greek language. See Ephesians 3:6.

Stephen--..... in matters regarding salvation only .... not national identity

And, God shows us a Heavenly identifier. See Hebrews 12:23. Since, There is a Heavenly identifier, There should also be a Spiritual Identifier here on this earth. Wouldn't you agree?

In other words, Kingdom Operation in Heaven should be the same Spiritual Operation here on earth? I hope you say yes.

Suffice it to say, I hope you do not believe that God does one thing in Heaven and the opposite on earth? I hope not. If you have any doubts, just remember this. The Law of God in Heaven is the exact same Spiritual Law here on this earth.

Stephen--Once the fullness of the Gentiles has come .... the Lord will bring His hour of trial

Yep, I believe that. Once the fullness of the ekklesia is complete, this is when the harpazo will occur before the Tribulation period begins. See Revelation 4:1 and Romans 11:25.

Stephen--A believing remnant of national Israel will turn during this coming period of His wrath

When the Tribulation period begins, The blinded Seed of Jacob multiplied as the dust of the earth enters into this Tribulation period.

A believing Remnant which begins with the 144,000 of Revelation 7:1-8, after entering into the Tribulation period and after the man of sin is revealed to the World, who will preach the Gospel of the Kingdom as prophesied by Jesus Christ Himself in Matthew 24:14.

The Remaining unbelieving remnant will flee to the wilderness at the midpoint of the Tribulation period because 2/3 of Israel will have died during the Tribulation period. See Zechariah 13:8-9.

Just before Christ returns, This unbelieving Remnant of the Seed of Jacob will have realized that Jesus Christ is the Messiah and call upon him. See Matthew 23:39.

Stephen--Most of the Gentiles of the nations will not repent during the period and will be killed and lost forever .... billions

I believe that many people, the number I do not know, will take the mark of the beast. When they do, They seal their fate into the Lake of Fire where they will be tormented forever and ever and never be consumed by this fire.

Stephen--There will be no temple of the Lord's on the mount during this period [Revelation 11:2]

The temple that the little horn/beast will grandstand in will be the temple of his god who is satan

This is the point where You and I stand in odds with each other, because of what Jesus says in Matthew 24:15.

The Antichrist will stand in the Holy Place according to Jesus. You say the opposite of Jesus. You say he does not stand in the Holy Place. Why? Why do you say the opposite of Jesus?

Regarding the Tribulation period, I only know of One Holy Place and that Holy Place is in a Jewish Temple. Not, Anything of satan's. I declare to you today that satan is not holy.

God Bless You!

 

[Stephen1]

"In other words, Kingdom Operation in Heaven should be the same Spiritual Operation here on earth?"

>Matthew 25:1-13 .... the kingdom of heaven is composed of those who belong to Jesus Christ .... one either does, or does not

>This is a contrasting passage of scripture compared to Matthew 24 which is all about the generation of national Israel living at the time of the end .... today's church will already be immortalized

>His kingdom is an invisible one at present, consisting of all that belong to Him [both those asleep and those living], and the living exist on the earth, but separate from the unbelieving world

>This is going to change course and He will immortalize at His "harpazo" action for the believer

>Those left on the earth will then be subjected suddenly to His coming hour of trial and judgment .... some will turn during the period .... most will not .... most of those who do will be martyred by the beast and his followers

>Those of today's "church" consisting of all who belong to the Lord, both those of the past and today, will be immortal and with Him as the tribulation progresses on the earth [Revelation 4,5,7,11,12,13,17,19,20 (those on thrones)] .... Revelation is repetitive and this theme regarding those who "dwell in heaven" is continouous as the vision unfolds

>The "holy place" [topos] is the temple mount ... not the Lord's temple .... the Lord's said "the holy place"

>A careful study of Daniel's visions and a good concordance will comfirm in each reference to the same as this relates to the time of the end

>Satan's beast will sit in the temple of his "god" .... Paul understood the relationship between a false god and a heathen temple when he made this declaration

>Those of the "woman" [Israel] who flee [Revelation 12 .... those in "Judaea"] will be a believing remnant part of the nation [there will also be others residing outside of the nation] .... and this is why they will flee for the Lord's protection east of Jerusalem in the Jordanian wilderness [Bozrah, Petra] .... these will know the Lord by the middle of the 70th week when satan's beast invades .... their conversion will come about by the witness of the 144,000 Israelites who will begin their service in Israel first .... then they will move to the nations .... the Lord will lead them, but He will not be seen by the world until just after the tribulation period is over [Matthew 24:29-31; Revelation 1:7; 14:1-7]

 

[MightyAngel1]

"MA1--In other words, Kingdom Operation in Heaven should be the same Spiritual Operation here on earth?"

