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ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED? YES and NO!

It should. The Christian message is repent and be saved.

Your message is repent and not be saved.
First off, you got it wrong; it's Repent, call upon the name of Jesus and believe upon Him, then be indwelled with the Holy Spirit, then continue to repent daily (because Jesus says that "if ANYONE says they are without sin, they are a liar and the truth is not in them;" - 1 John 1:8 ) and then "strive for the holiness (sanctification) without which no man will see the Lord." - Hebrews 12:14 and then, in the end, be saved.

And It's not "my" message, it's scriptural
 
First off, you got it wrong; it's Repent, call upon the name of Jesus and believe upon Him, then be indwelled with the Holy Spirit, then continue to repent daily (because Jesus says that "if ANYONE says they are without sin, they are a liar and the truth is not in them;" - 1 John 1:8) and then "strive for the holiness (sanctification) without which no man will see the Lord." - Hebrews 12:14 and in the end, be saved.

And It's not "my" message, it's scriptural

Incorrect.

We cannot believe in a man who walked the earth 2000 years ago being God of the universe. This is a faith given to us Rom 12:3 and only by the Holy Spirit can we call Jesus Lord 1 Cor 12:3.

Our part, is to repent Psalm 51:17. God does the rest.

Hence my statement ''repent and be saved'' is 100% correct.

Repent daily is the heart of a child of God who hates sin. Nobody repents truthfully of sin unless they hate it. Nobody who has truthfully repented will continue in sin without ongoing repentance. This does not equate to the ongoing repentance being necessary for salvation. It is a sign of being a Christian. You are getting the cart before the horse.

As for Heb 12:14 A Christian is by definition holy. It is Jesus that makes us perfect to God Heb 10:14. There is no ''our holiness' is good. As you correctly said earlier, ours is all dirty rags.

As for ''strive for holiness''. Paul is exhorting Christians to go from glory to glory. Not to be..... saved.

Your message of ''repent and not be saved'' is complete heresy. I gave you examples of why, but you refuse to respond to them.
 
One can interpret a verse like this one of two ways.

1. The correct way.

Those who repent sincerely as Psalm 51:17 teaches, will be called / drawn to Him and forgiven.

2. The incorrect way

God chooses a few to call and forgive.

You are espousing the latter, which is outright heresy. You are reading all the verses you are finding with your heretical glasses on.
Psalm 51:17 teaches that the repentant are "called and drawn to Him"? And is being "broken" and "having a contrite heart" the same as repentance?
 
One can interpret a verse like this one of two ways.

1. The correct way.

Those who repent sincerely as Psalm 51:17 teaches, will be called / drawn to Him and forgiven.

2. The incorrect way

God chooses a few to call and forgive.

You are espousing the latter, which is outright heresy. You are reading all the verses you are finding with your heretical glasses on.
Right, this is going nowhere and everyone is an heretic who is in disagreement with you.
Let's just agree, to disagree, you go your way, and I mine.

Amo 3:3 Can two walk together, except they be agreed?

Amo 3:3 Can shnayim walk together, except they be agreed?
OJB.

The answer is obvious. No.

Have a nice day
Johann
 
Psalm 51:17 teaches that the repentant are "called and drawn to Him"? And is being "broken" and "having a contrite heart" the same as repentance?

Yes the repentant are called and drawn. We know this from many scriptures.

Yes, contrite and broken is repentant. Some translations even use repentant.
 
Incorrect.

We cannot believe in a man who walked the earth 2000 years ago being God of the universe. This is a faith given to us Rom 12:3 and only by the Holy Spirit can we call Jesus Lord 1 Cor 12:3.
I'm not disputing the fact that faith is granted to us. We were talking about repentance and now you are switching to faith and where it comes from. And now you're saying we DO need the Holy Spirit to be saved when earlier you said we did not need Him. You also said man is "perfectly capable of repenting on his own"....which is not biblical. Your message is confusing; and your aggressive approach (like sarcasm, condescension, and name-calling, etc) is going to do more harm than good when trying to lead people to Jesus I'm afraid.



