Originally Posted by MrsMree
Rizen, gdemoss;
Do you think I'm wrong to say there is a huge difference between submission, which is a voluntary laying down of yourself and your great worth for the sake of your God...
And what mackem is describing which is living in fear?
MrsMree, I appreciate your sincere desire to help your sister out of love. I am going to address your points but am going to do so as if I am addressing them to Mackem and you, as it is her thread. When I read what you asked, I think about those words 'your great worth' and then about our great Savior who is the only one who is worthy. We truly are only worthy when we are like him. My problem before coming to know Jesus was partially due to overvaluing myself (pride). If we do that we are living in sin. The opposite being seeing ourselves as worthless which is also bad (pride in reverse). What we ought to work toward is seeing ourselves for who God created us to be and that is servants. Created to serve God and one another in love. Nobody being any better or worse than anyone else. An equality in worth.
I believe that she COULD submit to her husband. But I believe that before that happens she needs to have the confidence and self value to say that if it wasn't for God's command and her love for her God she would never need to accept less than china cup treatment.
What you say teaches me about you. How you see things. If I am going to be able to help others I must first understand where they are in their walk with Jesus. Our words we speak let others know just that. You are absolutely right that she needs confidence to be able to submit to her husband correctly. I also agree that she has to have a proper value of self, but as I spoke of it above.
I am worried about encouraging submission when it seems the issue is he is making her into a doormat. It sounds abusive.
Yes, he sounds like an abusive man. I used to be just like him but then Jesus came into my life. I am going to address the abuse and how we should encourage her to handle it later.
I am not saying leave or any such nonsense, but I would seek a Christian counsellor mackem to talk through your own perception of yourself, your husband and your marriage.
I agree with you here as God has clearly stated in his word that there is to be no divorce among Christians. If she were to depart it must be with the understanding that she will remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband. As far as a counsellor goes, this kind of counselling would probably best be done by one of the elder women of the church who truly loves the Lord and understands his ways since the scriptures teach that the elder are to teach the younger how to love their husbands.
Now for the difficult part. Addressing how God expects us to handle abuse. I just so happen to be reading 1 Peter today and was in chapter 2. Lets take a look:
18 Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear; not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward. 19 For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully. 20 For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God. 21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps.
This speaks of domestic servants who live in the same household with their masters. They are to be in submission to them in fear. This word for fear is means to have a reverence for one like as we have for God. Note that they are told to be this way with the 'froward'. The froward are the exact opposite of the good an gentle. It is an example of suffering wrongfully because to do otherwise would be to sin. If a servant were to rise up against his master and usurp his authority he would be no better than the abusive master. As we continue to read we see Peter reference being 'buffeted' for faults vrs when one does well. Buffeted means to be struck with the fist. Peter said to be struck with a fist when you have done no wrong and take it patiently is acceptable with God. He completes the thought by saying we were called to suffer in this way just as Christ did.
Gods word did not paint a pretty picture of hope for the servant who has an evil master. The servants hope is only in Christ and the Resurrection of the just. When sinful men dominate other human beings the result is horrific but it happens and is allowed by God just the same.
But what does all of this have to do with a wife and her husband? The answer is found immediately after this text in Chapter 3 verse 1.
1 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands;
Likewise or in this same manner the wife is to subject herself to her husband. She is to take the abuse just as the servant who did not deserve to be struck with his masters fist or as Christ who was struck with fists and worse yet and took it patiently.
Now lets talk about the real value of people. How valuable is Jesus Christ? He ceased being in the form of God permanently to become a man so that he could live his life in complete subjection to God the Father and give his own life a ransom for many, rescuing a lost and dying human race. He valued people. While we were yet sinners Christ died for the ungodly. Lets look at the rest of 1 Pe 3:1.
1 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;
Why does our wife here take the abuse and live a godly life reverencing an ungodly husband in submission to him? It is out of love for the ungodly man who is treating her so badly. She is being like Christ. It is so that he may see her faith of Christ in action and be won over without her ever having to speak a word to him about it. She is a missionary in her own home.
My heart is with you Mackem. We all have our own roads to travel while we journey home to be with Christ. But if we truly believe we receive at the end of our faith the salvation of our souls and glory with Christ forever in perfect bliss, then we can persevere like Moses who did it as if seeing him who is invisible.
I love you in Christ Mackem, if I can assist you in anyway please feel free to come to me.
Gary