>Matthew 25:1-13 .... the kingdom of heaven is composed of those who belong to Jesus Christ .... one either does, or does not

Howdy Stephen!

You posted Matthew 25:1-13. A very powerful passage of Scripture. You say the Kingdom of Heaven is composed of those who belong to Jesus Christ. According to the context of this passage, The Wheat belong to Jesus Christ and therefore compose the Kingdom of Heaven. I stand in agreement with you.

Also, According to God's Holy Word, The Kingdom of Heaven is the Kingdom of Christ. See Ephesians 5:5.

Now, I have a second very important question based on the Law of Harvests of the Old Testament. The Question is...Who composes the Kingdom of God and what is the specific identifier of this group?

note to question: The Wheat is the identifier of the Jewish believers in Christ who compose the Kingdom of Heaven. In Kingdom Operation, The Wheat are the panagureis who compose the Kingdom of Heaven here on this earth.

Kingdom Operation in Heaven when defined also defines Spiritual Operation here on this earth. Because, Kingdom Operation in Heaven and Spiritual Operation here on earth regarding the Law of God are precisely the same.

Stephen-->This is a contrasting passage of scripture compared to Matthew 24 which is all about the generation of national Israel living at the time of the end .... today's church will already be immortalized

Contrasting now, Yes. But, When the time comes, The remnant of the Seed of Jacob multiplied as the dust of the earth will become part of the Wheat who compose the Kingdom of Heaven here on this earth in the Millennial Reign of Jesus Christ.

Stephen-->His kingdom is an invisible one at present, consisting of all that belong to Him [both those asleep and those living], and the living exist on the earth, but separate from the unbelieving world

When you say those asleep, What is your definition?

Stephen-->This is going to change course and He will immortalize at His "harpazo" action for the believer

>Those left on the earth will then be subjected suddenly to His coming hour of trial and judgment .... some will turn during the period .... most will not .... most of those who do will be martyred by the beast and his followers

Regarding the Wheat, Who is specifically martyred by the beast?

1) Abraham's Seed multiplied as the dust of the earth.
2) Abraham's Seed multiplied as the stars of the Heaven.
3) Isaac's Seed multiplied as the stars of the Heaven.
4) Jacob's Seed multiplied as the dust of the earth.

Using the Law of God regarding Kingdom Operation, Which choice do you make?

Stephen-->Those of today's "church" consisting of all who belong to the Lord, both those of the past and today, will be immortal and with Him as the tribulation progresses on the earth [Revelation 4,5,7,11,12,13,17,19,20 (those on thrones)] .... Revelation is repetitive and this theme regarding those who "dwell in heaven" is continouous as the vision unfolds

Who do you see in Scripture as the Wife of God?

Stephen-->The "holy place" [topos] is the temple mount ... not the Lord's temple .... the Lord's said "the holy place"

Yes, Jesus Christ said in Matthew 24:15 the Holy Place. The Greek Word used here in this verse is hagios. The definition is very specific and totally unchangeable.

In Acts 6:13, The very same Greek Word hagios is used to describe the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem. The very same word of Matthew 24:15.

The Most interesting aspect of the Greek Word hagios is that this word also indicates that the inner sanctuary is a Holy Place as well as the outer sanctuary is also a Holy Place by definition.

Matter of Fact, regarding the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem, You do not have one without the other. In other words, You do not have the outer sanctuary without the inner sanctuary. See Revelation 11:1-2.

The Tabernacle of David is here on this earth in Jerusalem on the Temple Mount during the Tribulation Period just as God has decreed it would be. See Acts 15:16.