As for ''strive for holiness''. Paul is exhorting Christians to go from glory to glory. Not to be..... saved.
Paul absolutely WAS talking about being saved as just a few verses earlier he is talking about believers becoming "illegitimate children" cut off from the inheritance, then in verse 15 he warns about falling short of the grace of God, and further uses Esau as an example of someone given a birthright but then because of his immorality was cut off from the blessing and found no repentance.
You accuse others of "cherry-picking" scripture yet seem to have so little understanding of it yourself. Interesting.
 
God chooses a few to call and forgive.
And the doctrine of election is scriptural.
Believer's Study Bible has the following note explaining that..

Predestination and election have always been the subject of theological inquiry. Several truths about election should be noticed in this passage. Here, as in 1Pe 1:2 (see note), God's foreknowledge logically precedes the elective or predestinative act of God.

Another truth to be affirmed is that the Scriptures present salvation as viewed in two very different spheres. The earthly sphere sees man as totally responsible for his actions and faced with the necessity of choosing either to reject or to accept the atonement of Christ. The heavenly perspective in no sense contradicts the earthly, but it does add a new and infinitely more profound dimension. This new dimension declares that God has an elective purpose and that all which ultimately transpires conforms to His purpose, including the salvation of the elect.

Difficulty arises in man's seemingly unending efforts to reconcile the heavenly insight with the earthly perspective. Wrong answers are not infrequently the result of erroneous questions. Instead of attempting harmonization of those truths which are ultimately understood only by God (Ro 11:34-note), one ought to ask the question,

"Why is the doctrine of election present in the Scripture?"

Four distinct answers emerge from this passage:

(1) As long as the doctrine of election is in the Bible, salvation must be the gift of God alone. Predestination framed in God's foreknowledge assures us that salvation is from start to finish the work of God.

(2) The doctrine of God's elective purpose guarantees the perpetuity of salvation. Unthinkable is the idea that one of God's elect could forfeit his salvation. Those whom He has justified He will glorify. So certain is that sequence that "glorified" is an aorist tense in Greek, meaning that glorification is already a settled issue in the mind of God (Ro 8:30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39). How could God lose one of His elect?

(3) The doctrine of election assures a peculiar providence which attends the way of every believer. If God's heart is set on us in His elective purpose, we may be sure of His concern and providential intervention in our behalf (Ro 8:28).

(4) Finally, that same personal providence bound up in election extends throughout the entire course of history. There is no runaway world. God's hand is systematically guiding the age to its intended consummation (Ro 8:21, 22). (MacDonald, W & Farstad, A. Believer's Bible Commentary: Thomas Nelson)

Wuest commenting on proorizo writes that " The genius of the word is that of placing limitations upon someone or something beforehand, these limitations bringing that person or thing within the sphere of a certain future or destiny. These meanings are carried over into the New Testament usage of the word. Thus, the “chosen-out” ones, have had limitations put around them which bring them within the sphere of becoming God’s children by adoption (Eph 1:5-note), and of being conformed to the image of the Lord Jesus (Ro 8:29).

Someone explained predestination with this simple picture. When we came to Christ, it was like walking through a gate. On the outside were inscribed these words: "Whosoever will, may come." Once we passed through the gate into the Saviour's arms, we could look back and see these words inscribed on the inside: "Chosen from the foundation of the world." We can praise Him for His sovereign and saving grace.

Jesus Himself taught that…

He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the judgment, that the light is come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light; for their deeds were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the light, and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But he who practices the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God. (John 3:18-21).

