Pretrib Poll

[lentz]

Do you think there will be a rapture of the Church before Tribulation?

 

[Hekuran]

Impossible. Tribulation was already happening when John received the visions of the book of revelation. Revelation 1:9

 

[B-A-C]

Tribulation was already happening when John received the visions of the book of revelation

Not on a worldwide scale. Really just one city. Not for 7 years, really just 5 months or so.

 

[B-A-C]

Do you think there will be a rapture of the Church before Tribulation?

The Bible doesn't say so anywhere, in fact it says "after" the tribulation.

Matt 24:29; "But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Matt 24:30; "And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.
Matt 24:31; "And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.


Mark 13:24; "But in those days, after that tribulation, THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT,
Mark 13:25; AND THE STARS WILL BE FALLING from heaven, and the powers that are in the heavens will be shaken.
Mark 13:26; "Then they will see THE SON OF MAN COMING IN CLOUDS with great power and glory.
Mark 13:27; "And then He will send forth the angels, and will gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest end of the earth to the farthest end of heaven.

But nowhere does it says "before the tribulation".

 

[Waggles]

Do you think there will be a rapture of the Church before Tribulation?

NO
What is "the church" ??
2 why would God beam up the elect before the worldwide tribulation of the last days ??

 

[PloughBoy]

of c

Do you think there will be a rapture of the Church before Tribulation?

This is one of the reason why, The Rapture is "Imperative" is like a Wedding feast, A CORONATION ceremony A Crowning for 7year earth years but it seems like 7,000 years while we are in Heaven for Our ceremony. "With God all things are Possible"
It is all revealed in the Old Testament "Type and shadows" what will be. but unveiled in "Christ" "types and Shadows" "type and shadows"

And GOD sat a RainBow in The Sky
Rapture of Course
Of course, although many do not know why. now let me count the ways.

1. How are we going to get to Heaven, Jesus is the way and he is supposed to come back and get us and take us there,
2. we must appear before "The Bema Seat" which is there.
3. we must received our rewards there'
4, We must receive our Full Adoption and Be declared as Rightful Sons and receive our "Full Shared Inheritance" to everything GOD the Has>
5. TheN The Ceremony Dinner at The Table of GODs as The Family of GOD.
6. and listen To Our Tell us want every thing was About of All Creation, his Speech and Toast!
7. And he will every one there Orders in coming back to Earth and Take Our Shared Part of our inheritance the earth, and what we will do in the New restore earth and How the armies of Heaven will do for the 1000 year reign and then the end, And what will take place in The Great White Throne Judgement in which we will Judge the Whole World and Angels and he will cast those phonemes are not written down in The Book of Life.
8. h=he will tell us about the New earth and the new heaven that he has prepared in another sphere which is "ETERNITY" and we all will be together.
9. Oh yea I forgot about Our White horses, he is going to give each one of His Adopted Sons. and they will be ours one horse through all Eternity
10. Now for the rest of All he has to tell us we have to wait until we get to heaven.

And all the creatures that live in heaven and all the angels of God will be there, And they will be amaze of What had "THE FATHER" had done in the making of us "IN JESUS CHRIST" and Jesus himself will Be Amazed WHAT His FATHER has did in making us and present us to His SON as A GIFT!

LORD have mercy if only many knew what is about to happen and why was it done. "LORD who has believe Our report and who have the "ARM" of The LORD" been revealed"

if only eyes could reveal what eyes cannot, could not declare what cannot been seen but it is fully aware, what cannot be seen.

 

[lentz]

NO
What is "the church" ??
2 why would God beam up the elect before the worldwide tribulation of the last days ??

Why would God make his redeemed to suffer? Will he raise up the apostles and martyrs to suffer as well?

 

[B-A-C]

Why would God make his redeemed to suffer?

I could give you a dozen verses about why God lets people suffer. Job chapters 1 and 2 for example.
But personally I believe, just because we will be around during the tribulation, doesn't mean we have to suffer through it, for example...

Rev 9:2; He opened the bottomless pit, and smoke went up out of the pit, like the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by the smoke of the pit.
Rev 9:3; Then out of the smoke came locusts upon the earth, and power was given them, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
Rev 9:4; They were told not to hurt the grass of the earth, nor any green thing, nor any tree, but only the men who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads.
Rev 9:5; And they were not permitted to kill anyone, but to torment for five months; and their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it stings a man.

If you have the seal of God on you, you will be protected from at least some of the plagues.

 

[Waggles]

Why would God make his redeemed to suffer?

1 Will the elect suffer as worldly peoples shall??
Divine protection [Psalm 91, etc] will be a beacon to those perishing and seeking salvation.
2 God will separate the chaff from the wheat in the body of Christ.

 

[lentz]

1 Will the elect suffer as worldly peoples shall??
Divine protection [Psalm 91, etc] will be a beacon to those perishing and seeking salvation.
2 God will separate the chaff from the wheat in the body of Christ.

Tribulation will be hell on everyone on the planet. Stay if you want

 

[Waggles]

Stay if you want

There is no escape other than the protective mantle of the Holy Spirit.

 

[lentz]

There is no escape other than the protective mantle of the Holy Spirit.

Not according to scripture.
Question: Who will recieve crowns and white robes?