Stephen-->Satan's beast will sit in the temple of his "god" .... Paul understood the relationship between a false god and a heathen temple when he made this declaration

That is what you say. And, Jesus said When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the Holy Place, (whoso readeth, let him understand):

Jesus is clear and there is no mistake here. The hagios is referring to the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem on the Temple Mount where the abomination of desolation will stand.

Stephen-->Those of the "woman" [Israel] who flee [Revelation 12 .... those in "Judaea"] will be a believing remnant part of the nation [there will also be others residing outside of the nation] .... and this is why they will flee for the Lord's protection east of Jerusalem in the Jordanian wilderness [Bozrah, Petra] ....

I agree that the fleeing remnant of Jacob's seed multiplied as the dust of the earth move to the wilderness, i.e petra. Some call this place the Rock City or Rock fortified City in Jordan.

Stephen--these will know the Lord by the middle of the 70th week when satan's beast invades .... their conversion will come about by the witness of the 144,000 Israelites who will begin their service in Israel first .... then they will move to the nations .... the Lord will lead them, but He will not be seen by the world until just after the tribulation period is over [Matthew 24:29-31; Revelation 1:7; 14:1-7]

Here is a Scriptural test for you. If The fleeing remnant believe in the Messiah at the middle of the Tribulation period as you claim, Then, There is no need for them to flee. They would be harpazoed with the 144,000. But, They are not.

Since, This remnant of Israel is left behind, This is a very clear indication that they have not accepted Jesus Christ as Messiah at this point and the very reason why they are left behind. See Acts 15:17. Remember this...Only the 144,000 believing Jews are harpazoed at the midpoint, The kataloipas, i.e. residue, (unbelieving) are left behind.

God Bless You!

 

[Stephen1]

>The holy "place" is "topos" .... see my beginning post on this thread

.... and Revelation 11 speaks of the Lord's temple in heaven [those worshiping therein are the pre-tribulation church] .... the contrast is the mount [court] on the earth without the temple which will be overrun by the beast and his followers

>All of the wheat are believers from all ages [those who belong to the Lord] .... all unbelieves are the tares [those who do not] .... the tares will be burned just after the Lord's millennial kingdom on the earth [Revelation 20].... the wheat will enter eternity [Revelation 21]

>Those "asleep" ... I would suggest that you use a good Bible search engine on "asleep" to find your answer .... Paul describes the dead in Christ as sleeping and who will awake at the Lord's "harpazo" action which is still future .... I would also suggest Daniel 12:2

>Those Israelites who flee will be tribulation believers along with the 144,000 Israelites who will witness to them .... the 144,000 Israelites wil be the first mortal converts [first fruits of the tribulation period] .... after the church has already been called

>Neither of these groupings of believing Israelites will be immortalized by the Lord's "harpazo" action, but they will enter the Lord's millennial kingdom on the earth as mortals

>Both will be protected from harm by the wiles of the tribulation period

 

[MightyAngel1]

>The holy "place" is "topos" .... see my beginning post on this thread

.... and Revelation 11 speaks of the Lord's temple in heaven [those worshiping therein are the pre-tribulation church] .... the contrast is the mount [court] on the earth without the temple which will be overrun by the beast and his followers

Howdy Stephen!

So, You separate the Words Holy Place and focus only on place. Well, When you are going to tell me about the hagios topos on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem? Because, topos also means room, place, or quarter.

And, As you well know since you have a concordance, Topos is a place indefinite; a portion of space viewed in reference to its occupancy, or as appropriated to itself. There are several more definitions as well.

I will say this. I have never found in my studies of the Bible on the Jewish Temple where God separates His Temple with one court on earth and the other in heaven. I have never found any such thing in the Law of God. What you are doing to God's Temple is atrocious.

Stephen-->All of the wheat are believers from all ages [those who belong to the Lord]

Wrong Answer. I had a hunch you did not know the Law of God. And, I was right. The Jewish Believers in Jesus Christ are identified as the Wheat. The Gentile Believers in Jesus Christ are identified as the Barley. See the Old Testament on the Law of Harvests.

The Law of Harvests separates the Barley from the Wheat. Fascinating isn't. This is why it is so very important to study the Law of God so when you come across someone who teaches against the Law of God, You will be able to recognize the error.