Predestination and calling - “Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called.” Romans 8:30 The testimony of sense may be false, but the testimony of the Spirit must be true. We have the witness of the Spirit within, bearing witness with our spirits that we are born of God. There is such a thing on earth as an infallible assurance of our election. Let a man once get that, and it will anoint his head with fresh oil, it will clothe him with the white garment of praise, and put the song of the angel into his mouth. Happy, happy man, who is fully assured of his interest in the covenant of grace, in the blood of atonement, and in the glories of heaven! Such men there are here this very day. Let them “rejoice in the Lord alway, and again I say rejoice.” What would some of you give if you could arrive at this assurance? Mark, if you anxiously desire to know, you may know. If your heart pants to read its title clear it shall do so before long. No man ever desired Christ in his heart with a living and longing desire, who did not find him sooner or later. If you have a desire, God has given it to you. If you pant, and cry, and groan after Christ, even this is his gift; bless him for it. Thank him for little grace, and ask him for great grace. He has given you hope, ask for faith; and when he gives you faith, ask for assurance; and when you get assurance, ask for full assurance; and when you have obtained full assurance, ask for enjoyment; and when you have enjoyment, ask for glory itself; and he shall surely give it to you in his own appointed season.
Like Him

Whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son. — Romans 8:29

Today's Scripture: Romans 8:28-39

God is not interested in just saving us from hell and taking us to heaven. He wants to conform us “to the image of His Son” (Romans 8:29). Someone has said that the Father was so pleased with His Son that He has determined to fill all of heaven with others just like Him.

When Jesus returns, “we shall be like Him” (1 John 3:2), but the process of becoming like Him begins here and now. How does that happen? It is explained by the “all things” of “all things work together for good to those who love God” (Romans 8:28). This includes testings and trials, chastenings and purifications, denials and suffering. To become like Him, we must follow Him, and that is the path of sacrifice and trial (Hebrews 2:10).

Following Jesus means we must be willing to go with Him to the Garden of Gethsemane and the hill of Calvary. We must be willing to endure suffering and rejection by those who reject Him (John 15:18-21). But following Him also leads us to the empty tomb and the place at the right hand of God. The apostle Paul said that those who follow Him will also share in His resurrection (Romans 6:5). And “if we endure, we shall also reign with Him” (2 Timothy 2:12).

Yes, God uses “all things” to make us like Christ. By: M.R. DeHaan

If you walk every day with the Savior,
Use His Word as your unfailing guide,
Then you surely will grow to be like Him,
And with Him you'll forever abide.
—Hess

The road to Christlikeness will take you through the valley of suffering.

I keep on giving you one link that is absolutely scriptural, and you may learn from to help you think critically and analytically, to compare spiritual with spiritual, to help develop your discernment in the sphere of the Holy Spirit, but all you do is "drive away" those who want to draw near to you.

Have it your way friend.
Please allow the other members to give their input in an amicable dialogue.
Johann
 
Yes the repentant are called and drawn. We know this from many scriptures.
But you are using Psalm 51:17 to defend your statement and to say something that it's not actually saying. This is mishandling of scripture. Can't you see that?
Yes, contrite and broken is repentant. Some translations even use repentant.
How many translations? I looked it up....only a few, like the NLT, none of which are literal translations, and none of which I put a great deal of stock in when attempting to dig deeper into original context.
 
How and when we are going to be judged to determine our place in eternity does matter….to me anyway.
Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.


Pretty self explanatory.
Shalom
Johann
 
Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.


Pretty self explanatory.
Shalom
Johann
So therefore, for one to claim that they have already appeared before God in this life to face judgement.....and (for a born-again believer) to have been saved or spared from the eternal repercussions of sin, would be a false claim, no?
 
So therefore, for one to claim that they have already appeared before God in this life to face judgement.....and (for a born-again believer) to have been saved or spared from the eternal repercussions of sin, would be a false claim, no?
Yes
 
But you are using Psalm 51:17 to defend your statement and to say something that it's not actually saying. This is mishandling of scripture. Can't you see that?
How many translations? I looked it up....only a few, like the NLT, none of which are literal translations, and none of which I put a great deal of stock in when attempting to dig deeper into original context.

See post 231 here What is hell?

I am getting tired of explaining Christianity 101.
 
See post 231 here What is hell?

I am getting tired of explaining Christianity 101.
Just a thought: If you are getting tired of having to explain “Christianity 101” so often… Perhaps you should consider that you may not be explaining it so well. Perhaps you should also consider that there is some room for you to expand your own understanding of Christianity….and of salvation…..and of God‘s Word.
Have a blessed day My friend!
 