 

[PloughBoy]

Not on a worldwide scale. Really just one city. Not for 7 years, really just 5 months or so.

there is difference in languages the English language is not The Language of the Biblical text of Holy Scripture there is no such thing as a word for word translation for the biblical "Original Copied Manuscript"

There is "tribulation" and "tribulations"Then there is " in great Tribulation", provide in the "English language" we must listen to the text speak to us and do read with a form of "Eisegesis" and just by looking a biblical related word a person has the meaning , Most biblical words and terminology takes years t understand what it means even though you got the definition from a dictionary, just because we look up a word and get the definition of that Biblical word does not mean we understand the definition, The definition of A Biblical Truth Must Come By "Revelation" Even Of A Dictionary Explanation. We Wait On The Revelation, It May Take Years Before God The Father RevealS The Definition In His Own Time. AND it might just be that one word within the text and not the revelation meaning of the paragraph that is in question or address. the 1st thing we learn as young students of the book you do not speculate, when you do not know you say you do not know. "train a child in way it should go and when that child is old he will not depart from it"

[Train a person to speculate and he will not depart from speculations, and he will deem himself right]
there is a different when reading the text in detail.
New Heart English Bible
for then there will be great oppression, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, nor ever will be.

Webster's Bible Translation
For then shall be great tribulation, such as hath not been since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Weymouth New Testament
for it will be a time of great suffering, such as never has been from the beginning of the world till now, and assuredly never will be again.

World English Bible
for then there will be great suffering, Such As Has Not Been From The Beginning Of The World Until Now, No, Nor Ever Will Be.

A person just cannot, use the single word tribulation and throw it around as one pleases, and not relate to the body in which it was presented in.

 

[B-A-C]

Question: Who will recieve crowns and white robes?

Two different questions, with two different answers. I will start with the white robes.

Rev 7:9; After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands;
Rev 7:10; and they cry out with a loud voice, saying, "Salvation to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb."
Rev 7:11; And all the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures; and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God,
Rev 7:12; saying, "Amen, blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and might, be to our God forever and ever. Amen."
Rev 7:13; Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?"
Rev 7:14; I said to him, "My lord, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

 

[B-A-C]

There are at least 3 different crowns given to believers in the New testament.

2Tim 4:8; in the future there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day; and not only to me, but also to all who have loved His appearing.

Jas 1:12; Blessed is a man who perseveres under trial; for once he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.

1Pet 5:4; And when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the unfading crown of glory.

Rev 2:10; 'Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to cast some of you into prison, so that you will be tested, and you will have tribulation for ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.

 

[lentz]

Two different questions, with two different answers. I will start with the white robes.

Rev 7:9; After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands;
Rev 7:10; and they cry out with a loud voice, saying, "Salvation to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb."
Rev 7:11; And all the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures; and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God,
Rev 7:12; saying, "Amen, blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and might, be to our God forever and ever. Amen."
Rev 7:13; Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?"
Rev 7:14; I said to him, "My lord, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

The 24 elders are the representation of the church raptured i chapter 4 and 5
7:14 are those saved during tribulation

 

[lentz]

There are at least 3 different crowns given to believers in the New testament.

2Tim 4:8; in the future there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day; and not only to me, but also to all who have loved His appearing.

Jas 1:12; Blessed is a man who perseveres under trial; for once he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.

1Pet 5:4; And when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the unfading crown of glory.

Rev 2:10; 'Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to cast some of you into prison, so that you will be tested, and you will have tribulation for ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.

All 3 are the same crown
The ones the 24 elders,the church,cast at Christs feet in i belirve Revelation 5

 

[PloughBoy]

There is no escape other than the protective mantle of the Holy Spirit.

there will not be a "Holy Ghost" down here when that storm come, even Jesus said: I got to go back, if do not go back the Holy Ghost is not coming down here! not down here! The Holy Ghost: I ain't going! And I know when that storm start blowing here "Holy Ghost" is Not going to be here, sorry y'all are on your own!
Blesseth is He In the 1st. resurrection! in more ways than 1 !

NASB 1977
“But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper shall not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.

Legacy Standard Bible
But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.

Amplified Bible
But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper (Comforter, Advocate, Intercessor—Counselor, Strengthener, Standby) will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him (the Holy Spirit) to you [to be in close fellowship with you].

Christian Standard Bible
Nevertheless, I am telling you the truth. It is for your benefit that I go away, because if I don’t go away the Counselor will not come to you. If I go, I will send
him to you.

If They Think The Comforter Is Going Be Down Here When All Hell Cut Loose! They Are Going To be on There Own.

The Holy Ghost will be in the Rapture too!

 

[Hekuran]

Not on a worldwide scale. Really just one city. Not for 7 years, really just 5 months or so.

Take a quick look at a newspaper or a history book. The church has been going through tribulation for 2,000 years.

 

[lentz]

there will not be a "Holy Ghost" down here when that storm come, even Jesus said: I got to go back, if do not go back the Holy Ghost is not coming down here! not down here! The Holy Ghost: I ain't going! And I know when that storm start blowing here "Holy Ghost" is Not going to be here, sorry y'all are on your own!
Blesseth is He In the 1st. resurrection! in more ways than 1 !

NASB 1977
“But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper shall not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.

Legacy Standard Bible
But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.

Amplified Bible
But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper (Comforter, Advocate, Intercessor—Counselor, Strengthener, Standby) will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him (the Holy Spirit) to you [to be in close fellowship with you].

Christian Standard Bible
Nevertheless, I am telling you the truth. It is for your benefit that I go away, because if I don’t go away the Counselor will not come to you. If I go, I will send
him to you.

If They Think The Comforter Is Going Be Down Here When All Hell Cut Loose! They Are Going To be on There Own.

The Holy Ghost will be in the Rapture too!

Very very true. Thessalonians says he who letteth will let until he be taken out of the way. That would be the Spirit. Jesus said he would never leave nor forsake us. So when Spirit goes......I go