The Barley are fellowcitizens of the Wheat in the Spiritual Kingdom of God here on earth. The Barley and the Wheat compose the Joint body of believers in the Spiritual Kingdom of God. See Ephesians 2:19 and Ephesians 3:6.

The Wheat are the Wife of God. See Genesis 15:17-18 and Jeremiah 3:14. The Barley are the Bride of Christ. See Ephesians 5:27, Acts 15:14,and 2 Corinthians 11:2.

The Wheat inherit the Kingdom of Heaven which is the Kingdom of Christ here on earth. See Ephesians 5:5. The Barley inherit the Kingdom of God which is in Heaven. 2 Thessalonians 1:5.

The Barley are heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ.
The Wheat are joint heirs with God and heirs of Christ.

Do you see this distinction? I hope you do.

Stephen--.... all unbelieves are the tares [those who do not] .... the tares will be burned just after the Lord's millennial kingdom on the earth [Revelation 20].... the wheat will enter eternity [Revelation 21]

So, What happens to the barley? If you have any questions, Check out the Law of God.

Note: Any Cooks in the House tonight? Let me see. You have some barley in a bowl, add a pinch of salt, and poof....instant wheat. Yeah right!!! Chuckle!

Stephen-->Those "asleep" ... I would suggest that you use a good Bible search engine on "asleep" to find your answer .... Paul describes the dead in Christ as sleeping and who will awake at the Lord's "harpazo" action which is still future .... I would also suggest Daniel 12:2

Well, I did not need a search engine. All I need is my Bible. And, My Bible teaches me We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the Body, and to be present with the Lord. 2 Corinthians 5:8.

Where is the Lord? Sitting at the right hand of God in Heaven. You can only believe this when you walk in faith. Otherwise, You will believe in something else that is contrary to the Bible.

Stephen-->Those Israelites who flee will be tribulation believers along with the 144,000 Israelites who will witness to them .... the 144,000 Israelites wil be the first mortal converts [first fruits of the tribulation period] .... after the church has already been called

Here you go again, Changing the pattern of the Law of God.

Stephen-->Neither of these groupings of believing Israelites will be immortalized by the Lord's "harpazo" action, but they will enter the Lord's millennial kingdom on the earth as mortals

The 144,000 are raptured into Heaven at the midpoint of the Tribulation period. They are shown standing with Jesus in Heaven in Revelation 14:1-5. Matter of fact, They are raptured into Heaven shortly after the death, resurrection, and ascension of the 2 Witnesses of Revelation 11.

I know you do not see this event this way. But, Nonetheless, I will teach you the Law of God. Eventually, The Law of God will change your thinking. Psalm 19:7. Why? God's Word does not come back void. Isaiah 55:11.

God Bless You!

 

[Stephen1]

The Lord left the ancient temple long ago son with no presence residing ... now there is none ..... and there there will not be until He comes to rule His millennial kingdom [Ezekiel 40-48]

Your "law of god" mask does not fool me .... seek the Lord and His prophetic truths

 

[MightyAngel1]

The Lord left the ancient temple long ago son with no presence residing ... now there is none ..... and there there will not be until He comes to rule His millennial kingdom [Ezekiel 40-48]

Howdy Stephen!

You forgot one. The Lord will be active in drawing men and women from all walks of life to Him during the Tribulation period when the Tabernacle of David is rebuilt as God said He would do. See Acts 15:16. Why? See 2 Peter 3:9.

Stephen--Your "law of god" mask does not fool me .... seek the Lord and His prophetic truths

For your information please, The LAW OF GOD is not a mask. The LAW OF GOD is the Standard of Excellence that every Christian should use to interpret God's Holy Word. Sadly, Not Every Christian uses the LAW OF GOD for that purpose.

Instead, They create their own method and place that method of theirs above the LAW OF GOD. Above the Standard the Excellence. Why? They choose to.

And, There will be a Jewish Temple built in Jerusalem specifically for the Tribulation Period. The Law of Moses will come back which is brought back by Elijah the Prophet. To say otherwise is grave error.

Since, You used lower case letters to identify the precious LAW OF GOD, shows me that you have no respect for God's Law. I pray, May God have mercy on your soul when you stand before Him on your Judgment Day.