Just a thought: If you are getting tired of having to explain “Christianity 101” so often… Perhaps you should consider that you may not be explaining it so well. Perhaps you should also consider that there is some room for you to expand your own understanding of Christianity….and of salvation…..and of God‘s Word.
Have a blessed day My friend!

I have not been here for a just over a year. I come back and have typed some 200 posts to a few of you about wicked error you are teaching.

I think the frustration is that I am repeating myself on multiple threads.

All summarized here False teaching, happy to chat further there if you want.
 
I have not been here for a just over a year. I come back and have typed some 200 posts to a few of you about wicked error you are teaching.

I think the frustration is that I am repeating myself on multiple threads.

All summarized here False teaching, happy to chat further there if you want.
With all sincerity friend, have you considered that it could simply be your approach? I mean, go back to post #2 in this thread. You were the first to respond to someone else’s OP and your tone was immediately so critical, condescending, and accusatory. The OP actually seems to agree with your position on OSAS….but in your apparent drive to rebuke and criticize, you simply accused him of “spamming” without reading the link he posted.
If you choose start out your interactions with such an abrasive, aggressive approach….how do you expect others to respond?
 
With all sincerity friend, have you considered that it could simply be your approach? I mean, go back to post #2 in this thread. You were the first to respond to someone else’s OP and your tone was immediately so critical, condescending, and accusatory. The OP actually seems to agree with your position on OSAS….but in your apparent drive to rebuke and criticize, you simply accused him of “spamming” without reading the link he posted.
If you choose start out your interactions with such an abrasive, aggressive approach….how do you expect others to respond?

I am impatient with false teaching.

The title said OSAS ''yes and no''. :sweat:
 
I am impatient with false teaching.

The title said OSAS ''yes and no''. :sweat:
I can understand that and totally relate. As a public school teacher of HS and Jr College students, my patience is tested daily! But I do strive each day to be more patient with others (even those who are completely wrong - its called grace).....I fail many days, but I do keep trying.
Patience is a fruit of the Holy Spirit, as are peace, kindness, and self-control. If we say we are born-again believers and have the Holy Spirit living in us, guiding us....then we should be yielding to Him and doing our best to bear good fruit. I'm not saying this to rebuke you friend, it's a daily reminder for me as well.....for any and all born-again believers in fact. I have to check myself daily to see if my words, actions, thoughts.....or even my entire approach to others, is bearing fruits of the Holy Spirit. Only by yielding to the Holy Spirit am I able to accomplish that......and that must become a daily practice for any Christian I believe.
Hope you have a good day my friend....filled with blessings and abundance!
 
OSAS is and always has been ‘False doctrine’

Those who claim that a person is once saved always saved fail to take the most important message in The Word of God. ‘ALL Scripture of God breathed’

ALL Scripture is given us by the Holy Spirit, through the prophets, through Jesus and through the apostles. No cherry picking verses, ALL Scripture is Gods breathed, every word, every sentence, every paragraph, every chapter, every book and letter, all testaments.

John 15

If a person fails to accept Jesus’ words, that God, who grafts us into the vine can also graft us out, then they are not accepting God’s Word, they are choosing what they have been taught or, are choosing to believe some words and verses over others. Not recommended.

Shalom
 
***Perhaps it might be more useful for many to consider what 'saved' actually is and to find reference in the Scripture to better understand His promise, His Word?

However, no matter what we think is correct, it is of little to no use to us if we do not charitably love one another and allow those things He has given, to be pushed aside for carnal thinking towards each other.

I write this for all.

Jesus said, Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do... as He gave His life for us as we were yet sinners. Why then do we too often find ourselves in disputing and taking offense at what another shares? What have we received that we have not from the hand of the Lord... therefore show kindness, even as you Father in Heaven has been kind to you.


Grace and Peace
Jesus is Lord


Bless you all ....><>

ephesians-4-32-2.jpg
 
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